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Does any religion matter at all today?

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Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Stox 16 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:35 am

First topic message reminder :

I will be interested to read peoples thoughts on this question. Does any Religion matter at all today?

I cannot see that any religious church's or anything religious even matters today at all. The only true religion I have ever come across is, Money, Political Power, Land, and greed. all the things we are told they are against, this goes for all religions too in my view.

in fact all the faiths I have come across use all of the tools of money, political power, Land and greed to re-force there religious views on there followers. i have never come across any religion that does not use at least one of this tools to enforce there religious views on the people they are said to be looking after.

I have read over the years all the religious books i can find, and have yet too be moved by any of them. some have very good stories that have something in them for every reader. but their it ends for me. maybe someone can explain why any of this is so important today? as i cannot find anything within the books that states this is very important today or in the past. I myself have come to believe that religion has more to do with the thought of death or dying and the human need to believe that life goes on after death.

However, when we was all born we did not feel pain or come into being with some religious thought in our heads or a book in our hands did we? in fact we had know idea about religion at all? so only find out what religion we are when someone tells us that this is our religion? yet you would think we would all know this already if there was a god? So we only find out what our religion is after birth? or do you believe you know what you religion was before birth? (i did not) if someone told me i was a follower of Islam, I would of said OK at five years old. in fact they could of given me any religion and i would of said fine.

So religion seems to me, religion only matters a get deal more the older you get? so I am told, well if so its failing on me badly. so anyway, it matter more as you get closer to death then? so is this more to do with our human need for life to go on somehow? as we find it hard to believe that life comes to an end and we go into darkness of no mans land? just like before we was born?

I was told at about 6 years old by my mother that this was my faith. but in total truth my mother could of said any faith was my religion and i would of gone along with what she said. To me that was it, Its that simple then. i did not then think about anything religious till i was in the Army in standing in a street in the middle of green line in a war zone in the Lebanon. with both Christains killing, Muslims Killing, Catholic Maronite's Killing, Druze faith Killing, Jewish killing. at first wondering why they was all doing this? not for religion or faith but power and using religion to justify there actions. I remember thinking. just suppose these people had been given a different religion by there mothers. they would instead of killing as a Maronite gunman they would of been killing Maronite's as a Druze gunman?

So your religion is picked for you in my view and some even change it too. yet you would think if you know your god at your death. you should know who you god is before birth? but we do not. So does any of this really matter any more?

well i well be interrested to read your thought on this. its not about any one religion but all of them.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:17 pm

Jesus claimed he came to fulfil the law....except for the 5th commandment " honour thy father and mother, he wasn't too big on family values.

Matthew 10.

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

Oh dear.





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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:02 pm

[quote="Tosh"]
Dunno wot you're on about mate,

Its very simple sage my dear, agnosticism is about uncertainty, and arrogance is about certainty, therefore your opinion that agnostics are arrogant is .................wait for it..................wait for it.

UTTER UTTER GOBBLEDEGOOK.

To describe onself as either agnostic or atheist requires a conscious decision to deviate from routine acceptance of the majority view. As such it's frequently just another manifestation of arrogance..[/quote]


Stick to famous quotes, turkey.

The arrogance stems from an obvious decision to be "different" from the majority. In your case its a desperate determination to be considered "Special". Your Mum might have had the only other matching opinion.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:46 pm


The arrogance stems from an obvious decision to be "different" from the majority.In your case its a desperate determination to be considered "Special".

Keep digging this hole, I am enjoying it.

So according to our resident sage, an agnostic OBVIOUSLY decides to be uncertain to feel different, uncertain thinking is arrogance, and arrogance is certainty.

Your premise now reads, uncertain thinking is an OBVIOUS example of certain thinking, well if nothing else it is different and it does identify you as " special" in a way.

What a load of drivel, next time just put your hand up when you are wrong, I can seriously humiliate pretensious posters.



Your Mum might have had the only other matching opinion..[/

My Mum thinks differently than me, which makes her arrogant, uncertain, agnostic, certain and special. Very Happy

Have I got you hooked sucker or what ?

Where has Mr Cool gone...LMAO.

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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by snowyflake on Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:23 pm

Trolls aren't real, OW....do we gotta learn you everythang? Smile
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by snowyflake on Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:28 pm

The arrogance stems from an obvious decision to be "different" from the majority.

Is it arrogant to study the evidence and make a conscious decision based on that evidence? Wouldn't it be arrogant to ignore evidence and go with the majority of public opinion? Some might even call that stupid. How much reality TV do you really watch?
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:42 pm

God! They're multiplying like amoeba.

I can seriously humiliate pretensious posters. .... but have difficulty in spelling words like pretentious. (sigh)





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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:14 am

I can seriously humiliate pretensious posters. .... but have difficulty in spelling words like pretentious. (sigh)


Now I know I have you by the short and curlies, the spelling policeman is the white flag of surrender.

* Epic fail turkey *
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:57 am

Does any religion matter at all today?

Humans must learn to think rationally, relgion is an obstacle to rationality, building cultures around irrational concepts cannot be advantageous to our well being.

We are social mammals who need each other and need a safe and secure environment to evolve, our well being is dependant on the environment we create. It is irrational to create an environment where the greatest suffering is inflicted on the greatest number of people, therefore it is rational to create an environment where the least suffering is inflicted on the greatest number of people.

Human evolution is the pursuit of emotional well being, it is the evolution of our minds and this evolution must be based on rationality.

Secularism-humanism-atheism will combine to make a universal code of conduct, a religon based on rationality and humility not voodoo and fear.

Vote Atheism, vote now.



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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:39 pm

Yes, the 'Spelling Policeman' is SUCH a nuisance.

Especially to those whose spelling is found wanting, but who wish the inconvenient fact not to be pointed out, lest it undermines their self-appointed 'Superstar' status.

Still - better for the attention-seeker to be noticed for being a tedious know-all than not being noticed at all , I guess... Very Happy

( One lives in hope that the inevitable upcoming response is a tad more original than hitherto... Shocked )

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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:18 pm

Especially to those whose spelling is found wanting, but who wish the inconvenient fact not to be pointed out, lest it undermines their self-appointed 'Superstar' status.

Phil....Phil baby, one spelling error does not undermine my genius status( sigh), but your inability to think in proportion undermines your opinions.

I cruised through " A " grade English and Latin with the highest grade, courtesy of a boarding school education, get real.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:26 pm

I can smell pseudo intellectuals a mile off, they love to use archaic words like " hitherto" and " lest ", a very amusing trait much used by cloth cap working class socialists trying too hard.





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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:28 pm

Anytime you wish to debate thread content my friends, I am all ears.

Please remember I am not God. Basketball
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by astradt1 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:28 pm

I always seems such a pity when discussions fall back on name calling and putting down of the poster rather than just responding to the poster's opinion...
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:34 pm

I always seems such a pity when discussions fall back on name calling and putting down of the poster rather than just responding to the poster's opinion... .

I am as comfortable debatng content as I am at trolling, its a win-win position pour moi, unlike my opponents there is no Royal " we " in my armoury, just little old me me me.

Send in the clowns. cheers
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:19 pm

Brave efforts at self-justification, but, as Blackadder would say : " It started badly; got worse; and the least said about the ending, the better..." Very Happy
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:54 pm

Brave efforts at self-justification, but, as Blackadder would say : " It started badly; got worse; and the least said about the ending, the better..."

A cabbage is not a stapler, not even in your irrational mind.

Keep plugging away cupcake, one day you may even get lucky, but I doubt it.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:59 pm

Meanwhile, yet another audience is captivated by Tosh's latest lecture entitled : ' How I came to know everything...'

(johnlund.com)

cheers
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:03 pm

I seem to be holding your full attention sweetie.


lolol.

cheers
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:06 pm

Just passing the time while you check your dictionary for those all-important spellings.... Very Happy
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:09 pm

Just passing the time while you check your dictionary for those all-important spellings.... .

I leave that to anoraks like you, or are they called " bloggers " now.





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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:11 pm

[quote="Tosh"]I seem to be holding your full attention sweetie.


....and clearly I, yours...! Very Happy
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:39 pm



Candidate for a Pullet Surprise
by Mark Eckman and Jerrold H. Zar

I have a spelling checker,
It came with my PC.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks aye can knot sea.

Eye ran this poem threw it,
Your sure reel glad two no.
Its vary polished in it's weigh.
My checker tolled me sew.

A checker is a bless sing,
It freeze yew lodes of thyme.
It helps me right awl stiles two reed,
And aides me when eye rime.

Each frays come posed up on my screen
Eye trussed too bee a joule.
The checker pours o'er every word
To cheque sum spelling rule.

Bee fore a veiling checker's
Hour spelling mite decline,
And if we're lacks oar have a laps,
We wood bee maid too wine.

Butt now bee cause my spelling
Is checked with such grate flare,
Their are know fault's with in my cite,
Of nun eye am a wear.

Now spelling does knot phase me,
It does knot bring a tier.
My pay purrs awl due glad den
With wrapped word's fare as hear.

To rite with care is quite a feet
Of witch won should bee proud,
And wee mussed dew the best wee can,
Sew flaw's are knot aloud.

Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays
Such soft wear four pea seas,
And why eye brake in two averse
Buy righting want too pleas.




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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Shirina on Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:11 pm

My pay purrs
Your salary consists of cats?
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:19 pm

English as she is spoke, Shirina. The purr purse is to explain. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by polyglide on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:26 am

Doo hit mater hat al iif u spell fings rong has lonng has u understand.
wat his ment.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:09 pm

The silly poem was presumably intended to show exactly what confusion does arise from idiosyncratic forms of spelling, which slow communication.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:02 pm

and clearly I, yours...!

Au contraire my friend, my attention is focused on the thread topic, whereas you only have eyes pour moi.

Very sweet.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:13 pm

The silly poem was presumably intended to show exactly what confusion does arise from idiosyncratic forms of spelling, which slow communication. .

Rationality is all about proportion, your over-reactions to my one spelling error go way beyond irrationality into the realms of utter desperation.

Are you salivating excessively by any chance ? Very Happy

If you spent as much time and effort debating my views as you do discussing my style and presentation, you would lose just as badly. Very Happy
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:13 pm

one spelling error

If only!

But who's counting, anyway?
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:09 pm

But who's counting, anyway?.

Why do I feel you are the type to have a spread sheet ?

lolol.

Look my friend, if it will restore some of your self esteem I will pretend my spelling is not as good as yours, I can't be much fairer than that.

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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:05 pm

Quite so. As someone famous once said, "If I say, I am lying, and in so saying, tell the truth - is that a lie or the truth?"
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:14 pm

Quite so. As someone famous once said, "If I say, I am lying, and in so saying, tell the truth - is that a lie or the truth?".

You do like to quote famous sayings, it may be a syndrome, let me get back to you with my thesis.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:18 pm

Please don't trouble yourself on my account. But just for curiosity, did you get the Ph.D. ?
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:34 am

But just for curiosity, did you get the Ph.D. ?.

A few more posts from you and its in the bag.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:02 pm

Promises! Promises!
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by methought on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:35 pm

There exist records of events in China written in Cantonese which, according to one smart friend that is fluent in Cantonese, document the existence of Christians and Christianity as early as the 1st Century AD in parts of China. Did some apostle make a “Marco Polo” journey circa 40 or 50 AD? I don’t know; I do know that the records exist.

Hi RoB
I can't say this surprises me too much.

Just for the record the Romans moved into the Greek Empire when there was no-one at the helm, and took over a vast tract of land from East Africa to China, where the Greeks had syncretised many different religions, and identified what works at the heart of all of them.

This wisdom was written somewhat cryptically by a Greek in the Emerald Tablets of Thoth the Atlantean, which pretended to be Egyptian, but which has only probably been fully understood by Sri Aurobindo, who linked it to Buddhist principles.

Anyway that vast area was without national boundaries because Alexander had made it all Greek, had established libraries and debating forums, and brought people from all quarters of this known world to Alexandria, where the magnificent library contained knowledge and wisdom, from across the Empire, which was irreplaceable when it was destroyed.

Socrates, Plato and Aristotle all studied for a time in India and brought back philosophical ideas, which in Israel came up against Judaism. Jesus may have gone to India and learned the ways of the saints there, or he may just have learned from the Greek Essene ideologies.

Interesting, though, RoB. Thanks for sharing that little gem.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:42 pm

This discussion has not often touched upon the matter of Christianity as a source of political power, but the briefest examination of European History shows how Royal and political influence has been firmly based upon adherence to Christian belief. Until now. Does that perhaps go towards an explanation of the current malaise affecting European affairs?
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by polyglide on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:20 am

Snowflake, you should warn the fairies that fornication is not acceptable, not at the bottom of your garden nor anywhere else.

I can assure you I have enjoyed a far better life than the vast majority of people and enjoyed all that God has given us rather than spend my time taking drugs and getting stoned out of my mind and pretending that we all came about by some obscure event that has no credibility whatsoever.

Science is 99% supposition and that that can be actually proven does not substanciate the evolution theory, theory being the operative word.

No one understands the full extent of the abilities of the brain and there is no possible way in which to explain how it was originated other than an intelligent source being involved.

You can work out to a certain extent what the activities of the brain involve but that does not in any way prove how they were created, created being the operative word.

You would enjoy far more of life if you enveloped the things God gave us and this enhances life rather than the oposite.

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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:26 pm

This discussion has not often touched upon the matter of Christianity as a source of political power, but the briefest examination of European History shows how Royal and political influence has been firmly based upon adherence to Christian belief. Until now. Does that perhaps go towards an explanation of the current malaise affecting European affairs?.

I suggest you take more than the briefest glance at European History under a Christian elite, the life of the average person was short but not sweet. Comparing contemporay life unfavourably against a past life of perpetual war, disease, famine, inequality and oppression is truly bizarre coming from a nigh on Marxist.

It could be argued that Constantine politicized Christianity and used it to subjugate the very people it was intended to protect.

The life of the masses improved in spite of Christianity, not because of it.







Last edited by Tosh on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by Tosh on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:36 pm

Science is 99% supposition and that that can be actually proven does not substanciate the evolution theory, theory being the operative word.

Arguments from ignorance or incredulity are logical fallacies, why you insist on adopting this position simply highlights the extent of your cognitive bias.

I don't suppose you can support your claims about science or evolution, that would be asking too much.


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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:00 pm

The stock responses to any and all comment are so well-known to us by now that they could be allocated a number. To save space.

Religion matters to those who think it does. The opinion of anyone else can't be relevant.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?

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