The Leveson Inquiry

First topic message reminder :

I know it's a it late, but I'm starting the thread because Jeremy Hunt gives evidence from 10 this morning and this could be explosive.

Someone I follow on Twitter believes that Hunt might resign soon after giving evidence. How will this affect the evidence he gives (will he be braver?)? How will all this impact on David Cameron? What will be the general knock-on effect?

I think we could also discuss other aspects of the "hacking scandal" in general here too. Let's include discussion on Andy Coulson, who was charged last night with Perjury in relation to his court case in 2010.

It's quite exciting if you're sad like me

There was never any prospect that Cameron would be 'caught out' at Leveson. When in a tight spot, it is open to the likes of him to simply 'not be able to remember'. What will be more telling for the slippery Premier is just how many of the British public believe he is entirely innocent of any wrongdoing, and how many are convinced he is one of the biggest and shadiest crooks this nation's politics has ever seen.

It does not take a genius to hold a coherent view that something is rotten in the State of Westminster and that a smell of corruption may well emanate from 10 Downing Street and the neighbour.

However frustrating it may be that Cameron seems to be 'getting away with it', his day of reckoning will come - we can be sure of that, so keep the bunting handy....

Cameron may live to regret his "I don't recall anything such as that" response to so many questions.

Should further evidence in the matter emerge at some time in the future, he won't be able to challenge it or even comment with any credibility.

I fail to understand that Cameron does not have a diarist recording all that is said

Think of Tony Benn MP and his memoirs, conversations and feellings and "nuances" of what he deduced, all lined up in his books

Cameron may live to regret his "I don't recall anything such as that" response to so many questions

.

By his own hand, Cameron has cut his "Memoirs" down to the size of a Football League match programme!

Predudice --- An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge
or examination of the facts.


"your prejudice is showing." Thanks OW

"Feldman, a leading member of the Jewish business fraternity," FACT.

trevorw2539 wrote:Skywalker quote. Since the Prime Minister and his ministers don’t need preparation to be able to tell the truth, but merely to prevent personal and/or party political damage, any coaching should be outside of their working hours as members of the government. Especially since those hours are, by their own admission, quite limited anyway.

And you can remember dates, times and conversations that you have had over the last 7 years. Meetings you have attended. The agendas for those meetings, and their outcomes.
He is human, and his name is Cameron - not Leslie Welsh - who, if you remember was known as the Memory man.

Much as I dislike his policies even he needs some refreshing. If he hadn't had notice of the topics the whole Inquiry would last till Doomsday, waiting for someone to come and bring relevant diaries and records for him to look up every time he couldn't remember.

This is an inquiry, not a trial. As long as the evidence is correct, that is all that matters. It's then up to Leveson to make his recommendations, not to find anyone guilty of a crime.

What about the opposition leaders who gave testimony. You only mention 'the Prime minister and his ministers'. Is it OK for the others, and those who aren't even MP's now, should they be allowed to 'gen' up on their testimony.

That's what I like about Cuttingedge2 so left wing

He could bring his diary in and refer to it. Not that hard - or his wife's since she keeps a better one. Doesn't need hours and hours.

And your point's flawed. If someone asked me what a text or email I'd sent was about, I'd have a pretty good idea even 7 years later. He's not being asked to recite events in order, he's being asked mostly about what he meant by a particular email.

oftenwrong wrote:Purely in the interests of symmetry, you understand, my response to the original posting may now also be read here too. Here it was:

Re: Additional FOI request: Leveson coaching - whose time was it on?
by oftenwrong Today at 5:33 pm

.Entrapment rarely coincides with Justice. I too like to see lying swine nailed, but not at the cost of fair-dealing.

Everyone is entitled to know what they are accused of, the identity of their Accuser, and ample opportunity to prepare a Defence.

The Robespierre doctrine of guilty uintil proved innocent will usually backfire in English Law, and rightly so.

The point of the FOI request isn't that they can't prepare (though I think if they were simply going to tell the truth, they wouldn't need much prep). It's that if they do prepare, it should be on their own time and not ours. The preparation is for self-protection and party protection. Not for the good of the British people. So we shouldn't be footing the bill.

The original request is aimed at finding out whether the taxpayer has paid for non-govt individuals to be coached, and to find out who was doing it. 'Refamiliarisation' needs a few civil servants going through correspondence to refresh the memory. It doesn't need lawyers, and it doesn't need PR firms. That's spin and damage-limitation, and they should pay for that from their own or their party's funds.

Mel wrote:Predudice --- An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge
or examination of the facts.


"your prejudice is showing." Thanks OW

"Feldman, a leading member of the Jewish business fraternity," FACT.

A fact relevant to the discussion, or gratuitously inserted for some unconnected purpose?

Just askin'

OW Quote--"just asking"

Your prerogative sir and i'm happy to oblige.

Feldman, a leading member of the Jewish business fraternity and close friend of Cameron. The very fact that he is Jewish is not the issue. It is IMO
that this friendship is relevent to the inquiry because again it shows that Cameron is all for the rich business people of any creed not just a Jewish businessman as in this case. You scratch my back and I will scratch yours.

It reinforces the allegations that Cameron was close and assisting Murdoch via Hunt or in any way he could without being detected. Of course the fact that Murdoch is an Australian is as academic as Feldman is Jewish. The point is they are both powerful business men who Cameron has got too close to. Too close it may prove to be at the end of this inquiry.

After having being in self exile from this forum , it was very amusing to see how inane some of the posts have gotten and how low brow they are . Certain forum members have become even more right wing since I last properly perused and read at any depth.
The reason I have comited fingers to qwerty keyboard is for one reason ,

Oftenwrong , "your prejudice is showing."

Mel , Feldman, a leading member of the Jewish business fraternity and close friend of Cameron.

My post regarding Jewish Congressmen in the US government received zero replies.
This told me that the subject was taboo and gave me a greater insight into how shallow and weak forum members were, not to have any informed comment on the subject was breathtaking , then again not .

https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t440-why-does-the-united-states-allow-israeli-citizens-to-sit-in-congress

Hello Scarecrow,

I now avoid, or try to, subjects along the Jewish lines, as some see fit, for some reason - maybe they think they are being humerous, I have no idea. Or do they think they are being serious, to put themselves forward as the Politically Correct Police. It has happened too often, so I merely observe, till I see a quiet way to join the discussion.

why does the united states .....................
Because since Adolf's antics the doors have been closed and there is nothing we can do about it.

Our own Parliament has many Jews, would they fight for this country?
We have people elected to Government, hailing from a small rock that sits off of Angelsey, who have never sworn allegiance to the Queen, yet still accept their MP's wages.

are the foundations of BOTH our societys being eroded, AND is this the desired effect?

Would the Jews in Congress, iffin they were born in the US be permitted to take Presidential Office?

Meanwhile, the Civil Servant who was unable to find evidence to undermine Gordon Brown's testimony at Leveson regarding official 'phone calls to Rupert Murdoch is, nonetheless, thanked for his efforts by one of Cameron's 'advisers'...
(msn)

Hello Scarecrow,
I'm sorry that you have not had one single reply to your post regarding Jewish Congressmen. In view of the rules laid out here on this forum which we all have to adhere to regarding racism and indeed anti-semitism it is not therefore surprising that such a delicate subject has been somewhat ignored by members. Even though you have made it clear you are not an anti-semitic. Having said that of course many thousands of very rich Jewish folk fled the Nazis during the war and now have a very big influence within the American economy.

As with all things in this world, money talks power, irrispective of race or religion I am sad to say.

Mel , don't be sorry for me , I would not have even mentioned it , had it not been for your post and the flack you had .

I posted facts , that's all , no one has to reply and I lost no sleep over it ha ha .

Scarecrow wrote:Mel , don't be sorry for me , I would not have even mentioned it , had it not been for your post and the flack you had .

I posted facts , that's all , no one has to reply and I lost no sleep over it ha ha .

That is true Mel, as Scarecrow will not lose sleep over it. When do you Sleep Scarecrow ha ha

just a joke

"I posted facts , that's all , no one has to reply and I lost no sleep over it ha ha ."

That's good Scarecrow. Missed your posts though.

"Flack"? didn't notice any of any concequence, then again i'm thick skinned or just thick.

It appears from reports that the Pipsqueak , Gove, has annoyed Lord Justice Leveson , with some typically rabid comments about the potential effects of the Inquiry currently being carried out.

Gove is concerned, reportedly, about effects on the 'precious liberty' of freedom of speech, that may occur. I should like to take this opportunity to exercise this 'precious liberty' to say that I consider Gove to be one of the most obnoxious shits ever to taint British politics. The weedy creep is such an unpleasant little rat that he must surely be temptingly attractive to Tories as a future leader...

The only thing that will come out of the enquiry is the government will be able to control the press, not sure they can be trusted to do that. I actually agree with Gove on this Phil.

I consider Gove to be
A weedy creep
The most obnoxious shit
In british politics

Send him a poem, Phil. He likes that sort of thing.

Hearing moans of Michael Gove's
It surely all of us behoves
To take a stick and sharpen it
Then poke it in the little git

Do you think this might result in an MBE for me, sicky...?

...sharpening a stick, and joining the queue.

The Leveson Enquiry will report in October, and will express several pious hopes that The Press will stop being beastly to politicians.

Nothing more.

I'd like to shove all thoe bibles straight up the little git's glory hole! The pompus soddin dinosaur! Grrrrr

Adele Carlyon wrote:I'd like to shove all thoe bibles straight up the little git's glory hole! The pompus soddin dinosaur! Grrrrr

He is a pompous little sort isn't he? He seems to think the british public should be subject to his own whims, and inclinations.....poetry, bibles, etc. Does he see himself as our moral guardian or something, or does he view the electorate as his plaything to experiment with and socially engineer. What an arrogant little unlikeable man he is.

The only 'precious freedom' in which Gove truly believes is the right to do exactly what he and the Daily Mail tells us...

All very true sickie, doesn't make him wrong regarding the enquiry though. Until now the only person who appears to be at odds with the truth seems to be Brown. The rest are simply strolling through the whole parade. Also true that the only one that seems to have retained any dignity was Major. Weird world innit?

sickchip wrote:

Adele Carlyon wrote:I'd like to shove all thoe bibles straight up the little git's glory hole! The pompus soddin dinosaur! Grrrrr

He is a pompous little sort isn't he? He seems to think the british public should be subject to his own whims, and inclinations.....poetry, bibles, etc. Does he see himself as our moral guardian or something, or does he view the electorate as his plaything to experiment with and socially engineer. What an arrogant little unlikeable man he is.

Spot on Sickie! He lives in a soddin time warp, he has that typical tory "i know best attitude" too. He's talking the teachers down and is intent on screwing up the national curriculum. Surely teachers know how to teach, and if they don't they shouldn'y be teachers. I absolutely despise the cocky little toad. He needs to reign his neck in before someone snaps it for him! Jesus, I can recite all of WB Yeats' poem easter 1916, but it didn't get me a bloody job! Tsk

" I can recite all of WB Yeats' poem easter 1916, but it didn't get me a bloody job! Tsk " .

Could this be because the question posed at interview was :" Please tell us about your previous employment, Ms Carlyon..." ?

haha! Yup! I told them that too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart, and I still didn't get the piggin job! I threw a bit of shakespear's sonnets at them too and even rough winds shaking the darling buds of may didn't work!!!! hehe....

Until now the only person who appears to be at odds with the truth seems to be Brown.

LOL. What you might have said if you could bring yourself to tell the truth for just once in your life is that Brown was one of the few people at Leveson who has been able to recall the past and doesn't suffer from selective memory syndrome.

tlttf wrote:All very true sickie, doesn't make him wrong regarding the enquiry though. Until now the only person who appears to be at odds with the truth seems to be Brown. The rest are simply strolling through the whole parade. Also true that the only one that seems to have retained any dignity was Major. Weird world innit?

hello tlttf,

Well somebody has perjured themselves for sure. I think it's a little unfair to single Brown out - do you really believe Murdoch over Brown? Let's not forget Major's testimony also indicates Murdoch might have lied.

I wouldn't believe Murdoch if he told me it was monday tomorrow. He's the bloody devil incarnate. I think Brown is a far more honourable man than Murdoch and co.

Yes, I had the feeling that the convincing nature of most of Brown's testimony would prove difficult for his professional doubters to stomach....

The problem for many of us is that it's not easy to like someone who made a career out of being unlikeable.

Blamhappy wrote:I know it's a it late, but I'm starting the thread because Jeremy Hunt gives evidence from 10 this morning and this could be explosive.

Someone I follow on Twitter believes that Hunt might resign soon after giving evidence. How will this affect the evidence he gives (will he be braver?)? How will all this impact on David Cameron? What will be the general knock-on effect?

I think we could also discuss other aspects of the "hacking scandal" in general here too. Let's include discussion on Andy Coulson, who was charged last night with Perjury in relation to his court case in 2010.

It's quite exciting if you're sad like me

Blamhappy, Why did we have the Levenson enquiry ?. Because of phone hacking. Why did we have the phone hacking, ?. Because a huge percentage of the public like to read junk in the Murdoch press.

Who is responsible for the Levenson equiry ?............................ The mindless readership of the Murdoch Press. Who is responsibly for the State of Britain today ?. Murdoch's readership.

Some while ago on the green near the House of Commons, actor Hugh Grant had a message for Rupert Murdoch, he answered this to a question from a reporter, ie "have you anything to say to Rupert Murdoch ?.

Yes Hugh Grant said, this. "Why have you ruined my country" ?

He's right. Murdoch's dreadful.

I like Hugh Grant, but journalists don't!

Blamhappy wrote:He's right. Murdoch's dreadful.

I like Hugh Grant, but journalists don't!

No, my point is that his readership are thick.

Yeah, they are. lol

Blamhappy wrote:Yeah, they are. lol

I would love to know what will be in the Leveson report whenever it comes out, who will be on his liar list ??

QUOTE: "....Ed Miliband and his hopefuls to get their act together ...."

Separating Cameron from his Party in Parliament next week, on Leveson, sounds to me like a rather good beginning to The First Act.

oftenwrong wrote:QUOTE: "....Ed Miliband and his hopefuls to get their act together ...."

Separating Cameron from his Party in Parliament next week, on Leveson, sounds to me like a rather good beginning to The First Act.

I agree OW that will be the first step, then showing all voters out there that the Labour party will pay off the deficit but with the fairness, something this Tory gov't have not got a clue about.

It is now beginning to look as if there is going to be another compromise arrived at over this serious clash where Cameron wants a totally voluntary code of ethics for the media but Clegg and his new pal Ed Miliband want these new rules for the governance of the media enshrined in law.

Personally, I would not trust the media any further than I could throw the lot of them as far as self-regulation is concerned and it has to be a good idea for this new set of ethical rules to be enshrined in law.

I guess we are going to see how this works out very soon !

Regards....

Papaumau.