To hate Jews is to hate God

by Greatest I am Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

To hate Jews is to hate God.

If you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, then you must believe that God planned for it and set the conditions even before the earth was formed. If as most believe, the Jews were the cause of the sacrifice, then one must believe that God put the notion and desire to kill Jesus in the Jewish hearts. Jews then were God’s tools in carrying out God’s plan. Jews then should be venerated just as Jesus is because Jesus and Jews were required and caused by God to participate in the sacrifice. They were all doing God’s will and not their own.

Jesus was a Jew and to hate Jews means that Jesus is also hated. The church has historically persecuted Jews and only repented for their actions in 2011 with the pope acknowledging that not all Jews should be hated. Just those directly involved in the sacrifice of Jesus. Ignoring of course that they were charged directly by God to be and do what God wanted.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jews-not-responsible-for-death-of-christ-pope-says-49267/

Why then have Christians historically hated Jews, and by inference, hate the Jew part of God/Jesus the Jew?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKg4HLsu5gE&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

The weird twist to this history is that the Christian right who hates Jews the most, is now the ones pushing for funding of the Jewish homeland to fulfill prophesy.

Most Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. Is the Christian right just funding Jews to help drive them to destruction at the hands of God?

Jews tend not to read the O. T. the way Christians do. Are Christian interpretations of Jewish text superior or inferior to the Jewish interpretation of their own myths?

Regards
DL

by Guest Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:18 pm

No “J” in 1611 King James Version?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e2FE4atcEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpnDLfmRcws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WC_qIG94Ag

More.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0RiHp_GSYs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSVYxFwA3fg&feature=endscreen&NR=1

I’ve not posted these videos because I agree with the “authors”; I’ve posted this because the content motivates me to think beyond what I “know.”

by snowyflake Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:50 pm

Sorry but the man preaching is a nutter. And he is preaching semantics. The man that is referred to in the gospels could be called Jesus, Joshua, Jehosephat or John James Jingleheimerschmidt. It doesn't matter.

A rose by any other name smells as sweet. Jesus by any other name is still the messiah to christians.

Why do you get hung up on what his name might have been. I'd be more hung up on whether or not he was even real.

by Guest Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:54 pm

by snowyflake Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:58 pm

King James has a 'J' Smile

The point is it doesn't matter whether there's a J or not. So what? That's the problem with translations. Sometimes one alphabet has letters the other one doesn't and so substitutions occur. It's not a crime and it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of christianity.

by Guest Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:43 pm

by Guest Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:29 am

This might make you sick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MEhBY9p1EQ

by polyglide Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:25 am

Having considered the intelligent and sensible posts made by some and the unintelligent and childish responses from others I feel that both Shirina andf Snowyflake are the best examples of cynics that I have ever come across and I have met a few.

by Tosh Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:42 am

The NT is littered with anti-Semitic rhetoric especially the writings attributed to some nut job called John, if one reads the NT books in their chronological order starting with Paul and ending with John, they record a 50 year transition from a Jewish sect to an anti-Semitic faith, the religion of Jesus becomes a religion about Jesus. By the end of the first century the early attempts of Paul to reconcile the two theologies is completely abandoned and Jesus is a full blown pagan demi-god, whose human form was killed by the Jews not the pagan Romans.

The destruction of the Jews in Jerusalem in 70ce removed the biggest obstacle to Christian theology, there simply was no need to accommodate their theology any more.

by Tosh Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:47 am

Having considered the intelligent and sensible posts made by some and the unintelligent and childish responses from others I feel that both Shirina andf Snowyflake are the best examples of cynics that I have ever come across and I have met a few.

They make you look stupid, get over it, you are.

by polyglide Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:10 am

From anyone with common sense I may take offence but Tosh you could not, as your posts indicate, pontificate, on anything beyond the two year old stage.

I did not include you as a cynic because I knew you would not understand the implications there are none so dumb as those who cannot see.

{ the see is not refference to sight, I just thought I would point that out]

by Tosh Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:24 am

Are you sure you are not a girlie, you insult like one. Very Happy

by Shirina Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:47 pm

It matters to me for reasons remarkably similar to the reasons given in the second set of videos. I am painfully and furiously aware of the simmering, smoldering anti-Jew sentiment that lies just below the skins of many who claim Christianity.

Really? Most Christians I have spoken to - especially the more militant evangelical versions - may as well be Jewish. They seem to prefer the Old Testament to the New and don't put much stock in anything Jesus said (as you well know). In addition, any criticism of Israel is considered, in their eyes, anti-semitic, and they bash Obama for not being Israel's lapdog.

by Guest Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:26 pm

by Tosh Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:23 pm

Fascinating dialogue from Texas and Shirina, can we just say most Catholics hate Jews and most Protestants hate Jews except for Moses and Jesus.

by oftenwrong Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:22 pm

".... most Catholics hate Jews and most Protestants hate Jews except for Moses and Jesus."

A contributor to The Observer, Catherine Whitehorn, once wrote "I never hate in plurals".

Her intelligence was confirmed every time she was interviewed, most apparent on Television or radio of course, by an invariable pause for several seconds before providing her response to a question.

That's rare. "Most people" prefer to blurt something for fear of being thought not to have a ready answer to everything under the sun.

by Tosh Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:44 pm

"Most people" prefer to blurt something for fear of being thought not to have a ready answer to everything under the sun.

...don't be too hard on yourself.

by oftenwrong Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:57 pm

pas de touche mon brave!

If the cap fits - wear it!

It's a beginner's error to ascribe one's own faults to opponents, n'est-ce pas?

by Shirina Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:55 pm

I speak not of persons

by Guest Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:13 pm

“You can’t see the forest for the trees.”

This adage, quoted earlier by me in reference to another matter, has applied to me for two hundred ninety-nine days, four hours, and nine minutes.

The forest: This thread, since its inception two hundred ninety-nine days, four hours, and nine minutes ago, has carried truth as its title. I did not realize this until now. My bad.

by Guest Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:21 pm

by oftenwrong Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:34 pm

Greatest I am wrote:To hate Jews is to hate God.

If you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, then you must believe that God planned for it and set the conditions even before the earth was formed. If as most believe, the Jews were the cause of the sacrifice, then one must believe that God put the notion and desire to kill Jesus in the Jewish hearts....

It's possible to attach too much importance to polemic such as this opening salvo - which is presumably intended to stimulate discussion. To "blame" the Jews for what happened to Jesus is arguably illogical, because who but a person's own Peers would be entitled to sit in judgment? In such circumstances the Roman occupying power was almost guaranteed to require the locals to sort out their own internal disputes.

by snowyflake Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:13 am

I feel that both Shirina andf Snowyflake are the best examples of cynics that I have ever come across and I have met a few.

We are not the ones who think the world 'is in such a state' because 'man doesn't do what God intended' and it's 'all man's fault not God's' and 'let's not forget the input of the Devil' who might be OW for all we know.

We are not the pessimist, polyglide. The world is a much better place than it was 50, 100 or 500 years ago. Polyglide the Apocalyptist wants to usher in the Second Coming so he can go to heaven and everyone else can go to hell.

Nice Smile

by Guest Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:42 am

Greatest I am wrote:
To hate Jews is to hate God.

If you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, then you must believe that God planned for it and set the conditions even before the earth was formed. If as most believe, the Jews were the cause of the sacrifice, then one must believe that God put the notion and desire to kill Jesus in the Jewish hearts.

oftenwrong wrote:
It's possible to attach too much importance to polemic such as this opening salvo - which is preumably intended to stimulate discussion. To "blame" the Jews for what happened to Jesus is arguably illogical, because who but a person's own Peers would be entitled to sit in judgment? In such circumstances the Roman occupying power was almost guaranteed to require the locals to sort out their own internal disputes.

I am guilty of “[attaching] too much importance to… this opening salvo”; in fact, this diatribe is one among many trees planted by the thread initiator that I have allowed to prevent me from seeing the forest.

A highly-fictitious novel about the Maccabees begins and ends with a Michener-ish historically accurate narrative report “penned” by a Roman official sent by the Roman Republic to negotiate with the Maccabee.

Several decades ago, a long=ago very-ex-girlfriend lent me a paperback copy of James Michener’s Hawaii. Bad move on her part; when she got it back a week or two later, it had deteriorated, due to my intense reading, from mint condition to well-word. Even today, Hawaii is among only six long novels which I could barely stand to put down until I finished reading. Counting in chronological order, these novels are (1) Samuel Clemens’ Huckleberry Finn (first read, thirteen years old), (2) Huckleberry Finn (second read, nineteen years old), (3) Mario Puzo’s The Godfather, (4) Michener’s Hawaii, (5) James Clavell’s Shōgun, and (6) Michener’s The Covenant.

This Roman officials “report”, structured as a prologue and epilogue to the actual novel, captured my full attention in a similar manner. Thankfully, it was less than fifty pages long (maybe), so I didn’t feel compelled to find long red lights at which to stop my car so that I could read just one more paragraph.

Why the fascination? According to the Roman official’s “report”, pre-Y’shua bar Yosef Yuden apparently lived in a society that stood in stark contrast to all other circum-Mediterranean societies. Slaves had legally prescribed and protected rights, including the right to be freed after “slaving” for a certain number of years. Slaves were a minority rather than a majority, significantly outnumbered by free citizens. Almost all men were literate, a skill necessary to read Torah portions, which all men were expected to do from time to time, both within their families and in public Shabbat services (no clergy among Yuden). Women were citizens with rights; they owned themselves, they owned property, and they could inherit property. Perhaps Trevor might shed some detail-revealing light on these items included in the Roman official’s “narrative report.”

Yuden led the way towards better society. Perhaps that’s why they were chosen by Adonai Eluheinu; perhaps one must love Yuden to love YHVH Elohim who chose then.

To the best of my knowledge, Roman law and Roman authorities disallowed executions ordered by the Sanhedrin, reserving authority to dispense ultimate punishment unto themselves. Thus, as Y’shua was executed by crucifixion, Yuden did not kill Y’shua; Romans killed Y’shua. Also, switching because of personal ignorance into Anglicized Greek and English, the whole “Trinity” construct was not fabricated until maybe two or three hundred years after Jesus’ crucifixion (perhaps Trevor will help with the precision), so “the Jews” couldn’t have killed God hundreds of years prior to Jesus’ “assignment” as God, even if “the Jews” had done the unthinkable and executed Jesus in defiance of Roman law.

by polyglide Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:53 am

Latest:-

From a scientist.

The world is in danger from four main sources with the possible result being the end of mankind.

Asteroid.
Volcano
Nuclear Bomb
Biotechnology.

Now the former two we are not able to control and have nothing to do with man's actions.

The latter are both the result of mankinds actions.

Now can you just point out when the world has ever been in it's present state.

by Tosh Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:08 am

What kind of scientist ignores a pandemic as the most likely species killer, god brewing up nasty viruses to kill us all.

by polyglide Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:21 am

My last post was the theory of an emminant scientist who I thought you thought were always right, the wORLD IS ROUND.

So you pick and choose your scientists, very clever.

If there was to be a virus it would be the actions of mankind and not God who was the cause.

by Tosh Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:29 am

Pagans believe Jesus was killed by the Jews for claiming to be the son of God, all Jews consider themselves to be the son of god, its hardly going to get you killed.

Pagans believe Jesus was killed by the Jews for claiming to be the Messiah, Messianic claims were not uncommon amongst the Jews, Jews judged this claim on its actions not words.

Pagans believe Jesus was killed by the Jews for claiming to be the son of man, again this is not a blasphemous claim to divinity, it is a divinely appointed position.

In reality Jesus was not wandering around for years preaching he was God in a monotheistic culture, he wouldn't have got out of Galilee alive never mind making it to Jerusalem.

I really don't think Pontius Pilate executed a Jew for claiming to be God, its far more probable he executed him for stirring up the masses at Passover, preaching the end of the world was coming, and the world was Rome.

Once the split between Judaism and the Jewish sect of Jesus became irreversible, it was in the interests of Christianity to demonize the Jews who rejected Jesus was the Messiah, they tweaked the story a tad and made their rejection the cause of his death.

by Tosh Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:30 am

If there was to be a virus it would be the actions of mankind and not God who was the cause.

Bird flu.

by Shirina Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:30 am

Now can you just point out when the world has ever been in it's present state.

Between the years 1348 and 1350, bubonic plague, 200 million dead. (This number doesn't count the untold thousands who were murdered in a religious panic)

Between the years 1918 and 1920, Spanish flu outbreak, 100 million dead.

To put that into perspective, WWII, the most destructive war in human history only killed 60 million.

Can you tell me, polyglide, what historical era was ideal, in your opinion?

by Shirina Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:32 am

My last post was the theory of an emminant scientist who I thought you thought were always right, the wORLD IS ROUND.

No one here has ever claimed that scientists are always right.

I will claim, however, that religion has always been wrong.

by Shirina Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:33 am

If there was to be a virus it would be the actions of mankind and not God who was the cause.

Who created viruses, bacteria, and germs, polyglide?

by polyglide Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:47 am

Viruses and germs were all caused and are being caused by the misuse of all manner of that which God gave and were meant for only the purpose for which he made them, abuse in all forms is the downfall of mankind.

by polyglide Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:57 am

Shirina, please, please ,address the question and not come up with a load of old stastistics that haave nothing to do with the subject.

Mankind, relative to the theoretic age of the earth, has been on the earth for a period of time that cannot be expressed in a term low enough to actually make it conceivable to us.

Yet during that time he has done more harm in every way than anything in prior history.

Ruined the forrests, built concrete jungles, caused endless problems in every aspect of life , shown disregard for everyone and everything and this throughout history, history spanning ,in the terms of mankind that as above.

by Shirina Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:59 am

Viruses and germs were all caused and are being caused by the misuse of all manner of that which God gave and were meant for only the purpose for which he made them

So, you admit that God created viruses, germs, and bacteria.

Explain to me, please, how people "misused" the bubonic plague in 1348 that caused the Black Death.

by Shirina Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:07 pm

Shirina, please, please ,address the question and not come up with a load of old stastistics that haave nothing to do with the subject.

Do you even know what the subject is? You asked when the world has been in a worse state and I provided you the years in which the world WAS in a worse state and proved it by giving you death statistics. I can't help it if you hate to be proven wrong, but that's the risk you take when you post here.

Yet during that time he has done more harm in every way than anything in prior history.

That's simply untrue. Both Snowy and I have tried fruitlessly to explain precisely WHY that is untrue, but you won't listen.

Ruined the forrests, built concrete jungles, caused endless problems in every aspect of life , shown disregard for everyone and everything and this throughout history, history spanning ,in the terms of mankind that as above.

Oh, but we haven't ruined forests, polyglide. No, no, no. Because forests were DESIGNED to be converted into wood for housing and other useful things. Right?

Concrete jungles. LOL! And I suppose we're all supposed to be farmers or else frolic around in the woods like fairies singing and dancing around like lemurs, eh? No technology, no housing (can't chop those trees, after all), no medicine, no nothing. Perhaps you'll at least allow a loin cloth?

You really have no idea what life was like before the modern age, do you. Not even the smallest little clue.

by Tosh Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:17 pm

Almost all men were literate, a skill necessary to read Torah portions, which all men were expected to do from time to time, both within their families and in public Shabbat services.

Texas,

I would like you to consider the practicalities of what you are claiming, given the numbers of men and the amount of available reading material at this time. Are you suggesting most men went to school and were taught to read and write in the bronze age ?

Is it not more probable the average Joe memorized the required verses like in most oral traditions ?

I find the idea that most Bronze Age Jewish men were literate unbelievable.

by polyglide Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:22 pm

Shirina, just what planet are you on, it certainly is not this one.

The fact that their has been loss of life is in no way relative to the state the world is in at this time.

There has never ever been the potential for the destruction of mankind and the earth, I can give many, by the click of the mouse all the previous wars and all manner of loss of life which is TOTTALLY IRRELEVANT.

It matters not what life in any other period was it is now that matters.

History is just that, history.

And I could quote history all day and it would not change the present state of the world.

I do not know how you work out and on what basis you think forrests were created.

by oftenwrong Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:22 pm

polyglide wrote:Viruses and germs were all caused and are being caused by the misuse of all manner of that which God gave and were meant for only the purpose for which he made them, abuse in all forms is the downfall of mankind.

"Viruses and germs" NOT competing life-forms then. That's a relief. We can die happily of disease knowing it's all our own fault.

by Tosh Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:27 pm

The myth of Jewish literacy.

By combining a very thorough look at the historical record with new economic and demographic analyses, the authors summarily dismiss a great many of the underlying assumptions that have produced theories around Jewish literacy in the past. Where many tied the Jewish move into professional trades to the European era when Jews were persecuted, Botticini and Eckstein bring forward evidence that the move away from the unlettered world of premodern agriculture actually happened a thousand years earlier, when Jews were largely free to pursue the profession of their choice. And where so many have simply taken as a given universal literacy among Jews, the economists find that a majority of Jews actually weren't willing to invest in Jewish education, with the shocking result that more than two-thirds of the Jewish community disappeared toward the end of the first millennium.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2012/11/the_myth_of_jewish_literacy_maristella_botticini_and_zvi_eckstein_explain.html

Edited because of a serious breach of our copyright rules. Ivan.

by Tosh Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:33 pm

It matters not what life in any other period was it is now that matters.

You must be backward, there is no other explanation for your stupidity.

by oftenwrong Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:37 pm

Not much there about the Diaspora, Tosh.

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