To hate Jews is to hate God

by Greatest I am Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

To hate Jews is to hate God.

If you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, then you must believe that God planned for it and set the conditions even before the earth was formed. If as most believe, the Jews were the cause of the sacrifice, then one must believe that God put the notion and desire to kill Jesus in the Jewish hearts. Jews then were God’s tools in carrying out God’s plan. Jews then should be venerated just as Jesus is because Jesus and Jews were required and caused by God to participate in the sacrifice. They were all doing God’s will and not their own.

Jesus was a Jew and to hate Jews means that Jesus is also hated. The church has historically persecuted Jews and only repented for their actions in 2011 with the pope acknowledging that not all Jews should be hated. Just those directly involved in the sacrifice of Jesus. Ignoring of course that they were charged directly by God to be and do what God wanted.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jews-not-responsible-for-death-of-christ-pope-says-49267/

Why then have Christians historically hated Jews, and by inference, hate the Jew part of God/Jesus the Jew?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKg4HLsu5gE&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

The weird twist to this history is that the Christian right who hates Jews the most, is now the ones pushing for funding of the Jewish homeland to fulfill prophesy.

Most Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. Is the Christian right just funding Jews to help drive them to destruction at the hands of God?

Jews tend not to read the O. T. the way Christians do. Are Christian interpretations of Jewish text superior or inferior to the Jewish interpretation of their own myths?

Regards
DL

by Guest Thu May 16, 2013 9:59 pm

snowyflake wrote:
a•the•ist
[ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Origin:
1565–75; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless + -ist

a•the•ist (th-st)
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist

snowyflake wrote:
Atheism
Date: 15-02-2012 /
admin's picture
Author: admin / Tag: atheism /

Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, which implies that nothing exists but natural phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter, and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be. Humankind is on its own.

The following definition of atheism was given to the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), to remove reverential Bible reading and oral unison recitation of the Lord's Prayer in the public schools:http://atheists.org/atheism

snowyflake wrote:
“Your petitioners are atheists and they define their beliefs as follows. An atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.

An atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.

An atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.http://atheists.org/atheism

snowyflake wrote:
He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man.

He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.

He believes that we are our brother's keepers and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.”

http://atheists.org/atheism

atheist

athe•ist noun \ˈā-thē-ist\

Definition of ATHEIST

: one who believes that there is no deity

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

Atheist Empire

Atheist and Atheism Defined

English: atheist

Cambridge International:
someone who believes that God or gods do not exist

http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

“Your petitioners are atheists and they define their beliefs as follows.”
http://atheists.org/atheism
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“He believes that we are our brother's keepers and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

By definition of the petitioners, an atheist believes, accordingly, by definition of the petitioners, an atheist is a believer.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of ATHEIST: one who believes that there is no deity
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

By definition of Merriam-Webster Dictionary, an atheist believes, accordingly, by definition of Merriam-Webster Dictionary, an atheist is a believer.

Atheist Empire
Atheist and Atheism Defined
English: atheist
Cambridge International:
someone who believes that God or gods do not exist
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

By definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist believes, accordingly, by definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist is a believer.

by snowyflake Thu May 16, 2013 10:48 pm

An atheist believes, like every human being on the planet believes in one thing or another. An atheist just doesn't believe that a God or any god exists. That belief is based on reason, evidence or lack of evidence, logic, knowledge and common sense.

A theist believes in God for no reason whatsoever other than the promise of eternal life. A theist is a delusional death denier who believes in the supernatural and believes that there are invisible spirits interacting with humans on a regular basis.

Atheists believe. They just don't believe in God. Get over it.

by Guest Thu May 16, 2013 11:00 pm

snowyflake wrote:
An atheist believes…

Atheists believe.

“… by definition, an atheist is a believer.”
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p630-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40564

You‘ve finally admitted that this truth is truth.

snowyflake wrote:
Get over it.

Get over what?

by Shirina Fri May 17, 2013 1:19 am

Atheists don't "believe" there is no god any more than you or I "believe" there are no fairies. A disbelief in fairies is essentially a "given" and therefore there are no serious debates on the subject. The ONLY reason why the word "belief" is a point of contention regarding atheisim is because of the number of people who are religious - and because religion enjoys a protected status and a certain degree of immunity against criticism. The amount of empircal evidence for God is exactly the same as for fairies, which is to say no evidence at all. This is the reason why there aren't any debates over fairies. Nor is there a special label describing someone who does not believe in fairies. But God is a different story altogether because of how ingrained it is in our culture and our personal identities.

Thusly, even though the amount of evidence for fairies and God is identical, we must hand out a special dispensation for God belief because of its political, cultural, and psychological influence. To say that atheists "believe" there is no God leaves open the possibility that there IS a God - something we simply do not do for fairies. Am I right? If religion wasn't such a big deal, there would be no "atheists" and they wouldn't "believe" there is no God because the consensus of the majority of society would be in agreement that no God exists - just as it is concerning fairies.

The word "belief" regarding atheists is only used because the majority of people believe differently - and NOT because the evidence supporting atheism or religion could go either way. To claim that atheism "believes" there is no God is to say that Christians "believe" there is no Zeus - which implies there just might BE a Zeus. Yet nearly every Christian on the planet would emphatically deny Zeus's existence.

This means, at the end of the day, Christians (and all others who think atheists "believe") have backed themselves into an inescapable corner. As the saying goes, Christians are atheists to all other gods but theirs, which means they only "believe" that Ganesh, Kali, Allah, and Zeus do not exist. Which means maybe they do, and no Christian can claim with certainty that those other Gods do NOT exist. Except they DO claim they don't exist.

Either Christians have to admit that, Ganesh, say, might exist, which means their religion just might be false. OR ... they have to admit that atheists do not "believe" the Christian God exists any more than Christians "believe" that all other Gods don't exist.

Did you enjoy my logic bomb? I certainly did. Have fun with it.

by Guest Fri May 17, 2013 2:30 am

Shirina wrote:
Atheists don't "believe" there is no god…

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of ATHEIST: one who believes that there is no deity
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

By definition of Merriam-Webster Dictionary, an atheist believes that there is no deity, accordingly, by definition of Merriam-Webster Dictionary, an atheist is a believer that there is no deity.

Atheist Empire
Atheist and Atheism Defined
English: atheist
Cambridge International:
someone who believes that God or gods do not exist
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

By definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist believes that God or gods do not exist, accordingly, by definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist is a believer that God or gods do not exist.

by Shirina Fri May 17, 2013 6:00 am

By definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist believes that God or gods do not exist, accordingly, by definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist is a believer that God or gods do not exist.

Argued against and debunked.

Now, try refuting what I've said in my previous post.

by Guest Fri May 17, 2013 6:48 am

Shirina wrote:
By definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist believes that God or gods do not exist, accordingly, by definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist is a believer that God or gods do not exist.
Argued against and debunked.

Now, try refuting what I've said in my previous post.

Atheist Empire
Atheist and Atheism Defined
English: atheist
Cambridge International:
someone who believes that God or gods do not exist
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

By definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist believes that God or gods do not exist, accordingly, by definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist is a believer that God or gods do not exist.

Try refuting Atheist Empire.

by polyglide Fri May 17, 2013 11:40 am

I truly believe Shirina is away with the fairies.

An athiest can be anything other that a believer in God. you will find any manner of both good and bad amongst them, indulging in every sin and the most depraved activities.

A self acclaimed Christian can also indulge in the same but he/she would not actaully be a Christian, there is a big difference.

by Shirina Fri May 17, 2013 11:59 am

I truly believe Shirina is away with the fairies.

Since Rock is indulging in the infinitum ad nauseum fallacy, why don't you try to refute what I've said?

An athiest can be anything other that a believer in God.

No, an atheist does what you do in regards to Zeus. Do you simply "believe" there is no Zeus? Or do you KNOW there is no Zeus? How about an honest answer for a change.

A self acclaimed Christian can also indulge in the same but he/she would not actaully be a Christian, there is a big difference.

This is utter tripe. To claim that sinners cannot be Christian is to say that Christians are perfect. Are you perfect, polyglide?

by polyglide Fri May 17, 2013 12:09 pm

No one is perfect but a true Christian would not indulge in many of the activities those who do not believe think is acceptable.

An athiest is one who does not believe in God, end of matter.

No one is without sin.

Some are without sense and are unable to use the brain God gave them.

by Shirina Fri May 17, 2013 12:14 pm

No one is perfect but a true Christian would not indulge in many of the activities those who do not believe think is acceptable.

I don't indulge in any of those things - does that make me a Christian?

An athiest is one who does not believe in God, end of matter.

Ah, I see. So you only "believe" there is no Zeus. Which means there might be a Zeus. And that implies that your religion might be false. Got it. I'll keep that in mind.

Some are without sense and are unable to use the brain God gave them.

Where's that irony emoticon?!

by polyglide Fri May 17, 2013 12:22 pm

Your posts become more and more those of a person very unstable in life and completely lost to reality.

A Christian believes in God, if you believe in God and Jesus you are a |Christian if you do not and cannot understand that then you are an IDIOT.

An atheist has nothing to do with anything else other than either believing in God or not. I know these kind of things are hard for you to comprehend.

I do not know but you are a prime example.

by Shirina Fri May 17, 2013 12:30 pm

Your posts become more and more those of a person very unstable in life and completely lost to reality.

Do I need to start another poll?

A Christian believes in God, if you believe in God and Jesus you are a |Christian if you do not and cannot understand that then you are an IDIOT.

Ahhh ... so being a Christian is not about the sins you indulge in, but the God you believe in. Which, of course, contradicts what you just got done saying.

Would you care to step on any more landmines I keep laying in your path?

An atheist has nothing to do with anything else other than either believing in God or not.

Why can't we be as certain that there is NO God as you are certain that there IS a God? Stacking the deck in your favor by moving the goal posts is disingenuous. After all, do you merely "believe" in God or do you "know" there is a God?

I know these kind of things are hard for you to comprehend.

Nurse, I need an irony emoticon. Stat!

I do not know but you are a prime example.

Yes, I am a prime example of someone in desperate need of an irony emoticon.

by Guest Fri May 17, 2013 4:12 pm

Shirina wrote:
Since Rock is indulging in the infinitum ad nauseum fallacy…

RockOnBrother wrote:
Atheist Empire
Atheist and Atheism Defined
English: atheist
Cambridge International:
someone who believes that God or gods do not exist
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

By definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist believes that God or gods do not exist, accordingly, by definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist is a believer that God or gods do not exist.

https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p660-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40677

I await your refutation of Atheist Empire.

by oftenwrong Fri May 17, 2013 5:24 pm

I await your refutation of Atheist Empire.

Indeed. In Syria this week they speak of little else.

by snowyflake Fri May 17, 2013 6:11 pm

“… by definition, an atheist is a believer.”

A believer of what exactly?

by snowyflake Fri May 17, 2013 6:16 pm

The emotional shortcomings and needs that are fulfilled by the belief such as fear of death and the unknown, knowing that someone is looking out for you and an explanation and order of all things.

Faith: Define faith as a belief based on want without emphasis on facts or evidence and demonstrate it's extreme importance in belief in God. more about FAITH
Feelings and Experiences: People who experience specific feelings they associate with God or other spiritual beings are probably valid in that they did feel something. However people of all faiths and practices feel things and this is evidence more of it being a psychological condition and interpretation rather than an authentic supernatural experience because they all believe in different things.

http://atheistempire.com/atheism/attacking_belief.php

by snowyflake Fri May 17, 2013 6:17 pm

"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means." - George Bernard Shaw

Do we know anyone like that?

by Guest Fri May 17, 2013 6:26 pm

snowyflake wrote:
“… by definition, an atheist is a believer.”
A believer of what exactly?

These things:

RockOnBrother wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p660-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40655
snowyflake wrote:
The following definition of atheism was given to the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), to remove reverential Bible reading and oral unison recitation of the Lord's Prayer in the public schools:http://atheists.org/atheism
snowyflake wrote:
“Your petitioners are atheists and they define their beliefs as follows. An atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.

An atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.

An atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.http://atheists.org/atheism
snowyflake wrote:
He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man.

He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.

He believes that we are our brother's keepers and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.”

http://atheists.org/atheism
atheist

athe•ist noun \ˈā-thē-ist\

Definition of ATHEIST

: one who believes that there is no deity

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist
Atheist Empire

Atheist and Atheism Defined

English: atheist

Cambridge International:
someone who believes that God or gods do not exist

http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html
“Your petitioners are atheists and they define their beliefs as follows.”
http://atheists.org/atheism
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“He believes that we are our brother's keepers and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

By definition of the petitioners, an atheist believes, accordingly, by definition of the petitioners, an atheist is a believer.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of ATHEIST: one who believes that there is no deity
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

By definition of Merriam-Webster Dictionary, an atheist believes, accordingly, by definition of Merriam-Webster Dictionary, an atheist is a believer.

Atheist Empire
Atheist and Atheism Defined
English: atheist
Cambridge International:
someone who believes that God or gods do not exist
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

By definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist believes, accordingly, by definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist is a believer.

by oftenwrong Fri May 17, 2013 7:36 pm

See how much can be transcribed without ever using the letter "J"?

by Shirina Fri May 17, 2013 7:55 pm

These things:

Already debunked.

No, an ad nauseum refutation doesn't count.

by snowyflake Fri May 17, 2013 8:32 pm

These things:

RockOnBrother wrote:
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p660-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40655

snowyflake wrote:
The following definition of atheism was given to the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), to remove reverential Bible reading and oral unison recitation of the Lord's Prayer in the public schools:http://atheists.org/atheism

snowyflake wrote:
“Your petitioners are atheists and they define their beliefs as follows. An atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.

An atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.

An atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.http://atheists.org/atheism

snowyflake wrote:
He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man.

He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.

He believes that we are our brother's keepers and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.”

http://atheists.org/atheism

atheist

athe•ist noun \ˈā-thē-ist\

Definition of ATHEIST

: one who believes that there is no deity

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

Atheist Empire

Atheist and Atheism Defined

English: atheist

Cambridge International:
someone who believes that God or gods do not exist

http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

“Your petitioners are atheists and they define their beliefs as follows.”
http://atheists.org/atheism
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

“He believes that we are our brother's keepers and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

We see here the poster focusing on the word believe or belief but not focusing on what an atheist believes. This is a typical cherry picking believers tactic. It is not based on truth. The believers delusion is so ingrained that truth packed its bags and left home around 14 years of age and the believer has spent the last 50 years of his life lying to himself and others.

God has no place in an atheist's life for the reason that we see the belief in God as poisonous to society, a wall to rational thought, a hinderance to scientific inquiry and the denial of facts and evidence and the reason for fostering intolerance and hate of anyone who doesn't believe in God or subscribe to God's commandments.

No point in denying it. We see the evidence of religious intolerance everywhere. It's not the atheists going around killing in the name of God. It's not the atheists blowing shit up. It's not the atheists telling gay people they can't marry, have children and live a happy fulfilled life. It's not the atheists telling people that science is wrong and that magic created the universe.

And it's not atheists lying to others about the facts of life and death. When you come to terms with the realisation that God is not there and never has been you find you can still live a happy, fulfilled, productive, honest, decent and moral existence.

Personal truth: My life is happier, more fulfilled, more productive and carries more meaning as an atheist than it ever did as a Christian. Christianity was a falseness and hypocrisy that always sat wrong with me. It never rang true.

by Guest Fri May 17, 2013 11:44 pm

Shirina wrote:
These things:
Already debunked.

No, an ad nauseum refutation doesn't count.

I await your refutation of petitioners in Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963).
http://atheists.org/atheism

I await your refutation of Merriam-Webster Dictionary.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

I await your refutation of Atheist Empire.
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

by snowyflake Fri May 17, 2013 11:48 pm

I await your refutation of Matthew 19:21.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 4:24 am

snowyflake wrote:
I await your refutation of Matthew 19:21.

I await your refutation of that which you provided hereon in these posts:
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p630-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40653
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p660-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40654

I await your admission that you have provided seven atheists’ beliefs hereon, thereby providing conclusive proof that, by definition, (1) atheists believe, and (2) atheists are believers.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 4:28 am

Note that atheists’ beliefs referenced by me have been posted on Cutting Edge by Snowyflake (you):
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p630-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40653
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p660-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40654

Note that two atheists’ beliefs referenced by me have been posted hereon exactly as published online by Merriam-Webster Dictionary and Atheist Empire:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

We see here Snowyflake (you) unwilling to admit that she (you) posted atheists’ beliefs defined by and thus proving conclusively that (1) atheists believe, and (2) atheists are believers.

I am also a believer, a co-believer in many instances with many of my atheist brothers and sisters; in fact, some beliefs defined by petitioners in Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963) are identical to my beliefs, and some belief defined by petitioners in Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963) are nearly identical save for a differing word or two.

“Your petitioners are atheists and they define their beliefs as follows.”
http://atheists.org/atheism
http://atheists.org/atheism

“An atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.”
http://atheists.org/atheism
“An atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.”
http://atheists.org/atheism
“An atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.”
http://atheists.org/atheism
“An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church.”
http://atheists.org/atheism
“An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said.”
http://atheists.org/atheism
“He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.”
http://atheists.org/atheism
“He believes that we are our brother's keepers and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.”
http://atheists.org/atheism

I know YHVH and sometimes willingly follow Y’shua’s teachings. In accordance with this chosen commitment, my beliefs include include the following:

I believe that heaven is something for which we should work now, here on earth, for all men together to enjoy.
I believe that man gender inclusive receives help through prayer to find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.
I believe that in a knowledge of YHVH Elohim, knowledge of himself, and knowledge of his fellow man can man find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.
I believe that a hospital should be built in lieu of a cathedral or any other edifice, in harmony and resonance with Y’shua’s teachings to love our neighbors as ourselves by serving our neighbors’ needs.
I believe that a deed must be done instead in conjunction with a prayer said; accordingly, I believe that my personal prayers ought to focus upon helping me discover courage and strength to be a servant to those that I can serve.
I believe that we must rely upon YHVH Elohim and channel prayers into action in and for a troubled world, thereby actualizing the two great commandments as one as we express our love for YHVH Elohim (“the LORD our God”) through loving our neighbors as ourselves, in word and, more importantly, in deed, for we cannot love our Father without loving these, the least of Y’shua’s brothers, in word and deed.
I believe that we are our brothers’ keepers, and are keepers of our own lives, we love our neighbors as ourselves; moreover, I believe that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.

by Shirina Sat May 18, 2013 8:18 am

I await your refutation of

Of what, exactly?

I have shown you in clear, precise logic why atheists are not "believers" and your only refutation thus far has been to repeat ad nauseum that atheists are believers.

Atheism and Christianity are diametrically opposed - like wet and dry, hot and cold, tall and short. To claim that atheists and Christians are both "believers" is to claim that wet is the same as dry, hot is the same as cold, and tall is the same as short.

You cannot refute what I've said by simply restating the original argument that I've already refuted. It is circuitous logic and, dare I say, irritating.

by snowyflake Sat May 18, 2013 8:41 am

This means, at the end of the day, Christians (and all others who think atheists "believe") have backed themselves into an inescapable corner. As the saying goes, Christians are atheists to all other gods but theirs, which means they only "believe" that Ganesh, Kali, Allah, and Zeus do not exist. Which means maybe they do, and no Christian can claim with certainty that those other Gods do NOT exist. Except they DO claim they don't exist.

Either Christians have to admit that, Ganesh, say, might exist, which means their religion just might be false. OR ... they have to admit that atheists do not "believe" the Christian God exists any more than Christians "believe" that all other Gods don't exist.

I await the refutation of this. So far we just have a believer throwing his toys out of the crib and repeating a mantra of his religious conviction.

Christians are atheists. They are believers that all other gods don't exist.

by polyglide Sat May 18, 2013 10:42 am

Shirina, you do not understand what an athiest is, you do not understand you can know something but not understand it you cannot answer a question without going into a nonsensicle offshoot and yet pretend you are sane.

A Christian is one who believes in God, there is no other attachment which you try to include, you delude yourself going off the subject and attempt to justify your lack of understanding by a lot of nonsense.

by snowyflake Sat May 18, 2013 11:59 am

A Christian is one who believes in God, there is no other attachment which you try to include, you delude yourself going off the subject and attempt to justify your lack of understanding by a lot of nonsense.

An atheist reasonably concludes that no God/gods/god exist. A Christian believes in the Abrahamic God/god and disbelieves all other Gods/gods/god which makes you an atheist of these other Gods/gods/god.

So how does your brain logically justify the existence of this God against the existence of all other gods/god/Gods? Please explain the difference. Is it because 2 billion people believe in this God at this time in our history? So you think there is 'truth' in the high numbers of believers? Or is the promise of eternal life the deal breaker for you. If you took that out of the equation what reason would you have to believe?

I really would like an answer to this question. Imagine there is only this life, would you still believe in God? And if you say yes, I'd like to know why you would believe. If you say no, I will thank you for an honest answer.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 1:35 pm

Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p660-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40770
I await your refutation of
Of what, exactly?

This.

RockOnBrother wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p660-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40677

Atheist Empire
Atheist and Atheism Defined
English: atheist
Cambridge International:
someone who believes that God or gods do not exist
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

By definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist believes that God or gods do not exist, accordingly, by definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist is a believer that God or gods do not exist.

Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p660-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40694

Since Rock is indulging in the infinitum ad nauseum fallacy…

RockOnBrother wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p660-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#40719

I await your refutation of Atheist Empire.

by Tosh Sat May 18, 2013 2:32 pm

I smell burning, the meltdown grows nearer.

by Shirina Sat May 18, 2013 4:22 pm

Shirina, you do not understand what an athiest is

You have it exactly backwards. I know precisely what an atheist is. You and Rock are the ones trying to use obfuscation to paint atheists as "believers."

you delude yourself going off the subject and attempt to justify your lack of understanding by a lot of nonsense.

You always say something like this when you try to justify your own lack of understanding of what I'm saying. It's a distinct pattern of behavior I've noticed for quite some time. So, I'm going to make this very simple:

If atheists are merely "believers" and, therefore, could be wrong, then Christians are also merely "believers" and also could be wrong.

Except you can't admit that your beliefs might be false.

I can (and have) proven this with logic, but you either don't understand my argument - or you're pretending you don't understand it.

The same can be said for Rock, as well, who continues to post ad nauseum arguments to the point of coming dangerously close to violating the forum rules on spam.

by polyglide Mon May 20, 2013 1:32 pm

You are right Shirina, I also do not understand how you come to certain conclusions based on what is said rather than the interpretation you like to put on it.

An atheist can be a believer, they usually believe in everything that is wrong with the world and some also participate.

But the bottom line or the top as far as you are concerned is that an athiest does not believe in the existance of God, he may believe that there is no God but that is another matter and incidental to the meaning of an atheist.

by Tosh Wed May 22, 2013 4:43 pm

The same can be said for Rock, as well, who continues to post ad nauseum arguments to the point of coming dangerously close to violating the forum rules on spam.

But he never resorts to trolling or irritation because he loves you.

by oftenwrong Wed May 22, 2013 5:50 pm

To hate Jews is to hate God - Page 18 Humptytop

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."

by Tosh Wed May 22, 2013 10:21 pm

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.

According to wiki, an atheist rejects belief, its an absence of belief and they believe deities do not exist.

There are 3 senses mentioned, broad, narrow and inclusive, and surprise surprise Texas takes the narrow sense of the word,

In the narrow sense of the word an agnostic is someone who believes god's existence is unknowable, so an agnostic is a believer too, which is nonsense.

by Tosh Thu May 23, 2013 12:08 pm

In a world where disbelief is belief, in a world where personal truth is truth, in a world where proven truth is false, in a world where vowels offend invisible beings, in a world where burning bushes make butterflies...etc etc

Seriously folks, you can shove your religious deference up your nose, these people are in a world of their own and its a world away from reality and sanity.

by Shirina Thu May 23, 2013 8:16 pm

An atheist can be a believer, they usually believe in everything that is wrong with the world and some also participate.

LOL! Now that's just funny all things considered ...

... and consider these new videos:

by Guest Thu May 23, 2013 9:46 pm

Richard Dawkins at Reason Rally, Washington DC, 24 March 2012
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/HrC4rdF0KXU?ytsession=GbBs8Isl2nNjWZMOi1l2QSS9ACMuwEcPMugWidAxzRmObNWC05tc6zSJpPrtco6snhmgaYQtpjZCZrNNfLXK4rpsGlQxzHdKOO9PjwB23ExQrgoFCjd1YdaI8yWDB9aZ51VxGsYEaOg6ucQeUC5YFw

4:36-4:47, “Mock them. Ridicule them. In public.” 5:08-5:12, “… if necessary, need to be ridiculed with contempt.”

by polyglide Fri May 24, 2013 10:46 am

It is not religion that has caused all the worlds problems but the abuse and misuse of religion.

If everyone followed the Christian faith then there would be no problem.

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