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Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

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Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by bobby on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:24 pm

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KINGSTON, Jamaica (AP) - Jamaica has revived a reparations commission to research slavery's social and economic impact and examine whether the predominantly black Caribbean island should seek compensation or a formal apology from Britain to heal old wounds.
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Re: Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by Guest on Thu May 23, 2013 3:19 pm


Zong massacre
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Further reading

  • Account of Gregson v. Gilbert in Henry Roscoe, ed. (1831). Reports of Cases Argued and Determined in the Court of King's Bench 3. London. pp. 232–235Account of Gregson v. Gilbert in Henry Roscoe, ed. (1831). Reports of Cases Argued and Determined in the Court of King's Bench 3. London. pp. 232–235

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zong_massacre
Account of Gregson v. Gilbert in Henry Roscoe, ed. (1831). Reports of Cases Argued and Determined in the Court of King's Bench 3. London. pp. 232–235Account of Gregson v. Gilbert in Henry Roscoe, ed. (1831). Reports of Cases Argued and Determined in the Court of King's Bench 3. London. pp. 232–235

Gregson v. Gilbert (a).

This was an action on a policy of insurance, to recover the value of certain slaves thrown overboard for want of water. The declaration stated, that by peril of the seas, and contrary currents and other misfortunes, the ship was rendered foul and leaky, and was retarded in her voyage; and, by reason thereof, so much of the water on board the said ship, for her said voyage, was spent on board the said ship: that before her arrival at Jamaica-to wit, on, &c. a sufficient quantity of water did not remain on board the said ship for preserving the lives of the master and mariners belonging to the said ship, and of the negro slaves on board, for the residue of the said voyage; by reason whereof, during the said voyage, and before the arrival of the said ship at Jamaica-to wit, on, &c. and on divers days between that day and the arrival of the said ship at Jamaica-sixty negroes died for want of water for sustenance, and through thirst and frenzy occasioned thereby, threw themselves into the sea and were drowned; and the master and the mariners, for the preservation of their own lives, and the lives of the rest of the negroes, which for want of water they could not otherwise preserve, were obligated to throw overboard 150 other negroes.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-2kDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA232&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

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Re: Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by oftenwrong on Thu May 23, 2013 5:10 pm

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Re: Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by Guest on Thu May 23, 2013 8:38 pm

The Zong Massacre – a summary

On 29 November 1781, Captain Luke Collingwood of the British ship, Zong, ordered one-third of his cargo to be thrown overboard. That cargo was human – 133 African slaves bound for Jamaica. His motive – to collect the insurance. The case was brought to court – not for murder, but against the insurers who refused to pay up. This is the cruel story of the Zong Massacre.

… the Zong… was cruelly overcrowded, carrying 442 Africans, destined to become slaves, accompanied by 17 crew. The human cargo was manacled and packed so tightly, to have no room to move. But for the captain, Luke Collingwood, the more Africans he could squeeze in, the greater the margin of profit for both the ship’s owners and himself.

Planning to retire, [Collingwood] hoped for a generous bounty to help him in his retirement. The greater the number of fit slaves he delivered to Jamaica, the greater his share.

… the delivery of dead slaves would earn the shipowners nothing. If, however, the Africans were somehow lost at sea, then the shipowners’ insurance would cover the loss at £30 per head.

Thus, on 29 November, 54 sick slaves, mainly women and children, were dragged from below deck, unshackled (after all, why waste good manacles?) and heaved from the ship into the ocean. The following day, more were murdered. In the end, Collingwood had thrown 133 slaves to their deaths. Many struggled and the crew had to tie iron balls to their ankles. Another ten slaves threw themselves overboard and in what Collingwood described as an act of defiance.

http://www.historyinanhour.com/2011/11/29/the-zong-massacre-a-summary/
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Re: Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by oftenwrong on Thu May 23, 2013 10:21 pm

Not unlike the Friday night train from King's Cross to Edinburgh when the buffet car runs out of Tennent's.
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Re: Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by Guest on Fri May 24, 2013 5:43 am

The Zong Massacre (1781)

… Collingwood decided to “jettison” some of the cargo in order to save the ship and provide the ship owners the opportunity to claim for the loss on their insurance.

Upon the Zong’s arrival in Jamaica, James Gregson, the ship’s owner, filed an insurance claim for their loss. Gregson argued that the Zong did not have enough water to sustain both crew and the human commodities. The insurance underwriter, Thomas Gilbert, disputed the claim citing that the Zong had 420 gallons of water aboard when she was inventoried in Jamaica. A London court found in favour of the insurers…

[Abolitionist Granville] Sharp attempted to have criminal charges brought against the Captain, crew, and the owners but was unsuccessful. Great Britain's The Solicitor General, Justice John Lee, however, refused to take up the criminal charges claiming “What is this claim that human people have been thrown overboard? This is a case of chattels or goods. Blacks are goods and property; it is madness to accuse these well-serving honourable men of murder… The case is the same as if wood had been thrown overboard.”

http://www.blackpast.org/?q=gah/zong-massacre-1781
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Re: Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by Guest on Mon May 27, 2013 4:06 am


It is clear from recent material posted on this thread that, in 1781, the slave trade to Jamaica, and slavery in Jamaica, were recognized and supported by His Majesty’s Government in Great Britain. Great Britain’s The Solicitor General, Justice John Lee, said, “What is this claim that human people have been thrown overboard? This is a case of chattels or goods. Blacks are goods and property; it is madness to accuse these well-serving honourable men of murder… The case is the same as if wood had been thrown overboard”, indicating that His Majesty’s Government recognized and supported placing monetary value on slaves’ bodies and labor.
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t685p30-jamaica-ponders-compensation-claim-for-slavery#41062
http://www.blackpast.org/?q=gah/zong-massacre-1781

These slaves’ bodies and labor were stolen from their rightful owners, the enslaved human beings, by various persons and entities that profited therefrom, a fact verified that slaves were insurable as property, with value placed thereon by underwriters based upon expected profits to the body-and-labor stealers. Existence of original records from slavery times, verified by material posted hereon, means that it is possible to go (1) calculate and project reasonable estimated values of Jamaican slaves, (b) identify descendants of Jamaican slaves that are alive today, and (c) provide just monetary recompense to identified descendants of slaves for estimated 21st Century monetary value of the bodies and labor stolen from their ancestors.
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t685-jamaica-ponders-compensation-claim-for-slavery#41044
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-2kDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA232&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Her Majesty’s Government, due to its historical verified recognition and support of this heinous thievery of bodies and labor, has a moral duty to oversee this long overdue action.
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Re: Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by bobby on Mon May 27, 2013 3:39 pm

rockonbrother, With regards to compensation for slavery, just where do you start and where do you finish, Slavery didn't start in Africa which seems to me is the only slavery that seems to bother you. Also how did the slaves get into the hands of the slave traders, it was I believe African selling/trading African, so why don't you sort your own compensation out before bothering to get yet more hand outs to the least achieving race on the planet.
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Re: Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by Guest on Mon May 27, 2013 5:52 pm

bobby wrote:http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t685p30-jamaica-ponders-compensation-claim-for-slavery#41158

rockonbrother, With regards to compensation for slavery, just where do you start and where do you finish…

With regards to Jamaican slaves whose bodies and labor were stolen under the authority and protection of His Majesty’s Government, compensation to 21st Century descendants of these innocent men, women, and children begins with Her Majesty’s Government and ends with full and just recompense to these descendants.


Enslavement of African men, women, and children sold as chattel in Jamaica under the authority and protection of His Majesty’s Government started in Africa.

bobby wrote:http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t685p30-jamaica-ponders-compensation-claim-for-slavery#41158

… which seems to me is the only slavery that seems to bother you.

I do not care what “seems to” you.

bobby wrote:http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t685p30-jamaica-ponders-compensation-claim-for-slavery#41158

Also how did the slaves get into the hands of the slave traders…

Why did His Majesty’s Government authorize and protect slave traders?
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Re: Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by bobby on Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:15 pm

Why did His Majesty’s Government authorize and protect slave traders?

Evidence?
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Re: Jamaica ponders compensation claim for slavery

Post by boatlady on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:05 pm

Bobby, I think lots of Brits were slave traders back in the day.
I had a boyfriend from Bristol who told me most of the civic buildings etc were financed by the slave trade, which I think we in Britain only stopped in the 19th Century. (Sorry I'm a bit vague, and I know my boyfriend from Bristol is hardly an unimpeachable source)
Having said that - slave trading, as you've pointed out before, is an antique practice and was probably being practised in Africa already when the first slave traders from Europe and America arrived - all they did was to enable the practice to be carried out on a much larger scale.
I guess Rock's point about the inhumane practices involved with the wholesale export of slaves, and the fact that the men and women enslaved in this way were regarded as animals rather than human beings, has a lot of validity in terms of his and his forbears' life experiences and it would be natural to still feel angry about the abuses that took place in the past and the racism that still pervades society today.
Payment of compensation would be more or less impossible in my view, and anyway what's really needed is to confront and eliminate racism within our societies.
My grandfather went down the pit and died of mining associated lung disease - I don't want compensation - I want people to have safer working lives, because that's what makes sense in terms of moving on.

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