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Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

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Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by witchfinder on Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here is a news item from North Yorkshire which never made it onto the national headlines

A York-based practice has written to its patients offering them a range of minor treatments privately, claiming they are not funded by the local NHS.

Doctors' leaders said this could be the start of a worrying trend due to the squeeze on finances and NHS overhaul.

The letter, seen by the BBC, said local health chiefs had stopped funding a range of services, but added they could still have them done privately at a number of clinics, including one owned by the practice.

These included removing skin tags from £56.30 to treating benign tumours for £243.20.

Dr Richard Vautrey, of the British Medical Association, added: "The dire finances of many trusts means that many more NHS treatments are likely to become unavailable in the future".
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:38 pm

In both English and Scottish Law that "promise" probably comprises a False Bill of Sale.
But who're you gonna sue?

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"Something must be done!"

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:27 pm

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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by boatlady on Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:47 pm

A great many 'somethings' have been done - hence the mess we find ourselves in
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Clarkson: "It's cruel to let the NHS suffer like this"

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:49 pm

In today's Sunday Times, Jeremy (no, the other one this time) explains that the NHS must be scrapped completely and come up with something "that actually works". (As opposed to swanning around the world upsetting the natives, one supposes.)

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Well, he would say that, wouldn't he





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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by Ivan on Mon May 15, 2017 10:45 pm


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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by Ivan on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:05 pm


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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:53 am

You would need to have inexhaustible optimism to believe that the NHS is "safe in Tory hands".  They have been resisting socialized medical provision since 1945, and the Health Secretary has written a book describing how he proposes to replace it with private health insurance.  The amount of money involved makes an attractive honey-pot for speculators to buzz around.  Today's newspaper headline is typical:


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Logic suggests there may well be facts supporting the allegations of wasted money within the  NHS.  In such a sprawling and complicated organization it is unrealistic to imagine that everything is always going to be perfect.  Some waste is built-in for the security of all patients, e.g. by the destruction of drugs prescribed but not actually used.  Would anyone be comfortable with re-cycled medicines?  Every year thousands of patients simply fail to turn up for treatment, or fail to pursue a course of action recommended by Doctors.  It all represents waste, but whether it's avoidable waste may never be established.
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by Ivan on Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:52 am

Jeremy Hunt splashes £44,000 taxpayers' cash on a new toilet for his office

Hunt - the man demanding £22 billion in NHS cuts - has had a new £44,000 toilet and shower installed in his penthouse office. The cash has been splashed on a bathroom boasting floor-to-ceiling slate tiles and sensor-activated lights at the Department of Health’s new offices. The multi-millionaire health secretary’s 15ft by 8ft suite has lava tiles, vanity mirrors, recessed lighting, a designer toilet and a power shower. Its lighting system has been wired with sensors which automatically switch on when he walks in.

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Meanwhile:-

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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by trevorw2539 Yesterday at 3:49 pm

Purely as a matter of interest does anyone really think that the NHS and associated services are, and will be in the future, sustainable as free to all, tax paid services - regardless of which Government is in power.
I would be interested to hear the How? and Why? The population growth, improvements in treatments, medicines, prosthetics and general extention of living ages, would have astounded the people who set up the NHS.
Taxing the rich harder, higher Corporation tax, and the new (2018) off-shore tax evasion law, will not bring in sufficient to cover essential services - which include Police, Fire and defence and pensions. In a decade we will have more automation, more unemployed. New factories will employ modern methods, with less staff. All this will lead to less income tax. And if you die before the age of 100 the State will send your Tax forms - care of St Peter. Well, if you're going that way.

As one widower wrote about his deceased haridan wife

If she has gone to realms above
Farewell to peace and heavenly love
But if she's sought the lower level
God have mercy on the Devil.
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by oftenwrong Yesterday at 6:58 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:Purely as a matter of interest does anyone really think that the NHS and associated services are, and will be in the future, sustainable as free to all, tax paid services - regardless of which Government is in power.
I would be interested to hear the How? and Why? ....

Well that's certainly what Government would have us believe. "You can't have it because we can't afford it, go and play on the motorway!"

The cold hard reality is that there is no sensible alternative to a service which curates the Nation's health, otherwise you cut off your nose because you're suffering from 'flu. Doctors speak in an unflattering way of "The health of the herd." Bluntly, they're referring to the fact that money in the bank won't save you if there should be a return to the bad old days of The Plague/Black Death/Cholera/Typhoid/Pox/Tuberculosis/high infant mortality etcetera, etc.

How can we afford it? By efficient collection of tax liability under existing Law. Why? Make sure you are fit, if you live under the rule "Survival of the fittest."

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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by trevorw2539 Yesterday at 7:48 pm

How can we afford it? By efficient collection of tax liability under existing Law. Why? Make sure you are fit, if you live under the rule "Survival of the fittest."


If we collected ALL tax liability is it unlikely that this country could afford the NHS as it is. There are so many demands made on this country's tax collection. The demands exceed the income. 3 pence in the pound on ALL tax brackets is needed just to bring the NHS up to standard by 2020. How many people are prepared to pay an extra 3 pence? From then on the demand will increase year by year with a rising ageing population. There is coming a day when other means of taxation will be needed.
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by oftenwrong Yesterday at 8:53 pm

Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Well there's always wringing-hands as an alternative.

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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by trevorw2539 Yesterday at 10:57 pm

often wrong wrote:Well there's always wringing-hands as an alternative.

True, but I don't think that is likely to help.

There are only 3 things we can do. Live within our means. Borrow more money. Or use money from private sources. This country will never earn enough to maintain services as it has in the past. IMHO Brexit will do irreparable harm to the British Economy and we are beginning to see that already. We want trade agreements with countries who are already in trade blocks. And many countries will not trade with us to their detriment. This country is no longer British owned - and some of the foreign companies who trade through the City are already looking for offices elsewhere. Depending on Brexit conditions the British Bulldog is about to lose its teeth.
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

Post by Ivan Today at 12:11 am

trevorw2539. Firstly, I'd like to say how good it is to see you posting here these days - and it's good to see my tulips again!

Apart from the poor young lady who died, at least 19 people were injured in Charlottesville at the weekend, after which crowdfunding has been taking place to pay for their medical treatment. I hope we never get to that situation, but if the Tories stay in power long enough we probably will.

There are basically two systems of government in Western democracies – the American free market way and the European social democratic model. In general terms, Labour governments have tended to move us closer to the latter, while Tory governments, especially since Thatcher changed the Conservatives into right-wing radicals, have favoured the former. That’s really what Brexit is all about, and why May rushed off to hold hands with the odious Trump within a week of his inauguration.

State-provided healthcare is very much a part of what social democracy is all about, which is why Trump and his cronies so hate Obamacare. It’s also why the Tories voted against the establishment of the NHS in 1948, provoking Nye Bevan into calling them “lower than vermin”. Tory Oliver Letwin let slip in 2005 that there would be no NHS after five years of a majority Tory government. The present health secretary, who can find tens of thousands to squander on a luxury office bathroom for himself, was the co-author of a pamphlet advocating the destruction of the NHS. I’m afraid that putting Tories in charge of our health is about as wise as putting King Herod in charge of a crèche.

You make some valid points about the effects of Brexit being damaging, and about us living longer and developments in medicine and procedures being very expensive. However, an increasing population shouldn’t matter, because it should mean more people contributing the taxes and national insurance to pay for it. After the basic essentials of food, clothing and shelter, health and education should be the next most important considerations of the government of the sixth richest country in the world. It’s not a question of we can’t afford such essentials, we must. What’s the point of spending billions on nuclear weapons (which only an insane person would ever use) - supposedly to defend the population of this country - if we say we can’t provide them with the basic ‘defence’ against ill-health?

The government spends about £800 billion every year and it can always find money when it wants to – to bribe the DUP, to renovate Buckingham Palace, to give MPs and royals a whopping pay rise, to fund Liam Fox’s pointless jaunts around the world, even to pay for Jeremy Hunt’s bathroom. But it spends a smaller percentage of our GDP on health than countries such as France and Germany. Where there’s a will there’s a way, but when it comes to the NHS, the Tory will is to destroy it by stealth.
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

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