Atheism versus God

First topic message reminder :

It is Atheism against God but God is not against Atheism.
 
That is a one-sided sword which cuts only one way.
 
It is important to give a general definition of Atheism as like on Wikipedia HERE.
 
Atheism is a negative concept, as in saying "no" as in no God, no Deity, no conscious higher power, etc.
 
So just because some one hates Christianity then that is not Atheist, or hating the scary Muslims is not Atheist, as one must reject the presence or the reality of any God by any name or form.
 
I myself declare the real existence of the "Creator Father God" but to use other names for the "Theo or Thea" is fine with me.  
 
My view is that Atheism is simply a form of self-righteousness, because without the judgements of a God then people get to create our own righteousness, and that appears to be the true motivation for being an Atheist.
 

Well Heretic now we know what the p stands for in JP.   

stu wrote:Well Heretic now we know what the p stands for in JP.   

You're in fine fettle today, I take it that the anti-ciggie war is being won. Well done and keep it up.

Heretic

Antimatter has the effect on matter to destroy both itself and the matter.

What is left must be what both originated from.

If there is an equal amount of both in the universe and they came together then the residue would be that from which both originated.

Bellatori wrote:

polyglide wrote:... You take antimatter and matter, equal amounts of each when put together cancel each other out. If the universe is composed of an equal amount of each and they became together then the result would be the origin of both. The result of even a small quantity of both is the origin of both.

Please read this again carefully and see if you can put it in a way that I can understand. As of now I find this to be completely incomprehensible.

I can't tell you what a relief that is, I thought last night's debauchery had done irreparable damage to my noggin after reading it.  

Tosh wrote:Bellatori,

I have never met a creationist yet whose brain functions normally, polyglide is trying to put forward Kalam's cosmological argument, but doesn't understand it enough to do so in a manner a sane person can comprehend.

Think of polyglide spinning round the room like a demented dalek, screaming " something from nothing " " Exterminate " " Exterminate ".

That has actually reached a level I can understand, yey...

polyglide wrote:Antimatter has the effect on matter to destroy both itself and the matter.

Sort of... actually it leaves energy according to E-mc^2

polyglide wrote:What is left must be what both originated from.

Again sort of... it appears that matter/antimatter pairs can appear as from nothing. Experiment has verified this. The constraint appears to be the amount of energy/matter that is formed and the amount of time before they annihilate.

polyglide wrote:If there is an equal amount of both in the universe and they came together then the residue would be that from which both originated.

This was one of the great problems of cosmology. If matter and antimatter formed equally as the universe cooled then why is there not equal amounts of each now and why did they not self annihilate back to energy. How come we exist in a matter universe? This is a very good question and none of the answers are totally convincing BUT they are clearly getting there

Regardless of god's supposed disposition, care to tell me why he had to use a chimp DNA template to make humans, and why did he have to both create and destroy dinosaurs?

I know god works in mysterious ways, but would you trust your Doctor if he or she worked in mysterious ways?

Tosh wrote:I know god works in mysterious ways, but would you trust your Doctor if he or she worked in mysterious ways?

To me my doctor does work in mysterious ways as I have no idea how he diagnoses me in one way rather than another or why he chooses to treat me with one treatment over another. I do have the reassurance that he belongs to a professional body that he has to account to that does have tremendous expertise in these things and that organisation has my trust.

Heretic

Heretic wrote:

Tosh wrote:I know god works in mysterious ways, but would you trust your Doctor if he or she worked in mysterious ways?

To me my doctor does work in mysterious ways as I have no idea how he diagnoses me in one way rather than another or why he chooses to treat me with one treatment over another. I do have the reassurance that he belongs to a professional body that he has to account to that does have tremendous expertise in these things and that organisation has my trust.

Heretic

My doctor uses a computer when he needs to find something out that does not immediately spring to his mind. I would be very concerned if he simply stared into the heavens and waited for 'divine inspiration' instead.

Heretic,

Stop being difficult, you know enough to question why your Doctor is sawing your leg off for a sore eye, as one should question why God sat twiddling his thumbs while Hitler gassed 6 million of his chosen people.

I found it rather perplexing when the girl abducted and kept as a sex slave in America for 12 years escaped, some described her escape as a miracle from God, pity he waited 12 years is all I can say.

Tosh wrote:...I found it rather perplexing when the girl abducted and kept as a sex slave in America for 12 years escaped, some described her escape as a miracle from God, pity he waited 12 years is all I can say.

I'm with you on this. I always find it ironic when I hear someone say 'Thank God your safe'. Personally I would prefer they thanked the firemen who risked their lives in the burning building etc. As you say, surely the omnipotent, omniscient and beneficent God could have whispered in their ear that fleeing was a good idea or that as they walked around Tesco could have said "Why not buy a smoke alarm". Somehow he seems to overlook these little matters. Not a great deal of attention to detail for an omnipotent deity.

Heretic wrote:

Tosh wrote:I know god works in mysterious ways, but would you trust your Doctor if he or she worked in mysterious ways?

To me my doctor does work in mysterious ways as I have no idea how he diagnoses me in one way rather than another or why he chooses to treat me with one treatment over another. I do have the reassurance that he belongs to a professional body that he has to account to that does have tremendous expertise in these things and that organisation has my trust.

Heretic

Though of course we do have the peace of mind that the mystery of how a Dr arrives at his diagnosis is only indicative of our ignorance, and that if we had the time and inclination we could open a book and find out. Where as the statement god works in mysterious ways, as well being entirely unevidenced, is simple and obvious deflection to avoid answering any awkward questions.

Tosh wrote:but would you trust your Doctor if he or she worked in mysterious ways?

My neurological condition works in mysterious ways considering all of my doctors are mystified over why I have it.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:and that if we had the time and inclination we could open a book and find out.

A lot of people who have chronic or serious illnesses do indeed end up becoming experts on that illness. Doesn't mean they can perform surgery, of course, but they end up knowing every cause, every symptom, and every possible treatment.

Bellatori wrote:I always find it ironic when I hear someone say 'Thank God your safe'. Personally I would prefer they thanked the firemen who risked their lives in the burning building etc

But ... but ... God gave those firemen and doctors and policemen and even the average good samaratin the courage and strength to rescue someone! I thought everyone knew that.

I remember a few days after 9/11, the big headline was about the guy who said, "Let's roll" just before the fourth hijacked plane went down in Pennsylvania. When it appeared that the "Let's Roll" guy led a fightback against the terrorists, his wife told the media, "God meant for my husband to be on that plane."

I had to choke down bile when I read that. Only an idiot of the highest caliber would ever think that God wanted the fourth plane to crash into an empty field while apparently allowing the other three planes to crash into densely populated buildings. Gee, I dunnae ... I guess God got a big kick out of the WTC and Pentagon crashes, but three was enough. The Muslims overplayed their hand, it would seem, by hijacking one too many planes.

I can see God having a talk with Osama bin Laden:

Osama: "Please? C'mon, God, lemme do four crashes."
God: "I told you five times already. You're only allowed three crashes, so you better kill as many as you can with just three planes."
Osama: "But if you're really mad at America and using Muslims to demonstrate your Christian wrath, just think how many more I could kill ..."
God: "Who said I'm angry with America? They thump the Bible more than any other country. I would not smack around my own meal ticket."
Osama: "What about the Holocaust? You slapped around your --"
God: "Shut up."
Osama: "Sorry. (pause). C'mon Yahweh, just one more plane. That will ensure all of those American gays and liberals and feminists and atheists will know you mean business."
God: "Me-dammit, for the last time, NO! And just to make sure, I'm putting that woman's husband on that fourth flight, just in case you get any ideas."

Me-dammit That's funny
 

Shirina did you read my post about the people with neuralgia that are being treated with surgery? Not sure they could do the same for your condition but it is worth looking into.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/trigeminal-neuralgia/pages/treatment.aspx

Not the same condition but maybe it will lead to something. Good luck.

Does Dr Sheldon actually understand English and what RESIDUE MEANS.

I did not say anything comes from nothing, I said that what is left after the antimatter and matter had anhiliated each must be from where both originated.

I lesson in reading what is written would maybe help him.

I said that what is left after the antimatter and matter had anhiliated each must be from where both originated.

.......and why exactly should we presume the origin of this RESIDUE has anything to do with a Bronze Age myth?

Well I understand what residue means, another word for contents of the bible is it not?  

polyglide wrote:Does Dr Sheldon actually understand English and what RESIDUE MEANS.

I lesson in reading what is written would maybe help him.

 

The good old Irony overload again Sheldon.  

There is no doubt whatsoever that all things originate from energy of one kind or another, the atom bomb etc; proves atoms are created from energy etc;

Whenever an experiment is carried out regarding matter, energy is involved.

The basic problem is, where did the energy originate.

And if we found that out we would then have to find out where that which the energy came from originated.

The only explanation is that there are far superior powers involved than those that man can comprehend.

There is no possibility that man has either the time or the resourses to solve the problems involved.

Man if left to his own devices will be the cause of his demise.

God has shown the way and man in general is too full of self to admit that there are not better and far superior entities than himself.

polyglide wrote:There is no doubt whatsoever ...

You are making the assumption that you cannot get something from nothing. Amazingly modern physics KNOWS that that is not true and we can get something from nothing. Once you understand that then your whole chain of premises and logic fails.

There is no evidence that you can get something from nothing

The assumption is that when antimatter and matter destroy each other nothing is left but that is not so, energy of some kind or another is always a product.

polyglide wrote:There is no evidence that you can get something from nothing

The assumption is that when antimatter and matter destroy each other nothing is left but that is not so, energy of some kind or another is always a product.

Sorry but that is simply ignorance on your part. You simply do not know enough about physiscs....

I beg of you for your sanity if you have any polyglide, do not take on Bellatori when it comes to physics. You will only end up on the losing side, EASILY.  

You simply do not know enough about physiscs....

.....and biology, and chemistry, and geology, and anatomy, and paleontology and genetics.

The guy is a dunce dancing for rain.

Hi Tosh all the time wearing a brolly on his head.   

polyglide wrote:There is no doubt whatsoever that all things originate from energy of one kind or another, the atom bomb etc; proves atoms are created from energy etc;

Whenever an experiment is carried out regarding matter, energy is involved.

The basic problem is, where did the energy originate.

And if we found that out we would then have to find out where that which the energy came from originated.

The only explanation is that there are far superior powers involved than those that man can comprehend.

There is no possibility that man has either the time or the resourses to solve the problems involved.

Man if left to his own devices will be the cause of his demise.

God has shown the way and man in general is too full of self to admit that there are not better and far superior entities than himself.

God of the gaps.

Bellatori wrote:

polyglide wrote:There is no doubt whatsoever ...

You are making the assumption that you cannot get something from nothing. Amazingly modern physics KNOWS that that is not true and we can get something from nothing. Once you understand that then your whole chain of premises and logic fails.

What about magic apples, and talking snakes? can you get those from nothing? That's the bit where Polyglide loses me, where he leaps from broad and often inaccurate assertions about scientific knowledge with a giant shoehorn, and tries to wedge in his ancient superstition about pregnant virgins, and superhuman carpenters.

stu wrote:I beg of you for your sanity if you have any polyglide, do not take on Bellatori when it comes to physics. You will only end up on the losing side, EASILY.  

It's no contest stu, Polyglide has the advantage of being able to discard any evidence that doesn't support his beliefs, you can't compete against that.

Plus Sheldon, polyfilla has the advantage of being totally ignorant.

Ignorance is not recognising intelligence when it is evident.

There is no evidence whatsoever that something can come from nothing.

I could quote all the latest scientific papers on the dark matter, the latest from the collider and everyone who has commented on the matter in question but that would neither prove nor disprove my understanding of the matter.

I could say that your comments are based not on your knowledge but on just quoting others.

You obviously do not recognise common sense nor have the ability to consider facts rather than fiction.

Time for another one of these:

You get dafter as time goes on.

I was implying your previous post was extremely ironic.

Surely you mean logic.

No Dan always means what he says, don't you Dan. 

Extreme logic from Stu

Then he is great need of help.

Look in the mirror polyglide,then the person who needs help will be seen.