Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this politician serious?

by Greatest I am Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:17 am

Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this politician serious?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H2ED8A8RXeY

The apostle’s creed shows that Christianity is based on having to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that the guilty should be forgiven if a suitable human sacrifice is made to God.

I suggest that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. Immoral regardless of the victim volunteering or not which is not the case with Jesus.

That is one of many moral tenets that have caused secular governments to reject Judeo-Christian culture and values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

The bible is a compilation of evil acts by a satanic God and no moral man would every push to have Judeo-Christian culture and values implemented as our law. The U.S. is the closes to that ideal and their jail statistics are the most dismal in the free world.

Would you promote Judeo-Christian culture and values?

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:19 am

GIA wrote: The bible is a compilation of evil acts by a satanic God and no moral man would every push to have Judeo-Christian culture and values implemented as our law.

Well it's a complete fiction, created by bronze age humans, if the morals measured up to contemporary society then they might have some credence as being divinely inspired. However they don't and are badly dated because they are entirely human in origin.

I suspect if the human species lives long enough some of our own actions will not be viewed favourably by future generations.

by polyglide Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:50 pm

Dr. Sheldon,
Look at the ten commandments and tell me the world would not be a better place if we all adopted them.

Also give me a better alternative.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:21 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
Look at the ten commandments and tell me the world would not be a better place if we all adopted them.

Also give me a better alternative.

Presumptuously arrogant as ever, I had memorised them over 40 years ago thank you, and since you ask then no, I don;t the world would a better place if we adopted them as most of them are ridiculous nonsense about superstitious beliefs in deities. So apart from having the common sense not to steel lie and murder, all of which predicate Judeo-Christian attempts to pretend they invented them in just about every human society that ever existed they're just mumbo jumbo hokum.

Now perhaps you'd like to address my post above? As you've again completely ignore the content, and it's getting to be a very tedious theme in your relentless apologetics. So what rational reason can you give for a deity that is purportedly omniscient and omnipotent communicating such a collection of morally redundant, and demonstrably erroneous fairy tales, that read exactly as we'd expect a collection of myths created entirely by ignorant superstitious humans from that period?

Since you asked I'd say a better alternative would be universal basic human rights, and an end to basing our interaction and treatment of others on ancient superstitions and tribal partisan politics based on a mad rush to grab and consume everything we can lay our hands on.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:33 am

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
Look at the ten commandments and tell me the world would not be a better place if we all adopted them.

Also give me a better alternative.

Presumptuously arrogant as ever, I had memorised them over 40 years ago thank you, and since you ask then no, I don't think the world would a better place if we adopted them as most of them are ridiculous nonsense about superstitious beliefs in deities. So apart from having the common sense not to steal lie and murder, all of which pre-date Judeo-Christian attempts to pretend they invented them in just about every human society that ever existed, then they're just mumbo jumbo hokum.

Now perhaps you'd like to address my post above? As you've again completely ignore the content, and it's getting to be a very tedious theme in your relentless apologetics. So what rational reason can you give for a deity that is purportedly omniscient and omnipotent communicating such a collection of morally redundant, and demonstrably erroneous fairy tales, that read exactly as we'd expect a collection of myths created entirely by ignorant superstitious humans from that period?

Since you asked I'd say a better alternative would be universal basic human rights, and an end to basing our interaction and treatment of others on ancient superstitions and tribal partisan politics based on a mad rush to grab and consume everything we can lay our hands on.

Can't edit this so have re-posted it. Predictive text on phone and a rush of blood are getting the blame.

by polyglide Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:52 am

Dr Sheldon.
A rush of blood, I would advise a visit to a Doctor.

My reasoning is based on there being no rational alternative.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:20 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr Sheldon.
A rush of blood, I would advise a visit to a Doctor.

My reasoning is based on there being no rational alternative.

Your opinion is based on unevidenced bronze age superstition.

The alternative to that is reason, that requires evidence. The best method for researching gathering and scrutinising evidence is empirical science.

Creationism has none, it's not succeeded in getting a single one of its claims passed scientific scrutiny. You want to dishonestly ignore this, but no one is fooled.

Your wild subjective and rather silly claims for "evidence" are simply a smoke screen. Again no one is fooled.

Have you managed to find one single piece of evidence for creationism that has been peer reviewed and validated by science yet? Or are you finally ready to show some integrity and admit there is none?

by polyglide Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:37 pm

DR Sheldon,
Creation is evident every day and every second, most of which can be fully explained.

Just as there are numerous things we can see in the universe that still need an explanation.

The only reason I cannot explain creation as a means of life, is, because I am unaware of the capabilities necessary to do so.

You can agree to disagree, however, the fact remains we are here and there must be both a reason and a means.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:23 pm

polyglide wrote:DR Sheldon,
Creation is evident every day and every second,
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:No it isn't, that's just yet another un-evidenced claim.

most of which can be fully explained.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Subjective explanations are not evidence either, creationism has never managed to get a single shred of evidence validated scientifically, yet science has been used repeatedly, and is still being used, to validate evolution.

The only reason I cannot explain creation as a means of life, is, because I am unaware of the capabilities necessary to do so.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:That's irrelevant, as I keep pointing out creationism has no scientific basis whatsoever, but claiming you don't know how something works is hardly a good start.

You can agree to disagree,
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:I do, but this also is irrelevant, as it's science that has proved evolution, and debunked the biblical myth of Genesis and creationism. So my opinion like your is moot.

however, the fact remains we are here and there must be both a reason and a means.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Well not knowing something proves nothing, and I'm not sure there must be a reason, you seem to be making ye another un-evidenced assumption based on your subjective personal beliefs. Either way you're basing your claim on not knowing something, so again Hitchen's razor applies, and your claim can be dismissed as it is presented without evidence. You should know this as well, if as you claim you are an expert in debating.

by Greatest I am Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:14 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
GIA wrote: The bible is a compilation of evil acts by a satanic God and no moral man would every push to have Judeo-Christian culture and values implemented as our law.

Well it's a complete fiction, created by bronze age humans, if the morals measured up to contemporary society then they might have some credence as being divinely inspired. However they don't and are badly dated because they are entirely human in origin.

I suspect if the human species lives long enough some of our own actions will not be viewed favourably by future generations.

Nor present ones.

I think we live with a silent majority of non-believers that only a crisis will bring together. As a religionist, that is not my favorite position but if religions cannot do better then we or they deserve to die.

I think if push ever comes to shove then all the Gods would be seen as the myths that they are. People are dull sometimes but not stupid. That is why the churches are empty.

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:23 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
Look at the ten commandments and tell me the world would not be a better place if we all adopted them.

Also give me a better alternative.

Good buddy.

Have you forgotten that Jesus made it two?

Are you familiar with Karen Armstrong? Her movement has not.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:28 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr Sheldon.
A rush of blood, I would advise a visit to a Doctor.

My reasoning is based on there being no rational alternative.

Seems that at least 70% of us are rational and if you took the believers that do not really believe in to account, it would be much higher. You are in a small minority. afraid

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:32 pm

polyglide wrote:DR Sheldon,
Creation is evident every day and every second, most of which can be fully explained.

Just as there are numerous things we can see in the universe that still need an explanation.

The only reason I cannot explain creation as a means of life, is, because I am unaware of the capabilities necessary to do so.

You can agree to disagree, however, the fact remains we are here and there must be both a reason and a means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo&feature=em-hot

Stephen Fry has an interesting view of how God creates.

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:55 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
GIA wrote: The bible is a compilation of evil acts by a satanic God and no moral man would every push to have Judeo-Christian culture and values implemented as our law.

Well it's a complete fiction, created by bronze age humans, if the morals measured up to contemporary society then they might have some credence as being divinely inspired. However they don't and are badly dated because they are entirely human in origin.

I suspect if the human species lives long enough some of our own actions will not be viewed favourably by future generations.

Nor present ones.

I think we live with a silent majority of non-believers that only a crisis will bring together. As a religionist, that is not my favorite position but if religions cannot do better then we or they deserve to die.

I think if push ever comes to shove then all the Gods would be seen as the myths that they are. People are dull sometimes but not stupid. That is why the churches are empty.

Regards
DL

The problem with your claim is that the majority of the world's population are theists. Making people believe fictions and absurdities is easy, humans have a propensity for superstition. Most of the world lives in poverty and ignorance, this will have to change before there is any hope of diminishing the hold of superstition.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
polyglide wrote:DR Sheldon,
Creation is evident every day and every second, most of which can be fully explained.

Just as there are numerous things we can see in the universe that still need an explanation.

The only reason I cannot explain creation as a means of life, is, because I am unaware of the capabilities necessary to do so.

You can agree to disagree, however, the fact remains we are here and there must be both a reason and a means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo&feature=em-hot

Stephen Fry has an interesting view of how God creates.

Regards
DL

"Bone cancer in children, what's that about? How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault. It' not right, it's utterly utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious mean minded stupid god, who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain, that's what I'd say."

I can't disagree with him, if any of the monotheistic gods were real then that's a fair response.

"Insects, whose whole life cycle is to burrow into the eyes of children and make them blind, to eat their way out through the eyes."

If all life is an endless indifferent struggle to reproduce and evolve then this at least makes sense, if it was created by a being with omnipotence then that's the most appalling evil and no sane decent person would worship such a being, it's repulsive.

by polyglide Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:38 am

Dr. Sheldon,
You have no real appreciation of what Christians believe.

I would agree with you without a doubt if God was responsible for all the ills of the world.

Read Mathew.

God is not in charge of the world at the present time.

Do you think for one minute that I would agree with a creator responsible for all the ills of mankind?

Man himself can be blamed for most of the ills, Satan will just go along with things that are going his way and mankind is making a good job of doing so.

There is no doubt that, in my opinion, God originally created all things, however, he also created those with powers of creation themselves and these powers, having been abused, result in many of the things we feel disgusting.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:11 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
You have no real appreciation of what Christians believe.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:I beg to differ, I used to be one actually.

I would agree with you without a doubt if God was responsible for all the ills of the world. Read Mathew. God is not in charge of the world at the present time.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:The Christian god is claimed to be omnipotent, claiming therefore that the omnipotent creator of everything is "not responsible" for how it turns out is absurd. Just as it is absurd to claim to believe in benevolent omnipotent deity, then make the ludicrous claim it's not in charge.

It is again worth noting that your bare claims are not troubled by any attempt at evidence - Hitchen's razor applies, for someone who claims to be an expert debater you fail to realise you are using this logical fallacy quite a bit.

Do you think for one minute that I would agree with a creator responsible for all the ills of mankind?
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:I don't make guesses, if you think an omnipotent creator exists then it's axiomatic that such a being would be culpable for what it creates. To suggest otherwise is absurdly illogical.

Man himself can be blamed for most of the ills,
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Yes indeed, almost as if there is no superhuman power, odd coincidence that. Well odd for theists anyway, it just fits all the evidence as far as I can see. Though of course "IF" you were right then it's your god that created cancer, malaria, AIDS, Polio, motor neurone disease and leprosy to name just a few, though in direct contradiction to your lazy un-evidenced claim it is mankind that will cure them if possible, using empirical science not hokum superstition.

Satan will just go along with things that are going his way and mankind is making a good job of doing so.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Hitchen's razor - Hitchens's razor is an epistemological razor which asserts that the burden of proof in a debate (the onus) lies with whoever makes the (greater) claim; if this burden is not then met, the claim is unfounded and its opponents do not need to argue against it.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

So you know what I will do with your hokum about demons, and devils, and hobgoblins?

There is no doubt that, in my opinion, God originally created all things,
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Hitchen's razor!!! Wooosh!

however, he also created those with powers of creation themselves and these powers, having been abused, result in many of the things we feel disgusting.

Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:....and Hitchen's razor....

by polyglide Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:07 am

DR. Sheldon,
I have given the following previously:-

A person makes a perfect machine and tells the buyer exactly what he/she has to do to make it long lived and kept in perfect order, the purchaser ignores the instructions and the machine breaks down.

You cannot blame the maker, the purchaser had a choice, just as mankind was given a choice by God.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:27 pm

polyglide wrote:DR. Sheldon,
I have given the following previously:- A person makes a perfect machine
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Stupid analogy as a person is neither omniscient nor omnipotent, it's like blaming a slug for being squashed under the foot of a human who deliberately steps on it.
and tells the buyer exactly what he/she has to do to make it long lived and kept in perfect order,
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Now that's hilarious, just where are these "exact" instructions? Don't tell me they're in the bible right? A couple of points then 1) why did your deity wait until just a few thousand years ago to produce these "instructions" when humans have been around for approx 200K years? 2) why are the instructions replete with erroneous myths and palpable absurdities, not to mention all the other religions that make exactly the same claim you're making here, also with zero evidence like your own religion?
the purchaser ignores the instructions and the machine breaks down. You cannot blame the maker, the purchaser had a choice,
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Not if the deity that made the "machine" is omniscient, any choice we appear to have is a complete illusion, that's the paradox of your religion's claims for an omnisicent creator, it appears you've not really given this much thought at all.
just as mankind was given a choice by God.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Leaving aside that omniscience negates any choice, I could just reiterate that your Deity kept these instructions to itself for almost all of human history, some 200K years, only putting in an appearance a few thousand years ago.

This is absurdly illogical, as I showed in my last post. Christianity claims it's god created everything, and is both omnipotent and omniscient, to then claim humans are in any way culpable for things like the suffering of predation, for parasitic organisms, or for terrible diseases is laughably absurd. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.

It seems we can add the words omniscient and omniscient to the list of words whose definitions you simply can't fathom. If such a deity existed and humans make the wrong choices as you claim, then it has to be because your deity wants it that way, otherwise the only other choice is that it doesn't exist as described.

by polyglide Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:04 pm

DR. Sheldon,
Read ORT for the meaning and how to make different useage of words.

Of course a machine is not a living thing, I am realy pleased that at least you can grasp that.

The example I gave is a perfect representation of why manking has gone wrong and that it is entirely of his own making.

You are totally unable to grasp the obvious at the expense of the ridiculous.

by polyglide Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:07 pm

nanking just to give you something to moan about.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:31 pm

polyglide wrote:DR. Sheldon,
Read ORT for the meaning and how to make different useage of words.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:No thanks, childish and dishonest semantics are not my thing.

Of course a machine is not a living thing, I am realy pleased that at least you can grasp that.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:It is you not me that has continually tried to claim they evolve in the same way as organic life, so this childish lie can be seen by everyone for what it is.

The example I gave is a perfect representation of why manking has gone wrong and that it is entirely of his own making.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:What is manking? How has it "gone wrong"? What evidence have you that it's "going wrong" is entirely of it's own making?

You really do think you can claim anything you like don't you, bizarre. Do you really think plucking ludicrous claims out of thin air is expert debating, that's delusional.

You are totally unable to grasp the obvious at the expense of the ridiculous.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Yes you're a genius and I'm just struggling in your wake, but let's see if I can piece it together. It's OBVIOUS to everyone but you that your posts are utterly RIDICULOUS.

by polyglide Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:39 am

Dr. Sheldon,
If that be so, then they are as dim as you.

I have never claimed anything other, regarding evolution, than it occurs in nearly every aspect of life and is not in any way confined to Darwin, evolution was taking place before Darwin used the word and most people[not the hydrocephalus of course] were well aware of what it meant.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:09 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
If that be so, then they are as dim as you.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Childish ad hominem, grow up.
I have never claimed anything other, regarding evolution, than it occurs in nearly every aspect of life and is not in any way confined to Darwin, evolution was taking place before Darwin used the word and most people[not the hydrocephalus of course] were well aware of what it meant.

Who said evolution started after Darwin published his scientific findings?

So another lie you've made up to cover your blushes over your asinine attempts to draw an analogous connection between Darwinian evolution and man made machines. I knew creationist were stupid but you're posts are exceeding even my expectations.

Do you actually have anything of substance to offer or are childish insults, constant ad hominem, and ludicrous superstitious myths to be it?

by boatlady Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:26 pm

Could we try to keep the tone a little pleasanter, please?

If you can't manage without insulting each other, I would suggest the discussion is a bit pointless.

I may be wrong, but I think a discussion is meant to be a civilised exchange of views on an issue - not a slanging match

by Greatest I am Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:32 am

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
GIA wrote: The bible is a compilation of evil acts by a satanic God and no moral man would every push to have Judeo-Christian culture and values implemented as our law.

Well it's a complete fiction, created by bronze age humans, if the morals measured up to contemporary society then they might have some credence as being divinely inspired. However they don't and are badly dated because they are entirely human in origin.

I suspect if the human species lives long enough some of our own actions will not be viewed favourably by future generations.

Nor present ones.

I think we live with a silent majority of non-believers that only a crisis will bring together. As a religionist, that is not my favorite position but if religions cannot do better then we or they deserve to die.

I think if push ever comes to shove then all the Gods would be seen as the myths that they are. People are dull sometimes but not stupid. That is why the churches are empty.

Regards
DL

The problem with your claim is that the majority of the world's population are theists. Making people believe fictions and absurdities is easy, humans have a propensity for superstition. Most of the world lives in poverty and ignorance, this will have to change before there is any hope of diminishing the hold of superstition.

Poverty is important. No argument.

I do not believe the world when it says it believes in God.

I believe that most just follow custom and tradition. That or explain all the various offshoot cults to the mainstream religions and why a map of belief follows more custom and traditional lines than religious lines.

Further, some countries show in the 90% for belief but only about 4 % for those who ever enter a church.

If they believe as they say they believe then you would think that they would walk their talk.

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:38 am

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
polyglide wrote:DR Sheldon,
Creation is evident every day and every second, most of which can be fully explained.

Just as there are numerous things we can see in the universe that still need an explanation.

The only reason I cannot explain creation as a means of life, is, because I am unaware of the capabilities necessary to do so.

You can agree to disagree, however, the fact remains we are here and there must be both a reason and a means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo&feature=em-hot

Stephen Fry has an interesting view of how God creates.

Regards
DL

"Bone cancer in children, what's that about? How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault. It' not right, it's utterly utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious mean minded stupid god, who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain, that's what I'd say."

I can't disagree with him, if any of the monotheistic gods were real then that's a fair response.

"Insects, whose whole life cycle is to burrow into the eyes of children and make them blind, to eat their way out through the eyes."

If all life is an endless indifferent struggle to reproduce and evolve then this at least makes sense, if it was created by a being with omnipotence then that's the most appalling evil and no sane decent person would worship such a being, it's repulsive.

You see 20/20 on this.

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:42 am

polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
You have no real appreciation of what Christians believe.

I would agree with you without a doubt if God was responsible for all the ills of the world.

Read Mathew.

God is not in charge of the world at the present time.

Do you think for one minute that I would agree with a creator responsible for all the ills of mankind?

Man himself can be blamed for most of the ills, Satan will just go along with things that are going his way and mankind is making a good job of doing so.

There is no doubt that, in my opinion, God originally created all things, however, he also created those with powers of creation themselves and these powers, having been abused, result in many of the things we feel disgusting.

You ignore that the nature that man has that you seem to hate was created by your God.

We are, as scriptures say, his perfect works.

Why do you criticise what your God has created? Does the Bible not say that we are greater than the angels?

What you see as disgusting, God would have to see as perfect.

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:48 am

boatlady wrote:Could we try to keep the tone a little pleasanter, please?

If you can't manage without insulting each other, I would suggest the discussion is a bit pointless.

I may be wrong, but I think a discussion is meant to be a civilised exchange of views on an issue - not a slanging match

Having intelligent discussions with idol worshipers is always hard.

Literalists begin the day with belief in so many miracles that it is impossible to talk reality to them.

Note how our friend thinks that Go9d cannot get involved with us yet allows Satan, with her God given powers to deceive, can.

If that is not a double moral standard then ------

All Christians have a double moral standard where they forgive their God for what they condemn in men.

Regards
DL

by polyglide Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:53 pm

Dr. Sheldon,
I have given you all the references as to the present situation between God and Satan.

Please read all that Mathew has to say.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:05 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
I have given you all the references as to the present situation between God and Satan.

Please read all that Mathew has to say.

I believe I've already made it perfectly clear I have no interest in your proselytising. If you wish to preach then I suggest you either got to church or get a soap box. This thread has a topic, if you have anything salient to say then I'll read it and respond if I am minded to do so.

by polyglide Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:27 pm

Dr. Sheldon,
It is not I that is blaming God for matters, it is you, on a regular basis and it is therefore my right to put you right.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:38 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
It is not I that is blaming God for matters, it is you, on a regular basis and it is therefore my right to put you right.

I can no more blame a deity I don't believe in than I can blame a unicorn for messing on my lawn. So no, I have not blamed an imaginary deity for anything. Satan is as much a fiction as all deities are, there is no real evidence for any of them.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:43 pm

As far as the thread is concerned I think it's a perfectly valid question to ask why we should embrace a religion that has so much nefariously immoral lessons in it's the pages of it's biblical narrative?

I't's also perfectly reasonable to ask why we should embrace a religion that has committed untold atrocities from the crusades to the torture and murder of 'witches' when it held real power and was not offering it's religion as a choice.

by oftenwrong Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:40 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:As far as the thread is concerned I think it's a perfectly valid question to ask why we should embrace a religion that has so much nefariously immoral lessons in it's the pages of it's biblical narrative? ....

Is that sentence also available in English?

Just askin'

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:02 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:As far as the thread is concerned I think it's a perfectly valid question to ask why we should embrace a religion that has so much nefariously immoral lessons in it's the pages of it's biblical narrative? ....

Is that sentence also available in English?

Just askin'

I missed a comma out, but it doesn't seem that bad to me? Which part is troubling you? I see I put an extra word (it's) in by mistake, mea culpa. it should read as follows:

As far as the thread is concerned, I think it's a perfectly valid question to ask why we should embrace a religion that has so much nefariously immoral lessons in the pages of it's biblical narrative?

Hope this massive error is now cleared up.

by snowyflake Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:45 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
It is not I that is blaming God for matters, it is you, on a regular basis and it is therefore my right to put you right.

I don't think Sheldon is blaming 'god' for anything. We are both atheists so for us god does not exist. We try to speak to you on your terms. You believe god exists so we try to to talk to you in terms of how god is portrayed in the various holy texts scattered around the world in the various different religions. For you, this is christianity and the bible is the word of god to you. For us, the bible is a mishmash of previous religions and superstitious beliefs hacked together. Jesus may not even have been a real person. You have no proof that he was any more than you have proof of the existence of god.

I'm happy for you to believe what you like, polyglide. It's a free country and people ought to be free to practice whatever superstition suits them. So long as you don't impose it on others or expect the government to give your religious group or other religious groups special favours (like faith schools!). However, you, as a christian, do not extend that right to others. Even if you were to be tolerant enough to tell Sheldon and I that we can think what we like, in your heart of hearts, you think that we are going to hell. Now, if you think of it in that context, that is a really wicked thing to think of another human being.

Atheists question this type of religious logic. There isn't an iota of christian love in that kind of thinking about another human being.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:51 pm

snowyflake wrote:
polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
It is not I that is blaming God for matters, it is you, on a regular basis and it is therefore my right to put you right.

I don't think Sheldon is blaming 'god' for anything. We are both atheists so for us god does not exist. We try to speak to you on your terms. You believe god exists so we try to to talk to you in terms of how god is portrayed in the various holy texts scattered around the world in the various different religions. For you, this is christianity and the bible is the word of god to you. For us, the bible is a mishmash of previous religions and superstitious beliefs hacked together. Jesus may not even have been a real person. You have no proof that he was any more than you have proof of the existence of god.

I'm happy for you to believe what you like, polyglide. It's a free country and people ought to be free to practice whatever superstition suits them. So long as you don't impose it on others or expect the government to give your religious group or other religious groups special favours (like faith schools!). However, you, as a christian, do not extend that right to others. Even if you were to be tolerant enough to tell Sheldon and I that we can think what we like, in your heart of hearts, you think that we are going to hell. Now, if you think of it in that context, that is a really wicked thing to think of another human being.

Atheists question this type of religious logic. There isn't an iota of christian love in that kind of thinking about another human being.

Well put, it should also be pointed out that Polyglide has tacitly suggested that this is what will happen to gay people, by claiming they are unnatural and abnormal based on biblical texts and in the knowledge it's directly refuted by all the scientific research, and whilst you and I make a concious choice to view religious beliefs as pure superstition and reject them, no one chooses to be gay. I realise this crosses over into another thread but the condemnation and persecution of gay people by religious bigotry is at least one very good reason for decent people not to embrace religions that do this.

by snowyflake Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:37 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
snowyflake wrote:
polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon,
It is not I that is blaming God for matters, it is you, on a regular basis and it is therefore my right to put you right.

I don't think Sheldon is blaming 'god' for anything. We are both atheists so for us god does not exist. We try to speak to you on your terms. You believe god exists so we try to to talk to you in terms of how god is portrayed in the various holy texts scattered around the world in the various different religions. For you, this is christianity and the bible is the word of god to you. For us, the bible is a mishmash of previous religions and superstitious beliefs hacked together. Jesus may not even have been a real person. You have no proof that he was any more than you have proof of the existence of god.

I'm happy for you to believe what you like, polyglide. It's a free country and people ought to be free to practice whatever superstition suits them. So long as you don't impose it on others or expect the government to give your religious group or other religious groups special favours (like faith schools!). However, you, as a christian, do not extend that right to others. Even if you were to be tolerant enough to tell Sheldon and I that we can think what we like, in your heart of hearts, you think that we are going to hell. Now, if you think of it in that context, that is a really wicked thing to think of another human being.

Atheists question this type of religious logic. There isn't an iota of christian love in that kind of thinking about another human being.

Well put, it should also be pointed out that Polyglide has tacitly suggested that this is what will happen to gay people, by claiming they are unnatural and abnormal based on biblical texts and in the knowledge it's directly refuted by all the scientific research, and whilst you and I make a concious choice to view religious beliefs as pure superstition and reject them, no one chooses to be gay. I realise this crosses over into another thread but the condemnation and persecution of gay people by religious bigotry is at least one very good reason for decent people not to embrace religions that do this.

Any decent person would not engage in a religion that professes to 'love' all of god's creations but judges and condemns those people who are condemned in their so called holy texts. That is not a moral person. A person who does this does not think for themselves but uses the bible to support their own prejudices.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:46 pm

"Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this politician serious?"

Given the disparate and fragmented nature of beliefs of people who are ostensibly of the same religion, and the subjective way theists interpret their religious texts, it's going to be very difficult to define what this person is asking us to embrace, though it will undoubtedly be his own subjective view.

Though I think there is enough egregiously bad dogma and doctrine in the religious texts of the contemporary monotheisms to make me very wary of 'embracing' them. Far better to base our societies laws and morals on universal human rights.

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