Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this politician serious?

by Greatest I am Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:17 am

First topic message reminder :

Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this politician serious?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H2ED8A8RXeY

The apostle’s creed shows that Christianity is based on having to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that the guilty should be forgiven if a suitable human sacrifice is made to God.

I suggest that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. Immoral regardless of the victim volunteering or not which is not the case with Jesus.

That is one of many moral tenets that have caused secular governments to reject Judeo-Christian culture and values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

The bible is a compilation of evil acts by a satanic God and no moral man would every push to have Judeo-Christian culture and values implemented as our law. The U.S. is the closes to that ideal and their jail statistics are the most dismal in the free world.

Would you promote Judeo-Christian culture and values?

Regards
DL

by polyglide Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:14 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Having unlimited power does not mean one can predict the future, only on the grounds of what would happen under certain circumstances.

Having power means being able to untilise that which is available to it's greatest extent and nothing more.

by polyglide Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:24 am

snowyflake,
Despite all your baseless unsavoury comments about my thoughts and abilities etc; perhaps we should consider your own shortcommings.

At no time have I said that sexual perversions are the only demain of homosexuals.

Anyone, single, married, lesbian or any other section of humanity who indulges in sexual activities not in accordance with what is accepted by the majority, is just as perverted as any other.

You obviously put a very different interpretation and emphasis on this matter than any intelligent person does.

A perversion is just that, it can cover numerous activities and if you put any sygnificance to it that is not intended then that is a shortcomming of your own.

by polyglide Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:28 am

Dr, Sheldon,
What I find very interesting is the remarks you made when I requested just what your own sexual persuasions are.

You accused me of trying to say you were homosexual as if I was trying to say you were a murderer or worse.

This is not compatable with your stated views on homosexuality.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:49 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
Having unlimited power does not mean one can predict the future, only on the grounds of what would happen under certain circumstances.

Having power means being able to untilise that which is available to it's greatest extent and nothing more.

Having omnipotence or limitless power is an absolute term. It speaks for itself and any attempt to alter the definition with semantics also speaks for itself.

I never claimed omnipotence allowed the holder to predict the future. I pointed out that having omniscience or limitless knowledge would axiomatically involve knowing the future.

The innate paradoxes in both claims cannot be rationalised away with semantics. Though theists have tried of course.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:52 pm

polyglide wrote:snowyflake,
Despite all your baseless unsavoury comments about my thoughts and abilities etc; perhaps we should consider your own shortcommings.

At no time have I said that sexual perversions are the only demain of homosexuals.

Anyone, single, married, lesbian or any other section of humanity who indulges in sexual activities not in accordance with what is accepted by the majority, is just as perverted as any other.

You obviously put a very different interpretation and emphasis on this matter than any intelligent person does.

A perversion is just that, it can cover numerous activities and if you put any sygnificance to it that is not intended then that is a shortcomming of your own.

I love the way you shamelessly claim to know what the majority think without a hint of irony. Odd how this covenant factoid always supports your own views and prejudices though. I'm guessing this coincidence produces no irony in your thought process either.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:20 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
What I find very interesting is the remarks you made when I requested just what your own sexual persuasions are.

You accused me of trying to say you were homosexual as if I was trying to say you were a murderer or worse.

This is not compatable with your stated views on homosexuality.

This is simply another shameless lie from you. I'm sure we're all finding this glimpse of a christian attitude most edifying, but it is YOU and not me who has repeatedly compared being gay with egregious and heinous crimes. Such as but not limited to murder and rape. Again I'm more than happy to let everyone read what I've written and see for themselves that I have never uttered any prejudiced or homophobic remarks. Further that I have stated plainly that I think all people should have the same basic human rights, and that in line with all the current medical and scientific literature accept that being gay is a perfperfectly ct normal and natural variation of human sexual desires. This is also the position of every major health and scientific body globally including the world health organisation.

Nor have we seen you produce a single dictionary definition to support your lie that all the dictionaries you'd ever read defined homosexuality as unnatural and perverse.

Now I think we all know the answer by know, but can you please tell us if you have told the gay "friends" you have claimed to have that you think they are abnormal unnatural perverted deviants as you have continually claimed on here?

You don't have to answer as your continued silence speaks for itself.

by snowyflake Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:48 pm

polyglide wrote:Having unlimited power does not mean one can predict the future

Actually it does. If he can't predict the future his powers are therefore limited.

You seem to know an awful lot about the limitations of unlimited power.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:09 pm

snowyflake wrote:
polyglide wrote:Having unlimited power does not mean one can predict the future

Actually it does. If he can't predict the future his powers are therefore limited.

You seem to know an awful lot about the limitations of unlimited power.

Is anyone really surprised that he doesn't understand the definition of omnipotent or omniscient, it's not as if he's shown much grasp of far simpler word definitions, and the concepts relating to them.

by Greatest I am Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:13 am

If God is not responsible for evil, then it must also be said that he is not responsible for the good we experience either. Right?

If he was responsible for good then he could drown out evil with good.

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:14 am

Greatest I am wrote:If God is not responsible for evil, then it must also be said that he is not responsible for the good we experience either. Right?

If he was responsible for good then he could drown out evil with good.

Regards
DL

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Epicurus – Greek philosopher, BC 341-270

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:25 am

"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum"
(So great are the evils that religion could prompt!)
Lucretius

by polyglide Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:03 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Omniscient, all knowing all wise and all seeing.

This does not indicate the ability to see that which is not there.

To see something it must be there, to be wise you must be wise and all knowing means you are aware of everything that exists and not that which does not including fffuture events.

God can predict what will happen in the future based on what he knows, just as I know that if you put your finger in the fire it will get burnt.

All the evils in the world are man made because man is so full of himself and being advised by misguided false religions and the Devil.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:59 pm

Omniscience and omnipotence have no limitations. Your rudimentary linguistic skills are causing you to make absurdly silly rationalisation.

An omniscient being would know the future. This is axiomatic.

by Norm Deplume Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:04 pm

polyglide wrote:
Omniscient, all knowing all wise and all seeing.
This does not indicate the ability to see that which is not there.

For that you need blind faith.

polyglide wrote:
To see something it must be there, to be wise you must be wise and all knowing means you are aware of everything that exists and not that which does not including future events.

This means that prophecies are impossible - there are only lucky guesses. You probably realise this since you have made no attempt to substantiate your claims of prophecies being fulfilled.

polyglide wrote:
All the evils in the world are man made because man is so full of himself and being advised by misguided false religions and the Devil.

This is incoherent. The concept of a Devil comes from those same false religions - specifically the Abrahamic ones - and cannot give advice on anything.

I find it hard to credit bubonic plague or Spanish flu being man-made but it's possible that you do not consider them to be evil.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:23 pm

polyglide wrote:All the evils in the world are man made because man is so full of himself and being advised by misguided false religions and the Devil.

How can humans be responsible for millions of years of dinosaur predation when we didn't even exist? If the Devil existed and were tricking us then it could only be because a god that possessed both omniscience and omnipotence wanted it to, that's not benevolence. The whole concept is riddled with paradoxes and logical contradictions, not to mention being more full of holes than a colander.

Again Epicurus sums it quite nicely.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Epicurus – Greek philosopher, BC 341-270

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:35 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, Omniscient, all knowing all wise and all seeing. This does not indicate the ability to see that which is not there.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:So your god isn't omniscient then? This will be a big disappointment to may theists. Omniscience is an absolute, trying to limit it is nothing more than spurious semantics.

To see something it must be there, to be wise you must be wise and all knowing means you are aware of everything that exists and not that which does not including fffuture events.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:So a being that literally knows everything now doesn't know something, oh dear. So much for biblical prophecy then. How exactly did Jesus predict he would rise from the dead? You're punching holes right through Christian theology, but then that's inevitable when you start to examine the erroneous and illogical claims it is based on.

God can predict what will happen in the future based on what he knows,
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:So he doesn't know everything then? So is not omniscient then, so he's not god then, QED.

just as I know that if you put your finger in the fire it will get burnt.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:A rather silly analogy as you're quite obvious;;y not omniscient, and learned not to go near fires as do all humans from other humans, some have to learn the hard way of course. For the record I put my fingers into a fire several times a night and never get burned because I use fire retardant and heat resistant gloves, designed made and tested using science. So yet again science trumps the myth of god, and this time by your own admission.

All the evils in the world are man made because man is so full of himself and being advised by misguided false religions and the Devil.
Dr Sheldon Cooper wrote:Some men are so full of themselves they think they know what an omniscient and omnipotent being thinks and wants. They are so full of themselves they claim to be 100% certain about it, and won't entertain doubt or critical thought. That aside you seem to be suggesting the devil's power can't be checked by an omnipotent deity, which is absurd, or that he won't check the devil's power which means he's not benevolent. Either way you're dismantling your own deity piece by piece.

by polyglide Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:00 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Wake up, smell the air, clear your brain.

I have given you the New Testament passages that explains why God cannot do anything to subdue Satan at the present time.

by snowyflake Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:55 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
Wake up, smell the air, clear your brain.

I have given you the New Testament passages that explains why God cannot do anything to subdue Satan at the present time.

Then god is not all powerful. elephant

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:52 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
Wake up, smell the air, clear your brain.

I have given you the New Testament passages that explains why God cannot do anything to subdue Satan at the present time.

Lets try to reign in the ad hominem again shall we, no one likes a pompous blowhard after all.

It's not my fault if you're simply incapable of grasping the definition of omnipotent or omniscient. However I suggest instead of making ludicrously contradictory claims you look them up in a proper dictionary. Limitless power negates the possibility of the possessor being unable to do something, anything, I really can't dumb it down any more than that for you. Nor have I any interest in your unevidenced Satanic fantasies.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:54 pm

snowyflake wrote:
polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
Wake up, smell the air, clear your brain.

I have given you the New Testament passages that explains why God cannot do anything to subdue Satan at the present time.

Then god is not all powerful.

I'm afraid we''re dealing with an intellect that can't grasp that the two claims are mutually exclusive.

by polyglide Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:50 am

DR, Sheldon,
I have a strong feeling I am dealing with someone without a brain.

Let me give you an explanation that might just be withing your capabilities to grasp.

You have the strongest man in the world and you have another who thinks he is the strongest and the latter challenges the former to a test of their strengths.

Have I lost you already?.

They make an agreement, the challenger has without any interference from the other to take on certain tasks in a given time period after which the former can then become involved and prove his strength.

The former although by far the stronger has to bide his time to prove it to be so, just as God is biding his time before he deals with Satan.

Now just get someone with common sense to explain the difference between what you think something means and the actual facts.

by polyglide Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:53 am

it might also be within, but I doubt it.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:43 pm

polyglide wrote:DR, Sheldon,
I have a strong feeling I am dealing with someone without a brain.

Were this true it'd still be no challenge to dismantle your imbecillic claims. Now try to focus on answering some of the questions put to you instead of indulging your propensity for childish ad hominem.

Or is this obfuscation really supposed to fool anyone?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:47 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,Wake up, smell the air, clear your brain.I have given you the New Testament passages that explains why God cannot do anything to subdue Satan at the present time.

So a being can't do something yet is omnipotent. You really ought not to insult the intelligence of others matey.

by snowyflake Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:41 pm

polyglide wrote:DR, Sheldon,
I have a strong feeling I am dealing with someone without a brain.

Let me give you an explanation that might just be withing your capabilities to grasp.

You have the strongest man in the world and you have another who thinks he is the strongest and the latter challenges the former to a test of their strengths.

Have I lost you already?.

They make an agreement, the challenger has without any interference from the other to take on certain tasks in a given time period after which the former can then become involved and prove his strength.

The former although by far the stronger has to bide his time to prove it to be so, just as God is biding his time before he deals with Satan.

Now just get someone with common sense to explain the difference between what you think something means and the actual facts.

So the all powerful creator god that you worship who is infallible, cannot beat satan? As I said, then god is not omnipotent. What exactly are you worshipping and more to the point...why?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:09 pm

polyglide wrote:DR, Sheldon, Now just get someone with common sense to explain the difference between what you think something means and the actual facts.

Since when are delusional superstitions and Satanic fantasies facts? I know you think you're a genius with expert debating skills but your constant use of childish petty personal insult suggests otherwise. Do try and debate like a grown up there's a good chap. The Christian claims for an omniscient deity have obvious consequences for their claims for free will, as has been amply demonstrated, but just to reiterate the two claims are mutually exclusive, that means that they can't both be true

1. If an omniscient deity existed then it would by definition know the future.
2. Any attempt to limit it's knowledge would mean it was not omniscient.
3. As Snowyflake pointed out a deity that was omnipotent would also be able to predict exactly the future.

Omnipotence has a number of logical paradoxes associated with it, but we are dealing with the argument from evil. This problem has taxed the best theological minds for thousands of years, so I'm sure it'd come as a massive shock to theologians the world over to know that you have solved this one. Have you considered publishing your claims? I'm sure you'd have publishers queuing up. It doesn't matter which way you try to rationalise this as the problem isn't answered by the facts. In the meantime lets recap as it's clear from your petty insulting and dismissive response that you haven't given the matter sufficient thought.

1. If an omnipotent deity exists it needn't allow evil or suffering.
2. If it does allow it then it is not benevolent as the Christian religion claims.
3. If it can't stop evil and suffering then it's not omnipotent as the Christian religion claims.

It doesn't matter what you claim you think this deity wants to do, the fact is that it needn't have included evil or suffering to achieve it's desired ends. There's a quote I like from Heller's Catch 22 that covers this quite nicely that goes as follows:

"And don't tell me God works in mysterious ways," Yossarian continued, hurtling on over her objection. "There's nothing so mysterious about it. He's not working at all. He's playing. Or else, He's forgotten all about us. That's the kind of God you people talk about - a country bumpkin, a clumsy, bungling, brainless, conceited, uncouth hayseed. Good God, how much reverence can you have for a supreme being who finds it necessary to include such phenomena as phlegm and tooth decay in His divine system of creation? What in the world was running through that warped, evil, scatological mind of His when he robbed old people of their power to control their bowel movements? Why in the world did He ever create pain?"

by Greatest I am Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:53 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
Omniscient, all knowing all wise and all seeing.

This does not indicate the ability to see that which is not there.

To see something it must be there, to be wise you must be wise and all knowing means you are aware of everything that exists and not that which does not including fffuture events.

God can predict what will happen in the future based on what he knows, just as I know that if you put your finger in the fire it will get burnt.

All the evils in the world are man made because man is so full of himself and being advised by misguided false religions and the Devil.

Where did man get such a nature?

God. And you seem not to like how God creates.

Satan was sentenced to hell a long time ago. Right?
Is justice delayed, justice denied --- in your theology?

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:19 pm

True enough. It's also worth noting again that if as Polyglide claims an omnipotent deity is allowing evil, in whatever convoluted rationalisation he is suggesting, it's still that deities CHOICE to allow evil and suffering to occur when it possess the power to avoid it. And what's more important nothing that Polyglide claims has to happen need be affected for a being with omnipotence. Whether it be human free will or any Satanic fantasy he can think up.

by Greatest I am Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:02 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:True enough. It's also worth noting again that if as Polyglide claims an omnipotent deity is allowing evil, in whatever convoluted rationalisation he is suggesting, it's still that deities CHOICE to allow evil and suffering to occur when it possess the power to avoid it. And what's more important nothing that Polyglide claims has to happen need be affected for a being with omnipotence. Whether it be human free will or any Satanic fantasy he can think up.

Thanks for this.

We have him on creation and I hope he speaks to the justice denied us if God does not put Satan in hell where he has been condemned to go a long time ago.

I doubt that he will deal with that bit of injustice on God's part.

That one falls under that catch all,--- God works in mysterious ways.

That is a great way to not answer a question.

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:20 pm

Another interesting quote, and a fitting response to whoever invoked the ten commandments as a defence of Christianity's claim to moral ascendancy, this time from the late great Christopher Hitchens.

"Is it too modern to notice that there is nothing [in the ten commandments] about the protection of children from cruelty, nothing about rape, nothing about slavery, and nothing about genocide? Or is it too exactingly “in context” to notice that some of these very offences are about to be positively recommended?
―God Is Not Great"

by Greatest I am Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:11 pm

The late but great.

His stand up gets a fail though.

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:30 pm

Another Christopher Hitchen's quote leaped out at me as being particularly salient to the thread topic, and whether it was morally prudent to embrace
Judeo-Christian culture and values ?

“Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.”
― Christopher Hitchens

by Greatest I am Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:09 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Another Christopher Hitchen's quote leaped out at me as being particularly salient to the thread topic, and whether it was morally prudent to embrace
Judeo-Christian culture and values ?

“Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.”
― Christopher Hitchens

Always good to be reminded of the Dark Ages and Inquisition that Christianity helped usher in.

Regards
DL

by snowyflake Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:15 pm

Frankly, gnostic christianity is no better than any other religion where you believe something that has no evidence to support it. A personal experience as a gnostic christian is not different to a personal experience by any other believer. Subjective experience is not proof of anything.

However, I support your right to believe what you like and it doesn't seem to bother believers overly much if it's true or not.

by Greatest I am Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:31 pm

snowyflake wrote:Frankly, gnostic christianity is no better than any other religion where you believe something that has no evidence to support it..

We do not believe anything without evidence. That put's us a cut above Most mainstream religions without even looking at the most important part of religion which is morality.

As a non-misogynous and non-homophobic Universalist religion, --- as compared to Christianity, if you do not see our better moral position then you would be right that it does not matter.

If you care about morals then you will see the benefits of Gnostic Christianity.

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:32 pm

Greatest I am wrote:If you care about morals then you will see the benefits of Gnostic Christianity.

Only if you can cite some mutually beneficial morals that can't be achieved without gnostic Christianity. As Snowyflake says, Gnostic Christianity strikes me as a superstition, especially when you start talking about third eyes. What are it's core beliefs and what evidence is there for it?

by Greatest I am Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:56 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:If you care about morals then you will see the benefits of Gnostic Christianity.

Only if you can cite some mutually beneficial morals that can't be achieved without gnostic Christianity. As Snowyflake says, Gnostic Christianity strikes me as a superstition, especially when you start talking about third eyes. What are it's core beliefs and what evidence is there for it?

To superstition. Yes that is what all religions are at their roots. All of our tribal entities are more or less superstitions including all of our political tribal units. All our control systems are basically led by superstitions.

Scientifically, there is a lot of evidence for our third or single eye.

All it is, is finding or activating your right hemisphere of the brain and using your (whole) brain to think with.

This scientist speaks to this.

https://www.ted.com/talks/iain_mcgilchrist_the_divided_brain

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:00 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Only if you can cite some mutually beneficial morals that can't be achieved without gnostic Christianity. As Snowyflake says, Gnostic Christianity strikes me as a superstition, especially when you start talking about third eyes. What are it's core beliefs and what evidence is there for it?

The majority of religious were homophobic and most are still misogynous.

They never preach for full equality of all of us.

Gnostic Christianity does and that standard would be in place if Rome had not had their Christians decimate Gnostic Christianity and if we had continued to lead and be the conscience of Christianity.

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:41 pm

The point I was making is that a person may be decent and possess good morals and reject prejudice, all without adopting Gnostic Christianity, or any other religion for that matter.

by Greatest I am Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:37 pm

I agree.

I find that most non-religious are more moral than religious people.

Perhaps it is because they recognise the better justice offered by secular governments than what religions offer.

Non-believers also are generally brighter than the religious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZqaeusdMTk

Regards
DL

by polyglide Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:58 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Satan has challenged God, the result is not yet known.

At face value and according to all known facts the face off is in it's closing stages and will become more apparent when all nations turn against the Jews.

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