No Hell and everyone gets saved

by JP Cusick Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

The Bible does not really teach of any burning HELL as the word in the Bible only means the grave or garbage dump where they use to throw dead bodies.

Many religions beside Christianity has taught people this wrong barbaric idea as their religious doctrine, but it is not real.

1) Any God that burns people for any reason is not only a monster but a criminal and a sinner and an evil entity.

2) Burning people is not "forgiveness" as it is rather the opposite of forgiving.

3) Burning people is not "love" as it is rather the opposite of love.

4) Putting any person into a Hell, link, is not justice and such an evil idea can not be justice.

5) To "love" means no pain and no more hurting for anyone, as per: "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." KJV. Revelation 21:4.

God is love, link here = 1 John 4:8, and God does not hurt people, and that means no one ever goes to any hell.

Everyone is a sinner at various degrees and depth, and there is no one as righteous.

Nobody goes to some fire and torment of any hell, and the saying of "Hell on earth" in this lifetime now is far more accurate.

In the end everyone gets saved and not even one sinner nor one evil sheep gets lost or left out because salvation is for all of mankind.

Jesus said "Love thy enemies" just as God loves His enemies, Matthew 5:43-48, so love does not burn people and love does not hurt people, and that means not even those that are sinners and enemies.

See 1 Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." So the person is being "SAVED" by the "FIRE" and not hurt by it.

The plan is to have a great salvation, and it would not be great if some people were excluded.

Just FYI.

by stuart torr Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:29 pm

Hasn't anyone got a sense of humour in this place?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:17 pm

Shirina wrote:
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Well actually the odds were even grater than you suggest, as if he'd been born any time over the last 150000+ years other than the last 2000 years his religion and god wouldn't even have been created, so he'd have been damned to hell by his logic.
Yep, that's true ... I could have included the entirety of human existence, and he very well could have been born 80,000 years ago when Christianity didn't even exist. I suppose he's lucky that I was only including a singular point in time, so that if he were born today, there would only be a 2% chance of being born in America, and even THAT assumes that birth rates are equal in all nations (when they aren't). He has roughly a 33.3% chance of being born in either India or China, neither of which is teeming with Christians.

If you throw in the past 150,000 years, the odds of being born in a place and time where the God of the Bible is being worshiped are so remote that I would rather play casino games with the longest odds than bet on Mr. Cusick's Christianity.

All in all that would indicate that Christianity is either entirely man made, or the Christian god is unbelievably tardy for omniscient omnipotent deity....

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:19 pm

JP Cusick wrote:The Bible does not really teach of any burning HELL as the word in the Bible only means the grave or garbage dump where they use to throw dead bodies.

Many religions beside Christianity has taught people this wrong barbaric idea as their religious doctrine, but it is not real.

1) Any God that burns people for any reason is not only a monster but a criminal and a sinner and an evil entity.

2) Burning people is not "forgiveness" as it is rather the opposite of forgiving.

3) Burning people is not "love" as it is rather the opposite of love.

4) Putting any person into a Hell, link, is not justice and such an evil idea can not be justice.

5) To "love" means no pain and no more hurting for anyone, as per: "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." KJV. Revelation 21:4.

God is love, link here = 1 John 4:8, and God does not hurt people, and that means no one ever goes to any hell.

Everyone is a sinner at various degrees and depth, and there is no one as righteous.

Nobody goes to some fire and torment of any hell, and the saying of "Hell on earth" in this lifetime now is far more accurate.

In the end everyone gets saved and not even one sinner nor one evil sheep gets lost or left out because salvation is for all of mankind.

Jesus said "Love thy enemies" just as God loves His enemies, Matthew 5:43-48, so love does not burn people and love does not hurt people, and that means not even those that are sinners and enemies.

See 1 Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." So the person is being "SAVED" by the "FIRE" and not hurt by it.

The plan is to have a great salvation, and it would not be great if some people were excluded.

Just FYI.

That's all fantasy, without any basis in fact, or even a single shred of empirical evidence, just FYI.

Also, quoting the book your religion created itself as if it validates it's own claims is not evidence, and it's highly subjective, and fairly risible to claim otherwise. FYI...

by Heretic Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:26 pm

JP Cusick wrote:
Heretic wrote:No hell and everyone gets saved, sounds like a no brainer and I suspect it might be.

If everyone gets saved there is sort of no point to a lot of things. I'll try and put them in a list.

1. No need for sin or sinlessness.
2. No need for the Garden of Eden.
3. No need for hell Hell.
4. No need for a distinct Heaven.
5. No need for prophets.
6. No need for a messiah.
7. No need for holy wars.
8. No need for churches or temples.
9. No need for ministers.
10. No need for tithes.
11. No need for sacrifice.
12. No need for service.
13. No need for scriptures.
14. No need for services.
15. No need for hate.
16. No need for love.
17. No need for salvation.
18. No need for sermons.
19. No need for need.
20. No need for TV Evangelists.

The list could go on and on - I'm sure all of you have your own suggestions

Heretic
That is correct that there is no need in and of itself.

People only need such things when we ever want to know the truth, when we want to be free, and to be strong.

People can live without happiness and without love, but when they decide they want better then comes the need.

If you need truth you need only look at the world around you, the realm of science, or to look inside yourself, the realm of self encounter, mysticism and psychology.

If you have need more truth than that then you are way too knowledgeable at one and way too ignorant of the other (this works either way round).

But you of course Mr JP Cusick think you are a Christian even though you seem to profess something really different from what any Christian would recognise as such, unless you live in the mid west of the US of A in which case you are probably a moderate Baptist preacher.

Heretic

by Shirina Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:31 pm

JP Cusick wrote:People only need such things when we ever want to know the truth, when we want to be free, and to be strong.

People can live without happiness and without love, but when they decide they want better then comes the need.

What in the world ever convinced you that one needs to bend a knee to a dictatorial god in order to be happy and free? I just don't get it.

In fact, you ask just about anyone when the happiest time of their lives was ... and a fairly large majority will probably tell you, "childhood."

And yet ... in childhood, the concept of "god" is pretty alien and well off the radar. You don't see 6 year-olds reading the Bible and throwing around random praises to an invisible god. Children don't care. I wonder why so many were at their happiest in childhood without worshiping some ridiculous desert tribal god?

Oh wait, let me guess -- "God gives children automatic happiness until they come of age, then they have to worship in order to get it."

Rolling Eyes

by stuart torr Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:42 pm

I want to know why JP signed off with a queen, does he know what that means? such a nice boy too.

by Heretic Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:48 pm

stu wrote: Hasn't anyone got a sense of humour in this place?

I left mine at the when I came in. My sense of humour is way to dry for most people but I live in one of the wittiest cities on earth, Liverpool. Liverpool is a city that people either love or hate. It seems to be a city that is hated by the Tories since the days of Derek Hatton and Margaret Thatcher, it is hated by Labour for the same reason. Everyone that has visited for more than a few days tends to fall in love with the place. I arrived in 1978 and couldn't find the way out of the place. If you want to have a good time then come to the city that gave us Penny Lane and The Beatles, comedians from Arthur Askey to Jon Bishop.

I found this list of ten facts about Liverpool in the Daily Telegraph archive.

Ten facts about Liverpool
10:01AM BST 04 Jun 2003
1. The city of Liverpool was created in 1207 when King John granted a Royal Charter which was written in Latin. Liverpool was once the "Second City of Empire", eclipsing even London for commerce at times.
2. Liverpool holds the Guinness Book of Records title for being the Capital of Pop. More artists with a Liverpool origin have had a number one hit than from any other location. And of course, Liverpudlian legends The Beatles changed the face of popular music.
3. Liverpool is the most successful footballing city in England, home to both Liverpool and Everton. It has won 27 League championships, four European Cups, three Uefa Cups, one Cup Winners cup, 11 FA Cups, and six League Cups.
4. Liverpool's Walker Art Gallery is the national gallery of the North and houses one of the best collections of European art outside London.
5. Liverpool has the largest collection of Grade II-listed buildings outside London. The city has 2,500 listed buildings and 250 public monuments.
6. Liverpool's three graces - the Liver, the Cunard and the Port of Liverpool buildings - are to be joined by a fourth. Designed by Will Alsop, the Cloud is a futuristic, three-tiered structure that will be home to offices, a hotel and community facilities.
7. Liverpool's Anglican Cathedral is the largest cathedral in Britain and the fifth largest in the world. It was designed by Giles Gilbert Scott in 1904. The city has a second cathedral - the Metropolitan Cathedral, which was designed by Frederick Gibberd after the Second World War.
8. The Liverpool and Manchester Railway was the first successful passenger-carrying railway in the world. Trials for Stephenson's Rocket were carried out at Rainhill in 1829.
9. Liverpool has a thriving film industry. Films that shot there include The Hunt For Red October, The 51st State, The Parole Officer and Letter To Brezhnev. The city was used as a location for more than 140 films last year and has doubled for Moscow, Dublin, Paris and even Venice.
10. Scouse is a type of stew. It was eaten by Liverpudlians living in poverty before the 1900s. Ingredients include lamb or beef, cabbage, carrot, potatoes and onion.

A strange list of facts about a city where many of the people you meet have a better sense of humour than anything seen on the TV. A city that still feels that it is made up of communities.

(Anyone worried about sources can find the above list at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1431943/Ten-facts-about-Liverpool.html )

Heretic

by JP Cusick Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:53 pm

Heretic wrote:If you need truth you need only look at the world around you, the realm of science, or to look inside yourself, the realm of self encounter, mysticism and psychology.

If you have need more truth than that then you are way too knowledgeable at one and way too ignorant of the other (this works either way round).

When you limit truth - then you need not be surprised some day when you find out that you missed the better parts.

There are such things as revelations and inspiration, and at least learning from others as like ancient history who have other perspectives and other sources.

Heretic wrote:But you of course Mr JP Cusick think you are a Christian even though you seem to profess something really different from what any Christian would recognise as such, unless you live in the mid west of the US of A in which case you are probably a moderate Baptist preacher.

I live in southern Maryland (20636) and even though I call myself as a Christian and a Jew and Muslim and Hindu and Tao and Shaman and Atheist and every other religion - all of them reject me as one of their own.

I am quite happy to be on the outside of Christianity, just as I am on the outside of everyone else too.

My point in this forum discussion was if anyone wanted to know the truth or to discuss or debate the truth, but I mean as individuals and not as representatives of anything other than our self.

I see it as easy to take shots at Christianity as a whole or any group and against religion and against God as defined by some dictionary or by some doctrine, but to discuss the reality and the truth on an individual level with me is not the same.

afraid

by stuart torr Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:59 pm

Nice one Heretic, always use your humour on here mate. I get most.

by Shirina Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:07 pm

Heretic wrote:I left mine at the when I came in. My sense of humour is way to dry for most people but I live in one of the wittiest cities on earth, Liverpool.

Nooooo .... please go back out, collect your sense of humor, and bring it in here with you. I love dry humor, especially since mine is often dry, as well. I often find British humor far wittier than American humor, which I think is too blunt, obvious, and usually centers around something sexual.

by Heretic Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:17 pm

Heretic wrote:If you need truth you need only look at the world around you, the realm of science, or to look inside yourself, the realm of self encounter, mysticism and psychology.

If you have need more truth than that then you are way too knowledgeable at one and way too ignorant of the other (this works either way round).

JP Cusick wrote:When you limit truth - then you need not be surprised some day when you find out that you missed the better parts.

This sounds fair enough at first glance.....

JP Cusick wrote:There are such things as revelations and inspiration, and at least learning from others as like ancient history who have other perspectives and other sources.

But then you go and spoil it. In order for there to a revelation there needs to be a revealer and there is no such animal.........

Inspiration is a different kettle of fish. Inspiration is something that we draw from ourselves and therefore falls into the "realm of self encounter, mysticism and psychology."

Heretic wrote:But you of course Mr JP Cusick think you are a Christian even though you seem to profess something really different from what any Christian would recognise as such, unless you live in the mid west of the US of A in which case you are probably a moderate Baptist preacher.

JP Cusick wrote:I live in southern Maryland (20636)

Not quite a bible-belt location is it. You still sound like one of the very delusional type Christians, perhaps the bible-belt couldn't stand you either and kicked you out. Is that the truth?

JP Cusick wrote:and even though I call myself as a Christian and a Jew and Muslim and Hindu and Tao and Shaman and Atheist and every other religion - all of them reject me as one of their own.

From what I can see you have a passing knowledge of Christianity (but not enough to talk about it properly), I have seen no understanding at all of any understanding of Judaism, Islam, Hinduism. The Tao? I've seen no understanding of that at all and everything that you know about atheism is probably what you've learned here but still you have no understanding of it.

JP Cusick wrote:I am quite happy to be on the outside of Christianity, just as I am on the outside of everyone else too.

I suspect that the reason that you are on the outside of everything is that you got chucked out. No real mystery there or do you have an explanation different to mine?

JP Cusick wrote:My point in this forum discussion was if anyone wanted to know the truth or to discuss or debate the truth, but I mean as individuals and not as representatives of anything other than our self.

People has read what you've had to say and most of them seem to think you're barmy. I took some time to read quite a few of your posts before I ever replied to you and I find it incredible that someone like you still exists. The 1700's maybe when all sorts of sects and cults started but most of those closed decades ago, sometimes centuries.

JP Cusick wrote:I see it as easy to take shots at Christianity as a whole or any group and against religion and against God

Well yes it is, it's not even a challenge most of the time

JP Cusick wrote: as defined by some dictionary or by some doctrine,

A dictionary is a tool that lays down the exact meaning of a word, if you have a problem with using language properly defined then you're in the wrong place.

A friend of mine at school once tried to explain to our teacher that he had got the answer to a question right and that she had marked it wrong. Our teacher stood bemused as my friend explained that he spelled "Rome" as "P-A-R-I-S" and he should not get marked down for bad spelling in a geography test. We were all in pleats of laughter but his test score remained the same.

If you wish to use words in a way other than as shown in dictionary you could cause as much confusion as my friend.

As for doctrine most atheists do not have any so the ones discussed would be the ones brought up in discussion by you, I hope they will be properly defined or what's the point of discussing them at alll.

JP Cusick wrote: but to discuss the reality and the truth on an individual level with me is not the same.

Reality and truth discussion is always welcome but in the open and where everyone can see the sense (or otherwise) of what is said.

I would welcome a serious debate with you but sadly I have rarely seen you make a serious point, and to do it well would make a welcome change.

Peace

Heretic

by Heretic Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:18 pm

Shirina wrote:Nooooo .... please go back out, collect your sense of humor, and bring it in here with you. I love dry humor, especially since mine is often dry, as well. I often find British humor far wittier than American humor, which I think is too blunt, obvious, and usually centers around something sexual.

O.K. As and when it is appropriate.

Twisted Evil

Heretic

by stuart torr Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:12 pm

Good on yer Heretic, some of your northern humour will come out.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:32 pm

JP Cusick wrote:
Heretic wrote:If you need truth you need only look at the world around you, the realm of science, or to look inside yourself, the realm of self encounter, mysticism and psychology.

If you have need more truth than that then you are way too knowledgeable at one and way too ignorant of the other (this works either way round).
When you limit truth - then you need not be surprised some day when you find out that you missed the better parts.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Your largess claims might be more credible if we hadn't all seen you deny evidence showing the abuses of women and their rights by muslim men, and your apologetics for the same. You have since ignored the evidence of the young girl the Taliban shot for pursuing an education talking at the UN. So your claims to be pursuing truth are fairly dubious.
There are such things as revelations and inspiration, and at least learning from others as like ancient history who have other perspectives and other sources.

\"Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote: "]Just another in a long list of claims you've made, but produced not one shred of empirical evidence for. I believe the correct phrase is "put up or shut up" since you just roll on with these claims ignoring the many requests for evidence, or blithly cite the opinions of others who share your beliefs as evidence, when it's not, and that includes the bible by the way.
Heretic wrote:But you of course Mr JP Cusick think you are a Christian even though you seem to profess something really different from what any Christian would recognise as such, unless you live in the mid west of the US of A in which case you are probably a moderate Baptist preacher.
I live in southern Maryland (20636) and even though I call myself as a Christian and a Jew and Muslim and Hindu and Tao and Shaman and Atheist and every other religion - all of them reject me as one of their own.

I am quite happy to be on the outside of Christianity, just as I am on the outside of everyone else too.

My point in this forum discussion was if anyone wanted to know the truth or to discuss or debate the truth, but I mean as individuals and not as representatives of anything other than our self.

\"Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote: "]Of course this implies you know the truth, and everyone else doesn't, but as I showed earlier when confronted with empirical evidence that you're wrong you simply deny it, that's not the behaviour of someone seeking the truth, nor is faith.
I see it as easy to take shots at Christianity as a whole or any group and against religion and against God as defined by some dictionary or by some doctrine, but to discuss the reality and the truth on an individual level with me is not the same.

\"Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote: "]Well as I've said, and as you've shown, the idea that you are seeking, or somehow the possessor of the truth is highly dubious, given your denial of any evidence that contradicts what you believe.

by stuart torr Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:44 pm

He just does not answer any questions that might prove him wrong Sheldon, and to me that is the sign of a cowerd.

by JP Cusick Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:43 pm

Heretic wrote: In order for there to a revelation there needs to be a revealer and there is no such animal.........

Clearly I am not suitable here on this forum, and yet you all have given me one revelation which troubles me, but if it is then it is.

I have to wonder if the persons posting here are really a reflection of the UK population, or maybe just of England?

That Britain has really become a land of Godless heathen.

To me that is a sad revelation, but if it is then it is.

deadhorse

by Kazza Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:00 pm

Cusick says - "That Britain has really become a land of Godless heathen".

Have you any evidence of America being a shining example of goodness and godliness?

by JP Cusick Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:07 pm

Kazza wrote:Cusick says - "That Britain has really become a land of Godless heathen".

Have you any evidence of America being a shining example of goodness and godliness?

No, I am not referring to any competition.

My USA has huge problems and huge evils going onward, and many of us Americans are expecting to receive the wrath of God any day now.

But here in the USA we do know that we are sinning.

headbang

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:12 pm

JP Cusick wrote:
Heretic wrote: In order for there to a revelation there needs to be a revealer and there is no such animal.........
Clearly I am not suitable here on this forum, and yet you all have given me one revelation which troubles me, but if it is then it is.

I have to wonder if the persons posting here are really a reflection of the UK population, or maybe just of England?

That Britain has really become a land of Godless heathen.

To me that is a sad revelation, but if it is then it is.

Oi, I'm not English!

I am definitely a godless heathen though, I can't refute that, nor do I want to.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:15 pm

JP Cusick wrote:
Kazza wrote:Cusick says - "That Britain has really become a land of Godless heathen".

Have you any evidence of America being a shining example of goodness and godliness?
No, I am not referring to any competition.

My USA has huge problems and huge evils going onward, and many of us Americans are expecting to receive the wrath of God any day now.

But here in the USA we do know that we are sinning.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Can I ask how you will be able to be certain when it happens that it's the wrath of god, and not just some misfortune that has happened by chance?

by Kazza Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:24 pm

To JP - Really? When you say 'many of us Americans', are you speaking for the fundamentalists, like yourself, or for the general population?

I think you'll find most people are just getting on with their lives as best as they can, the wrath of the gods being consigned to a medieval mindset. America will eventually catch up.

by Sam Hunter Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:00 am

JP Cusick wrote:I have to wonder if the persons posting here are really a reflection of the UK population, or maybe just of England?

That Britain has really become a land of Godless heathen.

To me that is a sad revelation, but if it is then it is.

Each contributer here represents themself. Whether we reflect the UK population (or the population of any other home nation) can be debated. However, I do think that it would be a great day that atheism became the norm here. I look forward to a more rational population.

by Heretic Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:12 am

Sam Hunter wrote:Each contributer here represents themself. Whether we reflect the UK population (or the population of any other home nation) can be debated. However, I do think that it would be a great day that atheism became the norm here. I look forward to a more rational population.

It seems to me that though it is true that Britain is very firmly on the path to being a secular society (the only kind of society that can have true freedom of religion) that many people seem to be passing through a stage of Paganism/Spiritualism (or even trying to mix Christianity,Paganism and Spiritualism ) while on the path from Christianity to Atheism. It is true that I am taking my sample from an older part of the spectrum.

I also see that what what remains of Christianity is travelling to the right of the political spectrum and towards the evangelical fundamentalist extreme. You would of thought given the message taught by Jesus (not the founder of Christianity, that was Saul/Paul) that taking him more seriously would of caused the church to lurch to the left.

Heretic

by Heretic Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:17 am

Hello Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD. I just wanted to pass onto you the fact that red text can be difficult to read.

Heretic

by Heretic Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:27 am

JP Cusick wrote:
Kazza wrote:Cusick says - "That Britain has really become a land of Godless heathen".

Have you any evidence of America being a shining example of goodness and godliness?
No, I am not referring to any competition.

My USA has huge problems and huge evils going onward, and many of us Americans are expecting to receive the wrath of God any day now.

But here in the USA we do know that we are sinning.

You say that you Americans "are expecting to receive the wrath of God any day now." Sadly I need to say to you that you need to expect to be disappointed no matter how much you might deserve it.

Heretic

by Kazza Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:31 am

Here we are, in the 21st century, and we've stopped burning witches, yet there are those among us who still believe that killing a young girl for wanting an education is righteous, that somehow this will please some god or other into bestowing them with immortality. Using a god's will as an excuse to gain power and control over others only highlights the flaws in their religious beliefs, and their lack of humanity.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:24 pm

Kazza wrote:To JP - Really? When you say 'many of us Americans', are you speaking for the fundamentalists, like yourself, or for the general population?

I think you'll find most people are just getting on with their lives as best as they can, the wrath of the gods being consigned to a medieval mindset. America will eventually catch up.

JP Cusick does have a tendency to make sweeping claims for knowing the thoughts and desires of some fairly large demographics. Since I've been posting which is admittedly not long he has yet to back a single claim with evidence.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:26 pm

Heretic wrote:Hello Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD. I just wanted to pass onto you the fact that red text can be difficult to read.

Heretic

My apologies, I am experimenting with the fonts, as it's easier to reply to individual sections of posts with my answer as a quote, and was trying to pick it out from the post I was responding to.

by stuart torr Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:08 pm

Afternoon Sheldon, a) JP b) evidence c) answering questions that matter. d) answering questions that may prove him wrong!! e)admitting that he is wrong. Now Sheldon a-e is the mixture that just does not go together at all does it?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:10 pm

stu wrote:Afternoon Sheldon, a) JP b) evidence c) answering questions that matter. d) answering questions that may prove him wrong!! e)admitting that he is wrong. Now Sheldon a-e is the mixture that just does not go together at all does it?

Hi stu, you missed me as I went out to lunch. JP Cusick doesn't really appear interested in debate. He certainly has no inetrest in addressing any questions put to him.

by stuart torr Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:29 pm

The only interest JP has is himself Sheldon, and spouting rubbish that cannot be proven. Sad

by Bellatori Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:34 pm

stu wrote:The only interest JP has is himself Sheldon, and spouting rubbish that cannot be proven.

A cross between Brad the Impaler and Spin Very Happy

by stuart torr Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:07 pm

Do you think they mated Bellatori . alien

by stuart torr Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:39 pm

I know this post should be on has anyone seen or heard a ghost, but JP should come under that bracket for not answering our questions. C'mon JP our ghost poster, who picks and chooses which answers to give. C'mon ghost in and answer all the questions that are put to you. deadhorse

by Heretic Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:40 pm

stu wrote:The only interest JP has is himself Sheldon, and spouting rubbish that cannot be proven.

Bellatori wrote:A cross between Brad the Impaler and Spin

You are painting a really ugly picture.

Heretic

by Shirina Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:58 pm

JP Cusick wrote:My USA has huge problems and huge evils going onward, and many of us Americans are expecting to receive the wrath of God any day now.

The only Americans who think that are those idiots who listen to the likes of Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell. You know, those hate-spewing preachers who blame everything from 9/11 to Katrina on God being angry with America because of gays, liberals, atheists, feminists, and the ACLU.

And you see why this kind of "wrath of God" mindset is so incredibly dangerous and dehumanizing. Because whenever the so-called "wrath of God" DOES come (and it will, in the form of a NATURAL disaster), the Christians start pointing fingers. It was their fault! It was their sin that caused all of this! Thus any group that doesn't march in lockstep with the Christian fascist ideals are considered at fault for bringing these NATURAL disasters upon our heads.

If you know your history, you should then be aware of the countless millions of people who have been mindlessly butchered by riotous mobs whipped into a murderous frenzy by religious fundamentalism. You should look at what happened during the Black Death in late 1200's and 1300's. We simply do not NEED this mindset in the 21st Century; we do not NEED religious fear mongering and finger pointing, the blame game with the highest stakes imaginable. This is why religion is so devisive, dangerous, and explosive -- and why wars and violence are still prevalent all around the world.

We "godless heathens" aren't the ones waging war; we're not the ones behind international terrorism; we're not the ones behind persecution, oppression, fascism, authoritarianism, honor killings, homophobia, and theocratic dictatorships. Even America, who so ferverently declares itself a "Christian nation" is out there right now waging war against Muslims -- and you can't tell me that religion isn't an issue.

I am sorry that you don't think this forum is for you ... but I suppose this is an underlying problem with debating these days. People only want to talk to people who agree with them, to join Mutual Admiration Societies, where they can preach to the choir and receive numerous pats on the back. So people run away to forums where they are not challenged because, hey, that's easier, I guess.

by stuart torr Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:10 pm

Atheists get blamed for anything that goes wrong in the world Shirina, by every god loving inhabitant on it. Always have and always will I'm afraid.

by Heretic Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:26 pm

stu wrote:Atheists get blamed for anything that goes wrong in the world Shirina, by every god loving inhabitant on it. Always have and always will I'm afraid.

There are only a few of us that have the time to defend ourselves, the rest of us are making the world turn around.

Heretic

by timeout Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:27 pm

Shirina wrote:
JP Cusick wrote:My USA has huge problems and huge evils going onward, and many of us Americans are expecting to receive the wrath of God any day now.
The only Americans who think that are those idiots who listen to the likes of Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell. You know, those hate-spewing preachers who blame everything from 9/11 to Katrina on God being angry with America because of gays, liberals, atheists, feminists, and the ACLU.

And you see why this kind of "wrath of God" mindset is so incredibly dangerous and dehumanizing. Because whenever the so-called "wrath of God" DOES come (and it will, in the form of a NATURAL disaster), the Christians start pointing fingers. It was their fault! It was their sin that caused all of this! Thus any group that doesn't march in lockstep with the Christian fascist ideals are considered at fault for bringing these NATURAL disasters upon our heads.

----------------

it's interesting that in the early days of Christianity the Pagans were blaming the Christians lack of sacrifice to local gods for the natural disasters (the Pagan gods were not giving protection because of Christian disrespect) that were befalling them. the Christians retorted that it was their god punishing the pagan for their sins! here we are 2000 years later with the Christians still blaming the 'sinners' for every misfortune!

by Shirina Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:24 am

I always said that certain places like northern Europe must be almost completely free of sin since those places rarely receive any major natural disasters. The irony, though, is that those nations are very secular heh heh.

So I guess, if one were to follow the logic, the best way to get natural disasters to stop is to become an atheist.

by Dan Fante Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:01 am

JP Cusick wrote:
Heretic wrote:No hell and everyone gets saved, sounds like a no brainer and I suspect it might be.

If everyone gets saved there is sort of no point to a lot of things. I'll try and put them in a list.

1. No need for sin or sinlessness.
2. No need for the Garden of Eden.
3. No need for hell Hell.
4. No need for a distinct Heaven.
5. No need for prophets.
6. No need for a messiah.
7. No need for holy wars.
8. No need for churches or temples.
9. No need for ministers.
10. No need for tithes.
11. No need for sacrifice.
12. No need for service.
13. No need for scriptures.
14. No need for services.
15. No need for hate.
16. No need for love.
17. No need for salvation.
18. No need for sermons.
19. No need for need.
20. No need for TV Evangelists.

The list could go on and on - I'm sure all of you have your own suggestions

Heretic
That is correct that there is no need in and of itself.

People only need such things when we ever want to know the truth, when we want to be free, and to be strong.

People can live without happiness and without love, but when they decide they want better then comes the need.

Do you think your position can best by described as "no need for need" or "a need for no need"?

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