Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
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Deadly Nightshade
starlight07
Phil Hornby
Penderyn
tlttf
boatlady
Ivan
oftenwrong
astradt1
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Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Our well informed Secretary Of State for Education has decided that as it will soon be the 400th anniversary of the writting of the King James version of the bible every school in England is to have a Celebration copy......
Whilst I can somewhat understand the giving of a copy to every school but why does it have to have foreword by Gove?......Is this just a Tory Minister going on an EGO TRIP/
I would ask every Headmaster/Mistress to remove the pages with the Words of Gove on them......
It is understood that every school in England will receive a copy of the Bible, which will include a foreword by Education Secretary Michael Gove.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/11/25/michael-gove-puts-bible-every-school_n_1113099.html?ref=uk
Whilst I can somewhat understand the giving of a copy to every school but why does it have to have foreword by Gove?......Is this just a Tory Minister going on an EGO TRIP/
I would ask every Headmaster/Mistress to remove the pages with the Words of Gove on them......
astradt1- Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Is this just a Tory Minister going on an EGO TRIP/
We should be grateful it won't carry the imprint,
Brought to you by a Caring Coalition (sorry about you Muslims, Jews and other Faiths, but cash is bit tight just now.)
We should be grateful it won't carry the imprint,
Brought to you by a Caring Coalition (sorry about you Muslims, Jews and other Faiths, but cash is bit tight just now.)
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Rory Claydon: “Michael Gove is in my view, the worst person to have ever graced the position of education secretary. His new plan of ‘Troops for Teachers’ seems to be a project that he thought overnight, whilst drunk. If he could be transported back to the 1950s Ministry for Education, he might find that some of his ideas looked rather old-fashioned even then.”
An article about the only education secretary ever to receive a vote of no confidence from the National Association of Head Teachers:-
http://www.bbench.co.uk/28/post/2013/06/michael-gove-the-story-so-far.html
An article about the only education secretary ever to receive a vote of no confidence from the National Association of Head Teachers:-
http://www.bbench.co.uk/28/post/2013/06/michael-gove-the-story-so-far.html
Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
But at least those of us who were at school fifty years ago will have something familiar to criticise.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Very interesting and detailed stuff here - one wonders, in a democracy, how such an idiot can maintain his position - oh, sorry, I forgot, we're not a democracy any more, are we?
boatlady- Former Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Not only maintain his position, but contain confident expectations of becoming Prime Minister. The loonies have taken charge of the asylum.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Roll on 2015 - let's just hope and pray Labour get their act together in time
boatlady- Former Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Haven't ofsted just agreed today that state schools are failing the brighter students?
We've had to wait a long time for somebody who had the nerve to tackle a system that prevented the brightest from moving forward and hopefully teach some of the others basic English and maths.
We've had to wait a long time for somebody who had the nerve to tackle a system that prevented the brightest from moving forward and hopefully teach some of the others basic English and maths.
tlttf- Banned
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
http://www.bbench.co.uk/28/post/2013/06/michael-gove-the-story-so-far.html
Did you read the link tlttf?
Did you read the link tlttf?
boatlady- Former Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
A couple of links to illustrate your point tlttf, as you couldn't be bothered to do any proper research.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22873257
There seems to be some thought that bright pupils are not being 'stretched' enough in schools. Head teachers and subject teachers question the evidence put forward by Ofsted in support of this assertion
http://t.co/hur31IASZ9
Apparently, there is a suggestion Ofsted may be using the same unimpeachable sources for this conclusion as Mr Gove (what the man down the pub said, Premier Inns publicity material etc)
Worth reading both before coming to any firm opinions?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22873257
Schools fail to challenge the brightest, warns Ofsted
There seems to be some thought that bright pupils are not being 'stretched' enough in schools. Head teachers and subject teachers question the evidence put forward by Ofsted in support of this assertion
http://t.co/hur31IASZ9
Teachers accuse Oftsted of pandering to Gove over state school criticism
Apparently, there is a suggestion Ofsted may be using the same unimpeachable sources for this conclusion as Mr Gove (what the man down the pub said, Premier Inns publicity material etc)
Worth reading both before coming to any firm opinions?
boatlady- Former Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
We all know how teenagers are pulled this way and that by the desire to keep up with "trends" as publicised by the media, but a similar preoccupation seems to have infested the Educators for the past 35 years or so.
Beginning with Thatcher's poorly-disguised contempt for the Teaching Profession, every Education Secretary has scrapped the plans of the previous education secretary. Graduate teachers eagerly grasped every fad as it arrived, including the most damaging of all - let the children learn what they want to learn.
Unsurprisingly the "hard bits" like English Grammar, spelling and punctuation, fell by the wayside together with times-table and Ks & Qs of England. A generation later, new "teachers" emerged without even all of the basic skills.
By chance, the monied middle-class found a way of circumventing those problems by paying again, this time for a proper education for their offspring in the Private sector. Thus providing another target for the conspiracy theorists. (see also inequality).
Beginning with Thatcher's poorly-disguised contempt for the Teaching Profession, every Education Secretary has scrapped the plans of the previous education secretary. Graduate teachers eagerly grasped every fad as it arrived, including the most damaging of all - let the children learn what they want to learn.
Unsurprisingly the "hard bits" like English Grammar, spelling and punctuation, fell by the wayside together with times-table and Ks & Qs of England. A generation later, new "teachers" emerged without even all of the basic skills.
By chance, the monied middle-class found a way of circumventing those problems by paying again, this time for a proper education for their offspring in the Private sector. Thus providing another target for the conspiracy theorists. (see also inequality).
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Mmmmm under the current grades system A* is the highest with G being the lowest....
Under Gove's new grading system... 1 will be the lowest and 8 the highest.....
I find it odd that he should decide to go against all normal logical rating systems....
Next a 2:2 will be a high Degree grade than a 1:2 and god forbid what people will think of a First???????
Under Gove's new grading system... 1 will be the lowest and 8 the highest.....
I find it odd that he should decide to go against all normal logical rating systems....
Next a 2:2 will be a high Degree grade than a 1:2 and god forbid what people will think of a First???????
astradt1- Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Dangerous? Gove? On today's BBC television news he appeared with bleached hair and orange MAKE-UP.
Expect to see him have a walk-on part in TOWIE before long. Followed by Big Brother.
Expect to see him have a walk-on part in TOWIE before long. Followed by Big Brother.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
I appreciate the education idea is emotive, some think it's fine as it is (I question the thinking), some think it has been allowed to be diluted in an attempt to be "equal for all" which falls into the trap of failing the bright kids (that would be me). An interesting article on grammar schools by Peter Hitchens (the dreaded Mail) is worth reading as he puts forward the argument far better than I could.
Grammar Schools - the Campaign to restore them grows in strength, but still their opponents will not argue seriously or honestly
Here and elsewhere I often run into people who want to quibble about the grammar school issue, rather than actually address the problem of how we select children for proper academic education. I have to assume that all intelligent people think that the academically talented ought to be encouraged, and that they flourish in schools where their talents are valued and nourished, and I really have no common ground with those who would resist such a view.
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/?ico=debate^editors_choice
Grammar Schools - the Campaign to restore them grows in strength, but still their opponents will not argue seriously or honestly
Here and elsewhere I often run into people who want to quibble about the grammar school issue, rather than actually address the problem of how we select children for proper academic education. I have to assume that all intelligent people think that the academically talented ought to be encouraged, and that they flourish in schools where their talents are valued and nourished, and I really have no common ground with those who would resist such a view.
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/?ico=debate^editors_choice
tlttf- Banned
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
In abstract, the Grammar School system provides clever kids from all backgrounds with a good preparation for University. The unacceptable side effect however is for the others to be branded one of life's failures. At the age of eleven.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Good point OW, though now kids are assessed via their SAT's throughout their primary years, there should be no need to be examined at 11years.
tlttf- Banned
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
The exam system is under constant revision during Gove's reign, and though that's not an entirely bad thing, it can't make life any easier for the pupils and teachers who experience the ground shifting beneath their feet.
Selection at the age of eleven remains selection at the age of eleven, however it's done, and those not selected for the fast track to Uni must be allowed to feel that they have an equally valued future.
Secondary education is by no means second-class, but in reality teachers reach swift conclusions about which are the pupils worth bothering with, and the rest are corralled into holding-pen classrooms to await release into the community as benefit claimants as soon as the Education Act permits.
That's no way to build a successful Nation.
Selection at the age of eleven remains selection at the age of eleven, however it's done, and those not selected for the fast track to Uni must be allowed to feel that they have an equally valued future.
Secondary education is by no means second-class, but in reality teachers reach swift conclusions about which are the pupils worth bothering with, and the rest are corralled into holding-pen classrooms to await release into the community as benefit claimants as soon as the Education Act permits.
That's no way to build a successful Nation.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
I went to a Grammar School - the main thing I learned was that all my teachers felt they should be doing something better with their lives than teaching the children of the working class.
I did get my 'O's' and 'A's' but my EDUCATION was always elsewhere.
I went to University some years later because it was right for me - my careers teacher (so called) felt someone from my poor background would be better off in the Civil Service.
Needless to say, I hold no brief for Grammar Schools - if one child can have a good education , every child should have a good education
I did get my 'O's' and 'A's' but my EDUCATION was always elsewhere.
I went to University some years later because it was right for me - my careers teacher (so called) felt someone from my poor background would be better off in the Civil Service.
Needless to say, I hold no brief for Grammar Schools - if one child can have a good education , every child should have a good education
boatlady- Former Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Agreed totally boatlady, just so long as people remember that some kids are more suited to academia than others and they are allowed to move forward at a quicker rate rather than be held back.
Have you noticing that the labour minister for education has stepped forward wanting "Parent led and Teacher led schools". Strangely enough the coalition are doing that at the moment and calling them "Free schools". Yes vote labour and get what you vote for, ie; nothing new.
Have you noticing that the labour minister for education has stepped forward wanting "Parent led and Teacher led schools". Strangely enough the coalition are doing that at the moment and calling them "Free schools". Yes vote labour and get what you vote for, ie; nothing new.
tlttf- Banned
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
The duty of an opposition party is to oppose. Which part of that sentence is difficult to understand?
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Excellent piece regarding how education is perceived by labour and the unions?
The Tory nationalisation that Labour’s fighting
When a good private school opens its doors to all, why isn’t Labour celebrating?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8959751/the-tory-nationalisation-that-labours-fighting/
The Tory nationalisation that Labour’s fighting
When a good private school opens its doors to all, why isn’t Labour celebrating?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8959751/the-tory-nationalisation-that-labours-fighting/
tlttf- Banned
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
It isn’t “excellent” at all, but a typically grubby piece of blatant Tory propaganda, full of half-truths and lies. No doubt that doesn’t bother you, with your relentless obsession with the Labour Party, even though it’s not in power at the moment. I suppose your aim is to distract attention from the corruption and incompetence of the most vicious government in living memory, but you won’t succeed.tlttf wrote:-
Excellent piece regarding how education is perceived by labour and the unions?
The Tory nationalisation that Labour’s fighting
When a good private school opens its doors to all, why isn’t Labour celebrating?
At least your article from ‘The Spectator’ made me laugh when I read: “In the days when it won elections, Labour tried to be on the side of progress”. Excuse me, but when did the Tories last win an election – 1992, wasn’t it? The article claims that Tynemouth is “one of the poorest areas of the country”. It isn’t, it’s a desirable and affluent small town. How can a private school have its doors “open to all”? That’s just a sick lie, because not everyone can attend it, there isn’t room. It will only benefit children whose parents can afford to live in the relatively expensive houses of Tynemouth, or those who take up short-term lets in the neighbourhood around about school selection time. How can that be described as “progress”?
“Nationalisation” this most certainly isn’t. The Tories are ideologically driven to fragment national institutions, whether it be the NHS or state education. Michael Gove, a journalist who was still being paid £60k a year by Rupert Murdoch for years after he stopped working for him, is one of the most rabid of all of them. Gove knows nothing about education but he has an agenda to privatise all schools by stealth, and that’s exactly what his free schools and the massive extension of Blair’s academy schools project are all about.
Let’s be clear on our defintions. Free schools in this country were started by Gove, making it possible for parents, teachers, charities - and of course businesses - to set up their own schools They are funded by taxpayers and are currently free to attend, but that shouldn’t be taken for granted. The National Union of Teachers is strongly opposed to free schools, because state funding is given to small groups of individuals to run schools that are unaccountable to their local communities. In Sweden, where the free schools policy originated, three-quarters of free schools are now run by profit-making companies, and there is clear evidence that they have resulted in segregation.
Academies are schools directly funded by the government and independent of local authority control. And here’s the thin end of the wedge – an academy may receive additional support from personal or corporate sponsors. Rupert Murdoch was showing great interest in sponsoring at least one school in London. Your article mentions that North Tyneside council is building three new secondary schools, but it conveniently fails to add that local authorities which need to create a new school must in most circumstances seek proposals for an academy or free school. They can only propose a traditional community school if no suitable free school or academy proposal is proposed. In other words, Gove is forcing schools out of local democratic control. If a school is judged to be performing badly – and we all know how Gove downgraded some GCSE results to make that more likely – it can be forced to convert to an academy.
So, please, let’s have no more shyte from ‘The Spectator’ about the Tories being on the side of parents and teachers. They’re not on the side of the vast majority of parents and they’re hated, with good reason, by most teachers. Their education policy is just another strand of their asset-stripping of the state for the benefit of their corporate backers. Care for a school, Mr Murdoch?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tynemouth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_school_(England)
http://www.teachers.org.uk/freeschools
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_(English_school)
http://www.teachers.org.uk/academies
Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
That's a long way round to say you think education is moving in the right direction and that the only thing holding back progress is a labour counsellor who just happens to be a member of NUT. I am of course assuming you took the time to read it Ivan?
tlttf- Banned
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
tlttf. Do you live in a parallel universe? You clearly haven't read a word of my posting (too long, was it?).
It ought to be obvious, even to you, that I read 'The Spectator' article, because I've quoted from it several times.
It ought to be obvious, even to you, that I read 'The Spectator' article, because I've quoted from it several times.
boatlady- Former Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Power corrupts. Provide some MPs with a Ministerial Car and they begin to regard the electorate as The Little People.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
This is where education went wrong for so many in the '50's and '60's
boatlady- Former Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Name an Education Minister of any political persuasion who has not meddled with the schooling of British children, upon taking office.
It's like a man with a bonfire, (or its cousin the barbecue) - they just can't resist poking at it with a stick.
It's like a man with a bonfire, (or its cousin the barbecue) - they just can't resist poking at it with a stick.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Can I suggest Estelle Morris? She was a teacher at an inner-city comprehensive school in Coventry before becoming an MP in 1992. In June 2001, Blair appointed her (not some Murdoch hack who has no expertise in the subject) as Secretary of State for Education. Sadly, unlike the many incompetents in the current government, she thought she wasn’t up to the job and resigned in October 2002.Name an Education Minister of any political persuasion who has not meddled with the schooling of British children, upon taking office.
Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Quite right, Ivan. I hadn't forgotten about the unlucky Estelle Morris, it's probably that I just don't enjoy being reminded how difficult it must be for truly decent people to survive in the Westminster hothouse.
If anyone else needs to be reminded, here's a link to a Guardian report contemporary to the beginning of 2003.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/jan/09/schools.uk
If anyone else needs to be reminded, here's a link to a Guardian report contemporary to the beginning of 2003.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/jan/09/schools.uk
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
As a teacher educator, Gove is trying to get rid of people like me. I must be doing something right.
Natacha- Guest
Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
You are undoubtedly correct in your assumption, Natacha. Probably the only practical advice is to adopt protective colouration.
The tall poppies get harvested first.
The tall poppies get harvested first.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Nice to see you Natacha.
I suspect you're right - if the nasty little Gove wants to get rid of you - you must be doing LOTS right - time to hide
I suspect you're right - if the nasty little Gove wants to get rid of you - you must be doing LOTS right - time to hide
boatlady- Former Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
School Reforms: Teenagers Forced To Stay On At School Until They Pass English And Maths GCSEs
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/02/teens-forced-stay-school-pass-english-maths-gcses_n_3854837.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
This of course was announced on the day that the school leaving age was raised to 17 with the further increase to 18 still yet to come.........
Will this help our children or is it just another hair-brained Gove idea?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/02/teens-forced-stay-school-pass-english-maths-gcses_n_3854837.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
This of course was announced on the day that the school leaving age was raised to 17 with the further increase to 18 still yet to come.........
Will this help our children or is it just another hair-brained Gove idea?
astradt1- Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Look out for unruly behaviour in the higher forms.
Forcing kids to stay on at school will be seen by them as a punishment and will in my opinion undermine any motivation most of them have for studying.
Kids who can't pass their matriculation at 16 probably aren't ready yet, and chaining them to their desks for another year isn't going to make them more ready.
Much better would be for school leavers to have a shot at work, and later, once they realise their lack of basic skills is holding them back, another shot at education.
I know several people who were 'failures' in school, but later return to education with a more mature approach and ace the exams.
People develop at different rates.
Forcing kids to stay on at school will be seen by them as a punishment and will in my opinion undermine any motivation most of them have for studying.
Kids who can't pass their matriculation at 16 probably aren't ready yet, and chaining them to their desks for another year isn't going to make them more ready.
Much better would be for school leavers to have a shot at work, and later, once they realise their lack of basic skills is holding them back, another shot at education.
I know several people who were 'failures' in school, but later return to education with a more mature approach and ace the exams.
People develop at different rates.
boatlady- Former Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Must help to reduce the youth unemployment figures though. We seem to be moving human life up a bracket at regular intervals. Where school used to finish at 14 years of age it is now 17/18. First home purchased at age 25 is now at 40 - work until you're 70 and then succumb to dementia.
Always look on the bright side of Life ....
Always look on the bright side of Life ....
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
It's beiung so cheery as keeps you going isn't it OW?
boatlady- Former Moderator
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
Life is just a bowl of cherries.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
School districts face places shortage
http://www.itv.com/news/2013-09-03/shortage-of-primary-school-places-as-free-schools-open/
As many as two in three councils could see more children looking to start primary school in their area by September 2016 than there are currently places for, the Local Government Association (LGA) said.
Are babies being born at the age of 2 now?
Why else would this come as a surprise?
http://www.itv.com/news/2013-09-03/shortage-of-primary-school-places-as-free-schools-open/
As many as two in three councils could see more children looking to start primary school in their area by September 2016 than there are currently places for, the Local Government Association (LGA) said.
Are babies being born at the age of 2 now?
Why else would this come as a surprise?
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is Michael Gove a dangerous egomaniac who is ruining UK education?
It was breathtaking to hear that arrogant little Murdoch runt Gove claiming on the R4 ‘Today’ programme yesterday that it was “all Labour’s fault” that there is a shortage of primary school places. As OW says, babies aren’t born at the age of two, so what the hell has the incompetent halfwit been doing for the last three-and-a-quarter years?
Answers:-
1. Gove scrapped Labour’s ‘Building Schools for the Future’ programme. Enough said.
2. Because Gove is so ideologically driven in his hatred of all things public, he’s diverted money from the general fund for state schools into opening free schools, often in areas where schools are not needed.
3. As a perfect example of a 'disaster capitalist', he has contrived to downgrade exam results under the guise of "raising standards", so that more schools can be deemed failures and taken out of the state sector. In other words, he's taken his eye off the ball and neglected the most basic requirement of his job - providing enough school places.
Before the Tories came to power, Gove said that he would only allow ‘good honours graduates’ to become teachers. Now he's in office, his free schools allow unqualified people to teach. Not only that, a 27-year-old who had previously worked for him is now a head teacher in a free school – without any teaching experience whatsoever. Gove also has no experience of teaching, but he thinks he’s an expert on education. In reality, he's just one of those people (like Hunt) who Cameron has to keep onside - for some inexpicable reason which hopefully will come out in the wash one of these days.
Answers:-
1. Gove scrapped Labour’s ‘Building Schools for the Future’ programme. Enough said.
2. Because Gove is so ideologically driven in his hatred of all things public, he’s diverted money from the general fund for state schools into opening free schools, often in areas where schools are not needed.
3. As a perfect example of a 'disaster capitalist', he has contrived to downgrade exam results under the guise of "raising standards", so that more schools can be deemed failures and taken out of the state sector. In other words, he's taken his eye off the ball and neglected the most basic requirement of his job - providing enough school places.
Before the Tories came to power, Gove said that he would only allow ‘good honours graduates’ to become teachers. Now he's in office, his free schools allow unqualified people to teach. Not only that, a 27-year-old who had previously worked for him is now a head teacher in a free school – without any teaching experience whatsoever. Gove also has no experience of teaching, but he thinks he’s an expert on education. In reality, he's just one of those people (like Hunt) who Cameron has to keep onside - for some inexpicable reason which hopefully will come out in the wash one of these days.
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» What is the purpose of education?
» Atheism versus God
» Mind your language, Minister: 'war' and primary education
» Should sex education just consist of telling teenagers to abstain?
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