What is the purpose of education?

“Why, mummy?” “What’s that for, daddy?” How many parents feel like tearing their hair out when confronted by an endless stream of questions from a toddler, yet at the same time knowing they must satisfy the child’s natural curiosity? But what happens to that enquiring mind? How many adults question what's going on around them? Shouldn’t an important purpose of education be to prolong the natural curiosity of the child into adulthood?

I remember two teachers in particular from my schooldays. There was a brutal English teacher, who would hit you if you made the same spelling mistake twice. At least I don’t make many spelling mistakes. On the positive side, I remember a brilliant History teacher who taught you to question everything. He started by giving us the same news story as reported in ‘The Daily Mail’ and ‘The Guardian’, asking us to account for the differences, then he did the same with articles written by different historians on the same topic. He produced photographs (I remember in particular an Edwardian alley scene) and asked us to look for the unwitting testimony in them. His idea of education was to continually ask the question “Why?”

Writing in his blog, Mark Berthelemy has argued that schools today take children - who are literally "born learners" - and educate the ability to learn out of them, by forcing them through the sausage-machine that is our "education system". Lou McGill asks: “How can we expect people to be creative, if we expect them all to achieve certain set targets, and disparage certain areas of learning as less important than others?” Berthelemy went on to say that education should be “about encouraging the creative minds we're born with, and developing them - not stifling them”, and “looking out for injustice and not accepting it”.
http://www.learningconversations.co.uk/main/index.php/2011/02/09/what-is-the-purpose-of?blog=5

In the latter part of the nineteenth century, teachers were remunerated under a scheme known as “payment by results”, which politicians boasted would either be efficient or cheap. One inherent weakness in that arrangement was that teachers only taught children to the level of passing the test and failed to develop their full potential. But have we reverted to that system of teaching now? The introduction of the National Curriculum in 1988 brought with it a plethora of tests as children moved from one level to another. At a recent debate to launch Compass’ e-book ‘Education For the Good Society’, Leicester University lecturer Dr. Katy Layton-Jones spoke of the emergence of "a terrified generation" who had been brought up on education for the test and were frightened to engage with ideas.
http://www.compassonline.org.uk/news/item.asp?n=13891

Josie Fraser, a social and educational technologist, has argued that a fundamental purpose of education should be “to acknowledge the inevitability of change, celebrate the value of life as a thing in process, and promote an awareness of other ways of doing things - of discoveries yet to be made and solutions yet to be invented". She continued: “The purpose of education should be to expand expectations, not to confine them - to support our learners in understanding the impact they can have on their world".
http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6075468

Others will argue that the purpose of education is to provide what the economy needs. Some of us will reply that the best thing for the country is if as many people as possible achieve their potential and at the same time create something. Berthelemy concludes that the purpose of education in our current society is to become better than other people, but that instead it should be about achieving our individual potential. It should be about helping each other to find out what we are good at, and developing those skills/gifts/talents. Not to be better than someone else, but to be as good as we can get.

Everyone has an opinion on "Education" because most adults have had one - at least in theory. What no British Government has ever achieved is recognition of the principle of "Horses for Courses" in the structure of State Education.
In a sense it hasn't mattered, because the children of the wealthy and/or aspirational aren't sent to State schools. The result has been that all of the present Government front-bench are the product of a Private education.

Could there be a message there????

Logic suggests that State Schools should be forced to operate under the supervision of a Private educational establishment.

Logic suggests that State Schools should be forced to operate under the supervision of a Private educational establishment.

Private educational establishments are run via tuition payments. A nation cannot have a compulsory primary and secondary educational system and have schools run by private enterprise. That would be a violation of the US Constitution as citizens cannot be made to compulsorily purchase products or services from a private business - as those who are opposed to Obama's health care bill have readily pointed out. Perhaps the same law does not not exist in Britain.

However, there are many other pitfalls inherent in such a design. Here are some examples:

** It would create a society fraught with de facto segregation based on socioeconomic class
** It would hinder upward mobility
** Employers would "look down" upon the lower-end schools and hire only from middle to upper-end schools
** The quality of education would be decidedly unequal (when coupled with point 1 above, see Brown v. Board of Education)
** It would drastically increase personal debt as parents scrounge to find ways to pay for it
** Schools catering to poorer students might seek corporate sponsorship, resulting in undue corporate influence over what is taught
** All parents would have to provide their children with transportation to and from school
** The poorest parents couldn't afford it at all, thus trapping the children in a cycle of generational poverty
** Teachers may be inclined to teach children only how to operate within their socioeconomic class

Then the Class system is alive, well, thriving and encouraged.

oftenwrong. It’s not quite true to say that all members of the government front bench were privately educated. Alexander, Hammond, Spelman and Warsi went to comprehensive schools, and several others went to grammar schools, but more than half of Cameron’s Cabinet went to private schools (compared to only 7% of the population).

I don’t see how your idea of state schools operating under private school supervision would be of any use (was that a tongue-in-cheek suggestion?). Private schools get better results because with about ten pupils in a class instead of thirty, the teachers can spend more time on them and mark more of their work. The parents of the pupils are almost certain to be highly motivated and will recognise the value of education if they’re pumping thousands of pounds into it. Give the state schools enough money to have drastically smaller class sizes and you won’t need help from private schools.

I agree that everyone claims to know something about education because we all went to school, most of us have had children who went to school, and some of us have grandchildren who are in the school system right now. My “opinion” is that half-terms should be abolished and there should be four ten-week terms, each followed by a holiday of about three weeks. I also think that any form of selection at the age of eleven is wrong, that schools should be divided into primary (ages 5-9) and middle (ages 9-14). At 14 each child should choose whether to pursue an academic or vocational education until at least the age of 18. There’s no point in adding any of them to the workforce when (a) they aren’t skilled, and (b) there aren’t any jobs, especially as the oldies are being made to work longer. Still, I digress, that wasn’t the subject of this thread.

So what are the things we really need to learn? Stephen Downes of the National Research Council of Canada has offered us a list of ten items:-
1. How to predict consequences
2. How to read and understand
3. How to distinguish truth from fiction
4. How to empathize
5. How to be creative
6. How to communicate clearly
7. How to learn
8. How to stay healthy
9. How to value yourself
10. How to live meaningfully

For the entire article and Downes’ detailed explanation of each of those ten points:-
http://www.downes.ca/post/38502

Hello, Ivan:

Number 10 on his list is controversial. Who decides what "living meaningfully" actually means? What parameters are there? What rubric would be used to know if a student learned how to live "meaningfully?" How do you test it? For some, "meaningfully" might mean spirituality and religion. For others, it might mean productivity and earning potential. And for still others, it might mean a life of charity, good works, volunteerism, and community service. There is no single answer to those questions, and I doubt a school is the place to learn what "meaningful" is. That is something each person has to discover themselves.

Interestingly, Downes did not mention a key point - how to live in a society of "others." This would include teaching students not to bully, problem resolution, diplomacy, and a bit of psychology. While I suppose some of this would fall under empathy and communication, both of which Downes included, but there needs to be a focus on this. In addition, critical thinking needs to be on that list, as well. Heavy, heavy doses of critical thinking, something I believe is lacking in Western schools. I think the "powers that be" avoid instituting critical thinking into the curriculum because critical thinking also includes being critical of authority - and we wouldn't want that, now would we? However, a society that lacks this skill is easily brainwashed and indoctrinated by dogma and decrees sent down from "on high," and that has never boded well for any society.

As for education in general, I don't believe in "useless knowledge." There simply is no such thing. I am a firm believer in "knowledge is power." I have a wide range of educational experiences - I've gone to school on four continents and in three distinct cultures; I've attended private religious schools, tough inner-city schools, rural country schools, suburban schools - you name it, I've been there. I also have a degree in secondary education - social studies, and I taught, albeit briefly, US History to 7th graders. And I have found that sooooo many people do not think or analyze nearly enough.

But I have found during my own adventures in life that even knowledge that seems utterly useless and trivial can suddenly resurface as something meaningful later on. I remember once walking through a mall, and a science store was offering a $10 gift certificate to the first person who knew what city boasts the world's largest subway system. I knew the answer was Moscow - don't ask me WHY I knew - and won 10 bucks. LOL! You just never know!

"I knew the answer was Moscow - don't ask me WHY I knew"

If you're asked the same question again, the answer now is apparently Shanghai.

FURY AT ‘BRAINWASHING’ PLAN FOR EU CITIZENSHIP LESSONS IN EVERY SCHOOL

Thursday September 29,2011

By Macer Hall, Political Editor


CHILDREN could be forced to attend compulsory lessons in “European citizenship” under draconian plans drawn up by Euro-MPs in Brussels, it emerged last night.

Read more: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/274330/Fury-at-brainwashing-plan-for-EU-citizenship-lessons-in-every-school
=====================================

Polls consistently show the majority of British want the UK to withdraw from EU, and one place to change that is by brainwashing our children.

Quote from reader comment I believe well worth posting here:

BRAINWASHING OUR YOUNG

29.09.11, 11:51am

The EU has so many parallels with a copy of an exceedingly nasty tome that I have. Brainwash the young from the start of their education and you have an inbuilt client base ready to indoctrinate the next generation and so on, ad infinitum. This publication details every facet of life as it should be ordered for the good of 'The Party' and therefore the people. It is militarised to the Nth degree and infiltrates every pore with its fungal like growth. This was written in 1933 and translated into English prior to 1939, maybe you have guessed its name:- Organisationsbuch Der National Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP) or The National Socialist German Workers Party I.E. The NAZI Party!!! The tome is the handbook of that repulsive entity. It was very similar in its aims to the Communist Party agenda. People from both despicable dictatorships were involved at the start of the EU socialist experiment so it is obvious where the policies and methods of the EU came from. They realised that the 'Horses' would be sent into a panic if the agenda was put into place in its entirety at the beginning, so they implimented each policy piecemeal, utilising propaganda and the vision of pleasant 'harmony' until they reached the present state of aceptability, where they now just issue dictats and directives backed up by various dubious legal agreements entered into by failed national politicos and self serving beaurocrats, all on a jolly good earner. The only way to release Britain and its population from this anti democratic straight jacket is to leave it completely. There is no way that we as a nation can change its policies from the inside as we will be outvoted everytime. Any of our polititians who think otherwise are living in La La land, have no real allegience to our country, and should be given the heave ho at the earliest oportunity. Cameron should be replaced with a genuine sceptic and truly loyal Brit with full allegience to the crown and constitution and a general election should be called with the main policy of immediate divorce from the dictatorial EU. They will gain a full working majority and be rid of the EU loving Liberals and incompetant self serving Labour.

No doubt Britain's little jobsworths will take such an edict to heart, and replace maths and english with citizenship in the curriculum.

Other Countries will put it onto their statute book as an obligation to be observed on alternate Tuesdays in Octember.

The purpose of education as i see it is to prepare children for the adult life. The best possible education a child could get would be how to start their own business.

There are tons of retired people sitting on money, why not start their own business for their children. They will get more than the rates banks offer, and will stimulate the economy. The state doesn't do it, the rich don't do it, yet there is a way forwards into economic prosperity.

If we were to take all the young adults of today, identify the markets for needs, and get this all onto paper, i am sure there is a way out of this. Impress the parents with the money, get jobs for the youth. I am sure too, that money that is wasted on colledge could be put into a new business, and i am also sure a commission could be set up to identify these markets and help them set it up. Taxpayer money coming back to the tax payer.

Education has zero renumeration. It all gets hoarded by the big bosses and is not spent. This means it is actually better off if they were to ban colledge education! You never need colledge education anyways, you always get a job and only then get relevant training! I saw a guy come into my factory once where i worked and he spent all of two months using his skills on the white board pretending to know what he was doing. He had a degree and everything. Then he left and the post was closed. He didn't know what to do because he hadn't recieved training on the particular job itself. What a waste of time.

"what is the purpose of education" is a very general question and there are different ways to achieve the same results.
 
My children spent their childhood in the UK, attended state schools, till up to the age of 9 and 10.
I was so appalled and horrified
that I decided to move to Germany.
Iam absolutely pleased with the schools they attend now,
and it was one of the best decisions I´ve made in my life!
I myself teach, part time.
I´ve taught in UK state schools as well as in France and Spain.
Teaching? I enjoy it. - in any country, less the UK. I´d rather hang myself!

Is basic education a citizens right, should the state provide basic education upto the age of around 11, or should it be a commodity which should be paid for by those that require it. ?

Lets be honest about this, many Americans and some British people believe that health care is a commodity, something which has a price tag on, and if you want it then you have to pay for it.

So whats the difference between the state providing good standard education, and the state providing good standard health care. ?

Where in The Bible does it say that "money is the key to everything"

I bring this point up because most Republicans in the United States are bitterly opposed to state health care, but would they be opposed to doing away with state education, imagine how much tax money could be saved.

Whatever the perceived shortcomings of our Educational system, an absence thereof would inevitably produce a return to Dickensian conditions with bands of Fagin-style thieves and pickpockets marauding the streets.

oftenwrong wrote:-
Whatever the perceived shortcomings of our Educational system, an absence thereof would inevitably produce a return to Dickensian conditions with bands of Fagin-style thieves and pickpockets marauding the streets.

Ahem where were you in the recent riots which produced just this type of behaviour in an even worse form apart from that mobile phone and pocket money theft is rife amongst the little ankle biters

Ivan wrote:
I remember two teachers in particular from my schooldays.  There was a brutal English teacher, who would hit you if you made the same spelling mistake twice. At least I don’t make many spelling mistakes.  On the positive side, I remember a brilliant History teacher who taught you to question everything.  He started by giving us the same news story as reported in ‘The Daily Mail’ and ‘The Guardian’, asking us to account for the differences, then he did the same with articles written by different historians on the same topic.  He produced photographs (I remember in particular an Edwardian alley scene) and asked us to look for the unwitting testimony in them.  His idea of education was to continually ask the question “Why?”

 

Both teachers were excellent.

One discipline, grammar, is strict of necessity. God only knows the considerable consternation caused by English speakers in five English as a first language nations, in alphabetical order, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UIK, and the US, to other English speakers in the four nations not their own, by the correct inconsistent spellings and grammatical conventions practices therein. For instance, y’all (UK) say “maths”, travellers”, “metre”, “neighbour”, “colour”, “humour”, “honour”, and “harbour”, all of which my spell check identifies as incorrect. Confusing enough without each individual laying claim to her/his own spelling.

The other discipline, history, is a social science, the scholarly study and promulgation of which requires an inquiring mind. As a student of history, it amazes me that certain historical truths taught today were virtually unknown mere decades ago, a blip in time, yet an eon ago insofar as what is being taught.

Each of your teachers brought to the table that which empowered their common student, you. Today, Ivan practice excellent grammar and spelling, and Ivan delves into history with inquiring scholarship, and that, my friend, segues directly into the authoritative answer to your initiating question. Education is empowerment of those previously unempowered.

I bring this point up because most Republicans in the United States are bitterly opposed to state health care, but would they be opposed to doing away with state education, imagine how much tax money could be saved.

Actually, teachers have become one of the Republican's favorite targets now. Anyone who works for the government is a target, but in good ole true conservative fashion, they zero in on those who make the least amount of money (i.e. teachers) as a major cause to our economic woes.

Meanwhile, in 2010, Obama passed the largest defense spending bill in American history.

Given the general failure of 'religion', the purpose of education is to familiarise us with the best that humanity has achieved so far and the ability to criticize its its current efforts intelligently. As with religion, capitalism will constantly try to colonise this area and render it 'useful' - to the bosses. A good education will point attention towards this threat too.

"the best that humanity has achieved so far"


Things .... can only get better ....

Today's Sunday Times reports that Michael Gove, supported by nine other senior tories, wants responsibility for the Universities, which currently fall under the jurisdiction of the Minister for Business, Liberal-Democrat Vince Cable.

An interesting debate folks !

As I come from Scotland I am always tempted to compare the Scottish education system with the rest of the world.

At one time the "free" Scottish educational system used to be the envy of the world but over the recent years, ( probably caused by interference and change for change's sake ), it has been watered down and is now a poor shadow of what it once used to be.

Recently, another change was brought about that completely mixed up the teaching of the three "R"s and that was called The Curriculum for Excellence. Many teachers up here are still not fully trained in order to implement this new and radical way of teaching children and a lot of them are angry about this idea being foisted onto them.

Since Cameron and his cronies banged up the university fees and they were scrapped in Scotland - for the Scots - we have seen the intake to English Welsh and Irish universities drop markedly.

As part of the ethos of the British welfare state - that we are all supposed to live in here - it was originally decided that health and education would be free at point of need, but over the years we have seen both of these wonderful institutions being privatised by stealth.

I am sure that the Americans that read and write to this forum-set will know exactly what I mean when they examine what has happened to free education and health in that great country.

I really don't want Britain to become a bad copy of what is happening and has happened already in America and to this end I think that the next government that we elect should try it's hardest to return Britain to a true Welfare State kind of country.

Don't get me wrong, I am not against the ethic of privatisation where it is truly disconnected from the state, and I think it is fair that if people are well-off that they should have their private education and their private health-care so long as this private sector does not parasite off the public sector, ( as it certainly does at the moment ).

Regards.....

Papaumau

In order to make money in a number of careers, one needs to know how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide whole numbers, fractions, and decimals

Actually, in terms of careers, one needs to know how to use a calculator. A business isn't going to hand you a sheet of paper and a pencil to calculate the trajectory of the next mission to Neptune.

A calculator doesn't buzz when you've just pressed "divide" instead of "multiply".

The educated human brain will neverthless recognise that $10 is not equivalent to €120, so will suggest a further computation to an intelligent user.

The problem also occurs when cooking Sunday Lunch. The thermal probe piercing your leg of lamb can still read "underdone" four hours after it has incinerated, because mechanical things have no intelligence.

Yes folks, there is no doubt that instead of being our servants, machines have in some cases, become our masters.

While I have to agree that all young people should be calculator and computer literate BEFORE they are thrown into this cruel world to sink or swim, I still think that much of this learning should be done at the eventual place of work and not in the school that is supposed to be teaching the basic 3 "R"s.

There is only so much that is not job-specific that we can teach young people and being able to do many calculations in ones head and to be able to read, understand and write the native language, ( and surprisingly only English if you want to go round the world via an internet-enabled computer ), has to be the most important parts of basic education.

After the importance of these basic knowledge-packs have been put into the heads of the children they then also have to be educated in home and world geography, in home and world history and they also have to have a knowledge of The Arts if they are to become rounded individuals.

If the teaching of children and young adults is made to become too generic, ( as I suggest is the case in the Scottish Curriculum for Excellence ), then we are going to have a lot of young people who have simply not been given the tools that they will need to go on to college and university and to then specialise in the career that will make them into fully shaped citizens.

Regards....

Papaumau.

A calculator doesn't buzz when you've just pressed "divide" instead of "multiply".

I think it's a good thing that everyone be taught how to divide, multiply, divide, subtract, use decimal places, balance a checkbook - that kind of thing - without a calculator. But the reality is that a business is not going to have you waste their time doing long division when a few button presses will solve the problem more quickly - and more accurately. The human brain doesn't buzz either unless there is a huge discrepancy in what the number should be. However, there is a greater chance for a human to screw up by forgetting to carry the 1 than there is of hitting divide instead of multiply.

Unless we want to train our kids for some post-apocalyptic world with no computers and calculators, it is much more beneficial to teach kids how to use tools rather than how to be the tool.

It's still nice to have education as a back-stop.

For at least thirty years, Military technicians have been able to "jam" all electronic activity in a specified area. Nothing reliant upon a microchip will work. That's an awful lot of useless apparatus, from kitchen-timers through telephones and on up to computers.

There is a surprising disparity between Countries as to how much a child is required to "know". Obvious cultural differences like not learning your 11-times and 12-times tables when you live in a decimal environment. English schools in particular have a numbing dumbing-down attitude, where students are not taught the subject, they are taught how to pass the exam in that subject.
On a visit to Spain, I was astonished to realise that the man I was in conversation with had done a long-division calculation in his head.

oftenwrong wrote:It's still nice to have education as a back-stop.

For at least thirty years, Military technicians have been able to "jam" all electronic activity in a specified area. Nothing reliant upon a microchip will work. That's an awful lot of useless apparatus, from kitchen-timers through telephones and on up to computers.

So glad I've held onto my Slide Rule

In linguistics, numerous studies have confirmed that children during the first five years of their lives can learn not only their parents' language but almost any other language to which they are regularly exposed, up to three, four or five languages which they can use independently without intermingling the idioms for as long as they continue to receive the stimulus of hearing the language being used around them.

That facility dwindles after the age of five, and most children drop into the habit of using a single language thereafter.

In linguistics, numerous studies have confirmed that children during the first five years of their lives can learn not only their parents' language but almost any other language to which they are regularly exposed

My mother said I invented my own language before I learned to actually speak one. I never really thought of it that way, but it was true as I can still remember some of the "nonsense" words I used. My mother said she understood me perfectly even though I was speaking "Shirinaese." I think a lot of parents dismiss this as "baby talk" when, in reality, these young children really are trying to say something. I doubt I was alone in doing what I did.

I relate this to provide compelling evidence, and thereby establish as fact, that almost all 3rd grade students can learn to multiply whole numbers perfectly.

Also very true. By the time I was out of 3rd grade, I knew how to add/subtract/multiply/divide all whole numbers up to 12. This is one of the few instances when rote learning is actually both beneficial and effective. I had a pretty strict teacher in 3rd grade. Just before recess she would pull out the flash cards and whoever didn't answer his/her problem correctly had to sit inside. That made us really want to learn those multiplication tables!

Shirina wrote:
By the time I was out of 3rd grade, I knew how to add/subtract/multiply/divide all whole numbers up to 12. This is one of the few instances when rote learning is actually both beneficial and effective. I had a pretty strict teacher in 3rd grade. Just before recess she would pull out the flash cards and whoever didn't answer his/her problem correctly had to sit inside. That made us really want to learn those multiplication tables!

 

Shirina,

You were well taught by a fine educator.

According to that insidious creep Gove, it would seem that the purpose of education is to promote Rupert Murdoch's interests:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/feb/26/schools-crusade-gove-murdoch?CMP=twt_gu

IVAN.....

This story seems to hinge on a meeting in 2010 before the hacking scandal broke and nothing has happened since then...So what's your story here???

Is that the Tories had a relationship with the Murdoch press, as did New Labour. Does Gove warning that inhibiting the freedom of the press would be damaging cheese you off (and do you disagree) or is it that you have learnt from the New Labour spin machine and just rolled out old, out dated and irrelevant news because you are clutching at straws

It would be as surpising to find that an assortment of Tory Ministers were up to their necks in quietly furthering the interests of their various 'chums' , as it would to find a queue of kids at a sweet shop offering free toffee...