Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

First topic message reminder :

Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010. It certainly looks as though the Conservatives have recieved a boost from David Cameron’s veto at the European summit. There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck. How is it that the tories can be level or ahead in the polls when they are having to make some very difficult and painfull decisions to try and bring down the deficit, the umemployment figures are the worst for 17 years. We have had strikes, pension reforms, VAT rises and the veto in Europe etc.......

It looks like Ed Millaband is not liked or trusted by many of the elecorate. In my opinion he looks weak, sounds weak and has no policies to speak of....Everytime he tries to get the better of Cameron in PMQ'S he ends looking like a fool with Cameron destroying him. Ed Balls is no better...he comes across as an odious man with no substance, who would probably stab his own wife in the back if it meant he gained more power.

Labour missed a trick in not voting in Eds brother David into the leadership role. David would have given Cameron a better run for his money and I believe he is a better politician than Ed too. With the two Eds at the helm I believe Labour are not a viable opposition right now and one or both could be dispatched by the party sooner rather than later

I'm well aware of the situation. You are talking of big businesses which make up a very small minority of companies in this country.
99% of businesses are SME's with 14.5 million employees and a turnover of £1.6m. Do you suggest these bosses are exhorbitantly paid. Way out in front are the 'micro' firms with less than 10 employees.
Larger businesses, by far fewer, have about 10m employees.

trevorw2539 wrote:I'm well aware of the situation. You are talking of big businesses which make up a very small minority of companies in this country.
99% of businesses are SME's with 14.5 million employees and a turnover of £1.6m. Do you suggest  these bosses are exhorbitantly paid. Way out in front are the 'micro' firms with less than 10 employees.
Larger businesses, by far fewer, have about 10m employees.

I agree that S & M business as a group employ a lot of people trevor2539, but what about the people on crap wages paid by companies right across the board its the tax payer that is picking up the Bill for poor wages being paid. There must be a way that we can cut the Welfare Bill do you have any idea how much of the Welfare bill goes on working tax credits housing benefit ect, as I would love to know the Tories are shouting about paying out unemployment benefit when it was there cuts to public services that caused some of the unemployment.

As for those that HAVE to take zero hour contracts or lose there unemployment benefit is nothing short of disgracefull, if the Tories and Fib-Dems want work to pay they will have to make sure people have jobs that pay decent wages. Otherwise the Welfare Bill will just continue to go through the roof and let the employers away with paying a wage that I was on in the 1980s £70.00 per week for 40 hour week I am sure you will be able to work out my hourly rate.

I only hope that the Labour party do get into power in May 2015, and yes I do know that the Labour party did not get it right some of the time but if England vote in the Tories at the 2015 general election there will be civil war in the UK. Osborne has already said he wants more cuts to the public sector of £25 billion if they get voted back into power in May 2015, and I have a good idea where that will come from I will leave you to make up yur mind where the Tories will cut ?? I know the Tories want the top rate of tax for there friends and Donors down too 40p in the £ or even less if the public allow them back into power in 2015, there is one thing I do know a Labour gov't would make sure that the rich and wealthy would be forced to pay there fair amount of tax unlike the Tories or Ukip forcing the low paid and poor to shoulder the Bill for the B(W)ankers greed of 2008.   

SME's undoubtedly form the majority numerically of British businesses, but of all businesses, 62.6 per cent (3.7 million) are sole proprietorships. Not much impact on unemployment there, then.

http://www.fsb.org.uk/stats

Redflag. Saving space by not quoting.

I agree £10 minimum wage would be good for workers - who were able to keep their jobs. Many small firms would go out of business at such a jump of around £3 ph. What small emoployers would like to pay, and what they can afford, are two different things. Without these people this country would be down the drain.
SME's turnover is £1.6 billion (not millions I printed in error), while large business
turnover 1.7b. These figures are for 2013 and things have improved all round since then.

Zero hour contracts are abominable and should be illegal.

I agree that the rich should pay their fair share of tax. But who decides what is fair?
Do you tax an entrepeneur who is willing to invest his money with exhorbitant taxes?
Perhaps drive him abroad? I really can't go into other factors, I swore long ago I would not get involved in this thread.

Your way, as far as I am concerned, never worked. Accepting that Communism is farther left, but that never worked. There was always the haves and the havenots.
The up and coming countries like China, India, Brazil etc all have their rich and poor.

The best anyone can do is to try to bring the two closer together.

oftenwrong wrote:SME's undoubtedly form the majority numerically of British businesses, but of all businesses, 62.6 per cent (3.7 million) are sole proprietorships.  Not much impact on unemployment there, then.

http://www.fsb.org.uk/stats

SME's employ 14.5 million. Large businesses employ 9.9 million.

Each individual is an employed person.

trevorw2539 wrote:Redflag.   Saving space by not quoting.

I agree £10 minimum wage would be good for workers - who were able to keep their jobs. Many small firms would go out of business at such a jump of around £3 ph. What small emoployers would like to pay, and what they can afford, are two different things.  Without these people this country would be down the drain.
SME's turnover is £1.6 billion (not millions I printed in error), while large business
turnover 1.7b. These figures are for 2013 and things have improved all round since then.

Zero hour contracts are abominable and should be illegal.

I agree that the rich should pay their fair share of tax. But who decides what is fair?
Do you tax an entrepeneur who is willing to invest his money with exhorbitant taxes?
Perhaps drive him abroad? I really can't go into other factors, I swore long ago I would not get involved in this thread.

Your way, as far as I am concerned, never worked. Accepting that Communism is farther left, but that never worked. There was always the haves and the havenots.
The up and coming countries like China, India, Brazil etc all have their rich and poor.

The best anyone can do is to try to bring the two closer together.

From my point of veiw the UK is already going down the DRAIN trevor2539 this nasty Tory gov't is making sure of where the UK will be in May 2015, heaven help what ever gov't gets into power in May 2015 (hoping its not Tory or a mixture of Tory + another right wing party Ukip for example). My way as you call it may I point out the majority of the people in the UK want the utilities and rail Re-Nationlized its around 68% from the last figures I have seen if it has decreased or went up I am not sure but a quick google would give the new figures.

Its not the fact that my way never worked have you ever wondered why ? IMHO its the people that stop it from working not that it can not work, when a shower of greedy backstuds are making sure it does not work trevor.   

Yet foreign countries are quite happy to invest in this country, creating more employment.
I would like to see the Utilities re-nationalised, to bring them back under Government control. But the problem often lies with the fact that we are not selfsufficient in any section of the power industry. Government control does not mean we can secure fuel more cheaply from abroad. We are in the hands of the producer.

Rail re-nationalisation will add billions to the tax burden in addition to the subsidies we already give.

Spending our way out of the crisis by excessive borrowing is just putting off the problem for our children to solve. Succesive Governments that we have voted in have got us deeper into debt. This years interest payments are around £55b
. More than the proposed HSL. Some debt is acceptable, excessive debt is a burden.

If you study human history you will know that from time immemorial their have been rich and poor. It will never change. The best that can be done is to bring the two closer together.

For all the turmoil in Russia in the last century with the destruction of the nobility, so-called equality of Communism, you now have a new elite - many of doubtful character.

I don't waste many tears on foreign investors, or indeed the entrepreneur "willing to invest his own money". There is no such thing as a profitable business with no risk attached. (If there were such a thing, everybody would be doing it). The Companies Acts of 1985 to 1989 allow Directors and shareholders to stand aside from any debts incurred by the Company itself, so it's only the poor bloody employees who lose everything when a Company fails.

Of course there's risk in every business venture. And on the other side the employees of a company that fails lose jobs that they would not have had if that company had not been set up. No one wants a company to fail, least of all the entrepeneur who may have put all his money, time and effort into building up that business - except conmen, of course.
Many of our big companies are foreign owned. Without foreign investment some would have folded. I don't like that fact either, but that's life. Some of our companies are moving into foreign markets, employing foreign labour. Swings and roundabouts.

Without entrepeneurs and people willing to take a chance a century and more ago, this country would not have been 'Great' Britain. Some of those entrepeneurs were concerned enough to provide housing and welfare for their employees.

trevorw2539 wrote:Yet foreign countries are quite happy to invest in this country, creating more employment.
I would like to see the Utilities re-nationalised, to bring them back under Government control. But the problem often lies with the fact that we are not selfsufficient in any section of the power industry. Government control does not mean we can secure fuel more cheaply from abroad. We are in the hands of the producer.

Rail re-nationalisation will add billions to the tax burden in addition to the subsidies we already give.

Spending our way out of the crisis by excessive borrowing is just putting off the problem for our children to solve. Succesive Governments that we have voted in have got us deeper into debt. This years interest payments are around £55b
. More than the proposed HSL. Some debt is acceptable, excessive debt is a burden.

If you study human history you will know that from time immemorial their have been rich and poor. It will never change. The best that can be done is to bring the two closer together.

For all the turmoil in Russia in the last century with the destruction of the nobility, so-called equality of Communism, you now have a new elite - many of doubtful character.

The only reason we are getting foreign investment is because it is cheaper with the tax breaks this Tory gov't is giving to these businesses plus zero hour contracts for its workers and they can recruit from the EU meaning they do not have to pay workers the MINIMUM WAGE

As for the railways the East Coast line is making profits some is going back in to upgrade or repair what is broken, as far as I am aware they also have handed £600 million back to the treasury, which in my eyes they have found a way to run the railways and make profit for the tax payer instead of giving private companies subsidies which more than likely go into there back pockets. As for HS2 I think we would be better to sort the problems of our existing railways before this luxury travel only for those that can afford to pay the high priced tickets in other words train travel for the ELITE of the UK.

As for spending our way out of "The Mess the Bankers got us into" Ed Miliband has spelt out how he will pay for the policies he will put before the people of the UK in May 2015, all I am hearing from you is Tory rethoric I am not saying we do not have to pay for what we have borrowed due to the bloody bankers greed in 2008. I think its about time they paid for what they did to the UK and the low paid sick and disabled get a better deal than this Tory gov't is giving them.

As for OUR NHS it was run successfully for the 13yrs of the Labour gov't because when they came into power in 1997 the waiting list for operations was 18 months, people where dying while awaiting their operatios and Tony Blair put a stop to that I am glad to say, I do not agree with all Tony did but he did give us a fairer society unlike this shower of backstuds that want to take another £25 billion from the workers of the UK.  

Negative Press criticism of the Labour Party was expected. What was unexpected is the effect it appears to be having on the Party itself, which is actually ahead in Poll ratings. The continuous attack on party leader Ed Miliband has however unsettled the very people he should be able to rely upon for support. In any case it is "Hobson's Choice" (i.e. no choice) so close to an Election.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/22/ed-miliband-leadership-policy-labour

There does seem to be a determined press campaign against him - despite all the infighting chez Tories, we never hear quite so much doom saying in the press about Cameron's leadership

I see a number of developments in the immediate and world arenas which might make Ed M glad when he is not elected as PM. It will probably signal the end of his political career, but he will find another role, as he is a personable and talented fellow.

Shall we see a triumphant return by his brother when a leadership election arises? Difficult while David M is elsewhere and has no Parliamentary seat. Maybe an interregnum while that is 'sorted' - or is David now too detached from any interest in that challenge?

Beware the next choice - it will be an especially crucial one. Chuka Umunna? Looks like a real talent, but would he make too big a target for the sly and subtle racism of the worst of the British Press?

Whatever is to happen, the Labour Party will have 5 years to get it right - if they can...

Phil Hornby wrote: ....

Whatever is to happen, the Labour Party will have 5 years to get it right - if they can...

.... or FIFTEEN as one amusing speculation in The Press had it yesterday.

oftenwrong wrote:

Phil Hornby wrote: ....

Whatever is to happen, the Labour Party will have 5 years to get it right - if they can...

.... or FIFTEEN as one amusing speculation in The Press had it yesterday.

Actually OW that 15 year quote came from David Plunkett which I think he should not made to the press even though he thought there was some truth in it, he would have been better to give Ed some postives for him to work on in the next 10 months up to the general election in May 2015.  

trevorw2539 wrote:-
£10 minimum wage is idealistic, accompanied by higher unemployment, or higher costs in either prices or benefit costs, etc. Great when the country can afford it, disaster when it can't. We lost our share of world markets by over pricing due to extortionate wage demands in past decades.

I can’t remember when I last read such a load of rubbish as that. You’ve obviously been well indoctrinated with Thatcherite claptrap. We can’t afford to pay the people who do the work, but of course we must give incentives to the idle rich to persuade them to invest in this country instead of sending their money to off-shore tax havens. If you’re going to peddle Tory propaganda, at least have the integrity to admit your party allegiance instead of pretending to sit on the fence.

The Tories opposed the introduction of a minimum wage in 1998, saying that it would lead to a recession that winter. It didn’t. 90% of Swiss workers earn more than CHF 22 (£15) an hour and are among the highest paid in the world. Has that caused mass unemployment and bankruptcies in Switzerland? No. The Scandinavian countries have some of the highest wages in the world, and are they bankrupt? No. Only an economic illiterate would fail to understand that high wages lead to increased spending and greater demand for goods and services, which in turn creates more work. If low wages are such a good thing, why are countries like the Philippines so poor?

Spending our way out of the crisis by excessive borrowing is just putting off the problem for our children to solve.

If borrowing is for investment in jobs and growth, it isn’t putting off the problem, it’s solving it. Far better to be paying people wages, so that they in turn can spend and pay taxes, than to squander money on benefits after cutting jobs. As to the nonsense about saddling our children with debt, the UK has been in the red for 250 of the last 300 years. For much of my lifetime we were paying off our post-war debt to the USA, but I can’t say that I noticed or lost any sleep over it.

For all the turmoil in Russia in the last century with the destruction of the nobility, so-called equality of Communism, you now have a new elite - many of doubtful character.

The so-called communism of the USSR certainly created its own elite via party membership, but it’s what happened after that drunken buffoon Yeltsin came to power which precipitated the vast inequality in Russia today. He sold off many state assets at knockdown prices to his cronies and made a number of them billionaires almost overnight. Now some of them are buying up our football clubs along with property in London, making housing in the capital unaffordable to much of the indigenous population.

One might reasonably expect a Government which is composed of elected representatives of The People, to have the interests of all those people at its heart, in equal measure.

The present Tory administration however is mainly concerned to meet the desire of Big Business to have a cowed and compliant work force readily available at all times.

OW - spot on

oftenwrong wrote:One might reasonably expect a Government which is composed of elected representatives of The People, to have the interests of all those people at its heart, in equal measure.

The present Tory administration however is mainly concerned to meet the desire of Big Business to have a cowed and compliant work force readily available at all times.

I am not cowed or compliant OW I have never been nor am I ever to be cowed & compliant, with the Unions I do not think that this idea from the Tory party will work because it has happened before where do you think the rights we have now came from they came from our ancestors fighting the landed gentry as in the "Tolpuddle Martyrs" fight by the people of the UK to get them back from Australia it took 3 long years but they won in the end.

Today's Tory Press are cock-a-hoop with the news that the nation's economy is now better than it was before the recession, by a factor of 0.2%. The Office of National Statistics have said they will be recalculating the figures.

Shadow Treasurer Ed Balls has challenged the net effect on Britain outside London and the South-east, but should perhaps be wary of showing a sour-grapes attitude.

It is not sour grapes OW, Ed Balls is telling the reality of the growth in the economy. Working people are still having to go to foodbanks to feed there family, the only people that are benefitting from the growth in the economy are the same ones that have been making money since May 2010 just as the Tories planned it.

Welfare is a dirty word, used by the press to tarnish the reputations of those who have been victimised by monetarist policies. Welfare is actually a word that means safety and having enough to meet basic needs. The trouble with a global economy though is that workers in India will still be happy to earn a quid a week to make stuff that retails to us at much higher prices. If we want to keep high standards of living in the UK we must tax the 1% enough to top up wages for the bottom 10%, and expect everyone to value a fair taxation system that pays for decent hospitals, safe roads and a worthwhile welfare state. Internal circulation of money to pay for services and external balance of payments are 2 different things. Taxation, either direct or indirect, should allow development of small initiatives, while taxing the multi-nationals at full whack. Not under this government of course. Pre-election dinner parties put paid to that in 2010.
Never mind sour grapes just give us affordable policies that will balance the books please.

Good post methought, very well said and very true.

methought wrote:
Never mind sour grapes just give us affordable policies that will balance the books please.

If only this was a new situation which the People have to deal with.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04d8khr/melvyn-braggs-radical-lives-1-now-is-the-time-john-ball

The Peasant's Revolt of 1381 included many of what would now be termed Middle Class
people, who found their services in demand following the Black Death, which had decimated the numbers available for work. The response of the Landowners (including The Church) was to prohibit the movement of workers or the withdrawal of Labour.

The more things change, the more they stay as they are, even after six hundred years.

OW  What about the 1926 general strike that was the working class rising up against the bosses, I would prefer to do what the French did have a lovely BASTILLE day if we could borrow a spare Mr GUILLOTINE from Mr Hollande  

On this 100th. anniversary of the Start of The War to end all wars, commentators have informed us that 90% of current conflict, worldwide, is Civil War.

Do we really need another one, Redflag?

As for the topic heading, the problem in current Socialist ranks is not Ed Miliband, but the other Ed. A dinosaur in this electronic age.

Milliband actually seems to be shaping up, despite all the negative press coverage, to have dignity, personal credibility and I think has a chance to win in 2015.

If he does, I think he'll be one of the better prime ministers in our history - certainly, he usually seems to think before he speaks

[quote="oftenwrong"]On this 100th. anniversary of the Start of The War to end all wars, commentators have informed us that 90% of current conflict, worldwide, is Civil War.

Do we really need another one, Redflag?

As for the topic heading, the problem in current Socialist ranks is not Ed Miliband, but the other Ed.  A dinosaur in this electronic age.[/quot

I just do not get what everybody has against Ed Balls OW, at least he HAS a degree in Economics unlike Osborne who only has a 2/1 degree in Modern History. I know who I would trust with the tax money and it ain't Osborne.

Ed Balls is undoubtedly a useful bruiser to have around in a political scrap, Redflag, but as Economic Secretary, HM Treasury from May 2006 to Jun 2007, he became a clone of Gordon Brown and is now, like him, yesterday's man.

Until Gordon Brown became our PM his abilities were well suited to the job of Chancellor of Exchequer, you seem to forget what state our economics were like after 18 years of a Tory gov't handing out tax payers money to friends and donors of the Tory party (in gov't contracts).

I will agree as a PM Gordon Brown did not have what it takes to be PM, but as our chancellor of the exchequer he was good OW.

Gordon Brown certainly did the nation a big favour by keeping us out of the Euro, but he appropriated millions from the Pension funds, and you will no doubt recall his curious decision to sell our Gold reserves at a low point in the market.

The Labour party has already put their hands up to the mistakes they made during their 13 years in office OW, Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown were two of Labour's great Chancellors of the Exchequer.   I would rather take my chances with Ed Miliband and the Labour party than another 5 years of a Tory gov't, Osborne has already said he will take another £25 billion out of the public services you can bet a £ to  penny most of that will come out of Welfare payments just like they have over the last 4 years.    

I notice that both Scameron & Osborne are going around the country mostly the North handing out money for projects (AND THE BAND PLAYED BELIEVE IT IF YOU LIKE) as you know they promised that the NHS would be safe in their hands & VAT would not go up, in both of these and other promises they broke them along with most of what they had promised on the run up too the 2010 general election.

No wonder people do not trust ANY politician with the BLATANT LIES that has come out of there mouths, in the past 4 years they have added to the LIES, lying about the stats on everything from the economy to the unemployment figures. 

As you all know Ed Miliband and a lot of the Labour MPs asre up here in Glasgow I have just had phone call to let me know I have a ticket to get in to hear Ed Miliband speak tonight so this will not be as long post as I have got to get the glad rags on (need to be fit to be seen) and at last will be able to listen to Ed live not as I normally have to do watch him on tv.

I will need to see if any of the Newcastle Labour MPs are there see how the ladnd would lie about me moving to Newcastle if we get a yes vote here in Scotland.

Looking forward to hearing your impressions, Red

He is a great speaker boatlady he held the whole rooms attention while he spoke and got a standing ovation when he finished Gordon Brown surprised me he is a another great speaker like Ed he talks to you not at you. I have been trying for ages to get my daughter to come with me this time she came for all she will be voting NO next Thursday there was a couple of questions she want answers too because Salmond nor the SNP will give us any answers, with the SNP it is just cross everything and hope for the best something I am not willing to do.

Once I get this referendum done and we get a NO vote I can start to consentrate on the 2015 general election, and get rid of the Tory backstuds once and for all and elect a Labour gov't in 2015.

Both Milliband and Brown strike me as decent blokes who sincerely intend to operate in an ethical and accountable manner. I've never had the opportunity to see either of them in the flesh, so I'm always very interested to hear from people like yourself who have done.

Your comments do not surprise me - and I share your strong belief in the importance of electing a Labour government in 2015

I am like you boatlady never heard Ed speaking unless I watched the Laboour party conference on TV and he is even better live, and he did not disappoint me even my youngest daughter who is the polar opposite to me was enthralled by Ed.

I am just hoping Scotland votes NO next week so then I can get down to making sure we have a Labour gov't in power in May 2015.

Fingers crossed - be careful - it does seem passions may be high

Having seen the increasing tetchiness and desperation of Salmond during the past few days it would be of no surprise to me if he had a few heavies on hand here and there to 'enforce' his will to quieten the opposition.

it would indeed be good to see his recent confident insistence that "next Thursday Scotland will vote 'yes' " rammed back down his throat...

With something very large Phil, for a mouth that size!!!

Phil Hornby wrote:Having seen the increasing tetchiness and desperation of Salmond during the past few days it would be of no surprise to me if he had a few heavies on hand here and there to 'enforce' his will to quieten the opposition.

it would indeed be good to see his recent confident insistence that "next Thursday Scotland will vote 'yes' " rammed back down his throat...

You have worked out the truth about Salmond PH, I would not trust him as far as I could throw him, and I am expecting trouble at the polling stations on Thursday if what the yes campaigners did to Jim Murphy Labour MP businesses that has came out against the yes vote are been threatened by a day of reckoning. This type of thuggery no matter what Salmond or Sturgeon say the OK for this came from the top of the SNP party.

I am hoping that the NO campaign wins even by 1-2% will love to see his face on Friday morning I think it will be as long as a fiddle, I just hope the Tories do not do anything to Scotland if we vote NO.