Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Good god! What have we done?

Could very well be...

Check these links out!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1378400/Body-dead-alien-Siberia-claims-UFO-hurtling-earth.html

http://m24digital.com/en/2009/09/16/panama-youngsters-claim-to-have-killed-an-alien/

It was reported on www.lastest-ufo-sightings.net The we had another UFO sighting in Moscow.

Latest UFO sightings - This strange bright orbs were recorded over Krylatskoye in Moscow, Russia on Wednesday, 28th December 2011 with another with other strange activity in the sky was recorded in Paita, Peru on Thursday, 29th December 2011.

So do you believe there is any real truth in all of this? if yes what do you believe they seek from us?

My knowledge of UFOs is second only to my knowledge of military history. I've been studying the phenomenon for a long time and even wrote a couple of papers on them in college - much to the dismay of my professors. I could blather on and on about this subject, but given that it's almost 3am here, I'll simply say this:

After all of my research, I find the answer to be inconclusive. I believe in the possibility that UFOs are actually alien craft. I leave the door open for that. I'm certainly not going to say, "Oh, that's just silly" or laugh it off the way others with myopic worldviews may. There is no reason - NONE - that they couldn't be visiting here; even our science is not up to the task of disproving their existence, for all we can do is use what we currently know. An alien civilization that could be hundreds, or millions, of years ahead of us technologically, undoubtedly knows many, many things that we do not.

Shirina wrote:
I believe in the possibility that UFOs are actually alien craft…

 

And yet I’ve seen no ocular proof that aliens exist at all. Meanwhile, I’ve seen a UFO, personally, so there is no way to “explain away” what two other young men and I saw in the sky that December evening.

I’m not saying aliens do not exist; I’m not saying aliens exist. So far, none have made themselves known to me. I certainly cannot justify via what is considered solid science any expectation that aliens have visited, are visiting, or have visited our planet and/or our solar system; the speed of light has so far seemed to be the absolute speed limit, and that approaching infinite increase in mass as anything with mass approaches the speed of light seems insurmountable.

That was and is one of only two “axes to grind” which I have with the writers and producers of Star Trek: The Next Generation. The two, (1) warp speed and warp drive, and (2) subspace communications, both seem to me “hands up, I give up” cop-outs, or at least acknowledgements to the invincibility of c, the speed of light (which I do not recall as to whether it requires capitalization).

As long as you believe that your eyes can occasionally "play tricks on you", the entire world of the occult remains explicable.

Shirina wrote:My knowledge of UFOs is second only to my knowledge of military history. I've been studying the phenomenon for a long time and even wrote a couple of papers on them in college - much to the dismay of my professors. I could blather on and on about this subject, but given that it's almost 3am here, I'll simply say this:

After all of my research, I find the answer to be inconclusive. I believe in the possibility that UFOs are actually alien craft. I leave the door open for that. I'm certainly not going to say, "Oh, that's just silly" or laugh it off the way others with myopic worldviews may. There is no reason - NONE - that they couldn't be visiting here; even our science is not up to the task of disproving their existence, for all we can do is use what we currently know. An alien civilization that could be hundreds, or millions, of years ahead of us technologically, undoubtedly knows many, many things that we do not.

I think I would go along with this view. But what is clear to me is the pure odds on there being UFO or Alien's would favour their existence under the law of averages alone. as we have no real idea how big the universe is as yet.

RockOnBrother wrote:

Shirina wrote:
I believe in the possibility that UFOs are actually alien craft…

And yet I’ve seen no ocular proof that aliens exist at all. Meanwhile, I’ve seen a UFO, personally, so there is no way to “explain away” what two other young men and I saw in the sky that December evening.

I’m not saying aliens do not exist; I’m not saying aliens exist. So far, none have made themselves known to me. I certainly cannot justify via what is considered solid science any expectation that aliens have visited, are visiting, or have visited our planet and/or our solar system; the speed of light has so far seemed to be the absolute speed limit, and that approaching infinite increase in mass as anything with mass approaches the speed of light seems insurmountable.

That was and is one of only two “axes to grind” which I have with the writers and producers of Star Trek: The Next Generation. The two, (1) warp speed and warp drive, and (2) subspace communications, both seem to me “hands up, I give up” cop-outs, or at least acknowledgements to the invincibility of c, the speed of light (which I do not recall as to whether it requires capitalization).

I believe you have seen a UFO, just that I have not. but that does not rule out you seeing one or not. solid science that we knopw about does not back this up. but its always interested me this issue I must say.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Stox 16,

And yet solid science’s fluidity in the face of new discoveries dogs our attempts to conclude anything with absolute certainty. Here’s a “makes my head hurt” thought: We have five senses with which we perceive existence. Who’s to say that the addition of just one more sense might make it perfectly clear that aliens visiting earth is perfectly logical?

We do have a sixth sense, based on emotion. This sense come from uotside to inside, then from inside to inside. Seeing as how we feel it, it is a sense.

We see ufo's at rosswell.

The suspension of disbelief is no greater than that required of Believers in the virgin birth.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Who’s to say that the addition of just one more sense might make it perfectly clear that aliens visiting earth is perfectly logical?

 

Charlatan wrote:
We do have a sixth sense, based on emotion. This sense come from uotside to inside, then from inside to inside. Seeing as how we feel it, it is a sense.

We see ufo's at rosswell.

 

I’m speaking of a non-emotive sense. And why limit it to six? Perhaps there are seven or eight.

As for Roswell, I wasn’t there. Never been there, as a matter of fact. I have been there on UCLA’s campus, and I was there the night that two friends and I saw a UFO.

No, mr brother, I am talking about the two ufos that are on support beams in roswell, for all to see.

The suspension of disbelief is no greater than that required of Believers in the virgin birth.

Actually, that isn't really true. UFOs do not require magic or all-powerful divine entities. There is nothing paranormal about UFOs aside from an alien race possessing technology that seems like magic to us. But science is still science no matter how advanced; it not magic or religious mambo-jahambo.

Shirina wrote:

The suspension of disbelief is no greater than that required of Believers in the virgin birth.

Actually, that isn't really true. UFOs do not require magic or all-powerful divine entities. There is nothing paranormal about UFOs aside from an alien race possessing technology that seems like magic to us.

 

True. The UFO I saw required no suspension of disbelief to see, even though what I saw was and remains “unbelievable.” I’m an ex-physics student, emphasis on “ex”, who understands almost intuitively Newtonian physics laws of motion. It is impossible for an object moving at high velocity (maybe double Mach, only an estimate) to execute a ninety degree turn, a turn as sharp as the corner of a “perfectly” drawn rectangle, and to do so without changing speed. In other words, it changed velocity only as it changed direction.

I saw it, and seeing it didn’t require suspension of anything except blasé. Whatever it was, it was a “bad motor scooter!”

It is impossible for an object moving at high velocity (maybe double Mach, only an estimate) to execute a ninety degree turn, a turn as sharp as the corner of a “perfectly” drawn rectangle, and to do so without changing speed. In other words, it changed velocity only as it changed direction.


"Impossible" is a big word there, and could readily be replaced by "difficult" if there were better scientific means of overcoming Mass and Inertia.

Just because we don't yet know how to do something doesn't mean it can't be done. The human race harnessed animal power for a far longer period than we have used mechanical propulsion instead.

oftenwrong wrote:
It is impossible for an object moving at high velocity (maybe double Mach, only an estimate) to execute a ninety degree turn, a turn as sharp as the corner of a “perfectly” drawn rectangle, and to do so without changing speed. In other words, it changed velocity only as it changed direction.

"Impossible" is a big word there, and could readily be replaced by "difficult" if there were better scientific means of overcoming Mass and Inertia.

Just because we don't yet know how to do something doesn't mean it can't be done.  The human race harnessed animal power for a far longer period than we have used mechanical propulsion instead.

 

It is impossible for an object moving at high velocity (maybe double Mach, only an estimate) to execute a ninety degree turn, a turn as sharp as the corner of a “perfectly” drawn rectangle, and to do so without changing speed. In other words, it changed velocity only as it changed direction.

I have seen a UFO back in 1984....Something that was very unexplainable, but I didn't bother to report it ect.

It is a stasticial improbability that is isn't some form of life on other planets....just do the Math, but if you believe in what the Bible preaches then you can only assume there is life on Earth

blueturando wrote:
It is a stasticial improbability that is isn't some form of life on other planets....just do the Math...

 

At seventeen thousand feet above sea level, humans are advised to use packaged oxygen. At forty feet below the ocean’s surface, i.e., forty feet below sea level, humans can go no deeper without packaged oxygen. Humans can exist unaided in a miniscule portion of the earth. Do the math, and realize how fragile our existence is even on earth.

The earth is tilted at a specific angle as it orbits the sun at a particular distance; without the former, there are no seasons, the weather upon which we depend doesn’t work as it should, etc; without the latter, it’s light’s out for life anyway. Do the math.

Jupiter, with a specific mass, orbits the sun at a particular distance. Recently, astronomers and physicists have determined that Jupiter’s vacuum cleaner effect, dependent upon Jupiter being a specific mass and orbiting the sun at a specific distance, clears sufficient debris from the solar system to allow earth to orbit relatively free of striking debris that would prelude life on earth. Do the math.

I could go on. The math suggests that life is statistically improbable at best.

I could go on. The math suggests that life is statistically improbable at best.

Human life as we know it, yes.

But what do we know about life elsewhere? Nothing.

Life will always try to fit the environment available to it. This is why we do not see penguins in the tropics or parrots in the arctic. What we DO see, however, are what are called "extremophiles" ... microscopic organisms that can live and thrive 3 miles below sea level or in the vacuum of space. It would seem that life in general is pretty tenacious. Humans, being an infant species just barely peeking over the edge of its crib for the first time, still view all life in relation to itself. This is a fatal flaw when imagining an alien civilization and the conditions under which it could thrive.

Ah, a good, scholarly discussion brews; lime coffee percolating in the morning, its pleasant aroma invigorates the mind.

RockOnBrother wrote:
I could go on. The math suggests that life is statistically improbable at best.

 

Shirina wrote:
Human life as we know it, yes.

But what do we know about life elsewhere? Nothing.

 

Exactly. We know nothing about life except life as we know it, so any speculation about life as we don’t know it must remain speculation until such time as we become aware of life as we don’t know it. Until then… well, there’s science fact and there’s science fiction, the former by which I’m fascinated as long as I’m not in the lab fourteen hours a day, and the latter which, when done “right”, I thoroughly enjoy.

On a slight foray into left field, I believe that Star Trek: The Next Generation is one of the finest examples of excellent science fiction I’ve ever experienced. I know that I’m spelling his name wrong, as French and I have a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy between us, so “lee-mee ‘lone, yea, ‘bout dat.”

Captain Jean-Luc Piccard sits in the captain’s chair on the bridge of the Starship Enterprise, which is inside of Romulan space, facing off on the view screen against the Romulan general that has lured the Enterprise into a three-on-one confrontation. The Romulan general threatens to blow the Enterprise into oblivion.

Captain Piccard, without looking around, says, “Mr. Worf.”

Lieutenant Commander Worf responds with, “Aye, Captain”, touches his console, and three Klingon Birds of Prey, locked, loaded, and ready to “rumble, young man, rumble”, de-cloak in perfect battle formation with the Enterprise.

Captain Piccard says to the Romulan general, “It’s a good day to die. Your choice, general.”

The Romulan sputters something, disappears from the view screen, and the three Romulan warships high-tail it out of Dodge. Admiral of the Navy William Halsey couldn’t have done it better.

Shirina wrote:
Life will always try to fit the environment available to it.

 

Life as we know it will do so. We don’t know what life as we don’t know it will do.

Shirina wrote:
This is why we do not see penguins in the tropics or parrots in the arctic.

 

Ah, but we do see penguins in the tropics. Galapagos penguins live damned near on the equator, so close in fact that they almost belie the truism that penguins are exclusively Southern Hemisphere birds.

More to the point, neither penguins nor parrots live anywhere that lacks the nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere from which all animal life either directly or indirectly extracts oxygen (yes, Martha, fish can drown in water). Insofar as we know, that’s available only in that narrow band, which, even including the deepest diving animal life, still is no more than ten miles wide.

Shirina wrote:
What we DO see, however, are what are called "extremophiles" ... microscopic organisms that can live and thrive 3 miles below sea level or in the vacuum of space.

 

Are these organisms sentient animal life? Except as n oddity, how does their existence impact the possibility of highly intelligent (thus sentient) beings capable of traveling from star system to star system in craft seen by humans existing in reality?

Shirina wrote:
It would seem that life in general is pretty tenacious.

 

I don’t consider these micro-organisms “general” at all. They are, in my opinion, extreme anomalies, evidencing nothing more than the truth of the old saying, “never say never.”

Life in general, to me, is life capable of doing more than merely existing. Even plants do something other than just float around as adjuncts to meaningful life.

Shirina wrote:
Humans, being an infant species just barely peeking over the edge of its crib for the first time, still view all life in relation to itself.

 

This “infant species” has contemplated more, and upon more, than all other species that exist and have ever existed. That’s what we’re doing now, something that orcas, with their prodigious minds, have never done. Pretty good for peeking over our crib’s edge.

Shirina wrote:
This is a fatal flaw when imagining an alien civilization and the conditions under which it could thrive.

 

Nothing fatal about it, sans any evidence that life as we don’t know it is capable of existing.

"Mice are not, as is commonly assumed on Earth, small white squeaking animals who spend a lot of time being experimented on.
In fact, they are the protrusions into our dimension of hyper-intellegent pan-dimensional beings. These beings are in fact responsible for the creation of the Earth.

Two mice (Frankie and Benjy) escaped from Earth before the premature termination of its programme. They had belonged to an Earthling known as Trillian. They were rather keen to remove Arthur Dent's brain to reveal the ultimate question, which they had devoted a lot and time and money to finding.

The whole business with the cheese and the squeaking is just a front."

Douglas Adams H²G²

Two mice (Frankie and Benjy)

 

Pinky and the Brain?

Shirina wrote:

The suspension of disbelief is no greater than that required of Believers in the virgin birth.

Actually, that isn't really true. UFOs do not require magic or all-powerful divine entities. There is nothing paranormal about UFOs aside from an alien race possessing technology that seems like magic to us. But science is still science no matter how advanced; it not magic or religious mambo-jahambo.

But if these Alien's are a race of great technology what on earth could they again from us? i would say very little indeed in that case

Stox 16 wrote:
But if these Alien's are a race of great technology what on earth could they again from us? i would say very little indeed in that case

 

Suspension of disbelief can include our automatic belief that another life form would of necessity be motivated as we are motivated.

But if these Alien's are a race of great technology what on earth could they again from us? i would say very little indeed in that case

Suspension of disbelief can include our automatic belief that another life form would of necessity be motivated as we are motivated.

Even assuming an alien species does have the same or similar motivations as we do, think of it this way:

When it was thought that fossilized microbes had been found in a billion year-old rock from Mars, it sent shock waves through the scientific community that prompted even the president to hold a press conference on the subject (then Clinton). Science has been after the pursuit of life elsewhere ever since and it has fundamentally changed our mission in space.

Imagine our reaction if, instead, one of our planetary probes had found a neolithic village comprised of a thriving alien species of obvious albeit limited intelligence? If a billion year-old fossil in a rock can cause such a stir, well ...

Intelligent life may be out there, but it could be rare. I doubt the universe looks like Star Wars where it seems like there are aliens everywhere on practically every planet. If intelligent life is rare, then finding us would be a major discovery - even to a civilization much more advanced than we are. If an alien race is simply looking for a hand-out ... if they simply want more technology, then we wouldn't interest them. But there is one thing we have that they don't: Humanity. If they simply want to know and learn, we could be of great interest to them. After all, anthropologists run all over the world giving up a traditional Western life to spend time learning about remote tribes in far flung places. Our tech level differential compared to a Papua New Guinean tribe could be at least as great as ours compared to an alien species ... but they still might come here because they simply want to know. Curiosity is a powerful motivator, and I feel that all successful species - even animals - display curiosity. It is what makes us dynamic, a species that gets off its duff and walk a mile just to see what might be around the next bend in the road. Without that curiosity - the spirit of the explorer - no alien race would even bother to leave its own planet much less come here.

I know I am coming into this one late and even although I have tried to read as much as I can before posting, please excuse me if I am going over anything that was discussed before.

As I see it, being a science fact and science fiction nut, ( I try very hard not to get them mixed up ), I think that - if we still accept the rules that Einstein proposed in his Theory of Relativity in space-time measurement and his E=MC2 hypothesis - then all life out there would have to follow his rule that nothing can travel faster than light.

If this is the case then it would not matter how close in light-speed distances that these other civilisations were from us they could not possible get to us from any other of our nearest stars in order to fly about and try to - badly - hide from us at the same time.

As Professor Brian Cox recently said: "If they were as advanced as they would need to be to visit us they would be bound to be capable of either ensuring that they were never seen - if they wanted to keep it that way - or they would have made deliberate contact with us already.

Anybody ?

It helps if you can believe whatever helps you to believe.

Papaumau wrote:
As Professor Brian Cox recently said: "If they were as advanced as they would need to be to visit us they would be bound to be capable of either ensuring that they were never seen - if they wanted to keep it that way - or they would have made deliberate contact with us already.

Anybody ?

 

Papaumau,

Professor Cox’s series, “Wonders of the Solar System” aired last night. I believe it was four episodes, which I DVR’d, one of which is entitled “Aliens.” I tried to find it on YouTube (no luck) to post here. Perhaps it’s available in a “post-able” format over there.

When one’s knowledge of “all that is” is as limited as human knowledge, the existence of anything can never be ruled out.

Millions of people have not actually see god, yet they believe in god, so why not aliens and UFO's. God could be an alien, his invisability cloak might have slipped when he visited a couple of thousand years ago and someone saw him. There are millions of suns in this vast universe that have millions of planets orbiting them, it is highly likely that some of those planets have life on them, probably more advanced than us. So i for one won't discount it, but am i bovvered, nope i am not, i have seen ET twice, and War of the Worlds three times, i reckon all the aliens will be like ET, friendly little creatures.

Mr Cameron wants you to believe that the NHS is safe in his hands.

oftenwrong wrote:Mr Cameron wants you to believe that the NHS is safe in his hands.

About as safe as an armless fielder in a cricket match.

jackthelad wrote:
There are millions of suns in this vast universe that have millions of planets orbiting them, it is highly likely that some of those planets have life on them

 

What about the fact that, without the delicate balance of everything on Earth, life would be impossible here? Can that balance be duplicated?

Yes.......

".... without the delicate balance of everything on Earth, life would be impossible here?"[/i]

Delicate indeed. The human body is comfortable between 10 degrees centigrade and 30. It survives in the atmosphere but not underwater, although in the absence of water will quickly die.

On our own Earth itself, there are many unsuitable locations for comfortable human existence, and all the other locations within our own solar system are TOTALLY unsuitable.

Not a good start.