Does any religion matter at all today?

by Stox 16 Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:35 am

First topic message reminder :

I will be interested to read peoples thoughts on this question. Does any Religion matter at all today?

I cannot see that any religious church's or anything religious even matters today at all. The only true religion I have ever come across is, Money, Political Power, Land, and greed. all the things we are told they are against, this goes for all religions too in my view.

in fact all the faiths I have come across use all of the tools of money, political power, Land and greed to re-force there religious views on there followers. i have never come across any religion that does not use at least one of this tools to enforce there religious views on the people they are said to be looking after.

I have read over the years all the religious books i can find, and have yet too be moved by any of them. some have very good stories that have something in them for every reader. but their it ends for me. maybe someone can explain why any of this is so important today? as i cannot find anything within the books that states this is very important today or in the past. I myself have come to believe that religion has more to do with the thought of death or dying and the human need to believe that life goes on after death.

However, when we was all born we did not feel pain or come into being with some religious thought in our heads or a book in our hands did we? in fact we had know idea about religion at all? so only find out what religion we are when someone tells us that this is our religion? yet you would think we would all know this already if there was a god? So we only find out what our religion is after birth? or do you believe you know what you religion was before birth? (i did not) if someone told me i was a follower of Islam, I would of said OK at five years old. in fact they could of given me any religion and i would of said fine.

So religion seems to me, religion only matters a get deal more the older you get? so I am told, well if so its failing on me badly. so anyway, it matter more as you get closer to death then? so is this more to do with our human need for life to go on somehow? as we find it hard to believe that life comes to an end and we go into darkness of no mans land? just like before we was born?

I was told at about 6 years old by my mother that this was my faith. but in total truth my mother could of said any faith was my religion and i would of gone along with what she said. To me that was it, Its that simple then. i did not then think about anything religious till i was in the Army in standing in a street in the middle of green line in a war zone in the Lebanon. with both Christains killing, Muslims Killing, Catholic Maronite's Killing, Druze faith Killing, Jewish killing. at first wondering why they was all doing this? not for religion or faith but power and using religion to justify there actions. I remember thinking. just suppose these people had been given a different religion by there mothers. they would instead of killing as a Maronite gunman they would of been killing Maronite's as a Druze gunman?

So your religion is picked for you in my view and some even change it too. yet you would think if you know your god at your death. you should know who you god is before birth? but we do not. So does any of this really matter any more?

well i well be interrested to read your thought on this. its not about any one religion but all of them.

by ROB Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:17 am

Matthew Chapters 1-4 offer but a few teachings of Y’shua bar Yosef, Jesus son of Joseph; for brevity’s sake, all that I can discern are enumerated in this post, and no other text from the first four chapters of Matthew are posted. If I’ve missed any teachings of Y’shua bar Yosef, Jesus son of Joseph, please alert me to my error.

But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.”

Chapter 4:
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’”
Jesus said to him, “On the other hand, it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
Then Jesus said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’’
And he said to them, “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.”

Of the five (5) teachings of Jesus recorded in Matthew Chapters 1-4:

Five (5), 100.00%, do not involve sex.
Zero (0), 0.00%, involve sex.

by ROB Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:26 pm

Continuing: Teachings of Y’shua bar Yosef, Jesus son of Joseph, Matthew Chapter 7 (Sermon on the Mount):

“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged, and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite: first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”
“Ask, and it shall be given unto you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and the door shall be opened unto you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him?”
“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.”
“Enter through the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.’”
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house, and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”

When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching, for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.

Summary of the teachings of Y’shua bar Yosef, Jesus son of Joseph, Sermon on the Mount, Matthew Chapters 5-7:

Of the twenty-one (21) teachings of Jesus recorded in Matthew Chapter 5:

Nineteen (19), 90.48%, do not involve sex.
Two (2), 9.52%, involve sex.

Of the eleven (11) teachings of Jesus recorded in Matthew Chapter 6:

Eleven (11), 100.00%, do not involve sex.
Zero (0), 0.00%, involve sex.

Of the eight (8 teachings of Jesus recorded in Matthew Chapter 7:

Eight (8, 100.00%, do not involve sex.
Zero (0), 0.00%, involve sex.

Of the forty (40) teachings of Jesus recorded in Matthew Chapters 5-7, the Sermon on the Mount in its entirety:

Thirty-eight (38), 95.00%, do not involve sex.
Two (2), 5.00%, involve sex.

Summary of the teachings of Y’shua bar Yosef, Jesus son of Joseph, Matthew Chapters 1-7:

Of the five (5) teachings of Jesus recorded in Matthew Chapters 1-3:

Five (5), 100.00%, do not involve sex.
Zero (0), 0.00%, involve sex.

Of the forty (40) teachings of Jesus recorded in Matthew Chapters 5-7, the Sermon on the Mount in its entirety:

Thirty-eight (38), 95.00%, do not involve sex.
Two (2), 5.00%, involve sex.

Of the forty-five (45) teachings of Jesus recorded in Matthew Chapters 1-7:

Forty-three (38), 95.56%, do not involve sex.
Two (2), 4.44%, involve sex.

by snowyflake Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:14 pm

I am wondering then, why it is a sin to have sex outside of marriage or with anyone of the same sex? Surely, this comes straight out of the bible and the qu'ran and the torah? Arguing that religion is not about sex is like saying the Vatican is not about popes. If someone can clear this up please I would be most grateful. And if the 3 major delusions are not about sex then why all the hoopla about you can't love or make love between consenting adults?

by oftenwrong Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:04 pm

This may be an over-simplification, but if the word "love" is replaced by the word "lust" some of the ambiguity falls away.

by oftenwrong Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:21 pm

I was just going to say that arguments about Religion have no ending.

by snowyflake Sat May 19, 2012 9:16 am

Getting back to the original question: Does any religion matter at all today?

Religion is a meme that was necessary to human survival through group cohesion and for making freeloaders behave and pull their weight through guilt. It works, that's why it survives. It feeds into a human being's need to feel important to Someone or Anyone and that their life means something. It scares the shite out of people to think that this is all there is. If religion were true or factual then there would only be one religion and one god. But since there are thousands of gods past and present, thousands of religions past and present....it is a pretty good assumption that they are all bullshit and products of our human brain and its capacity for wide and varied imaginations and its ability to create superheroes that are comforting to us.

Hope you are alright. I wish it would stop raining so I can get out in my garden. My rhododendrons are absolutely blooming beautiful (this is not a euphemism) Smile

by polyglide Sat May 19, 2012 12:15 pm

If your quesion had been is there any need for churches today I would most certainly have agreed with you.

Most of the churches have compromised to such an extent that they no longer truly represent faith.

However, there is as much need today for faith as there has ever been and in fact more so.

Even the existing churches play a major role in stabalising society, I know, I know, religion has caused numerous problems, however, there is no doubt it has also helped to rationalise many peoples actions.

A totally Godless world would not be a very pleasant place.

In many cases it is obvious that the Gods worshiped are based on less than sound grounds and yet without them the society involved would suffer rather than benifit.

I believe in God the father of Jesus without any reservations whatsoever
but I am not a member of any church for the reasons stated above.

by oftenwrong Sat May 19, 2012 1:08 pm

http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/furrow

If you plough your own furrow, you do something that is different from what other people do.
▪ She was not afraid to plough her own furrow. [=to act independently; to do something no one else has done] If you plough the same furrow, you do the same thing someone else does. ▪ He was not content to plough the same furrow as his father. If you plough a lone/lonely furrow, you do something alone or do something that no one else will do. ▪ She has had to plough a lone/lonely furrow in her pursuit of reform

by snowyflake Sat May 19, 2012 3:31 pm

A totally Godless world would not be a very pleasant place.

Really? Replacing delusion, wishful thinking and falsehoods with what? Reason, facts, common sense? Peace? A totally godless world might cut down most of the wars, torture, murder, rape, paedophilia, robbery, mutilation and other sundry depravities done in the name of God. That's a world I could live in.

by polyglide Mon May 21, 2012 2:22 pm

I doubt your thoughts on what would happen in a Godless world.

I feel there would be no control whatsoever over the less privilliged as there is now, the most religious people who acctually follow faith in the manner it should be followed are the poorest in terms of wealth and earthly benifits and without faith and the promise of better things to come would in all probability turn to crime and all the things you suggest would improve, they would heve nothing to loose and nothing to look forwrd to.

by snowyflake Mon May 21, 2012 6:31 pm

I feel there would be no control whatsoever over the less privilliged as there is now, the most religious people who acctually follow faith in the manner it should be followed are the poorest in terms of wealth and earthly benifits and without faith and the promise of better things to come would in all probability turn to crime and all the things you suggest would improve, they would heve nothing to loose and nothing to look forwrd to.

So without religion, the poor would run amok and commit crime? Wow!

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

by oftenwrong Mon May 21, 2012 7:27 pm

There has never ever been a shortage of people who want to tell everyone else what to do.

by polyglide Tue May 22, 2012 2:23 pm

There has always been a lot of people unable to tell reality from frivolous nonsense and indulge in all manner of unacceptable activities but that does not change the truth. The Devil is having a field day and the aiders have no clue how they are being used.

by oftenwrong Tue May 22, 2012 5:43 pm

When ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.

by Shirina Tue May 22, 2012 7:56 pm

Yes, I'm demonic. That's why I keep my hair long - to cover my horns and hide my pointed ears.

Did you know that, in the military, a "field day" means essentially spending the whole day cleaning the barracks? So if the devil is having a field day, he's too busy scrubbing the latrines to do any harm.

by polyglide Fri May 25, 2012 11:51 am

There are many ways in which words are used and anyone with common sense relates them to the matter in quesion.

As for horns, I think you are on the horns of a delema and realy are lost in the fields of dispair.

by blueturando Fri May 25, 2012 12:53 pm

I feel there would be no control whatsoever over the less privilliged as there is now, the most religious people who acctually follow faith in the manner it should be followed are the poorest in terms of wealth and earthly benifits and without faith and the promise of better things to come would in all probability turn to crime and all the things you suggest would improve, they would heve nothing to loose and nothing to look forwrd to

Polyglide........Maybe the poorest people in the world in terms of wealth and earthly benefits are just that, because they are also the most religious? It's much easier to try and get out of problem in life if you just think a prayer to a mythical being will solve your issues, rather than doing something about it yourself...and as God is not real and their prayers dont get answered, they will remain the poorest.
The promise of better things to come (Heaven) is a nice sweetener for the leaders of organised religions. They invariably remain quite weathly (See Catholic Church) while millions of their followers will remain poor and uneducated...deluded and brain washed into thinking there are better things to come

by astra Fri May 25, 2012 1:01 pm

Show me a RICH Catholic country, polyglide.

If Blue, Ivan and I go on a Viking forage and pillage through ANY catholic country, what we pick up as loot will FAR FAR outweigh the wealth declared in that country's banks and financial sectors. indeed I am sure the international financial institutions would be surprised also.

Be sure that we would make ourselves VERY hard to find.

by Shirina Fri May 25, 2012 5:09 pm

America, of course, is a bit of an exception in that it is disproportionately religious compared to its wealth. We should be a Third World nation with our religiosity. However, what's interesting is that the more religious the president, the worse our economy is. That doesn't mean that a president can't believe in God ... it's more a measure of whether the president wears religion on his sleeve. For instance, Jimmy Carter was a super-religious president and the economy tanked. George W. Bush was also quick to evoke God and the economy again tanked. Reagan, Clinton, and Obama were not overly religious and the economy recovered.

by polyglide Sat May 26, 2012 11:33 am

I can see the sense in what you say blueterando, as with everything there are many ways in which you can consider a matter.

But I feel had there been any falsehood that could be detected by the poor over the many years they would by now have come to realise them and left religion alone.

No matter what you may feel about religion and God there are too many people of intelligence and an enquiring mind that are convinced that God is a reality that it may give you grounds for furthert consideration.

regards.

by oftenwrong Sat May 26, 2012 5:56 pm

When you've got nuthin', you've got nuthin' to lose.

by Shirina Sat May 26, 2012 6:16 pm

No matter what you may feel about religion and God there are too many people of intelligence and an enquiring mind that are convinced that God is a reality that it may give you grounds for furthert consideration.

Uh oh, fallacy alert!

Description of Appeal to Popularity

The Appeal to Popularity has the following form:

Most people approve of X (have favorable emotions towards X).
Therefore X is true.

The basic idea is that a claim is accepted as being true simply because most people are favorably inclined towards the claim. More formally, the fact that most people have favorable emotions associated with the claim is substituted in place of actual evidence for the claim. A person falls prey to this fallacy if he accepts a claim as being true simply because most other people approve of the claim.

It is clearly fallacious to accept the approval of the majority as evidence for a claim. For example, suppose that a skilled speaker managed to get most people to absolutely love the claim that 1+1=3. It would still not be rational to accept this claim simply because most people approved of it. After all, mere approval is no substitute for a mathematical proof. At one time people approved of claims such as "the world is flat", "humans cannot survive at speeds greater than 25 miles per hour", "the sun revolves around the earth" but all these claims turned out to be false.

LINK

by polyglide Mon May 28, 2012 4:36 pm

Utter nonsense once again, when thousands of people consider the actual facts of any matter they make a decision based on those facts.

Some people may be mislead for a period of time but eventually the truth will out.

As with many theories they are eventually found to be just that, specualtion based on, usually one man's ideas [woman's].

There are far more theories that have been proven wrong than those that have been proved correct and the jury is still out on many that people think are correct.

It matters not how many are for or against any particular subject the truth will be the truth and it matters not how many believe it.

The main problem being if the majority do not believe and in doing so there are adverse consequences then it is in the best interests of those who do believe to do all they can to covert those that do not.

by Shirina Mon May 28, 2012 5:55 pm

Utter nonsense once again, when thousands of people consider the actual facts of any matter they make a decision based on those facts.

LOL! So you're telling me a fallacy is nonsense? Heehee.

So you think that thousands of people consider the facts and then make a decision based on those facts? Well, you're wrong.

The retail giant JC Penny devised a marketing campaign where all price tags had the actual price marked on them. They eliminated all the standard marketing ploys such as pricing things one cent below the next dollar (i.e. $9.99), shrouding (failing to disclose subsidiary costs), and even included the state sales tax. That way consumers would know exactly how much they would be paying. If the price tag said a product costs $10.17, that's exactly how much you would be charged at the cash register.

You'd think that would be a big hit, wouldn't you? Finally, some honesty!

But oooh no. The first year of this new marketing campaign, JC Penny lost $126 million in profit. Do you know why? Because most of the consumers went to the other stores because they thought the "lower" prices offered a better deal. So while JC Penny might offer a hammer for $10.17, Best Buy would offer the same hammer for $9.99 ... and people actually thought they were getting a better deal at Best Buy. Did any of these consumers stop to consider all of the facts before making a decision on which hammer to buy? Apparently not!

So it just goes to show you that people do not always - and probably rarely - make good decisions based on facts. Instead, many people make decisions based on wishful thinking and self-delusion. If the masses can't be trusted to make factual decisions about hammers at the store, I wouldn't be too quick to put your trust in them when making decisions about spirituality. That's why atheists are a minority.

There are far more theories that have been proven wrong than those that have been proved correct and the jury is still out on many that people think are correct.

Sure, that's true. But religion has NEVER been proven correct. Ever. And religion has had 10,000 years of recorded history to prove the existence of just one god, just one miracle, just one burning bush or virgin birth, yet so far ... nothing.

It matters not how many are for or against any particular subject the truth will be the truth and it matters not how many believe it.

On this point, we can agree.

The main problem being if the majority do not believe and in doing so there are adverse consequences then it is in the best interests of those who do believe to do all they can to covert those that do not.

Well, that's not necessarily true. Sometimes - in fact, quite often - the majority belief system causes adverse consequences, as well. Even if all 7 billion people converted to Christianity tomorrow, there would still be majority and minority beliefs within the faith. People have fought and died over such trivialities as which hymns to sing or the appropriate way to recite prayers. The Muslims have been feuding for centuries over who the heir to Muhammad is ... or even if he has one. Catholics and Protestants have been slaughtering each other for centuries. In fact, Baptist churches here in my state of North Carolina can't even reach a consensus regarding the treatment of gays.

Who converts whom? Which side is the correct side? Who knows? One cannot automatically assume one side is right simply because YOU agree with that side. You could be the one who is wrong.

Yeah, I know. Everything I say is nonsense and I don't understand. I get the drill.

by trevorw2539 Mon May 28, 2012 11:03 pm

Shirina. just read your post. JCPenny episode interesting. Just goes to show human nature. We see what we want to see, and often take things on face value. There are stores here, and probably in the US which offer 'pay weekly, only £8 per week' for .... weeks. The total amount given is correct, but many do not count the cost of the interest. They only see '£8 per week'. If you take up the option of insurance and other subsidary costs you pay 2-3 times the items worth.

Agree with most of what you say but as a matter of interest there is a plant which can burst into flame briefly and yet not be destroyed. It is found in the Middle East and Asia. I'm not suggesting with authority that this was 'Moses burning bush', just that it exists. Dictamnus.

by ROB Tue May 29, 2012 8:49 am

Shirina wrote:
The retail giant JC Penny… eliminated all the standard marketing ploys such as pricing things one cent below the next dollar (i.e. $9.99), shrouding (failing to disclose subsidiary costs), and even included the state sales tax… If the price tag said a product costs $10.17, that's exactly how much you would be charged at the cash register.

The first year of this new marketing campaign, JC Penny lost $126 million in profit… most of the consumers went to the other stores because they thought the "lower" prices offered a better deal. So while JC Penny might offer a hammer for $10.17, Best Buy would offer the same hammer for $9.99 ... and people actually thought they were getting a better deal at Best Buy. Did any of these consumers stop to consider all of the facts before making a decision on which hammer to buy? Apparently not!

… people do not always… make good decisions based on facts… If the masses can't be trusted to make factual decisions about hammers at the store, I wouldn't be too quick to put your trust in them when making decisions about spirituality.

I seem to remember Jacques Penne’s (Zshock Pin-NAY’s) pricing strategy fiasco.

In both cases, there is reality, truth, and there are perceptions and decisions, the “realities” within which people live their lives. The former is not change by the latter. Those that know truth do not make truth true because they have perceived truth and decided truth is true.

If a tree falls in the forest and there are no living beings within hearing range to hear it fall, does it make a sound? Supposedly that’s a quandary, but not to this amateur animal behaviourist (I like the Ozzie/Canadian spelling, so sue me).

True story: The storage place for “Ol’ Roy”, my crazy dog’s dry dog food, was deep within the bowel of my house, on purpose, as garage storage of dog food and chicken/duck feed can attract rodents. The moment the scoop rattled the Ol’ Roy (dry dog food, remember), my crazy pooch sprinted to the back door in nothing flat, no mater where he might be in the yard. He stayed right there, turning counter-clockwise circles repeatedly and excitedly until the scoopful of dog food reached the back door, at which point the alternating laying at my feet/attempting to lick the corners of my mouth ‘begging’ behaviour would start. I emphasize “attempting.”

Meanwhile, human family members along the inside-the-house pathway from Ol’ Roy to back door heard nothing while the dry dog food was being scooped.

A dog’s sense of hearing exponentially exceeds a human’s sense of hearing. In fact, according to a recent NGC program (aired this past Saturday, I believe) entitled something like “North America’s Big Five”, wolves are sound hunters even more so than scent hunters, detecting the sounds of potential dinner from miles away.

So does Ol’ Roy make a sound when it is scooped up, even if the person doing the scooping is deaf and the other humans in the household hear nothing? Ask my dog!

True stories often reveal truth. Human perceptions are not, never have been, and never will be equivalent with truth. Since North Carolina receives the same feds as my neck of the wood, you might check out this program when it airs again:

Brain Games: “Watch This!” NGC Thursday 5/31 5:00 PM EDT/CDT

The inherent limitation with which many atheists saddle themselves is the decision to believe as truth only that which can be perceived.

But remember, as you’ve pointed out, perception and decision do not cause that which is perceived and decide upon to be truth. JC Penney had the best price despite perception and decision, and Bust Buy didn’t have the best buy despite its name.

Shirina wrote:
… atheists are a minority.

So are “flat-worlders.” So are those who, like my great uncle, never believed that mankind walked on the moon.

by sickchip Tue May 29, 2012 12:20 pm

Does any religion matter today?

Money. Consumerism. Profit. Capitalism.

They seem to be the religions that really matter today.

by polyglide Tue May 29, 2012 2:34 pm

The problem with the pricing theory is that they did not understand the facts and there is a big difference between understanding all that is involved and making a dicision and making a decision and not understanding the facts.

by astra Tue May 29, 2012 2:47 pm

Bollocks!

The sheeple go out to shopple and when confronted by something new, are like cockroaches on a barn floor confronted by a discarded fag packet.

Totally confused and look for what is familiar.

by ROB Tue May 29, 2012 2:50 pm

polyglide wrote:
The problem with the pricing theory…

It’s not a pricing theory. It’s a marketing strategy, conceived, designed, and implemented for a decidedly non-scientific purpose.

Scientific theories posit, and provide a means of testing, the truthfulness of scientific hypotheses. Marketing strategies seek profits through causing consumers to spend their money as the marketing strategists desire.

polyglide wrote:
… they did not understand the facts…

That’s the point of that particular portion of Shirina’s post. People tend to decide prior to ascertaining facts.

by Shirina Tue May 29, 2012 4:55 pm

Agree with most of what you say but as a matter of interest there is a plant which can burst into flame briefly and yet not be destroyed. It is found in the Middle East and Asia. I'm not suggesting with authority that this was 'Moses burning bush', just that it exists.

Yep I remember hearing about that plant. From what I remember, the leaves give off a flammable gas that can, under the right conditions, burst into flame. The fire burns off the gas but leaves the plant unharmed.

However, these plants are not known for their language skills and are not in the habit of speaking to people. Very Happy

by Shirina Tue May 29, 2012 5:14 pm

Brain Games: “Watch This!” NGC Thursday 5/31 5:00 PM EDT/CDT

I don't remember seeing that show on NGC ... maybe Time Warner has a different line-up?

The inherent limitation with which many atheists saddle themselves is the decision to believe as truth only that which can be perceived.

Well, I can't speak for all atheists - especially since I'm more of an agnostic than an atheist - my issue with "believing" has more to do with religious dogma and mythology than the possibility of a god. By the time I was 16, I had lived on 4 different continents in the midst of cultures very different from each other. I've lived in nations practicing Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, and Christian fundamentalism/evangelism. That doesn't even count all the places I've visited. One thing I have noticed ... everyone believes their nation is the greatest on earth and everyone believes their religion is the only true religion.

Just like consumerism, religion is always pushing an angle to convince me to "buy" their product. With all of them doing their best to show me their product is the best one on the market, and with no clear evidence that any of them are correct, sometimes the best course of action is to go home and make one yourself. And so I have.

So are “flat-worlders.” So are those who, like my great uncle, never believed that mankind walked on the moon.

Ah, but there is a distinct difference. Flat-Earthers and Moon Hoax Conspiracy Theorists believe what they do in contravention of the facts. Atheists disbelieve precisely because there ARE no facts. I'd also point out that atheism and agnosticism is growing, not shrinking - and today, they represent a larger minority than blacks, Latinos, or any other minority demographic.

by ROB Tue May 29, 2012 6:55 pm

Shirina wrote:

Brain Games: “Watch This!” NGC Thursday 5/31 5:00 PM EDT/CDT
I don't remember seeing that show on NGC ... maybe Time Warner has a different line-up?

That’s possible, but Time Warner doesn’t schedule NGC’s programs. Look for it in two days (31 May 2012). I saw it this past Thursday, Friday, or Saturday.

Remember to zero in on the “Watch This!” episode airing at 5:00 PM (if Time Warner is sticking to NGC’s scheduling). On my schedule, there are two episodes preceding “Watch This!”, one airing at 3:00 PM, one airing at 4:00 PM, all times CDT. I’ll be DVRing all three episodes.

by oftenwrong Tue May 29, 2012 7:53 pm

nBrother[color=black]
I would point out that the bandwagon has transported mankind down many an erroneous path.

On board the Pinta, the Niña, and the Santa Maria, those who posited that the three ships were eventually going to sail off of the edge of the world comprised how great a demographic?
[/quote]

Cristobal Colon not only confounded the "flat-earthers", he had managed to fool himself into thinking that sailing West must lead him to China. Five hundred years later he could have been proved correct by flying instead of sailing, but that's the whole point of History. You have to keep things in the right order.

by sickchip Tue May 29, 2012 7:59 pm

Rock,

Surely all religion is dogma.......since it's rules are written by mere mortals?

by tlttf Wed May 30, 2012 8:30 am

What's the village people and the YMCA got to do with religion?

by polyglide Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:06 pm

There are lists and lists of theories that have proved groundless but there are also many benificial results from those that have proved true.

If of course you feel the present state of the world is a desireable place to live.

Just a little consideration.

Would you prefer a life where there was no machinery, no wars, no lack of food and everyone had good health and all enjoyed the fruits of the earth
along with all therein or the present state?.

by Shirina Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:45 pm

Would you prefer a life where there was no machinery

I would not prefer a life with no machinery.

I happen to enjoy things like computers, cars, and HDTV. Interestingly, the view of Heaven always seems to involve the simple, agrarian life of a farmer, devoid of any real technology (though I wouldn't mind at all if cell phones disappeared).

That's really not the kind of life I would want, some romanticized version of Stone Age life. Of course I would love to see everyone fed, all diseases cured, and warfare eliminated. But I don't think going back 6,000 years is the way to do it. Of course, those who first envisioned a Heaven had no conception of computers, cars, and HDTV ... all they knew was farming. Thus it would stand to reason that this image of paradise would be passed on from generation to generation.

Even the Jehovah's Witnesses have quaint watercolor pictures of paradise inside of their pamphlets - always showing families gathering fruit and tending fields of bountiful crops. At least they made the concession of allowing these families modern clothing and not robes and sandals. Of course, even when working the fields, they were dressed as if attending a church service.

This is one of the problems of paradise, though, isn't it. While all of us can agree that an ending to war, poverty, and disease would be hallmarks of any paradise, the details of what paradise would entail would be different for everyone. There is no "one size fits all" paradise. It would have to be unique to each individual.

If of course you feel the present state of the world is a desireable place to live.

Well, again, the answer to this question would depend on the perspective of the answerer, wouldn't it? As someone who knows a wee bit about history, I would say that I would rather be living here and now than in any other time in history. There's a lot of things I don't like, a lot of things that could stand some major improvements. Yet, with an understanding of what life was like for many people even 100 years ago, I would never want to spend my days in a more primitive environment. Others, of course, would disagree ... and if they wish to live a life of arduous labor in a world devoid of antibiotics or where myopia would turn you into a beggar, I say go for it. But it wouldn't be for me.

Fortunately, the days when heretics were brutally tortured and executed to the cheers of crowds are long gone. So, too, are the days when a woman was only permitted to sit in the nosebleed seats at the gladiatorial games. It's hard to appreciate where we are when we have no idea where we've been.

by trevorw2539 Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:49 pm

Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs are French, the mechanics are German, the lovers Italian and the whole thing is organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, the police German, and it is all organised by the Italians.

by polyglide Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:58 am

We have all sorts of remedies for all sorts of problems, the trouble is it is we who have caused the problems in the first place by abuse etc; of all the things we were given to enjoy

by polyglide Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:00 pm

The quesion was, do you think the present world is a desireable place to live?

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