'Welfare to work' - a taboo subject?

First topic message reminder :

I must say that i have been surpised at the lack of comments and discussion on the what looks like a collapse of the 'Welfare to work' scheme..It feels like this subject is taboo... :affraid:

We have comapnies withdrawing their involvement in the welfare to work scheme following Tesco's job centre advert for 4 weeks work 'experience' where the reward is job seelers allowance plus expenses....

Now whilst I can see some benefits to the scheme perhaps it should have been thought through a little more......

would you be willing to work for £2.30 per hour with no guarantee of a job at the end of it........

Thoughts, opinions, rants?

blueturando says.
The avatar is just a bit of fun, but it does let other posters know I'm a Tory just to save time and confusion...now i hope that clears things up for you.

I would have thought the word blue in your name would have been information enough for people to realise you were a tory. There should be no need for a photo of a Grocers, witch of a daughter.

Lol Jack....point taken

Mel , astra, Red,
the british electorate are awake and vigilant , I use this analogy in the sense that before the populus were bumping along doing whatever they do , being political animals or not as the case me be , BUT now the UK is switched on to Cameron and the coalition because the economic downturn has focused there attention because they can no longer afford to keep up there daily rituals of having a drink , filling up the car , going to the football match , childcare , etc , the cuts have forced them to have a point of view regarding how this government is doing things that are affecting everyday plans, Once people are hit hard in the pocket , even the most shallow of people , have an opinion and they also have a vote.

blueturando,

I am self employed like yourself and in no way was suggesting you had an offshore account in Jersey ha ha , just the fact I spotted the location and the offshore thing sprang to mind, I enjoy a debate and respect the other persons view , I have had plenty of good debate in the USA section of the forum.

Hello Scarecrow,

Cameron will be saying soon "my friend dear Gideon told you lot a year or more ago that "things will get tough". " We always keep to our word". "We must reduce the deficit left by the last Labour government. They would be implementing tough measure had they returned to power in any case. We are all in it together and we must reduce taxes to revive growth".

"The NHS is safe in our hands and although private companies will be coming in and making profits, it will all be for the good of the patients".

I expect the electorate to swallow the excuses and the bitter pill as in my opinion they are still and will continue to be brainwashed as the media/press will not be attacking the government as they did when Brown was in office. The reason is because they are either running scared, or more aplicable because most are Tory owned and run.

I really hope you are right and I am wrong, however this lot have so far got away with murder, with little or no resistance from where I am standing.
.

Mel,

Ever wonder why Blair advocated 24 hour drinking ha ha , yeah to keep the proletariat happy and subdued , subservient , I understand your misgivings because unlike the French or Spanish the brits have been very subdued as a species , but this economic downturn is going to get much worse , the fact Cameron is being seen to rain in bonuses and HMRC is closing tax loopholes , says to me that they want to be able to turn to the electorate and say look , we are doing the correct thing , but alarm bells are ringing because of these moves by the coalition, they know how bad it is going to get and want to have been seen to have done something , there is a groundswell of opinion on the publics behalf , sure lot's still don't care at present , but we are not in the worst of it yet, argghhhh I sound like a right doom monger ha ha , but I am a realist , people think and vote with there pockets and a large section of the electorate are finding less spare change in there pockets.

Mark my words Spain will not sit on there backsides when Germany comes calling nor Portugal .

"Charity begins at home" is a familiar phrase because it is true. Many people cast their vote according to how their own family is functioning at the time. Affordable Bills, a full tummy and a shiny car in the drive persuade Electors to maintain the Status Quo. Don't rock the boat. Steady as she goes.

Which is why the Coalition government will only serve one term.

They can't deliver on the Promise.

" Affordable Bills, a full tummy and a shiny car in the drive ..."

Two out of three ain't bad....

Cathy Newman demolishing the Tory liar Chris Grayling (second video on the page):-

http://www.channel4.com/news/no-benefits-if-you-dont-for-for-free-at-maplins#cms:502126889

It's seems Grayling's favourite phrase is 'Lets us be clear'..How many times did he repeat it?

But it was used as a way of dodging giving a clear answer........

I think "absolutely clear" might win....

Cathy Newman has just posted this on 'Twitter': "So Chris Grayling was 'absolutely clear' he hadn't seen our job centre letter....but we sent it to his press officer at 1.56pm. Whoops!"

Grayling - just another Tory liar.

Yesterday we learned that Barclays tried to claim £500 million of tax back it was not owed. Some of this was, apparently, a refund claim for tax never paid.

Now I have never condoned benefit cheating, and won’t. But let’s reflect for a moment. Which is the bigger issue here? Benefit cheating of £1,200 million or highly paid bankers setting out in organised fashion to seek to claim £500 billion they are not due and which they’d given their undertaking not to do?

Mel wrote:Hello Scarecrow,

Cameron will be saying soon "my friend dear Gideon told you lot a year or more ago that "things will get tough". " We always keep to our word". "We must reduce the deficit left by the last Labour government. They would be implementing tough measure had they returned to power in any case. We are all in it together and we must reduce taxes to revive growth".

"The NHS is safe in our hands and although private companies will be coming in and making profits, it will all be for the good of the patients".

I expect the electorate to swallow the excuses and the bitter pill as in my opinion they are still and will continue to be brainwashed as the media/press will not be attacking the government as they did when Brown was in office. The reason is because they are either running scared, or more aplicable because most are Tory owned and run.

I really hope you are right and I am wrong, however this lot have so far got away with murder, with little or no resistance from where I am standing.
.

A drop in exports left Britain's trade gap wider than expected in November, cementing concerns that exporters face a tough year ahead.

The Office for National Statistics said the UK's trade deficit widened £0.7bn to £8.6bn as exports to non-EU countries fell and imports from non-EU countries rose to a record high.

The gap compared with economists' forecasts for £8.3bn and with an upwardly revised £7.9bn in October.

Economists said that net trade did probably make a positive contribution to the UK economy in the final quarter of 2011 but would probably not be enough to avoid overall growth being virtually flat or even negative thanks in part to a slump in consumer spending.

Scarecrow wrote:Mel,

Ever wonder why Blair advocated 24 hour drinking ha ha , yeah to keep the proletariat happy and subdued , subservient , I understand your misgivings because unlike the French or Spanish the brits have been very subdued as a species , but this economic downturn is going to get much worse , the fact Cameron is being seen to rain in bonuses and HMRC is closing tax loopholes , says to me that they want to be able to turn to the electorate and say look , we are doing the correct thing , but alarm bells are ringing because of these moves by the coalition, they know how bad it is going to get and want to have been seen to have done something , there is a groundswell of opinion on the publics behalf , sure lot's still don't care at present , but we are not in the worst of it yet, argghhhh I sound like a right doom monger ha ha , but I am a realist , people think and vote with there pockets and a large section of the electorate are finding less spare change in there pockets.

Mark my words Spain will not sit on there backsides when Germany comes calling nor Portugal .

Hallo Scarecrow
The £500 million in avoided tax that Barclays will now have to pay could fund full-time jobs above the living wage for all the young people who have been working for free under a controversial government scheme, the Public and Commercial Services union says.

Divided between the 34,000 16 to 24-year-olds who have been put onto the government’s work experience programme, the money could pay salaries of GBP 14,706 a year, or GBP 8.08 an hour for a 35-hour week.

The UK national living wage – paid by an increasing number of employers – is GBP 7.20 an hour, and GBP 8.30 in London.

A tax loophole that allowed Barclays to avoid paying GBP 500 million in corporation tax has been closed by HM Revenue and Customs.

The union points out that this is a “drop in the ocean” compared to more than GBP 120 billion in tax revenue that is avoided, evaded or uncollected every year.

I might add, the same £500 million would pay for 10,000 staff at HMRC targeted on closing the tax gap.


you know people just may well soon wake up to what is going on...lets face it...there are two tax systems in the UK...one for the City of London and the other is for the rest of us...

Ivan wrote:I think "absolutely clear" might win....

Cathy Newman has just posted this on 'Twitter': "So Chris Grayling was 'absolutely clear' he hadn't seen our job centre letter....but we sent it to his press officer at 1.56pm. Whoops!"

Grayling - just another Tory liar.

You need to get this out there Ivan because this Gov't is making Liars of the young that are being forced to do this FORCED LABOUR and most of these companies will be Tory party donors it all boils down to Ill scratch your back and you scratch mine.

It is Grayling who has now done a U turn on WTW, following meetings today with employers. Ony one modification so far--- no loss of benefit if the trainee pulls out, other than if there is abuse or theft.

Well that is a start. Seems the Tories are losing ground after trying it on on all aspects of reform. I expect at the start they would have been happy to have been able to implement 50% of their evil doings, which will be enough Tory ideology implemented that would be too expensive to reverse by any incoming new government as with the Witches measures.

Mel wrote:It is Grayling who has now done a U turn on WTW, following meetings today with employers. Ony one modification so far--- no loss of benefit if the trainee pulls out, other than if there is abuse or theft.

Well that is a start. Seems the Tories are losing ground after trying it on on all aspects of reform. I expect at the start they would have been happy to have been able to implement 50% of their evil doings, which will be enough Tory ideology implemented that would be too expensive to reverse by any incoming new government as with the Witches measures.

Mel I read so much truth on this forum it is frightening, I agree the the Tory Ideology is been implemented along with the Tory Dogma then I hope the NHS Bill is stopped and flung out along with the entire Tory Gov't.

Red
I hope your wishes come true. It seems to me that every day now Camercon and his henchmen are having to defend every move they make.
This build up of unrest must register with those of the public who are just sailing along and not interested in politics. Some of it must rub off as it can't be missed unless one is hard of hearing together with poor eyesight.

The onslaught has begun now and will gather momentum especially if the unions start to take action on the unjust cuts, rather than acting simply on members worries about their pensions.

Nobody wants strikes, however they bring to the attention of those who are not politically minded to sit up and take notice of what is and what may happen to them if this Tory led lot continue their dirty work.

It is Grayling who has now done a U turn on WTW, following meetings today with employers. Ony one modification so far--- no loss of benefit if the trainee pulls out, other than if there is abuse or theft.

Now what was it he was trying to be "absolutely clear" about in the TV interview?

When they lie they like to do it BIG and to Everyone...........I wonder if there is likely to be an apology...........

astradt1 wrote:

It is Grayling who has now done a U turn on WTW, following meetings today with employers. Ony one modification so far--- no loss of benefit if the trainee pulls out, other than if there is abuse or theft.

Now what was it he was trying to be "absolutely clear" about in the TV interview?

When they lie they like to do it BIG and to Everyone...........I wonder if there is likely to be an apology...........

Are they really that stupid astradt1 to lie in front of everyone and have the TV proof of it, in regard of apology more like they will have to grovel.

Mel wrote:Red
I hope your wishes come true. It seems to me that every day now Camercon and his henchmen are having to defend every move they make.
This build up of unrest must register with those of the public who are just sailing along and not interested in politics. Some of it must rub off as it can't be missed unless one is hard of hearing together with poor eyesight.

The onslaught has begun now and will gather momentum especially if the unions start to take action on the unjust cuts, rather than acting simply on members worries about their pensions.

Nobody wants strikes, however they bring to the attention of those who are not politically minded to sit up and take notice of what is and what may happen to them if this Tory led lot continue their dirty work.

Hello Mel
its get interesting how Herr Cameron is having to spend more and more time covering up there cock-ups...I think your right there is a gathering momentum within Joe public at last...Its slow because the Tory party and there friends own 90% of the media...but I have noted that some are starting to question a hole rang of issues now...its interesting how the media has tried to turn this question of a possable strike that the Olympic's into some sort of attack on the whole state... So are the Tory party and there friends in the media now telling us that unions and other people cannot use there right to "Freedom of expression just because the likes of Sky news thinks the guy doing the shot putt is more important than the rights of the people who live and work here? They are trying to turn this into a left wing issue...well I could not care who goes marching on the street..left or right...as everyone has the right to "Freedom of expression. However, its just amazing how they are trying to dress this up...but then who are the real winners at any sporting event? yep the media who sell the rights for billions. who owns the media...yep the Tory party...

Mel wrote:It is Grayling who has now done a U turn on WTW, following meetings today with employers. Ony one modification so far--- no loss of benefit if the trainee pulls out, other than if there is abuse or theft.
....

Grayling, Lansley and a clutch of grey Tory clones appear on our television screens apparently for the purpose of defying Gravity every night. Only sycophants could be convinced by their mouthings, which clearly come from some basement rehearsal room in which Government policy wonks teach them how to deal with Paxman and/or Humphrys without bursting into tears or storming out of the studio with microphone still attached.

oftenwrong wrote:

Mel wrote:It is Grayling who has now done a U turn on WTW, following meetings today with employers. Ony one modification so far--- no loss of benefit if the trainee pulls out, other than if there is abuse or theft.
....

Grayling, Lansley and a clutch of grey Tory clones appear on our television screens apparently for the purpose of defying Gravity every night. Only sycophants could be convinced by their mouthings, which clearly come from some basement rehearsal room in which Government policy wonks teach them how to deal with Paxman and/or Humphrys without bursting into tears or storming out of the studio with microphone still attached.

Grayling has to be one of the most stupid Tories of the lot...Hard to beat Lansley, Fox, Cameron and Gideon...but he did on TV..as how do you make a u-turn sound like its not a u-turn? after companies complained about his policy...just Amazing but he did...

Please go to this link, it's about Britain's jobless, and what they go through, in detail.

I have to be honest and say that I have never prescribed to the "benefit scrounger" way of thinking. I hope that the following information contained in this link will be of interest to those who choose to think dfifferently.

Here's the link.

http://www.workingrights.co.uk/UnemploymentBenefit.html

Ugliness, like Beauty, lies in the eye of the beholder.

It's interesting to speculate whether those worthy Socialists who set up The Welfare State in the 1940s would now change anything if they were miraculously restored to our midst. The idea of a Safety Net for everyone sick or needy is unassailable. Who would deny a helping hand to a fellow man in distress?

Sixty years on, however, the welfare state has become a Dependency Culture with people feeling entitled. Entitled to the good life, pleasant accommodation, a good job and perfect health without any corresponding input.

Maybe everyone should first be "entitled" to a free trip to Africa, to examine at first hand the economics of sleeping under a tree and begging or stealing for our supper, so as to understand the alternatives.

oftenwrong wrote:Ugliness, like Beauty, lies in the eye of the beholder.

It's interesting to speculate whether those worthy Socialists who set up The Welfare State in the 1940s would now change anything if they were miraculously restored to our midst. The idea of a Safety Net for everyone sick or needy is unassailable. Who would deny a helping hand to a fellow man in distress?

Sixty years on, however, the welfare state has become a Dependency Culture with people feeling entitled. Entitled to the good life, pleasant accommodation, a good job and perfect health without any corresponding input.

Maybe everyone should first be "entitled" to a free trip to Africa, to examine at first hand the economics of sleeping under a tree and begging or stealing for our supper, so as to understand the alternatives.

""""Sixty years on, however, the welfare state has become a Dependency Culture with people feeling entitled. Entitled to the good life, pleasant accommodation, a good job and perfect health without any corresponding input"".

Never have I read such meaningless garbage. You sir need to understand plenty, the trouble is your ilk never do.

Ivanhoe wrote:Please go to this link, it's about Britain's jobless, and what they go through, in detail.

I have to be honest and say that I have never prescribed to the "benefit scrounger" way of thinking. I hope that the following information contained in this link will be of interest to those who choose to think dfifferently.

Here's the link.

http://www.workingrights.co.uk/UnemploymentBenefit.html

I have seen TV programs on this topic, and it is disgraceful when quite a few thousand are on the dole because of Scam..er.ons cuts to the public sector jobs you know the jobs scam..er..on said the private sector would pick up, and even the ones that have got jobs they are only part-time with part-time wages. The other jobs available are the ones with zero hours contracts what good is that to anybody "No F**KING Good at All".

Great post OW and spot on......unfortunately for Ivanhoe

There is none so blind as those who will not see

The fact is, you can't tar them all with the same brush. Like everything else in life, there are those who are genuine and those who are not. Do you wish to penalise those who are not at the expense of those of the majority who who are is the question.
Those who have never suffered unemployment, often speak about the subject with no feelings or compassion and frankly speak out of their ar5es.

Mel wrote:The fact is, you can't tar them all with the same brush. Like everything else in life, there are those who are genuine and those who are not. Do you wish to penalise those who are not at the expense of those of the majority who who are is the question.
Those who have never suffered unemployment, often speak about the subject with no feelings or compassion and frankly speak out of their ar5es.

Brilliant, I could not agree more.

Good to agree Ivanhoe.

Mel wrote:Good to agree Ivanhoe.

It certainly is Mel.

One of the tweets quoted by Ivan today:

I thought we had a privatised rail industry? Why are we subsidising it while shareholders take the profits?

We are subsidising the privatised rail industry PRECISELY to pay the dividends to shareholders. When the Tories decided to flog off the Railways they recognised straight away that there was no profit there to attract a buyer. Enter Plan "B" - subsidisation.

Hello gang, been out of it for a week. Please read Branson's note on his loss of the west coast line franchise. The east coast line is being run by the government, yes, this coalition government. Is THAT not nationalisation?

blueturando wrote:Great post OW and spot on......unfortunately for Ivanhoe

There is none so blind as those who will not see

Oh, I see bluey, only too well. but you are right. There is indeed, none so blind................................

Oh, I see bluey, only too well. but you are right. There is indeed, none so blind................................

Wasn't it you Ivanhoe who a while back was telling us you where having problems wiv your minces.

Boys and girls at 16yrs age are being taken on by ALL the big supermarkets.
They are paid £2.50 per hour to stack shelves. When they reach 17yrs age they are fired because they then warrant the min wage and another set of 16yr olds are taken on in the cycle. There is no contract protection in place.

A woman at Sinsbury's has worked there for 16yrs she has told me. She is on £6.50 per hour and because of her low income she is able to claim housing benefit and pays no Council Tax.
The taxpayer is subsidising the shareholders of Sainsbury's and all the other greedy supermarket robbers.

There's little wrong with gaining a year's work-experience, even for no pay at all. It helps a possible future employer to identify a candidate who is not work-shy, understands commitment, and can follow instructions.

There are two types of applicant for unskilled work - the first type needs to be told, "See that bucket? I want you to take it by the handle and carry it over to that tap on the corner of the building. Fill the bucket with water and bring the full bucket back to me here without spilling too much of it."

The second type can be asked to fill a bucket. They get the job.

Supermarkets have to comply with Employment Law. If there are bad practices in the industry the Laws need to be changed.

"Supermarkets have to comply with Employment Law. If there are bad practices in the industry the Laws need to be changed."

I doubt if the slave labour loving Tories will change the very much needed laws OW.

"Work experience" I agree is a good thing, if there is something other than the sack at the end of it, rather than simply the blatant expolitation of the young. There is forced cheap labour created by the usual Tory ideology of creating high unemployment in other areas of employment.

Things were easier in our day,when one could walk out of one job into another the next day. Not so since Thatchers distructive measures.

Mel wrote:"Supermarkets have to comply with Employment Law. If there are bad practices in the industry the Laws need to be changed."

I doubt if the slave labour loving Tories will change the very much needed laws OW.

"Work experience" I agree is a good thing, if there is something other than the sack at the end of it, rather than simply the blatant expolitation of the young. There is forced cheap labour created by the usual Tory ideology of creating high unemployment in other areas of employment.

Things were easier in our day,when one could walk out of one job into another the next day. Not so since Thatchers distructive measures.

Precisely. I left school in the 60's and was never out of work. I am 64 now, and well realise that Britain has gone back to victorianism in more ways than one.

oftenwrong wrote:There's little wrong with gaining a year's work-experience, even for no pay at all. It helps a possible future employer to identify a candidate who is not work-shy, understands commitment, and can follow instructions.

There are two types of applicant for unskilled work - the first type needs to be told, "See that bucket? I want you to take it by the handle and carry it over to that tap on the corner of the building. Fill the bucket with water and bring the full bucket back to me here without spilling too much of it."

The second type can be asked to fill a bucket. They get the job.

Supermarkets have to comply with Employment Law. If there are bad practices in the industry the Laws need to be changed.

That's just it, it wouldnt be work experiennce under a Tory Government, it would be exploitative slave labour