The credit crunch, a global crisis or not?

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The credit crunch, a global crisis or not ?

This was the title of the longest running, active subject on the now discontinued MSN message boards, and when those boards were discontinued the thread was transferred to the newly created Cutting Edge board in March 2011.

OK so who will begin then ? ( Mark III )

follow the link my lovely. OH yus it is!

Early results of today's General Election in Spain suggest that the former Socialist government has been severely punished for having been in charge when the Credit Crunch occurred.

More turkeys voting for an early Christmas. I wonder how many of the idiots who voted for the right-wing party in Spain today will be regretting it in a few months time when they lose their jobs, their public services and maybe their homes?

I would hope that these bonds are worth somethin. At the moment they are deciding whether to make it a eu effort or individual effort.

Whatever the decision, they should try to buy the bonds back for less than they paid for them, making a profit, then take out new bonds.

( the independent)
" We must ensure nothing spoils that Public Sector strike next week , George, so that we have yet another super excuse for why we can't deliver all those fanciful economic promises we made to get elected..."

Ivan wrote:More turkeys voting for an early Christmas. I wonder how many of the idiots who voted for the right-wing party in Spain today will be regretting it in a few months time when they lose their jobs, their public services and maybe their homes?

I don't know if you have been keeping up with the news lately but,

MADRID, Oct. 28 (Xinhua) -- Unemployment in Spain is close to the five million mark and still rising, according to figures published Friday by Spain's National Institute of Statistics (INE).

The INE study Inquest into the Active Population said that 4,978,300 Spaniards are currently out of work with the unemployment rate climbing to 21.5 percent in the third quarter of 2011.

The Spaniards have voted for a party they hope will get them out of the mess the previous party left them with.
Sounds familiar.

More turkeys voting for an early Christmas. I wonder how many of the idiots who voted for the right-wing party in Spain today will be regretting it in a few months time when they lose their jobs, their public services and maybe their homes?.

IVAN......I think they already have lost them, which is why they will vote the right wing party in. Seems like the socialist policies of spend spend spend didn't work for them either....strange one hey?!

Looks like the new Spanish Government will soon be needing to 'discover' that their crisis is due to global conditions, and that they have been beset by Royal Weddings, inclement weather and all manner of strikes and other distractions which have suddenly caused matters to be 'beyond their control' Now that DOES sound familiar...

So Phil I guess you are saying it's not the fault of individual government at all, but just a global problem?

So Phil I guess you are saying it's not the fault of individual government at all, but just a global problem?

Of course it's not......It's the fault of the last labour government Dave said so...And I believe Dave. ....Don't you?

blueturando wrote:So Phil I guess you are saying it's not the fault of individual government at all, but just a global problem?

I think the experience of having had the benefit of Cameron, Osborne and their cohorts has made the position very clear for us all. Where Britain has economic problems under a Labour government it is entirely the fault of the administration , but when a Tory government attains office the difficulties are immediately self-diagnosed as a global phenomenon.

Thank heaven we have the benefit of this Tory-inspired explanation or we would have made the error of thinking that , as things have got steadily worse since May 2010, the Conservatives are simply a bunch of unashamed hypocrites...

To be true capitalist, the banks should have been allowed to fail. Bailing them out has given them the power they previously could only dream of. Thank you Labour, truly a blight on all things sensible.

tlttf. Please tell us how you would have dealt with the prospect of having no banks at all. None. No wages, no cheques, no borrowings. Limited to the cash in your pocket - which might not be accepted anyway. No bills paid. Unusable credit cards. No savings. No investments. No pension. No Insurance. Immobilised car when the tank falls empty.

What a mistake Chancellor Darling made in denying us all that excitement.

Re: The credit crunch, a global crisis or not?

a global crisis OFFICIAL

Chancellor George Osborne confirmed yesterday in his Autumn Statement:

"The Government is making reductions to spending because maintaining sound public finances is essential to protect the economy from global instability."

(The Chancellor made no reference to the previous Chancellor.)

George Osborne came up with a new phrase yesterday "Credit storm"

I wondered at the time whether he was trying to make history by coining a phrase that would become well known.

Well it would be better than been known as the chancellor who got it completely wrong.

teresa may used his term today - they are all jumping on the bandwagon!!


She should still see a decent hairdresser - looked on SKY NEWs like she had left bed at 3 am. for a quick pee and was on her way back to kip!

The Performance of Cameron in PMQs today confirms the Tory belief that 1997 was followed immediately by 2010, with nothing in between.

Cameron says the strike went down like a damp squid, no it didn't, but he would like the public to believe that.
Cameron say's the public are against the strike, i have seen two polls on this subject. One poll said there was 74% public support for it, another says, 66% supported it.
Yes David, you do have the country's support, but not this one, your country is cloud cuckoo land.

Today's Haka will have satisfied egos on both sides, and negotiations will now continue in private.

Compromise agreements will be reached depending upon each sides' perception of the Public's real opinion. Everything will be resolved well in time for The Queen's jubilee and the Olympics.

Meantime, at a Nuclear Test Centre in Iran ......

Obviously, the coalition are most upset that the people do not have their friends needs at heart!

How uncommonly disenchanting of us!!

" Meantime, at a Nuclear Test Centre in Iran ......"

Hmmm - Cameron-v-Ahmedinejad : difficult to know which is the bigger sh*t.

If Gove was a runner there would be no contest, however.....

If you want to see how/why the country is in the shyte, you really should follow the link. Fantastic explanation and rings true to me.

The seeds of this disaster pre-dates the banking crisis!

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/535571985?-24353

Pensions and Other Promises

(thisislondon.co.uk)
" I know I said I would support you for five years , David, but my party just can't afford the political cost. Look on it as a damp squib..."

And what is the political cost to the Liberals????? They are part of the government for the first time in decades.

The usual sour grapes from the Labour misfits...Didn't Nick want to play with you are the last election...Ahhh bless!!

There you go Bluey - imagining that anyone who detests the Tory Heroes has to be a fan of the Labour Party. It shows no more imagination than believing that a critic of Liverpool FC automatically supports Manchester United, so do remove your thumbs from up your bottom,there's a good chap.

We shall see in due course what damage has been caused to The Cleggies by becoming infected with those unspeakable Tory-borne diseases, but isn't Cameron a lucky boy that - for the present at least - the LibDems are not quite so prone to simply tearing up agreements made, as wantonly as the duplicitous government does to those poor sods who rely upon a public service pension!

And before you leap excitedly to yet another errant conclusion - no, I am not a public servant, either...

Better luck next time and , in the meantime, here is a little treat for you to fawn over :



(cameron.jpg)

"Son of Maggie" clone, (was Came, Ca, grochle! olde Scots for spit) the Mogwy that was dropped in the bath? (pity it was not boiling oil)

He looks quite good there dont you think Phil?

He looks quite good there dont you think Phil?

MWUCH betterer hairdo than Teresa MAy MP!!

Bluey : definitely needs a bit more eye-liner, but a good attempt to look as deeply unpleasant as his heroine. Maybe a few more charm lessons from Jeremy Clarkson would assist in honing that typically-Tory talent for pure skin-crawling ignorance...

Phil I sense some bitterness in you towards my Tory brothers and sisters? Did we not let you join the party or something? Please try again and we will review your application.

PS....Maggie loves you

No bitterness at all, Bluey. In avoiding such an emotion, I have always sought to concentrate on maintaining a simple and pure contempt for the Conservative way and it has proved no effort at all, given the amply justifiable supply of reasons to do so.

Please don't hurry unduly to study my application for membership, as hell will be busy freezing over before I generate a genuine interest in joining you and your fellow unfeeling and self-interested citizens. ( Not much offence intended, naturally).

Please give my regards to Lady Thatcher and convey to her my hope that any difficulties she is suffering are not too trivial...

Phil....I jest, but I love the banter

Have great weekend people

Off to Pease Pottage for the weekend to enjoy a few glasses of Champers, catch up with a few of the comrades and pay homage to Queen Maggie...I'll save a table for you Phil

Well Phil if you are not a Conservative, how is it you have the Conservative Pease Pottage club down to a T. I can't believe you made all that up, it seemed so genuine.

A genuine Tory is one who coughs up for the bung.

What a puzzle and contradiction I am , to be sure : on the one hand being so beastly about Cameron and his Troops while ,on the other, extolling the virtues of Pease Pottage Conservative Club and its splendid members .

Which is the genuine Phil Hornby? Others must judge...

Boris Offers His Sympathy

(davisla.wordpress.com)
" I can't begin to tell you how mortified I feel about David's current problems..."

tlttf wrote:

If you want to see how/why the country is in the shyte, you really should follow the link. Fantastic explanation and rings true to me.

The seeds of this disaster pre-dates the banking crisis!

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/535571985?-24353

I always find it very interesting that the Tory party blames everything on the last Government while overlooking there own role in the 2008 banking crisis.


During the end of the 1970's into the 1980's British Conservative Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and the City of London financial interests who backed her, introduced wholesale measures of privatization, state budget cuts, moves against labor and deregulation of the financial markets. She did so in parallel with similar moves in the USA initiated by advisers around President Ronald Reagan. The claim was that hard medicine was needed to curb inflation and that the bloated state bureaucracy was a central problem.

For almost three decades, Anglo-American university economic faculties have turned to Thatcherite deregulation of financial markets as ‘the efficient way,' in the process, undoing many of the hard-fought gains secured for personal social security, public health care and pension security of the population. Now the ‘poster child' economy of the Thatcher Revolution, Great Britain, is sinking like the proverbial Titanic, a testimony to the incompetence of what is generally called Neo-liberalism or free market ideology.

As the Neo-liberal revolution began in the economies of the USA and UK, it should not be not surprising that the epi-center of catastrophe in the global crisis now unfolding also lies with the economies of the USA and UK, as well as a handful of economies, including Ireland Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Iceland, all of which embraced the free market Thatcherite agenda most strongly in recent years. Notably, the man who personally implemented Thatcherite financial market

A sample of most recent British developments is instructive. Britain 's economy is about to suffer its most vicious slump since 1946, shrinking by a drastic 2.8 per cent this year, according to EU latest estimates. The UK is predicted to suffer the worst recession of any large European economy.

The consequences for the UK will include soaring unemployment, while the economy also teeters on the brink of full-blown deflation. Unemployment will rise by more than 900,000 people over the next 12 months, driving the jobless total to 2.7 million by the end of the year

Origins of the neo-liberal model

The so-called neo-liberal finance model which was espoused by the Thatcher government after 1979 had its origins in a decision by leading Anglo-American financial powers and their circle that it was time to begin a wholesale clawing back of the concessions which they had granted under, as they saw it, duress, during the great depression of the 1930's and in the case of Britain the postwar economic difficulties.

True economic causality was obscured and reams of press copy from the Friedmanite free market camp, during the Reagan and Thatcher era claimed that the ‘defeat of inflation' had been due to the ruthless discipline of Volcker and Thatcher. That was, we were told, again and again, the reason why the market should be unfettered from government regulation, freed to the devices of its own unbounded innovative genius. The results of that unfettered ‘humanistic capitalism' or what Alan Greenspan approvingly called the ‘revolution in finance' is now bringing both meccas of neo-liberalism, the United States and Great Britain to economic ruin. Somewhere between this and Stalin's Soviet central planning there lies a better way.

FUNNY HOW THEY MISSED THIS ALL OUT.

Stox 16 wrote:

I always find it very interesting that the Tory party blames everything on the last Government while overlooking there own role in the 2008 banking crisis. ......

The post-2008 Tory Party line has been that New Labour "shouldn't have allowed such free rein in the City".

If they were protesting during the time that their business pals were apparently coining it, the British Press was very naughty in concealing that from the Public.

The Conservatives did not have a clue what to say or what to do when the banking crisis hit in 2008

Only a few days before the worst of the crisis hit accross the world, the Nobel prize committee awarded the prize in economics to professor Paul Krugman, this is what professor Krugman said as the crisis was gripping markets accross the world.

He went on: "Mr Brown and Alistair Darling, the chancellor of the Exchequer ... have defined the character of the worldwide rescue effort, with other wealthy nations playing catch-up."

He praised the British Government for having acted with "stunning speed" to address the financial crisis, again contrasting Mr Brown's efforts with those of Henry Paulson, the US Treasury Secretary.

"This combination of clarity and decisiveness hasn't been matched by any other Western government, least of all our own," he wrote.

Despite initially basing the US plan on buying up "toxic" mortgage debts, Mr Paulson has since suggested that he may follow Mr Brown in injecting money directly into the banks as fresh capital. Several European leaders are also expected to announce similar plans.

Luckily for the world economy, however, Gordon Brown and his officials are making sense," he added. "And they may have shown us the way through this crisis." [ END ]

And every time I hear Osborne, Cameron and yes, even Clegg saying how they inherited a defecit from the previous government, it makes my blood boil, when Gordon Brown took decisive action to rescue the country fron going down the pan, and when much of the rest of the western world followed - the Conservatives had nothing to say, they did not have a clue.

And looking at the state of the economy now, they still havent a clue

witchfinder wrote:The Conservatives did not have a clue what to say or what to do when the banking crisis hit in 2008

Only a few days before the worst of the crisis hit accross the world, the Nobel prize committee awarded the prize in economics to professor Paul Krugman, this is what professor Krugman said as the crisis was gripping markets accross the world.

He went on: "Mr Brown and Alistair Darling, the chancellor of the Exchequer ... have defined the character of the worldwide rescue effort, with other wealthy nations playing catch-up."

He praised the British Government for having acted with "stunning speed" to address the financial crisis, again contrasting Mr Brown's efforts with those of Henry Paulson, the US Treasury Secretary.

"This combination of clarity and decisiveness hasn't been matched by any other Western government, least of all our own," he wrote.

Despite initially basing the US plan on buying up "toxic" mortgage debts, Mr Paulson has since suggested that he may follow Mr Brown in injecting money directly into the banks as fresh capital. Several European leaders are also expected to announce similar plans.

Luckily for the world economy, however, Gordon Brown and his officials are making sense," he added. "And they may have shown us the way through this crisis." [ END ]

And every time I hear Osborne, Cameron and yes, even Clegg saying how they inherited a defecit from the previous government, it makes my blood boil, when Gordon Brown took decisive action to rescue the country fron going down the pan, and when much of the rest of the western world followed - the Conservatives had nothing to say, they did not have a clue.

And looking at the state of the economy now, they still havent a clue

I could not agree more with you myself Witchfinder. I also happen to believe that what Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling did at the time of the World banking crisis was one of the most skillful acts of economic management I can remember seeing within my life time. you only need to look at the mess of the great depression of 1929 to see what could of happened to see this. The mental pressure on both of them must of been almost unbearable at the time. as not only did people wake up with still having a bank account but a roof over there heads and a plan the rest of the world could follow and understand. not a bad days work at all in my view.

yet today I hear many argument's being put forward by our friends on the Right who blame the Last government for weak regulation. yet when i ask them to show any world wide banking regulation that was put in place beforehand that stop what happened here in the UK or world wide. there is no reply at all? I wounder why? so what are they trying to tell us now? are they trying to say that Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling should of had some great big insight in too all of this? or that he could act like some sort of Astrologer and see all this coming? if so then this is utter rubbish.

The other more interesting point is the right will not face up to the role they played in all of this? as this was a crisis that was made some 30 years ago and not in just 2008. I have yet to hear one Tory anywhere come on the TV or write in a newspaper and own up to Mrs Thatchers Deregulation lay at the root of this banking crash in 2008. for me this was the most irresponsible act in the history of the city of London. in fact i can still remember Mrs Thatcher tell the world that the UK would move away from what she called the outdated manufacturing industry to the new free market financial service sector and the 1980s big bang was the start of this great new dawn for the people of the UK. so by the time of Labour's 1997 General election win the Government had one of the most unbalanced economy's in the world. for me Labour's biggest mistake was to not stop this movement away from our core manufacturing industrial base and leave us with this unbalanced economy that hanged on just the financial service sector.

yet the seeds of what we face today are a direct result of Mrs Thatchers time economic bomb she left us. I have spent the last 30 years arguing that unless we move away from this obsession with the financial service sector and back into manufacturing industry a crash like 1929 or 2008 was always likely to happen. as this would lead to act of extreme greed by very few at the top. as the lessons that this would not happen are to be found in the 1929 crash.