Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

by Papaumau Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

I have found that the stance against homosexuality - and in many other "biblical sins" - in almost all of the religions of the world is based on writings in their holy books.

As the word that is accepted as the word of their Gods is either said to be spoken directly to the humans that report it, ( and in many of these cases these "conduits" from the Gods are found to simply be schizophrenic ), then the word that is written by the fallible human scribes of old into these holy books is at risk of being seen as the flawed interpretation of what these scribes and prophets said they know and found to be true.

The faithful - as in all of the details surrounding faith - believe in their faith because faith requires no proof and when they act on what they find in their holy books, ( although none of the contents of these books has ever been proven to be right or accurate in fact ), their behaviour, as a result, is based on myth rather than even on secular laws. In other words, because their faith dictates that everything that is in these holy books must be true, what they find there that connects to "sin" must also be true.

I have always felt that as far as the laws of the land that I live in should never be based on religious faith, I can only take the stance that if these laws ARE in any way influenced by religion then they are not laws that can apply to everybody or that can be applied to any kind of secular rules or regulations.

Regards.....

Papaumau.

by snowyflake Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:57 am

The ONLY reason those laws are in place in Africa and growing is because of religion.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:34 am

Very true, and the reason religion is thriving in the developing world is a lack of proper education and the poverty that is the cause of a poorly or completely uneducated populace.

by Greatest I am Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:23 pm

snowyflake wrote:The ONLY reason those laws are in place in Africa and growing is because of religion.

I agree.

Just more blood. That is a religious staple.

Christians symbolically drink it at every mass.

Ummm, good blood.

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:29 pm

Papaumau wrote:
I have found that the stance against homosexuality - and in many other "biblical sins" - in almost all of the religions of the world is based on writings in their holy books.

As the word that is accepted as the word of their Gods is either said to be spoken directly to the humans that report it, ( and in many of these cases these "conduits" from the Gods are found to simply be schizophrenic ), then the word that is written by the fallible human scribes of old into these holy books is at risk of being seen as the flawed interpretation of what these scribes and prophets said they know and found to be true.

The faithful - as in all of the details surrounding faith - believe in their faith because faith requires no proof and when they act on what they find in their holy books, ( although none of the contents of these books has ever been proven to be right or accurate in fact ), their behaviour, as a result, is based on myth rather than even on secular laws. In other words, because their faith dictates that everything that is in these holy books must be true, what they find there that connects to "sin" must also be true.

I have always felt that as far as the laws of the land that I live in should never be based on religious faith, I can only take the stance that if these laws ARE in any way influenced by religion then they are not laws that can apply to everybody or that can be applied to any kind of secular rules or regulations.

Regards.....

Papaumau.

No argument.

I can argue against a judge for a crime but cannot argue against an invisible God for a sin which makes secular law automatically more fair and just.

To not have the ability to defend ones action to the power over us who is judging us and responsible for our fate is unjust.

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:10 pm

polyglide wrote:
**Most people I find have an open mind regarding most things and are willing to consider the opinions of others
**no law will change a persons opinion if they are of that opinion.

Nothing contradictory here.

Laws may not change some people's minds in the short term but it does forbid their egregious immoral behaviour. Take fox hunting for example, it's been stopped by a law and whilst there are still people who want to go hunting they can't and the same is true for religious bigots who still mistakenly think their beliefs still allow them to discriminate against people, they're going to find out that just like the fox hunters the law won't tolerate their heinous behaviour.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:23 am

Leviticus (19:12) "Do not cut your bodies for the dead, and do not mark your skin with tattoos. "

Presumably a gay person with tattoos is doubly damned?
So do those asserting that gay men and women are damned also belive those who have tattoos are damned? What if they also wear a cotton polyester shirt?

by polyglide Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:43 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Where in the Bible does it say that Gay people will be damned.
The Bible says that it is wrong as is many other things said to be wrong but it does not say they will be damned.

All will be judged according to God's judgement.

There are far more things beffiting of damnation, if you believe in damnation literally.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:11 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, Where in the Bible does it say that Gay people will be damned. The Bible says that it is wrong as is many other things said to be wrong but it does not say they will be damned. All will be judged according to God's judgement. There are far more things beffiting of damnation, if you believe in damnation literally.

The bible says wearing cotton polyester shirts is wrong, I give such idiocy the same credence I give it's condemnations of gay people. Why would a gay person be judged for being exactly as they were "created?" That makes no sense. I don't believe in damnation at all, obviously, as I am an atheist. I am merely pointing pointing out the stupidity and hypocrisy of some theists who cherry pick the parts of religious texts they want to believe, especially when they choose the ones that reflect their own prejudices.

I find the notion of damnation totally absurd, what possible point would there be in punishing someone for how they lived their lives after it is over and they can't do anything about it? Punishment is used by humans to make recompense for crimes, and entails a certain amount of rehabilitation or it is pointless. So the notion of eternal damnation is nonsensical, as it would achieve nothing beyond petty vindictive revenge.

by Greatest I am Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:01 am

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
Where in the Bible does it say that Gay people will be damned.
The Bible says that it is wrong as is many other things said to be wrong but it does not say they will be damned.

All will be judged according to God's judgement.

There are far more things beffiting of damnation, if you believe in damnation literally.

Do you trust God's judgement when his first judgement as judge was to decide that it was good justice to punish the innocent instead of the guilty?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Even before any sin had to be forgiven.

Rather strange don't you think?

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:48 am

I see your point. Though I don't find it strange as this kind of irrational and illogical contradictions are precisely what I'd ecpect from a book with multiple human authors, originating in an era of extreme superstition and ignorance, at least by contemporary standards, which had been subjectively edited and interpreted again and again.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:58 am

When in other posts and threads I've talked about universal human rights it's prejudice and bigotry acted on against minorities such as gay people that such rights are precisely designed to eradicate. As well as protecting the rights of everyone else of course.

With such rights it would be illegal to discriminate against someone just because they happened to be gay.

by Greatest I am Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:39 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:When in other posts and threads I've talked about universal human rights it's prejudice and bigotry acted on against minorities such as gay people that such rights are precisely designed to eradicate. As well as protecting the rights of everyone else of course.

With such rights it would be illegal to discriminate against someone just because they happened to be gay.

You forget the hypocrisy of the world.

Gay rights and human/female rights are in the U.N. charter but if you held the U.N. members to it, the number of represented countries would be nearly 0.

Even Russia, a favored member is anti-gay. Just to name one.

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:00 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:When in other posts and threads I've talked about universal human rights it's prejudice and bigotry acted on against minorities such as gay people that such rights are precisely designed to eradicate. As well as protecting the rights of everyone else of course.

With such rights it would be illegal to discriminate against someone just because they happened to be gay.

You forget the hypocrisy of the world.

Gay rights and human/female rights are in the U.N. charter but if you held the U.N. members to it, the number of represented countries would be nearly 0.

Even Russia, a favored member is anti-gay. Just to name one.

Regards
DL

The growing homophobia and prejudice in Russia is directly linked to a rise in Christianity since the disintegration of the former soviet union. Stephen Fry made a series of programmes about countries that have appalling records on violence and prejudice against gay minorities. In one programme he interviewed a right wing Christian politician on Russia who is trying to drive through a number of homophobic laws.

by Greatest I am Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:24 pm

I cannot see any great improvement universally until our Western countries and institutions like the U.N. start to walk their talk.

It is useless for us to put standards out there if no one is going to pay attention to them.

Russia and others will look at the Western hypocrisy and just follow suit or ignore the standards altogether, and really, what can the West say when we do not walk our own talk?

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:26 am

In her book Grace (eventually) Anne Lamott Keenly states: "You can safely assume you've created god in your own image when it turns out that god hates all the same people you do."

Well quite. Here's another quote:
"It's easy enough to say God hates so and so, but when pressed to the point, how many would ever muse: "Well , I don't mind these people so much, but God hates them, so grab your torch and pitchforks!"?

by Greatest I am Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:54 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:In her book Grace (eventually) Anne Lamott Keenly states: "You can safely assume you've created god in your own image when it turns out that god hates all the same people you do."

Well quite. Here's another quote:
"It's easy enough to say God hates so and so, but when pressed to the point, how many would ever muse: "Well , I don't mind these people so much, but God hates them, so grab your torch and pitchforks!"?

Gnostic Christians are a tad more honest than most and admit that the hate that our God has for whatever we hate is well justified as we are the ones who tell our God who to hate, so to speak, because we are our own God.

We step up to any blame or praise for our hate and do not hide behind or say it is due to a guy in the sky.

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:26 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, Where in the Bible does it say that Gay people will be damned.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind (arsenokoitai)," 1 Cor 6:9, KJV

by Greatest I am Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:34 am

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, Where in the Bible does it say that Gay people will be damned.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind (arsenokoitai)," 1 Cor 6:9, KJV

Christianity has been in the forefront of gay bashing and discrimination forever in the West and now that the majority have forced them to rethink their immoral position, they have somehow forgotten that they has been the cause of gay misery forever.

If that is not the epitome of hypocrisy then I don't know what is.

Discriminate against gays. Who us. Oh no. We love gays.

Christians are even too immoral to feel shame or repent.

But not our friend here of course. He has always loved gays and never though gay sex wrong. Right Poly?

Regards
DL

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:15 am

Just as with slavery. I look forward to the time when Christian apologists will rewrite history, and will be piously claiming to have led the vanguard in the fight for gay rights, as they so often now do with slavery, as any slave owning plantation owners in the deep south were anything other than Christian, or the slavers in the uk and their crews that sailed to the African coast to kidnap men women and children were the few non-Christians living in the uk at that time . I should move this topic into the telling lies for God thread.

Polyglide and his gay "friends," whom he's happy to decry on here as abnormal, unnatural, perverted, deviants. Yet pretend they're his friends when face to face. If I though that about someone I should not want to be their friends, indeed I should consider it extreme hypocrisy to pretend they were.

by polyglide Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:25 pm

Dr. Sheldon,
I would think that all homosexuals would accept the fact that they are not normal in the general terms accepted as such.

I decry no one I just state facts accepted by the vast majority of humanity.

If you read the definition of perverted it includes homosexuality.

It also includes anything else that is used in a manner not intended for purpose and no amount of nonsense will change the reality.

I have said several times , I think homosexuality is wrong, just read what I say and not what you think I say, I also think many other things are wrong and many of them are also perversions.

I cannot understand your obssession with homosexuals, I have no problem with them, I just think what they do is wrong and of no benifit to mankind other than self gratification, if you feel otherwise then please tell me exactly what they do that benifits mankind through their sexual choice.

by polyglide Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:28 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Please tell me what rights are denied homosexuals.

by polyglide Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:30 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
The biggest problem in the world for homosexuals is not through Christianity, but from those who would stone them to death etc; and I can see no way whatsoever of changing their minds.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:03 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr. Sheldon, I would think that all homosexuals would accept the fact that they are not normal in the general terms accepted as such.

Would you? Not the norm is not the same as not normal, I believe we've covered this, so what "general terms are you talking about, and what evidence have you that gay people think this about themselves? You could of course test your theory by telling your gay friends how YOU feel about them, that they are abnormal, unnatural, perverted deviants, your own words.

Polyglide wrote:I decry no one I just state facts accepted by the vast majority of humanity.

I beg to differ, as have many other posters, and of course the moderators who temporarily banned you for some of your more homophobic posts.

Polyglide wrote:If you read the definition of perverted it includes homosexuality.

No it doesn't, and the last time you posted this lie i asked you to show a dictionary definition that did this, you couldn't of course, and simply resorted them to semantics. It's a lie to claim it, and it certainly decries gay people.

Polyglide wrote: It also includes anything else that is used in a manner not intended for purpose and no amount of nonsense will change the reality.

I'll happily defer to your expertise on nonsense, but you're are making the prejudiced and bigoted assumption that gay people are behaving "in a manner not intended for purpose" and you've already been shown research proving that homosexuality is a perfectly natural occurrence throughout the animal kingdom. You've also been shown scientific medical opinion that accepts it is a perfectly normal natural variation of adult human sexual desire.

Polyglide wrote: I have said several times , I think homosexuality is wrong,

You have yes, then tried to claim you're not prejudiced against gay people, and have gay friends. I'm dubious.

Polyglide wrote:just read what I say and not what you think I say.

It''s not my intention to misrepresent anyone of course, unfortunately your posts are always confused and contradictory, and your English I'm afraid is fairly poor, but please post anything I've misunderstood and I'll take another look at it. Only you have a habit of blaming others when your posts are so often not understood as you claim you had intended.

Polyglide wrote: I cannot understand your obssession with homosexuals,

I have no obsession with homosexuals, it's the thread topic, (something else you've not bothered to read perhaps?) and I never started the thread. So stop making up childish lies to insult me please.

Polyglide wrote:I have no problem with them,

Sounds like you do tbh.

Polyglide wrote:I just think what they do is wrong and of no benifit to mankind other than self gratification, if you feel otherwise then please tell me exactly what they do that benifits mankind through their sexual choice.

They don't make a sexual choice, gay people have no more choice in who they find physically attractive than heterosexual people do. Why should they be of benefit any more than heterosexuals are? The question makes no sense really.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:05 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
Please tell me what rights are denied homosexuals.

It depends which part of the world you live in of course, but any rights that heterosexuals have gay people should have, if they don't then that is discrimination.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:08 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
The biggest problem in the world for homosexuals is not through Christianity, but from those who would stone them to death etc; and I can see no way whatsoever of changing their minds.

It certainly has been, as Christianity and Christians have persecuted gay people since Christianity was created. I don't know whether other religions that as prejudiced as Christianity is and has been can be made to change, but a lot of Christians have become more enlightened and abandoned their religions ancient bigoted dogma, people who look upon gay men and women as you do are than fully a shrinking minority in western culture and society.

by polyglide Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:48 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Firstly lets put the dictionary definitions of homosexual in my dictionary, nonconformist, homosexuality, abnormality along with pervert, a person who practises sexual perversions.

No amount of scientific findings will change the facts.

Your problem, unlike mine, is you obviously think there is a stigma attached.

As for homosexuality and their rights.

We have a several times discredited politician who was also suspected of unfair trading etc; a big pal of Blair who I am told shared a room whilst at college etc;

He is well known as being homosexual, the result, he was made a Lord.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:17 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
Firstly lets put the dictionary definitions of homosexual in my dictionary, nonconformist, homosexuality, abnormality along with pervert, a person who practises sexual perversions.

That's not a dictionary definition, it's a bare faced lie. Care to name the dictionary and link it? I'm guessing not. In the meantime I'll link and quote the Oxford English Dictionary:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/homosexual
adjective
Sexually attracted to people of one’s own sex.

noun
A person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

It seems your bigoted lie is (still)not supported by the Oxford English Dictionary any more than the last time you used it.

Polyglide wrote:No amount of scientific findings will change the facts.

Scientific findings are what produce facts, not bigoted homophobic texts from bronze age superstitions.

Polyglide wrote:Your problem, unlike mine, is you obviously think there is a stigma attached.

Don't be a prat, it's you who has stigmatised gay people with your bigoted homophobic claims that they are abnormal, unnatural, perverted, deviants. That's hardly a compliment is it. As is proved by the fact that it's a claim you are only prepared to make with the protection of anonymity on this site, rather unsurprisingly, but hide from the gay people you are pretending to be friends with. I think we both know what their reaction would be if you had the integrity to tell them exactly how you feel to their face. Care to honestly tell them how you really feel and see how they react? What are you afraid of?

Polyglide wrote:As for homosexuality and their rights.

No one has mentioned homosexual rights, only rights, which should be universal.

Polyglide wrote:We have a several times discredited politician who was also suspected of unfair trading etc; a big pal of Blair who I am told shared a room whilst at college etc; He is well known as being homosexual, the result, he was made a Lord.

Apart from your obvious bigotry and prejudice against gay people I fail to see your point here? Heterosexual people break the law and are dishonest, do you think this says something about all heterosexual people? Why you bother trying to claim your religion doesn't make you bigoted and prejudiced against gay people I don't know, but that sentence clearly shows you are. What's sad is you really don't appear to even be aware of it. It's no less repellent for that though. What a wonderful advert for religion....

by Greatest I am Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:58 pm

Poly

Are you in the right wing?

Regards
DL

by boatlady Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:28 pm

PG - your post above is dangerously close to what I would regard as inappropriate.
The terms 'pervert' and 'abnormal' are negative in the extreme and anyone attracted to her/his own sex would find their use in this context offensive.
Your reference to a several times discredited politician in my opinion borders on the defamatory.

Be very careful, my friend. If you can't discuss the topic without resorting to this type of language, I suggest you need to leave it alone

by polyglide Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:49 am

boatlady,
You cannot discuss any matter and leave out the most important elliments.

I have previously said all that I had to say regarding this matter but our friend Dr, Sheldon keeps bringing it up.

You cannot defame anyone by telling the truth.

You cannot change the meaning of a word to satify the wishes of those involved, if the word is there and the meaning given then the usual thing is to accept it.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:42 pm

polyglide wrote:boatlady, You cannot discuss any matter and leave out the most important elliments.

Elements not elliments (sic), and you have repeatedly lied about the dictionary definition of homosexual, so you're being very dishonest here again.

Polyglide wrote:I have previously said all that I had to say regarding this matter but our friend Dr, Sheldon keeps bringing it up.

IT'S THE THREAD TOPIC FFS!!!! Rolling Eyes

>I did not start this thread.
>You posted your homophobic bigotry before I started posting in this thread.
>This is a public forum &...
>I will always challenge bigotry and prejudice, get over it.
>No one is forcing you to post in this thread.
>GIA posted on July 1st and I responded to his post, you interjected a few days later despite no one addressing you directly.

Polyglide wrote:You cannot defame anyone by telling the truth.

If it's true then perhaps you could explain who you were referring to and what exactly you're accusing them of? As otherwise your claim appears to be an attempt to defame someone without the courage to risk your claims being properly scrutinised, that's cowardly.

Beyond that your claims, as cowardly as they were, were also bigoted and homophobic, as despite your protestations you were drawing a nefarious inference from what you claimed a gay person had done and making an analogous inference about gay people in general. As I said it's sad you can't see how bigoted and prejudiced that is.

Polyglide wrote:You cannot change the meaning of a word to satify the wishes of those involved, if the word is there and the meaning given then the usual thing is to accept it.

Only you have done this, and your lie is self evident as you have not even once taken the opportunity to evidence your appallingly homophobic claim by quoting and linking a dictionary to show that it defines homsexuality as a perversion.

One last time, the Oxford English Dictionary defines homosexual as:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/homosexual
adjective
Sexually attracted to people of one’s own sex.

noun
A person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

Note the link as well, now care to to quote a dictionary that supports your appalling claim? With a link of course. Each time you're asked and don't do this your lie is evidenced, not that it need be as everyone knows your claim is a lie. As Boatlady suggests, and I strongly concur, you should stop posting in this thread, as your religious homophobia won't allow you to discuss this topic rationally, or without resorting to the most appalling homophobic bigotry.

by polyglide Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:22 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I have not the dictionary with me that includes what you want but can assure you, and expect an apology, when I get the details from home but the one concerned was manufactured in America.

Collin's dictionary, pervert, person who practices sexual perversion.

I am not accusing anyone of anything, I am stating facts, I think you are continually asking for facts, well they are some for you to consider, regarding how we treat homosexuals, the fact that the person concerned is homosexual did not hamper in any way his life.

by polyglide Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:51 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I have been home and the reference regarding, homosexuality, non conformist and homosexuality, abnoramlity is in the Rogers Thesaurus paage 896, this book has a reputation second to none regarding the meaning and explanation of words.

by polyglide Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:12 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Just as a matter of comparison I looked up what the many Muslims think about the interpritation of homosexuallity.

It needs to be established according to Islamic Law homosexuality is indeed a sin.

At no time are we as a Muslim community to allow people to assume that Muslims legitimise homosexuality as something, normal, natural or a valid lifestyle choice/sexual preference.

by Greatest I am Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:30 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
Just as a matter of comparison I looked up what the many Muslims think about the interpritation of homosexuallity.

It needs to be established according to Islamic Law homosexuality is indeed a sin.

At no time are we as a Muslim community to allow people to assume that Muslims legitimise homosexuality as something, normal, natural or a valid lifestyle choice/sexual preference.

Poly

You like to define things so please help me with these two simple questions.

Do all sins have a victim?

If there is no victim, can it be said that a sin was committed?

Regards
DL

If you're answering the most recent post on a thread, please don't copy/paste it, it isn't necessary. Thank you.
Ivan

by polyglide Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:53 pm

Greatest I am,
I can understand your train of thought, however, it realy does not matter wether anyone actually suffers from a sin for it to be a sin.

There are numerous instances of sin where there are no direct victims involved, it depends entirely on how you view sin.

It can be mental, physical or by disobedience etc;

by Greatest I am Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:09 pm

polyglide wrote:Greatest I am,
I can understand your train of thought, however, it realy does not matter wether anyone actually suffers from a sin for it to be a sin.

There are numerous instances of sin where there are no direct victims involved, it depends entirely on how you view sin.

It can be mental, physical or by disobedience etc;

You may be thinking of one making a victim of himself and I don't know if that really applies.

Could you list a couple of the numerous instances of sin where there are no direct victims involved so that I might know what you are talking about, please.

Regards
DL

If you're answering the most recent post on a thread, please don't copy/paste it, it isn't necessary. Thank you.
Ivan

by polyglide Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:39 pm

Greatest I am,
To think you could murder someone, without the person being aware, to defame God, to talk about someone in a defamitory way without them being aware, talking ill of God, above all disobeying God,s instructions.

I am sure you can on the above come to many more instances that do not involve a third party.

regards.

by polyglide Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:59 pm

Greatest I am,
You got me thinking about sin and so I looked at the relevant site on the computer and the list is endless many of which involve no third party.

But I do appreciate it when I have to look at something in different manner.

regards.

by Greatest I am Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:10 pm

polyglide wrote:Greatest I am,
To think you could murder someone, without the person being aware, to defame God, to talk about someone in a defamitory way without them being aware, talking ill of God, above all disobeying God,s instructions.

I am sure you can on the above come to many more instances that do not involve a third party.

regards.

Every instance you show has a third party.

Murder has a victim. A defamed party is a victim.

Could you list a couple of the numerous instances of sin where there are no direct victims involved so that I might know what you are talking about, please.

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:18 pm

polyglide wrote:Greatest I am,
You got me thinking about sin and so I looked at the relevant site on the computer and the list is endless many of which involve no third party.

But I do appreciate it when I have to look at something in different manner.

regards.

Then if you have already found a bunch, you should be able to fill my request above.

Regards
DL

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