You do not need to be religious to possess a moral framework

by AwfulTruth Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:03 am

First topic message reminder :

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

by Tosh Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:17 pm

I have a certainty that God exists,

You are also certain evolution has not been provem, this speaks volumes about your thinking abilities, just accept it, you are a complete dunce who will believe anything.

by snowyflake Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:18 pm

Polyglide, if I'm not mistaken possesses a human mind as well so how is it that you can comprehend God with your human mind but Shirina cannot? What arrogance is this?

I'm certain that you believe in God. There is no doubt about that. What you don't have is any evidence for his existence. And until God can make his existence known to man then most atheists and other reasonable people will refuse to believe that he exists. An all powerful creator God who wants every human being to worship him without question ought not to play silly games with mankind. As far as I'm concerned, God and Jesus are no more real than any other character in a fictional novel.

by True Blue Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:58 am

snowyflake wrote:As far as I'm concerned, God and Jesus are no more real than any other character in a fictional novel.

But like good fictional novels and mythologies ought, they teach us about life and humanity. Cool

by snowyflake Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:23 am

But like good fictional novels and mythologies ought, they teach us about life and humanity. Cool

Unfortunately, the bible isn't one of them.

by Guest Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:23 pm

snowyflake wrote:
But like good fictional novels and mythologies ought, they teach us about life and humanity. Cool
Unfortunately, the bible isn't one of them.

Snowy,

With which of these teachings of Jesus from the Greek Bible do you disagree?

Greek Bible

Matthew 5:

When Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on the mountain; and after he sat down, his disciples came to him. He opened his mouth and began to teach them, saying,

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.”

“Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.”

“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.’

“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.”

“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”

“Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

“Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.”

“Think not that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say unto you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is fulfilled. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

“You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court, and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.”

“Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.”

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’, but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

“If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you, for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you, for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.”

“It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’, but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”

“Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the lord.’ But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil.”

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.”

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven, for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Matthew 6:

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.”

“So when yougive to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.”

“When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.”

“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.”

“Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
‘Give us this day our daily bread.
‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’”

“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.”

“Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.”

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal, for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

“The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!”

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”

“For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink, nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.”

“So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”

Matthew 7:

“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged, and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite: first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

“Ask, and it shall be given unto you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and the door shall be opened unto you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him?”

“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.”

“Enter through the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.’”

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house, and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”

When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, for he was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.

by Shirina Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:48 am

“For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink, nor for your body, as to what you will put on.

Well, I won't answer for Snowy, but this sure seems like bad advice.

If I don't have to worry about what I eat, can I just stuff my face with Cheetos and Big Macs without facing any health consequences? I kinda do worry about my body. I'm not in a rush to meet Jesus at the Pearly Gates, if you know what I mean.

by Guest Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:15 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
“For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink, nor for your body, as to what you will put on.

Shirina wrote:

Well, I won't answer for Snowy, but this sure seems like bad advice.

If I don't have to worry about what I eat, can I just stuff my face with Cheetos and Big Macs without facing any health consequences? I kinda do worry about my body. I'm not in a rush to meet Jesus at the Pearly Gates, if you know what I mean.

You sound like the Cajun (Kay-ZJOWN) that wouldn’t step forward when that other Cajun preaching from the back of the “picking-up truck”, said, “Everybody that want to go to heaven, step over this line, and raht now!” If I can find the recording on YouTube, I’ll post the link if I can find it.

Anyway, no worries, mate, wrong worry. Those folks didn’t have overeating problems when there wasn’t enough food to overeat. And thirty-nine out of forty ain’t half bad,

by polyglide Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:32 pm

It is a total waste of time trying to make an idiot understand anything and a better example than Tosh would be hard to find, he is a self conffessed TROLL and a bad one at that.

If anyone needs proof of the existance of God then just look at the state of the world today.

Peace, peace sudden destruction.

The Devil has nearly had his day and is making a last bid to turn everyone against God.

Nearly every nation is now opposed to Israel, just as predicted, this is not scare mongering but a fact.

There is neither rhyme nor reason for all the weather and natural disasters that are taking place all at the same time in human terms but were also predicted.

As I have said previously, I am only realy concerned about the time Jesus came to earth but prior to that the bible predicted many occurances that we could not foresee but have come about.

At any one time God gave enough evidence to those who believed to have the faith needed to accept his existance, it is the inability of man to understand and not God's fault that they are mislead by the Devil.

by snowyflake Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:21 pm

Nearly every nation is now opposed to Israel, just as predicted, this is not scare mongering but a fact.

America, Canada, UK and most of Europe, Australia, Russia, China, Japan are not opposed to Israel. Central and South America has never made it known that they oppose the existence of Israel. Indonesia, India, the Phillipines don't have anything against Israel. I think that covers most of the biggies in the world. Where do you get your info from?

by Tosh Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:31 pm

If anyone needs proof of the existance of God then just look at the state of the world today.

I do not believe anyone whose brain is functioning normally accepts this a proof of God's existence, maybe Walter, he needs the reassurance, poor wee soul.

by snowyflake Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:49 pm

If anyone needs proof of the existance of God then just look at the state of the world today.

If there is a God then he is an incompetent boob. Of course, he's a man because a woman just wouldn't make such a right mess of the place. If the state of the world is proof of God's existence, I think we would do better without him, don't you?

by polyglide Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:41 am

The two most important nations regarding Israel that have any real significance are America and Germany and they have both along with Britain said they are getting fed up.

The nations you mention will make no difference but will soon join the others in condemnation. just get the latest news and not the ancient.

by polyglide Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:44 am

I cannot understand why anyone so lacking, can mention a brain, if Tosh has one he should learn how it should be used, oh I forgot, evolution must have ommited his.

by snowyflake Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:22 pm

I cannot understand why anyone so lacking, can mention a brain, if Tosh has one he should learn how it should be used, oh I forgot, evolution must have ommited his.

My 7 year old granddaughter has more wit than this.....

by polyglide Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:40 am

you have to be able to recognise wit before making any judgement.

by snowyflake Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:15 pm

Definition of wit:

1. The natural ability to perceive and understand; intelligence.
2.
a. Keenness and quickness of perception or discernment; ingenuity. Often used in the plural: living by one's wits.
b. wits Sound mental faculties; sanity: scared out of my wits.
3.
a. The ability to perceive and express in an ingeniously humorous manner the relationship between seemingly incongruous or disparate things.
b. One noted for this ability, especially one skilled in repartee.
c. A person of exceptional intelligence.

You don't recognise wit, poly. Smile

by polyglide Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:45 pm

I do recognise those who do not appreciate wit and because they are unable to match it make silly statements based on the dictionary definitions

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:02 pm

snowyflake wrote:
If anyone needs proof of the existance of God then just look at the state of the world today.
If there is a God then he is an incompetent boob. Of course, he's a man because a woman just wouldn't make such a right mess of the place. If the state of the world is proof of God's existence, I think we would do better without him, don't you?

Mind you the garbled confused and ambiguous message........

nah, never mind. silent

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:20 pm

polyglide wrote:It is a total waste of time trying to make an idiot understand anything and a better example than Tosh would be hard to find, he is a self conffessed TROLL and a bad one at that.

If anyone needs proof of the existance of God then just look at the state of the world today.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:You're going to have to explain what specifically about the world we live in makes you think it's "proof" for the existence of god, as I don't see anything amounting to evidence, let alone proof.
Peace, peace sudden destruction.

The Devil has nearly had his day and is making a last bid to turn everyone against God.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Ah, any empirical evidence for this, or are you using the force, again?
Nearly every nation is now opposed to Israel, just as predicted, this is not scare mongering but a fact.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:No they're not, that's simply not true. Israel has the most powerful allies on the planet, and their sovereignty will be protected by those allies, they may start to ask for a little more cooperation from Israel in terms of Palestinian human rights, and stolen Palestinian land that Israel has settlers on, but they'll equally want guarantees from the Palestinians to recognise and respect the sovereign state of Israel. To suggest that Israel's allies are opposed to her is risible nonsense.
There is neither rhyme nor reason for all the weather and natural disasters that are taking place all at the same time in human terms but were also predicted.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Another risible falsehood. There is a great deal of scientific research and evidence for weather patterns, and the effect human activity has on them, you're making grandiose claims with no evidence and making yourself appear a clown into the bargain. Natural "disasters" are not a mystery to science at all, what on earth are you talking about?
As I have said previously, I am only realy concerned about the time Jesus came to earth but prior to that the bible predicted many occurances that we could not foresee but have come about.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:List half a dozen for us....
At any one time God gave enough evidence to those who believed to have the faith needed to accept his existance, it is the inability of man to understand and not God's fault that they are mislead by the Devil.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Why would people with faith require evidence? That's an oxymoron, evidence is the antithesis of faith. Since your god is claimed to have both limitless knowledge and power its absurdly stupid to suggest the fault for a miscommunicated message of his lies elsewhere, it's frankly astonishing that anyone is not intelligent enough to see how illogical a claim this is.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:23 pm

polyglide wrote:The two most important nations regarding Israel that have any real significance are America and Germany and they have both along with Britain said they are getting fed up.

The nations you mention will make no difference but will soon join the others in condemnation. just get the latest news and not the ancient.

You're living in a fantasy world, entirely devolved from reality.

by stuart torr Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:39 pm

Cannot fault you there Sheldon, have you read trevor's posts? he had a great sense of humour, wonder what happened to him?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:09 pm

polyglide wrote:As I have said previously, I am only realy concerned about the time Jesus came to earth but prior to that the bible predicted many occurances that we could not foresee but have come about.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
List half a dozen for us....

Yo, Poly, where are these predictions?

I guess any one of us could've predicted you not answering that request.

by stuart torr Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:35 pm

Oh my Sheldon polyglide knows when jesus came to earth, and the bible was written before that. when did all this happen dates please polyglide.

by Heretic Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:57 am

polyglide wrote:It is a total waste of time trying to make an idiot understand anything and a better example than Tosh would be hard to find, he is a self conffessed TROLL and a bad one at that.

What did Jesus say about those that called others fools?

Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

polyglide wrote:If anyone needs proof of the existance of God then just look at the state of the world today. - Peace, peace sudden destruction.

How much of this conflict is religion based?

polyglide wrote:The Devil has nearly had his day and is making a last bid to turn everyone against God.

Really? Is that how anyone interprets the evils of today. Religious zealots and greedy bankers with their friends in governments are the evils of today. You might add to that the conspiracy (at least what feels like one) to steal from the poor to give to the rich.

polyglide wrote:Nearly every nation is now opposed to Israel, just as predicted, this is not scare mongering but a fact.

Israel has alienated nearly every nation through their treatment of the Palestinians and their land grab on the west bank. Only possible because of the relative weakness of Jordan to the east.

polyglide wrote:There is neither rhyme nor reason for all the weather and natural disasters that are taking place all at the same time in human terms but were also predicted.

There is no rhyme or reason to the weather (global warming excepted) at any time, we in the UK know this better than most with the unpredictability of our weather. As for natural disasters the keyword is in the name "natural" disasters are natural, they are part of the price we pay for living on this planet.

polyglide wrote:As I have said previously, I am only realy concerned about the time Jesus came to earth but prior to that the bible predicted many occurances that we could not foresee but have come about.

Unpredictability is part of life, if we could predict these things then we would be stupid not to avoid them. Why people do stupid things astounds me, why on earth do people build their homes on the side of volcanoes? Not only in the far east where the richness of volcanic soil is half a reason at least but here in Europe too. As for the bible predicting the unpredictable that might be impressive if it gave a date but to just say there will be famines some time in the future, to say there will be disease at some point in the future, to say there will be volcanic explosion at some time in the future is just so underwhelming that it is hardly worth the effort of responding to.

polyglide wrote:At any one time God gave enough evidence to those who believed to have the faith needed to accept his existance, it is the inability of man to understand and not God's fault that they are mislead by the Devil.

Lets look at that "God gave evidence to those that believed, to have the faith needed to accept his existance" He gave evidence to those that had faith , the very group that presumably didn't need it, "it is the inability of man to understand and not God's fault that they are mislead by the Devil." Man understands plenty and as far as being misled is concerned it is religion that seems to me to be the biggest deceiver on this planet. The biggest deceiver by a long shot.

Heretic

by stuart torr Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:37 pm

No disagreement from this poster Heretic. thumbsup

by stuart torr Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:29 pm

Well polyfilla no more religious shit following Heretics post? sarcasm

by snowyflake Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:13 pm

Trevor is a nice fellow and hopefully he will come back, stu.

by stuart torr Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:36 pm

Know what happened to him snowy?

by snowyflake Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:41 pm

I think someone was not very kind to him, stu. Ivan might persuade him to come back.

by stuart torr Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:38 pm

Already tried snowy I think and he said no. thumbsdown

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:13 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
polyglide wrote:As I have said previously, I am only realy concerned about the time Jesus came to earth but prior to that the bible predicted many occurances that we could not foresee but have come about.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
List half a dozen for us....

Yo, Poly, where are these predictions?

I guess any one of us could've predicted you not answering that request.

How're those predictions coming Polly?

by Dan Fante Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:03 am

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
polyglide wrote:As I have said previously, I am only realy concerned about the time Jesus came to earth but prior to that the bible predicted many occurances that we could not foresee but have come about.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
List half a dozen for us....

Yo, Poly, where are these predictions?

I guess any one of us could've predicted you not answering that request.
How're those predictions coming Polly?

He was being witty when he made that post Wink

by **Ivan** Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:04 am

There appears to be a technical glitch on the original version of this thread. If we can resolve the problem, any comments posted on this thread will be merged with the original one. In the meantime, please continue discussing the topic here.

I have managed to retrieve the latest exchanges:-

polyglide wrote:
As I have said previously, I am only realy concerned about the time Jesus came to earth but prior to that the bible predicted many occurances that we could not foresee but have come about.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
List half a dozen for us....

Yo, Poly, where are these predictions?

I guess any one of us could've predicted you not answering that request.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
How're those predictions coming Polly?

Dan Fante wrote:-
He was being witty when he made that post

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:28 am

http://theweek.com/article/index/221196/to-train-up-a-child-the-book-thats-leading-parents-to-kill

This book, To Train Up a Child, is a glaring example of what can go wrong when people think their moral behaviour is sanctioned by a deity. It's of no use to point out that they're misinterpreting scripture either, as scripture is suitably vague, ambiguous, and even contradictory that adherents always seem able to point to something in an attempt to justify their actions. Indeed that is the problem, and of course any sane objective person can see how absurd an idea it is that an omniscient, omnipotent being with limitless benevolence would pedal such a message anyway, which could only be exactly as their god intended if Christian beliefs were true and their god possessed those characteristics.

by Heretic Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:08 pm

What is the nature of Prophesy?

I recall many religious claiming part of the justification for their faith is the fulfillment of phrophesy.

Religious prophesy seems to be telling everybody that something is going to happen somewhere at a non specific time. This is then placed in the holy books or what later becomes the holy books. Frequently these prophesies are not recognised as such until after they have been apparently fulfilled. I am the only one that thinks all of this is just a house of cards waiting to be blown down?

If I made a prophesy and didn't tell you when it would occur or where or how then how pleased would you be? I can guess. If I told you that a horse was going to win a race, let's call that horse "My Prophesy". I am going to tell you that this horse or a horse with the same name was going to win a race, but I was not going to tell you when or where because "your faith needed to be tested". How happy are you? If some years later "My Prophesy II" the son of "My Prophesy" wins a race then is that evidence that my 'prophesy' was valid or supernatural in any way. If I hid that prophesy in general conversation instead of getting up on a soapbox then it has even less relevance.

This is exactly the case with religious prophesy. Claims are made about something or other in the future but in such a way that it is not recognised as prophesy and it is then hidden, sometimes in obscure religious poetry. Sometimes religious prose are written in such an obscure manner that it is possible to read into it anything that you want to. Add to this a hunger to see evidence that the world is about to change and you have a tinderbox waiting to explode.

It's funny how many times that something is not seen as prophesy until it has been fulfilled. I hesitate to say that people are reading into these prophesies what they want to see or at least what it is expediant for them to see.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that sees two different peoples in the Middle East who see circumstances in the current day that are the fulfilment of prophesy. These two peoples are then provided with very dangerous weapons by a third people or culture who see yet another set of prophesies being fulfilled.

Everyone is seeing what they want to see and what they want to see is all about wishful thinking and changing their own circumstances. Sometimes, I feel, that those in power stir up trouble to distract their populations from their political difficulties.

Prophesies seem to be dangerous ground for mankind.

Heretic

by snowyflake Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:55 pm

Prophecies are funny business. They only seem to appear after the event and then everyone cries, "Yo look, we knew this was going to happen because it is written that's why!" And they refer to some obscure prose written by Nostradamus who was high on crack and hallucinating to beat Methuselah connecting said blabbering to Hitler.

Christians did the same. Went back to the OT and made some connection between Jesus and David and crying Voila he is the Messiah.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy. Smile

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:27 pm

snowyflake wrote:Prophecies are funny business. They only seem to appear after the event and then everyone cries, "Yo look, we knew this was going to happen because it is written that's why!" And they refer to some obscure prose written by Nostradamus who was high on crack and hallucinating to beat Methuselah connecting said blabbering to Hitler.

Christians did the same. Went back to the OT and made some connection between Jesus and David and crying Voila he is the Messiah.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy.

The rather sticky business of having no contemporaneous evidence he existed of course is also, or should also, be an embarrassment to their claims of prophesy fulfilment.

by **moonbeam** Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:36 pm

I've fixed the original thread, so please resume posting in that one. Ivan will merge these posts into it at some point. I'm not going to attempt it on my phone. Smile

by snowyflake Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:47 pm

Thanks moonbeam Smile

by Shirina Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:59 pm

I made a prophesy just the other day that this thread would experience a glitch - and a messiah, moonbeam, would arise to fix it.

And it came true -- just like I said it would.

So there.

by snowyflake Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:06 pm

All hail to moonbeam the saviour of the thread!!

(is she a virgin and can we sacrifice her now in the name of our new saviour?.....i'm rolling a couple religious concepts together here in a cost-saving and efficiency improving measure)

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