Evidence for the existence of God (Part 1)

by keenobserver1 Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

If there is a God, he definetly isn't English.

by Shirina Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:51 pm

Those options paraphrased are your creation alone, based on a rather derogatory interpretation of what polyglide actually said.

You're simply dead-bang wrong on this issue. In your quotes, you failed to also quote what Polyglide actually said.

Evolution is the answer used by those with little or no concept of reality and who would believe in anything other than a being greater than themselves.

Those who believe in creation look at the actual facts, they consider the probability that a butterfly would evolve in a manner that it has to go through to become a butterfly.

Yes, I paraphrased to avoid quote spamming, but there you have it. The above quotes are the two choices Polyglide offered. Either you have no concept of reality or you believe in Creationism, blah blah. I'm sure you get the point. It fits the fallacy. This certainly isn't my creation unlike your assertion to the contrary.

by polyglide Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:37 am

At no time have I said that you can get something from nothing.

Very early on I explained that splitting the atom resulted in the release of energy, therefore the atom was formed by the use of energy.

The atom must have been put together or it could not be taken apart.

The likelihood of this happening on it's own is beyond the realms of probability, so the only other alternative is to consider who or what formed the atoms.

The evolutionists have no answer to this because the only possibility is a being beyond our comprehension regarding ability.

As for man being able to look after himself.

Put a naked man a lion and a tiger in a pen all being hungry and see who comes out best.

It is absolute nonsense to say man could do this that and the other and learn this that and the other, he would have been wiped out long before he could.

by witchfinder Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:56 am

Or could it just be the combined forces of nature and evolution - polyglide ?

Yesterday I watched our kittens attempts to catch birds from the TV screen, and yet that kitten has never been outside yet, it has never seen a bird in real life, yet it instinctively knew to try and catch birds on the telly.

Could it be that the kitten is programmed to go for birds, mice, small creatures that move, fly and scurry around - passed on from its parents and ancestors - otherwise known as instinct / nature.

If an atom had not evolved, then things would not be as they are and we would not be sat here typing away at our computors, but the atom did evolve and we are here, what proof is there that it all has something to do with a super-being or a God. ?

If you put 20 insects on the edge of a desert, and another 20 insects on the edge of a riverbank, then given time the ones near the riverbank will be able to swim, and the ones on the edge of the desert will develop the ability to go for long periods without water.

Nature always adapts to the prevailing circumstances

by polyglide Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:32 pm

Of course your cat would attempt to catch the bird, a bird would eat a worm if it had never seen one previously both having been programmed to do their own thing.

A wren will build exactly the same nest as it.s parents even if brought up by another species of bird etc; etc; proving creatoin rather than evolution.

by oftenwrong Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:08 pm

How do diseases develop immunity against antibiotics, polyglide?

by Adele Carlyon Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:36 pm

The big bearded fella in the sky sprinkles god dust on them? lol!

by Shirina Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:30 pm

Put a naked man a lion and a tiger in a pen all being hungry and see who comes out best.

You're trying to design an unfair scenario to ensure that your point is correct. There is no likely situation in nature when a naked man and a hungry lion would somehow end up locked inside a pen together. If you put a human and a lion together, claw vs. claw, with no means of escape, then yes, the human would probably lose that confrontation. But that's not a realistic scenario. It's more like a lab experiment engineered so that the human will lose. However, give the human the ability to use his intellect and the story would be quite different. Humans wearing little more than a loin cloth and equipped with sharpened sticks and a simple net have brought down lions quite consistently.

by oftenwrong Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:34 pm

How does Monsanto make so much money out of genetically-modified crops, polyglide?

by oftenwrong Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:35 pm

Where does synthetic rubber grow, polyglide?

by oftenwrong Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:43 pm

Where has all this polythene come from, polyglide? Was it you, together with polyethylene? None of the following things are mentioned in the Scriptures, polyglide. How can that be explained? Polycarbonate, polycotton, polyester, polythylene, polymer ...

by oftenwrong Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:45 pm

Brass doesn't exist in Nature, polyglide, so where did we get so much of it from, do you think?

by oftenwrong Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:48 pm

Is Baby Oil extracted from babies?

by Adele Carlyon Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:58 pm

I wanna know where the fairy cake tree's grow then I can go and pick a dozen or so!

by oftenwrong Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:19 pm

Oh the buzzin' of the bees
In the cigarette trees
Near the soda water fountain
At the lemonade springs
Where the bluebird sings
On the big rock candy mountain

Read more: http://artists.letssingit.com/burl-ives-lyrics-big-rock-candy-mountain-dx26kzx#ixzz1tYM6CNH7

by polyglide Tue May 01, 2012 2:56 pm

The human would not have time to use his interlect he would be dead.

Go back to the island scenario, all the animals etc and naked humans, how long do you think it would take man to be able to survive and use his interlect, He could not communicate, he would not know which food to eat or how to defend himself, which animals were dangerous where to live or where to go etc; etc;

You are basing your ideas on present day man's intelligence and not on the scenario I presented.

Man has to be taught from start to finish and is the only living thing that has to, that is if he is to survive.

by blueturando Tue May 01, 2012 3:04 pm

Have you found any evidence of the existance of God yet Polyglide?

by polyglide Tue May 01, 2012 4:05 pm

Yes, I most cetainly have, in every living thing I see and I appreciate every one even those who cannot tell stork from butter.

by blueturando Tue May 01, 2012 4:29 pm

Fantasic news and I am sure mankind will look forward to seeing the 'EVIDENCE' you say you have very soon.

I would happily put up £1 million to anyone who can show me any 'proof'. You could be rich Polyglide!!!

by Guest Tue May 01, 2012 4:48 pm

blueturando wrote:
Fantasic news and I am sure mankind will look forward to seeing the 'EVIDENCE' you say you have very soon.

I would happily put up £1 million to anyone who can show me any 'proof'. You could be rich Polyglide!!!

To the author of the referenced post (and anyone else who cares):

Prove the nonexistence of YHVH Elohim;
Provide me with the necessary information to carry out step #3;
I will forward to you the sum of fifty dollars ($50.00) U.S. currency.

To qualify, you must provide irrefutable proof of the nonexistence of YHVH Elohim. If you need assistance as to ascertaining the identity of YHVH Elohim, let me know, and I will assist.

by **Ivan** Tue May 01, 2012 5:08 pm

We all know that you can't prove a negative.

The idea that God may exist is an assumption based on no current knowledge, evidence or reason. Something which is non-physical and immeasurable clearly doesn't exist; nothing exists until there is some evidence or logic that proves or even suggests its existence.

by Adele Carlyon Tue May 01, 2012 5:11 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Oh the buzzin' of the bees
In the cigarette trees
Near the soda water fountain
At the lemonade springs
Where the bluebird sings
On the big rock candy mountain

Read more: http://artists.letssingit.com/burl-ives-lyrics-big-rock-candy-mountain-dx26kzx#ixzz1tYM6CNH7

I love Burl Ives!

by Adele Carlyon Tue May 01, 2012 5:14 pm

Of course god exists, I heard him making his bed a few days ago, he can't half make a noise when he shakes his sheets. Stupid people call it thunder!! Razz

by Guest Tue May 01, 2012 5:16 pm

Ivan,

You have conceded that you cannot prove the nonexistence of YHVH Elohim; thus, you concede that any statement that YHVH Elohim does not exist is a statement of belief rather than fact.

The offer remains open.

by Guest Tue May 01, 2012 5:19 pm

… god…

This is not YHVH Elohim.

by **Ivan** Tue May 01, 2012 5:25 pm

You have conceded that you cannot prove the nonexistence of YHVH Elohim

That's a silly argument, Rock. I also can't prove that fairies don't live at the bottom of my garden. The onus is on those making a claim for the existence of something to offer some proof for it - and you can't.

by Guest Tue May 01, 2012 5:39 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
You have conceded that you cannot prove the nonexistence of YHVH Elohim

Ivan wrote:
That's a silly argument,¹ Rock. I also can't prove that fairies² don't live at the bottom of my garden. The onus³ is on those making a claim for the existence of something to offer some proof for it - and you can't.⁴

It’s a sound argument. That which one asserts that one cannot prove is one’s belief.
I’ve neither asked/challenged you to prove/disprove the existence/nonexistence of fairies at the bottom of your garden, nor shall I ever do so; thus, the point is moot.
There is no onus on me to prove something which someone else asserts.
I haven’t tried.

Once again, the offer remains open. Since making the offer fifty-one minutes ago, I’ve contacted my financial institution, moved $50.00 into savings, and earmarked that sum “for the purpose.”

by polyglide Wed May 02, 2012 11:26 am

Lets not concentrate on proof but logic.

I say that God [others may have another name] created the butterfly, he started with energy and turned this into atoms from which he created matter of all forms.

From matter he created all kinds of wonderful things including the butterfly.

So we will take the butterfly as just one example.

He chose the form and created the whole animal including withing all that was necessary for it to live and procreate, everyone different in DNA and colouration etc; etc;

That is what I believe and without exeption.

Now the challenge I give to you is this.

Tell me step by step without quoting the nonsense of others just how the butterfly came about through evolution.

You can say it took a million years between each stage but explain exactly how it went from one to the other and exactly where it started.

But first look at the manner the butterfly actually reproduces.

by polyglide Wed May 02, 2012 11:38 am

It is a fact that diceases do develope immunity against anti biotics but what we should be considering is why they were necessary in the first place.

All our problems are self inflicted by one bad decision or another or the misuse and abuse of that which we should have shown more concern for.

by oftenwrong Wed May 02, 2012 5:31 pm

What we call a disease is usually another life-form that happens to find the human body an agreeable place to live and breed, usually to our detriment. Its origin would have probably been neither more, nor less, necessary than our own.

Human medicine discourages such organisms from taking up residence inside us, but through evolution, the little critters become better at resisting eviction.

by Shirina Wed May 02, 2012 6:16 pm

Go back to the island scenario, all the animals etc and naked humans, how long do you think it would take man to be able to survive and use his interlect, He could not communicate, he would not know which food to eat or how to defend himself, which animals were dangerous where to live or where to go etc; etc;

Like I said before, Polyglide, you're setting up an unrealistic scenario to ensure that your point is valid. Humans did not evolve on a small island filled with hungry man-eating predators so the point is moot.

It's like saying, "Well, Superman would lose the fight if he had a lump of kryptonite tied around his neck, hand his hands tied behind his back, was hung upside down with his back to his opponent, was blindfolded, and all of the supervillains in existence were ganging up on him."

That's what you're essentially doing with humanity to ensure that the only way humans could survive was through the grace of God. It's a disingenuous argument.

You can say it took a million years between each stage but explain exactly how it went from one to the other and exactly where it started.

You're debating in circles. I have already told you that I refuse to pit the complexity of evolution against the simplicity of religion. I'm not going to waste time posting long, complex dissertations on evolution just so you can say, "Nuh uh" and post a simple, one-line response: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." I would suggest picking up a book and reading about evolution in the words of experts, but I doubt you will do so. Understanding science is a lot of work.

by **astradt1** Wed May 02, 2012 6:34 pm

I wonder what happened to the 'uniqueness' of the eye ball as the clinching argument for creationism.........And thereby supporting the argument that 'god' exsist...

Oh yes that was debunked by Wiki........

by Shirina Wed May 02, 2012 6:34 pm

Prove the nonexistence of YHVH Elohim;

Prove the non-existence of Zeus, Cthulhu, Ganesh, Kali, Enki, and Quetzalcoatl. All are equally as valid as YHVH. Some of these gods are still worshiped today in different lands with different cultures. I really don't feel I have to prove the nonexistence of YHVH until you can disprove the existence of every other god ever invented by Man. Show me why YHVH is the "only one true God" despite billions of people around the world believing with equal certainty that some other God is the "one true God." Show me how living in the most Christian state within the most Christian nation in the world played no part in what you believe - especially since I know first hand that your culture and your environment are often the final arbiters which determine what you believe in, not any inherent truth within those beliefs. If you had been born in Mali, you would probably be worshiping fishmen from Sirius.

by Shirina Wed May 02, 2012 6:38 pm

All our problems are self inflicted by one bad decision or another or the misuse and abuse of that which we should have shown more concern for.

So you're saying, essentially, that natural viruses and bacteria are a result of Man's bad decisions? Isn't that essentially saying that disease exists because of sin?

And isn't that just one step away from claiming disasters like Katrina and the Christmas Tsunami are the result of God's punishment for sin?

Next thing you know, you're going to be in front of a microphone waving a Bible, talking with a Southern accent, and asking people to send you money.

by oftenwrong Wed May 02, 2012 7:36 pm

Next thing you know, you're going to be in front of a microphone waving a Bible, talking with a Southern accent, and asking people to send you money .... while torching a Koran.

by Guest Thu May 03, 2012 2:15 am

Shirina wrote:
And isn't that just one step away from claiming disasters like Katrina… are the result of God's punishment for sin?

Ever taken a stroll down Bourbon Street? Gotta wonder.

by Shirina Thu May 03, 2012 4:13 am

Ever taken a stroll down Bourbon Street? Gotta wonder.

LOL! Nope, never been to New Orleans though I knew a guy in the Navy from there. He was Cajun through and through and the way he talked could put me to sleep ... not in a bad way, but in a relaxing way because of how sloooooowwwwly he spoke.

by Guest Thu May 03, 2012 5:48 am

Sothern Louisiana in general is very interesting.

I did in fact take several strolls down Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras, on the Saturday and Sunday before Fat Tuesday. You name it, they were hawking it; female dancers, male dancers, female on male dancers, female on female dances, male on male dancers, and a few other choices. You can walk or drive (I think) down Bourbon Street, and any street in New Orleans, with an open container of beer, as long as the open container is a paper or plastic cup. On the weekend before Fat Tuesday, there’s a whole lotta cups on Bourbon Street!

Cajun (“Kay-zjown, Kay-zjhon, depend on what kinda Cajun you are, yea), Creole (White and Black), or as a fellow in rural SE Texas just across the state line told me, “Franch”, kinda share the same culture. You don’t have a good time, you “pass a good time, yea.” You don’t shop for groceries, you “make grocery, yea”, singular. And you certainly don’t drink a full cup of coffee! “Jes halfuh cup.” Half a cup’ll do, because it’s coffee and chicory, strong enough to strip paint off a battleship.

In New Orleans on a non Mardi Gras trip, our “Black” Creole hostess said, “First we go for café (kah-FAY) and beignet (ben-YAY) on the banquette (ban-KET), then we go for disco.” That means “First we’re going to get sweet coffee (half heated milk) and donuts on the sidewalk, then we’re going to a disco.”

In college, a Southern Louisiana friend (Black Creole) let me know in no uncertain terms that his home town was Baton Rouge, pronounced “BAH-towhn Roozjhe.” He was about 6’3”, 235, so I paid attention.

Another Southern Louisiana college friend, all the way rural Cajun from the bayou, was a Tae Kwon Do student. We were working on kicks using the body bag. He let go with a perfect kick that had the bag swinging from ceiling to ceiling, at as close to ninety degrees as possible. He hit it again in full swing and knocked it off its ceiling connection. Same Cajun told us “brothers” (he hung out with Black dudes) that he used to go out on the property and bring in the hogs, two at a time, one under each arm. Country strong.

by Guest Thu May 03, 2012 6:33 am

Shirina wrote:

Prove the nonexistence of YHVH Elohim;
Prove the non-existence of Zeus, Cthulhu, Ganesh, Kali, Enki, and Quetzalcoatl.

I seldom think about Zeus, and the other names I don’t know. If you want to believe they exist, it’s okay with me.

Diametrically opposed to my dispassion (a-pathos, apathy) toward the names you’ve mentioned, I’ve much concern and passion for YHBH Elohim, the previously identified Author, Creator, Owner, and Sovereign of all existence. My offer stands, which is also okay by me, cause interest gotta go on.

Oh, snap! Interest on savings is about 0.5% per annum. That’s a quarter a year. If I keep it in five years, I’ll have enough for a Super Big Gulp Diet Dew down at “Hit It & Quit It.” Wish there was a WaWa around here!

Shirina wrote:
I really don't feel I have to prove the nonexistence of YHVH until you can disprove the existence of every other god ever invented by Man.

You do if you want the $50.00.

On the serious tip, what I believe and know has come about through personal search. Once upon a time I was a lot of things, including agnostic, which was one of two things that caused Charlene to avoid me in high school (“Atheist!”). She was Roman Catholic and cute, so I must have been serious.

One commitment to myself is to do it as Adonai Eluheinu desires. He didn’t send the heavenly host in chariots of fire that filled the mountains to force ha adama to return to YHVH Elohim. He sent a carpenter’s son from Galilee, who gathered up some fishermen, a hated tax collector, a few other no-remarkable folks, and finally a student of Gamiel to “teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” No coercion, just teaching, seven times seventy times if necessary (by extrapolation), a phrase that basically means until you can no longer draw sufficient breath to teach.

I can draw breath; in fact, I just walked a mile or two, so whenever you wish to explore Jesus’ teachings and desire my help, here I am.

by oftenwrong Thu May 03, 2012 11:25 am

"Teaching" may also be referred to as "Brainwashing", depending upon who is speaking.

by polyglide Thu May 03, 2012 12:40 pm

The only reason you ARE NOT GOING TO WASTE YOUR TIME, IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ANSWER AND NOR DOES ANYONE ELSE.

by trevorw2539 Thu May 03, 2012 1:19 pm

polyglide wrote:The only reason you ARE NOT GOING TO WASTE YOUR TIME, IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ANSWER AND NOR DOES ANYONE ELSE.

Polyglide. The real truth is that science has most of the answers. We have our respective faiths.

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