Evidence for the existence of God (Part 1)

by keenobserver1 Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

If there is a God, he definetly isn't English.

by Tosh Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:32 pm

One of the Forumotion terms of service that you agreed to when you joined this forum is:-
“Please post your messages only once. Repetitions are unpleasant and useless.”
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t18-posting-rules

Ivan, you have made me burst out laughing, can you please show this to RoB, I wish I had . Very Happy

Perhaps you could bear that in mind before posting any more tiresome repetitions of your ‘sage’ quip. You don’t want to be classified as a bore, do you?

I will ease up on oftenwrong, he is a sensitive soul, I can feel it.

[quote]

If you bothered to take a look at the rest of the forum occasionally, you might notice that we have a section for bloggers, where you can see Phil Hornby’s excellent satire, saving you the need to ask unnecessary questions.

[/quot

Sufferin Succotash, I am being stalked by a sensitive sage and a saintly satirist, sorry...only kidding.

I will pop in and give him my thoughts.

by oftenwrong Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:27 pm

"I will pop in and give him my thoughts."

Such generosity will not go unremarked, I anticipate.

by Guest Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:18 am

astradt1 wrote:
… Jesus, speaking to his disciples, says 'my wife'…

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2205235/Proof-Jesus-married-ancient-papyrus-mentions-son-God-spoke-wife-Mary-Magdalene.html#ixzz26rIqzDPr

Wife of Jesus - The Colbert Report
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/419256/september-19-2012/wife-of-jesus

by polyglide Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:44 am

Tosh, it is impossible to understand human nature, full stop.

Just read any newspaper or watch any news item and the majority will involve anything from a kind action to the most deplorable of actions, not a day goes by without murder, rape, theft and any number of other anti social activities being reported.

If you have an explanation please do let us know and we could possibly illiminate them. [that is the bad ones]

regards.

by Tosh Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:37 pm

Tosh, it is impossible to understand human nature, full stop.

polyglide dearest, it seems the only thing you do not find impossible to understand is God, and he is incomprehensible, which is a minor miracle in itself

by Tosh Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:33 pm

If you have an explanation please do let us know and we could possibly illiminate them.

Eliminate or illuminate...?

Doo hit mater hat al iif u spell fings rong has lonng has u understand.
wat his ment..

Never throw stones in glass houses. Shocked

by sickchip Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:37 pm

The evidence is all around you - at home, work, on every street, etc.

God is everywhere. And is the driving force in most people's lives. It is perfectly evident that God is Money is God. The proof is everywhere.

by Tosh Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:46 pm

It is perfectly evident that God is Money is God.

Do I assume you are by all accounts Godless ?

by sickchip Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:47 pm

Tosh wrote:
It is perfectly evident that God is Money is God.

Do I assume you are by all accounts Godless ?

Certainly not, tosh. God walks with me at all times.

by sickchip Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:53 pm

It's interesting how things such as football stadiums are now named after successful capitilist businesses rather than places/famous persons......and millions flock to them each weekend - almost like a church.

by oftenwrong Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:39 am

" millions flock to them each weekend - almost like a church. "

Also including St. Sainsbury's; St. Tesco and Our Lady of Waitrose.

by Shirina Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:41 am

Kind of like what happened to Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh. I mean, Three Rivers was a nice enough name, sitting as it did at the confluence of the Allegheny, Monongahela, and Ohio rivers. But they blew it up and built a new stadium, capitalistically named "Heinz Field" after the famous ketchup manufacturer. The baseball stadium was boringly named "PNC Park" after a major bank in Pennsylvania. No soul, no character, no color. Just boring names to glorify the financial backers ... so that every time you talk about the home of the Pittsburgh Steelers or the Pittsburgh Pirates, it's free advertising.

by Tosh Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:38 pm

3 Rivers Stadium is just as boring as Heinz Field or PNC Park, and it contributed nothing to the well being of the team, the fans or the owners.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy advertised products, and you cannot buy a product you do not know exists.

Supply and demand, the only game in town.

by methought Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:21 pm

Perhaps they should have called it God Stadium then..............

That would be a bit if free advertising. What is the topic of this thread again?

by Guest Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:24 am

Ivan wrote:
At the risk of being called arrogant, I will state that I consider myself to be an atheist. No proof has ever been supplied that God exists, and I am confident that none will ever be found…

Do you consider yourself to be an “atheist”, synonym “anti-theist”, one who chooses to be anti-God, or an “atheist” defined precisely, as in “a-theist”, one who is without God, the second half to “agnostic”, “a-gnostic”, one who is without knowledge (of God, connotatively). An intense self-examination of yourself in terms of these two dissimilar types of “atheists” might aid you in knowing exactly who you are.

“No proof has ever been supplied that God exists”, and no proof has ever been supplied that God does not exist. Only eternal, omnipresent, omniscient YHVH Elohim, God, can prove the existence or non-existence of eternal, omnipresent, omniscient YHVH Elohim, God.

Ivan wrote:
… science has fully explained how we all came to be here.

We have been provided with a rational alternative.

Science has not “fully explained” anything.

Basal example: Existent, accessible, collectable, analyzable data strongly suggests that, insofar as we can determine, existence as we know it begins at the singularity. I’ll agree to accept this extraordinarily strong suggestion if you will agree to also do so. Pray tell, how did the singularity come to be?

Additionally, as the force which exploded existence into existence was/is of such incomprehensible magnitude that (a) although the universe is it 13.7 billion years old (give or take), it is still expanding, in spite of gravity, at an ever increasing rate, and (b) although the universe is it 13.7 billion years old, its expanse has been measured at 154 billion light years across (give or take). Pray tell, how did this incomprehensible force come to be?

Moving on, a “rational alternative” equates not to proof. Claims of proof should be accompanied by proof.

Ivan wrote:
… I’ll admit to arrogance. Will those who claim to have found ‘the truth’ in ancient religious texts which don’t stand up to historical scrutiny now do the same?

I do not “claim to have found ‘the truth’”; I know truth, so perhaps this plea is not directed to me.
A German archaeologist found the Hittites, long dismissed as myth, by following the Hebrew Bible, so perhaps, in your search for “ancient religious texts which don’t stand up to historical scrutiny”, you should exclude the Hebrew Bible on the basis of its proven historical validity and reliability.

by Tosh Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:39 am

, you should exclude the Hebrew Bible on the basis of its proven historical validity and reliability.

Genesis is only proven to your satisfaction, unfortunaely for you the evidence is not considered valid nor reliable by objective and independant scientific methods, there lies the rub.

.

by Tosh Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:07 am

Pray tell, how did the singularity come to be?

I have watched the documentary series on Stephen Hawling's book " The Grand Design, twice, and I think I have grasped the basic concept.

The universe can be traced back to two fundamentals, energy and space, and we know that the sum total of all energy( positive and negative) in this closed system is zero. Travelling back to the beginning of time, we know the singularity was at the sub-atomic level and the energy must have come from nothing.

We know at the sub-atomic level that protons spontaneously appear and disappear( allbeit for a brief period of time), therefore in the quantum world something spontaneously comes from nothing all the time.

We also calculate that time stops in a black hole, and at the centre of the hole is an infinitely dense singularity.

So by using the known laws of nature, energy and space can spontaneously be created from nothing, and this in turn STARTS time. The universe did not need anything outside these laws to create itself.

Hawking deduces not only was God not necessary to trigger this event, but God cannot exist because( just like the singularity) there was no time before for anything to exist in.

by polyglide Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:38 am

There we go one l of a quesion.

Both, Tosh first illuminate then iliminate

by polyglide Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:55 am

There are numerous individual instances of the existance of God you only have to indentify them.

Every living thing is testament to the existance of God and all the idiotic comments are testiment to the stupidity of man.

We do not understand how God originated be he a singular entity or one of many of the same kind.

We do not understand things that are far less of a problem, so how on earth do you expect us to understand the most difficult one possible.

by Tosh Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:32 pm

There we go one l of a quesion.

Both, Tosh first illuminate then iliminate.

Is this in code dearest ?

by snowyflake Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:58 pm

There are numerous individual instances of the existance of God you only have to indentify them.

Could be explained by biology, neuroscience, anatomy, endocrinology, biochemistry, evolution, drugs, etc.

Every living thing is testament to the existance of God and all the idiotic comments are testiment to the stupidity of man.

99% of the animals that have existed on this planet are extinct. Is that a testament to the existance of God? Was he bored with them? Were they not good enough? I'll refrain from commenting on idiotic comments.

We do not understand how God originated be he a singular entity or one of many of the same kind.

Are you suggesting that God was one of many? This is a very polytheistic view. Christians are monotheistis are they not?

We do not understand things that are far less of a problem, so how on earth do you expect us to understand the most difficult one possible.

Exactly what are you talking about here please?

by Tosh Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:47 pm

So we do know what did not exist before the big bang, there was no time, no space and no energy, in a nutshell nothing.

by sickchip Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:50 am

And outside the nutshell?

by Tosh Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:32 pm

And outside the nutshell?.

How can you be outside of nothing ?

by Shirina Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:54 am

A message ALL Christians ... and even non-Christians ... should watch. This girl has it pegged.

(It won't post the video, so just click the link)

by methought Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:53 am

Nice one Shirina Cool

by polyglide Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:49 am

Seen the video and the young lady has the right idea about love.

We should all love one another in the pure sense of the word but it is almost impossible not to love some more than others and for many different reasons.

Unfortunately, the young lady does not understand the requirement of a Christian, to preach the word of God and spread it throughout the nations.

If you know something as wonderful as the love of God then you would be very selfish not to want to share it.

by Tosh Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:56 pm

Unfortunately, the young lady does not understand the requirement of a Christian, to preach the word of God and spread it throughout the nations.

Tell it to the Congolese and the inhabitants of the AMERICAS, evangelism was not all about preaching.

If you know something as wonderful as the love of God then you would be very selfish not to want to share it. .

A rather polite but naive interpretation of self-righteousness.

by Shirina Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:22 am

Unfortunately, the young lady does not understand the requirement of a Christian, to preach the word of God and spread it throughout the nations.

She didn't say anything about not preaching the word of God.

I think her message was about HOW one preaches the word of God.

Too many preachers (whether ordained or not) believe they are mini-gods that are put here on earth to judge and condemn others, and that is how they pass along God's word. Convert or be judged, obey God or suffer eternal damnation. That's a major turn-off to people who don't already believe. It's no wonder Christianity is declining in the USA.

by snowyflake Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:14 am

I thought her message was that her only job is to reflect the life of Jesus by loving everyone and that's it. No judgement, no condemnation. She doesn't have to preach or bother people with her beliefs. She just has to show you how she lives as a Christian.

by polyglide Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:01 pm

A true Christian does not consider himself/herself to be anything other than a sinner and no better than anyone else and if they do they are not a Christian, they may say they are but they are not.

It appears that one confuses a true Christian with those who profess to be Christians but are not.

The way Christians should conduct themselves is by their actions in the manner they live their lives along with attempting to show and sow the seeds of God's goodness and the opportunity he offers and the rewards for following his bidding and if you consider God's bidding he asks very little in exchange for everything.

Wake up before it is too late.

by Tosh Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:30 pm

A true Christian does not consider himself/herself to be anything other than a sinner and no better than anyone else

I think you are a sinner and no better than anyone else, whereas I am perfect and of course superior.

by snowyflake Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:02 pm

A true Christian does not consider himself/herself to be anything other than a sinner and no better than anyone else and if they do they are not a Christian, they may say they are but they are not.

Really? You sound like you think you're better than any other Christian. You certainly didn't think too much of the girl in the video's message which I thought was exactly the message of Jesus. Your faith, polyglide, automatically places you in a position of judgement and condemnation of anyone who doesn't believe as you do. So you might like feeling like a grovelling sinner and beg God to forgive you and beat yourself up and that makes you a Christian but I can tell you there are loads of Christians out there that will tell you that you are wrong.

BTW Tosh is perfect and of course superior. Smile

by polyglide Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:31 am

Tosh, IFF ONLY.

by polyglide Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:39 am

Snowflake, please learn to read with a little understanding it would help a lot.

At no time have I ever either said or thought I was better in any way than anyone else.

In fact I am ashamed at parts of my life that have been anything but Christian, when I should have behaved in a better way, at no time have I ever doubted God but have at times not acted according to his wishes.

The only one who has been without sin is Jesus and he suffered to save wretches like me and for this I am truly grateful.

by boatlady Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:05 pm

Of course, the central Christian message maybe is something about loving your brother as yourself, which probably means not advocating hatred, trying to understand where other people are coming from, even if we think their behaviour is wicked, and especially not setting ourselves up to be better than anyone else.
I guess if you're living according to those principles you may be manifesting something that others might recognise as being somewhat 'god' like, and that may in the longer term result in a better world. Course, that does mean that we have to put up with people we really don't like, and maybe consider it possible that their point of view is also acceptable, even if it doesn't agree with ours, because it is of course possible that any one of us may be mistaken in our beliefs or attitudes.

by Guest Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:36 pm

Man speaking with man (all inclusive), seeking wisdom through compromise: “Let us consider your point of view and my point of view and seek common ground.”

Man speaking with man (all inclusive), seeking wisdom through YHVH Elohim (God): “Let us consider your point of view and my point of view and seek God’s ground.”

The first pair seek and perhaps find “wisdom” of the created (ha adama), aka foolishness.

The second pair seek and perhaps find wisdom of God (YHWH Elohim), aka truth.

Huge difference.

by Tosh Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:40 pm

The basic tenets of Buddhism are in effect the equivalent to our modern day universal declaration of human rights, Confucius was pretty close with the golden rule equivalent and Plato was no dummy either.

Why people believe Christianity or even Judaism invented morals and ethics is beyond me,

by Tosh Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:46 pm

The first pair seek and perhaps find “wisdom” of the created (ha adama), aka foolishness.

The second pair seek and perhaps find wisdom of God (YHWH Elohim), aka truth.

Huge difference.

Incorrect, you try and disguise your nonsense with obscure verbosity but BS is BS.

You are a man( ha Adama ??? lol) determining what is foolish and what is truth, there is no huge difference.

Try it again in Hebrew, it may persuade some idiots, but it don't wash with me.

.

by Tosh Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:49 pm

the central Christian message

There is no central message in Christianity, people simply cherry pick the bits that sound fair and reasonable to them.

by boatlady Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:38 pm

Could also be the central humanist message, or even just the central 'don't be a bastard' message.

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