God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits

by Greatest I am Tue May 29, 2012 9:11 pm

God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

Omnipotent is defined in part as having power or authority without limits IOW, almighty.

Seems to me that God has a few limits.

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.
He could not create a heaven without Satan.
He could not create Eden without evil in it.
He cannot control wayward demons or devils.
He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.
He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.
He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.
Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL

by Guest Tue May 29, 2012 9:32 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
God is almost omnipotent.

YHVH Elohim is omnipotent.

Greatest I am wrote:
He has many limits.

YHVH Elohim has no limit.

Greatest I am wrote:
Feel free to add to this list.

Why?

by oftenwrong Tue May 29, 2012 10:27 pm

I wish I had such certainty.

Some people are placing a heavy reliance upon the proposition that God may not perhaps be omnipotent and omniscient after all.

All may be revealed in the afterlife.

by tlttf Wed May 30, 2012 8:29 am

Is this a real thread?

by oftenwrong Wed May 30, 2012 10:43 am

It's as real as a fish riding a bicycle, landy. How's business?

by Greatest I am Wed May 30, 2012 3:27 pm

tlttf wrote:Is this a real thread?

Not till someone tries to refute it.

So far the only theist is in denial without refuting mode.
All he has is hearsay and faith and these without facts are for fools.

Regards
DL

by Guest Wed May 30, 2012 7:25 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Not till someone tries to refute it.

In order “to refute it”, there must be an “it” to refute.

Greatest I am wrote:
So far the only theist…

I see no “theist” on this thread. Who might “the only theist” be?

Greatest I am wrote:
… is in denial…

The phrase “in denial” is a mental health diagnosis. Are you a licensed diagnostician whose license authorizes you to diagnose, via Internet, patients that you have not met?

Greatest I am wrote:
… without refuting mode.

What might “refuting mode” be?

Greatest I am wrote:
All he has is hearsay and faith…

Please verify, by facts presented hereon, your as yet unverified assertion that the as yet unidentified “theist” has only “hearsay an faith.”

Greatest I am wrote:
… and these without facts are for fools.

The italicized text, in my view, is intended to be an insult.

by oftenwrong Wed May 30, 2012 7:56 pm

Naah! Just jerking off.
.... and not even in Italics.

by trevorw2539 Thu May 31, 2012 12:27 pm

'God is a spirit, they that worship him worship him in spirit and in truth'. Therefore human terms are only our way of describing what we really do not understand.

by Greatest I am Thu May 31, 2012 2:53 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:'God is a spirit, they that worship him worship him in spirit and in truth'. Therefore human terms are only our way of describing what we really do not understand.

Should you be following a God that you cannot understand?

Regards
DL

by Guest Thu May 31, 2012 2:57 pm

Should a created one acknowledge one’s creation by one’s Creator?

by polyglide Thu May 31, 2012 4:26 pm

There is a great possibility that God's powers are limited but not in the manner we look at limmitations.

I believe in God as the creator but I do not for one minute think that in his domain there are not limits, to suggest that there may not be others of the same nature as God and who also have similar powers etc; would I think be foolish, there is the Devil to contend with for a start and as God gave us the proper manner in which to conduct our affairs there must be similar
arrangemants in the areas that the God like beings reside and not forgetting the size of the universe and all that it may contain.

What I do believe is that God has, or will have very shortly, when he has ousted the Devil, full control of the earth and all there within.

by trevorw2539 Thu May 31, 2012 4:33 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
trevorw2539 wrote:'God is a spirit, they that worship him worship him in spirit and in truth'. Therefore human terms are only our way of describing what we really do not understand.

Should you be following a God that you cannot understand?

Regards
DL

'For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.'

Rather like science. We grope in the dark until light breaks through.

by Greatest I am Thu May 31, 2012 6:31 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Should a created one acknowledge one’s creation by one’s Creator?

Sure. I thank my mother and father.

If you believe in a creator God then show why.

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Thu May 31, 2012 6:35 pm

polyglide wrote:There is a great possibility that God's powers are limited but not in the manner we look at limmitations.

I believe in God as the creator but I do not for one minute think that in his domain there are not limits, to suggest that there may not be others of the same nature as God and who also have similar powers etc; would I think be foolish, there is the Devil to contend with for a start and as God gave us the proper manner in which to conduct our affairs there must be similar
arrangemants in the areas that the God like beings reside and not forgetting the size of the universe and all that it may contain.

What I do believe is that God has, or will have very shortly, when he has ousted the Devil, full control of the earth and all there within.

Full control. So much for freedom.
So your great God is a great slave owner. Ok.
Look forward to your bondage.

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Thu May 31, 2012 6:36 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
trevorw2539 wrote:'God is a spirit, they that worship him worship him in spirit and in truth'. Therefore human terms are only our way of describing what we really do not understand.

Should you be following a God that you cannot understand?

Regards
DL

'For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.'

Rather like science. We grope in the dark until light breaks through.

Science does not punish you for thinking.

Regards
DL

by oftenwrong Thu May 31, 2012 7:33 pm

I'm trying to remember the pseudonym of a previous contributor who always ended his postings with a salutation.

by Guest Thu May 31, 2012 7:33 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
I thank my mother and father.

Your mother and father are not your Creator. The question, quoted below, remains unanswered.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Should a created one acknowledge one’s creation by one’s Creator?

by Shirina Thu May 31, 2012 7:38 pm

I'm trying to remember the pseudonym of a previous contributor who always ended his postings with a salutation.

I know who it is.

Go well.

by Guest Thu May 31, 2012 7:43 pm

I believe it was “Go ill.”

by Greatest I am Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:07 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
I thank my mother and father.

Your mother and father are not your Creator. The question, quoted below, remains unanswered.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Should a created one acknowledge one’s creation by one’s Creator?

Have you met yours to do so?

Regards
DL

by Guest Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:38 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Have you met yours to do so?

The response quoted above is a question.

A question is not an answer to a question.
The three possible answers to a “yes-no” question are “Yes” (affirmative), “No” (negative), and “I don’t know” (insufficient knowledge thereof).

The question, a “yes-no” question, quoted below (second re-quote), remains unanswered.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Should a created one acknowledge one’s creation by one’s Creator?

by polyglide Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:15 pm

Come on the Great Iam, I give you more credit than that.

God promised not slavery or any other kind of bondage he promised man complete freedom to choose and those that believe in him would follow his suggested ways of living a happy and meaningful life.

Had God wanted slavery etc; you would not be making the remarks you are.

by Greatest I am Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:56 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Have you met yours to do so?

The response quoted above is a question.

A question is not an answer to a question.

The three possible answers to a “yes-no” question are “Yes” (affirmative), “No” (negative), and “I don’t know” (insufficient knowledge thereof).

The question, a “yes-no” question, quoted below (second requite), remains unanswered.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Should a created one acknowledge one’s creation by one’s Creator?

All you had to say was no.

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:01 pm

polyglide wrote:Come on the Great Iam, I give you more credit than that.

God promised not slavery or any other kind of bondage he promised man complete freedom to choose and those that believe in him would follow his suggested ways of living a happy and meaningful life.

Had God wanted slavery etc; you would not be making the remarks you are.

Scriptures say that we are slaves to sin or slaves to God.

Your book pal.

Your God murdered A & E the first time they showed they were autonomous beings and did their will instead of God's.

If that is not a master and slave relationship then what is it?
If you think father and child then how many fathers do you know murder their children when they disobey?

Regards
DL

by trevorw2539 Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:58 pm

Your God murdered A & E the first time they showed they were autonomous beings and did their will instead of God's.

Strange. My Bible says that they died of natural causes. Not sure about Eve, but Adam at the ripe old age of 930 years. Their choice. Of course it depends if you read Genesis as literal or literature/ly.

by Guest Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:05 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
All you had to say was no.

The response quoted above is a not an answer to a “yes-no” question. The three possible answers to a “yes-no” question are:

“Yes” (affirmative);
“No” (negative);
“I don’t know” (insufficient knowledge thereof to answer).

The “yes-no” question, quoted below (third re-quote), remains unanswered.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Should a created one acknowledge one’s creation by one’s Creator?

by Guest Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:24 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Your God murdered A & E the first time they showed they were autonomous beings and did their will instead of God's.

trevorw2539 wrote:
Strange. My Bible says that they died of natural causes. Not sure about Eve, but Adam at the ripe old age of 930 years.

Hebrew Bible:

When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.

Genesis 5:3-5

by Greatest I am Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:42 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:Your God murdered A & E the first time they showed they were autonomous beings and did their will instead of God's.

Strange. My Bible says that they died of natural causes. Not sure about Eve, but Adam at the ripe old age of 930 years. Their choice. Of course it depends if you read Genesis as literal or literature/ly.

Ya. People can live 930 years when Jesus said that man's life span was 120 years. Just another bible discrepancy.

Why did she not eat of the tree that would give her immortality?
Because God actively denied it to her.

Strange that you will not answer my simple questions above.
You did not like what you would have had to admit.
Can't handle the truth eh?

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:47 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:[
When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.

Genesis 5:3-5

[/quote]

More truthful to say that God let him die and indeed caused him to die, murdered him, by denying him what would save him.

But truth is not the forte of Christians.

Would you let you children die or would you give them what they would need to live if you, like God, had it at hand?

Simple questions that the dishonest will not answer.

Regards
DL

by Guest Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:57 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Scriptures say that we are slaves to sin or slaves to God.

Greek Bible:

While he was yet speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.”

Matthew 17:5

Hear Y’shua Moshiach.

Greek Bible:

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, “If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”

John 8:31-32

by Greatest I am Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:30 pm

Yawn.

Regards
DL

by Guest Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:09 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Yawn.

Of course.

by trevorw2539 Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:11 pm

Greatest quote. Ya. People can live 930 years when Jesus said that man's life span was 120 years. Just another bible discrepancy.

Both in the Bible and Sumerian legend before the flood all people lived very long lives. This is shown in the Bible and by Sumerian king lists. After the flood in both cases lives are shortened substantially. The difference in the case of the Bible is probably due to the scribe/s who wrote the early accounts. The Sumerian numeral system was sexigesimal (60), while the Semetic numeral system was decimal (10). This would explain the differences. Therefore a 930 year old man (sexigesimal) would indeed be aged - about 156 years old.(decimal) Given the different age gaps at death today this would not be unreasonable for the time.

by Guest Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:28 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Hebrew Bible:

When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.

Genesis 5:3-5

Greatest I am wrote:
More truthful to say that God let him die and indeed caused him to die, murdered him, by denying him what would save him.

Truth:

Hebrew Bible:

When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.

Genesis 5:3-5

by Greatest I am Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:04 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:Greatest quote. Ya. People can live 930 years when Jesus said that man's life span was 120 years. Just another bible discrepancy.

Both in the Bible and Sumerian legend before the flood all people lived very long lives. This is shown in the Bible and by Sumerian king lists. After the flood in both cases lives are shortened substantially. The difference in the case of the Bible is probably due to the scribe/s who wrote the early accounts. The Sumerian numeral system was sexigesimal (60), while the Semetic numeral system was decimal (10). This would explain the differences. Therefore a 930 year old man (sexigesimal) would indeed be aged - about 156 years old.(decimal) Given the different age gaps at death today this would not be unreasonable for the time.

I don't think this justifies God in effect murdering A & E by blocking them from access to what would keep them alive.

If you saw your children dying, would you block access to what would keep them alive?

Regards
DL

by Shirina Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:21 pm

Both in the Bible and Sumerian legend before the flood all people lived very long lives.

Or it could just be part of the mythology.

by oftenwrong Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:16 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:Greatest quote. Ya. People can live 930 years when Jesus said that man's life span was 120 years. Just another bible discrepancy.

Both in the Bible and Sumerian legend before the flood all people lived very long lives. This is shown in the Bible and by Sumerian king lists. After the flood in both cases lives are shortened substantially. The difference in the case of the Bible is probably due to the scribe/s who wrote the early accounts. The Sumerian numeral system was sexigesimal (60), while the Semetic numeral system was decimal (10). This would explain the differences. Therefore a 930 year old man (sexigesimal) would indeed be aged - about 156 years old.(decimal) Given the different age gaps at death today this would not be unreasonable for the time.

In ancient civilisations, the majority of people might not have required precision in expressing the concept of a big number. A suitably large figure could be chosen to represent anything between twenty and a thousand or more.

It's likely that the Romans had difficulty in comprehending large numbers, because of the way they wrote them. Once you pass 100 it just gets silly. The year in which World War Two began, for example, (1939) has to be expressed in Roman figuring as MCMXXXIX so it's no wonder that some scriptures are casual about numbering.

by Blamhappy Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:34 am

Greatest I am wrote:Yawn.

Regards
DL

Be nice.

by trevorw2539 Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:00 am

Shirina quote.

Or it could just be part of the mythology.

True with regard to the very early 'Sumerian kings'. Some dating back 28000 years are almost certainly mythological.
When we come nearer home, 3000BC, we are fairly confident of the truth of the Sumerian Kings lists. Earliest found dated around 2600BC. Gilgamesh was among its kings. The Epic was probably a series of stories made up over centuries by others about Gilgamesh.

'Long' lives were probably down to the numbering systems used. If we used the Sumerian system today I would be around 423 years old. Feel like it at times.

OW quote. In ancient civilisations, the majority of people might not have required precision in expressing the concept of a big number. A suitably large figure could be chosen to represent anything between twenty and a thousand or more.

Exactly. Later In the Bible when Israel faced the Philistines it was '100000' Philistines v '30000' Israelis. Another way of saying the Israelis were greatly outnumbered. Not exact numbers.

But think of the early scribes facing at least two numbering systems. Today we have decimilisation, but there are still older folk who mix Imperial measures and decimals measures.

Greatest quote. I don't think this justifies God in effect murdering A & E by blocking them from access to what would keep them alive.

It wasn't the intention that A & E should die. If you take the Eden story literally death entered only when they ate of the tree.

Quote by Blamhappy. Be nice.

Blamhappy - ooops - I mean be happy Smile

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