So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

by Boudica Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

Having given the topic some serious consideration, I have no idea why the religious hate each other and the irreligious. And vice versa, of course.

Despite being collective worship coordinator at my secondary school, I am an athiest. Not proudly so, I might add - I just don't have faith in a deity or multiples thereof. Having said that, I have no issue with anyone who does. Harnessed in the right way, it can be an astonishing force for good.

I suspect the umbrella I would fall under is humanist, although I have never chosen a banner for myself. I believe in people: the family and friends around me; my students and colleagues; members of the human race in general.

The thing I object to is the evangelising fraternity who,when I politely reject their view of the universe, choose to label me as ... well, all sort of insulting and unfair nonsense. At this stage, please believe that I find Richard Dawkins as irritating as any ayalloah, church elder or priest.

Ultimately, if your religion fascilitates your ability to be a good, kind and humane person, brilliant. If you can be the same without a god, more power to your elbow.

So why can't we leave each other to get on with it?

by snowyflake Sat May 04, 2013 12:23 pm

If you are stood in a remote place without any aids whatsoever you could not see 99% of the world. Nor smell it, yet you know it is there.

I know the world is there because there is evidence for it. There is no evidence that God exists.

Why do you find this such a difficult concept to grasp?

by polyglide Sat May 04, 2013 12:29 pm

GO back and just consider what the initial question was.

by Shirina Sat May 04, 2013 12:32 pm

You are unable to make heads or tails of anything that you do not agree with, the site gives accurate details of the present and past state of the world you are only too keen to accept the ramblings of scientists theories but when confronted with verifiable stastitics you cannnot understand them.

Polyglide, the site was littered with dozens (if not hundreds) of internal links. If you're going to present statistics, then present them. Don't make me go looking for them. If you cannot link directly to a list of the 250 "major" conflicts you claim have been fought since WWI, then reproduce a partial list of them here. In fact, you didn't even link the site. I had to copy-paste it into Google, so who knows, I may have gone to the wrong site, but judging from what I saw, I doubt it.

It just shows a total lack of common sense a far more desirable quality than any degree.

LOL! Here we go with the anti-education malarky. You should come to the USA and rub shoulders with the rural rednecks who say the same thing - and always vote Republican. No, on second thought, don't. Even one more is too many.

If you are stood in a remote place without any aids whatsoever you could not see 99% of the world. Nor smell it, yet you know it is there.

Yeah, that's because of our education, not our common sense. Now, go back even 500 years and realize that Colombus had no clue that North America existed. He thought he could travel from Portugal to India by crossing the Atlantic. So much for common sense.

by Shirina Sat May 04, 2013 12:36 pm

With just common sense I can get that enormous tumour out of your head.

Nah, I'll just pray it away, thanks. Cool

by polyglide Tue May 07, 2013 2:48 pm

As well as everything else you cannot understand the meaning of common sense.

by Shirina Tue May 07, 2013 5:21 pm

As well as everything else you cannot understand the meaning of common sense.

LOL! No, we DO understand what common sense is, which is why we're getting a big laugh. You seem to think that common sense is only possessed by the uneducated and I find that both hysterical and annoying at the same time. It is such a cliché among the uneducated. In fact, it's a very popular meme in trailer parks and ghettos all across the Western world.

by oftenwrong Tue May 07, 2013 7:44 pm

Nobody has ever, in the whole history of mankind, admitted to a lack of a sense of humour or not possessing Common Sense.

by polyglide Wed May 08, 2013 5:21 pm

Those lacking in both just do not realise the fact.

by snowyflake Fri May 10, 2013 7:45 pm

Those lacking in both just do not realise the fact.

Yes, you keep proving that on this forum.....but you do not realise the fact.

by polyglide Sat May 11, 2013 11:05 am

From someone so lackinmg in ALL the required elements of sanity and understanding any comments are of little significance especially when they do not realise they are replying to commants applicable to themselves.

Originality is obviously not your strong point, come to that just what is or have you no point.

by snowyflake Sat May 11, 2013 11:43 am

Can I ask you this polyglide: Where in your bible does Jesus say to speak to people the way you are speaking to them on this forum? Where does Jesus say that he is the way, the truth and the light by denigrating, insulting or otherwise being ignorant to other people? I don't believe that the jesus of your bible did any of these things.

The point is are you really a Christian?

So far you are so far removed from any christian that I know that I don't believe for one second you believe in Jesus or God. I think you are just here to argue and cause trouble.

If that's the case. Just go away already.

by polyglide Sat May 11, 2013 12:18 pm

The trouble is Snowyflake you want to dish it ot but cannot take it.

Just read your own posts.

I believe that if some sense can be knocked into those unable to realise the truth then any means is reasonable and once they have been brought to their senses we can all have a good time, it takes a little longer the less reasonable the target is but I think we will get there eventually.

by Tosh Sat May 11, 2013 1:04 pm

you want to dish it out but cannot take it.

Matthew Chapter 2 verse 1.....or maybe not.

by snowyflake Sat May 11, 2013 1:20 pm

The trouble is Snowyflake you want to dish it ot but cannot take it.

I don't think I've made any mention of you having penile erectile dysfunction because of your age since how your penis functions now or in the past has nothing to do with the conversation. Therefore it is irrelevant and would never think that this is the proper forum to mention it.

I believe that if some sense can be knocked into those unable to realise the truth then any means is reasonable and once they have been brought to their senses we can all have a good time, it takes a little longer the less reasonable the target is but I think we will get there eventually.

I see. So beating the concept of God into people's heads is the way to go is it? Being rude, ignorant, uneducated is a means to an end? Talking out of your backside is ok so long as it brings people around to belief in invisible beings?

Try this on for size ok? Why not use facts and evidence to support your claims, don't resort to silly remarks that are not based on evidence or facts and I think we get there eventually.

And whilst you're about claiming to be a Christian, please note that so far your behaviour on this forum, does not inspire anyone and I repeat anyone to become a Christian if it means you have to be an arse to people.

by polyglide Mon May 13, 2013 3:28 pm

No, once again you miss the point entirely.

The method is to knock some sense into the dense and make their brain function as intended when God created them.

You started the sarcasm not me.

Just look at your replies to reasonable suggestions, you say I am closed to others opinions, talk about the kettle.

I think if I can make anyone realise the existance of God, then any means is worth a try, the end result would be a delight to both those involved.

Thosa who live in a dark place cannot see the light.

by snowyflake Mon May 13, 2013 8:43 pm

I think if I can make anyone realise the existance of God, then any means is worth a try, the end result would be a delight to both those involved.

You cannot make anyone realise the existence of God. You can't even provide evidence of his existence. You don't understand that when you make extraordinary claims, you must provide extraordinary evidence. You say that God is self-evident. I don't see him. There is a big clue right there. When all 5 of your senses is not aware of a being calling himself GOd, it's probably a good bet that he doesn't exist.

I don't believe in spirits, ghosts, devils, angels, demons, gods, fairies, sprites, leprachauns, James Bond or paranormal activity. I believe that aliens or alien life probably exists elsewhere in the universe but I don't believe they visit this planet. They may have in the far distant past but I don't think they do now. I don't believe that anything and everything can happen or exist. I believe in 'what you see is what you get.' Anything else, you better have evidence.

In everything you do, polyglide, you use evidence. You drive a car, cross the road safely, buy and sell, read, learn, keep a house, tend a garden, maybe do some DIY. You learned these things by watching others, taking classes or reading about it. You base your entire life on evidence, trial and error...EXCEPT when it comes to God. Then you just throw your rational thinking brain right out the window and believe that an invisible all-powerful, all-knowing being takes a personal interest in your life. You! And that because of original sin he sent his only son, who is God also, to die horribly tortured in atonement. Does this even make sense to you? I find the whole concept abhorrent.

Does God watch over you, polyglide? How strong is your faith? You would be able to handle anything so long as you believed? Then give all your worldly goods to your Church and see if God looks after you then. I believe Jesus made that challenge himself. Funny how Christians just seem to gloss over that bit of the bible.

by polyglide Tue May 14, 2013 2:57 pm

I have given more than enough evidence that evolution has no place in creation and if God is not the Creator, who or what is?

I have never ever refused to help anyone that it has been within my power to do so.

I can handle everything life throws at me and believe me I have needed the help and guidance of God on several occasions and coinsidence cannot have been involved, unfortunately, it has to be experienced to understand.

If someone said their foot realy hurt and you did not know what pain was then you would not understand, the same applies to the acceptance of God.

The evidence is there you only have to look in the right place.

by Tosh Tue May 14, 2013 6:19 pm

I have given more than enough evidence that evolution has no place in creation and if God is not the Creator, who or what is?

Eh ?

You have provided no evidence that disputes evolution, and you have no proof that life cannot have begun as an electro- chemical reaction.

by snowyflake Tue May 14, 2013 7:30 pm

Does God watch over you, polyglide? How strong is your faith? You would be able to handle anything so long as you believed? Then give all your worldly goods to your Church and see if God looks after you then. I believe Jesus made that challenge himself. Funny how Christians just seem to gloss over that bit of the bible.

Not only did you provide no evidence that evolution is false, you didn't address this either, polyglide.

How about it polyglide? Do what Jesus commanded and show that you have faith in your God that he will provide for you.

Or doesn't your faith extend that far?

by Shirina Tue May 14, 2013 10:10 pm

I have given more than enough evidence that evolution has no place in creation

I'm still waiting for you to address vestigial parts of the human body - such as male nipples, goosebumps, the appendix, the bone that is only useful for running on all fours, and the ear muscles some people have that once allowed humans to move their ears around like a cat. Yep, STILL waiting ...

Let's also not forget about the obvious flaws in the human body such as using the same pipe to breathe and eat. Tick tock.

and if God is not the Creator, who or what is?

So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists? - Page 13 Miracle

I have needed the help and guidance of God on several occasions

So how, precisely, has God guided you? Let's hear the specifics. Was it a vision? A booming voice from the sky? Did an angel appear? Did you find a lost book of the Bible written just for you? Details, please.

and coinsidence cannot have been involved, unfortunately, it has to be experienced to understand.

So you're saying that God was nice enough to help you through some banal event but decided to sit on his hands throughout the Holocaust?

by polyglide Fri May 17, 2013 12:02 pm

I do not know if you have experienced love of any kind but I can tell you it is a very powerful thing.

I have loved on many levels and in different ways.

The best feeling of love I have ever experienced is the love of God.

I cannot explain it to you you have to experience it but believe me it is well worth the effort to find it.

It would also help you to consider everything in a different light.

by Shirina Fri May 17, 2013 12:20 pm

The best feeling of love I have ever experienced is the love of God.

That's because the imagination is infinite. It's like creating for yourself an infinitely sized glass that you can fill with an infinite quantity of your favorite drink.

I prefer the love of real people, people who love me and whom I love in return without any coersion, threats, tyranical conditions, and visions of eternal torture.

The fact that their love is not infinite makes it all the more precious.

by polyglide Fri May 17, 2013 12:27 pm

You are in no position to say anything other than your own selfish reasoning, you are so self indulgant that your posts become boring and less realistic than the chance of life coming about by chance.

Try a few lessons in considering the facts instead of self.

by Shirina Fri May 17, 2013 12:39 pm

You are in no position to say anything other than your own selfish reasoning

Spare me the hypocrisy. Your belief in your Bronze Age religion is far more self-indulgent than I could possibly describe with the words available in the English language. You chose to believe in God, and you did so to save your soul, not out of some bizarre sense of altruism. You believe what you do to avoid death and receive a bright and shiny reward at the end of the road. Don't EVER accuse me of self-indulgent behavior when your entire belief system is predicated on it.

Try a few lessons in considering the facts instead of self.

Facts are independent of self, which is why I dispute Rock's mantra of "personal truth is truth."

Just because I prefer the love of real people does not make me self-indulgent ... unless you love no one and no one loves you. But of course that's what Jesus preached, isn't it? To leave your family and "follow me"?

by snowyflake Fri May 17, 2013 8:46 pm

Believers only believe because they think they get the grand prize at the end of their life.

Any believer denying this is lying.

by snowyflake Fri May 17, 2013 9:01 pm

To leave your family and "follow me"?

Matthew 19:21

Yeshua said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor and you will have treasure in Heaven, and come after me.”

The believers tend to overlook this verse and sweep it under the pew.

by Guest Fri May 17, 2013 11:23 pm

snowyflake wrote:
The believers tend to overlook this verse and sweep it under the pew.

Atheists are believers; accordingly, your statement can be read, “The [atheists] tend to overlook this verse and sweep it under the pew.”

by snowyflake Fri May 17, 2013 11:38 pm

Atheists are not believers in Matthew 19:21. Believers are. Have you given all you own to the poor?

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 4:35 am

snowyflake wrote:
The believers tend to overlook this verse and sweep it under the pew.

snowyflake wrote:
Atheists are not believers in Matthew 19:21. Believers are. Have you given all you own to the poor?

Atheists are believers; accordingly, your statement can be read, “The [atheists] tend to overlook this verse and sweep it under the pew.”

by Shirina Sat May 18, 2013 8:09 am

Atheists are believers

I've soundly refuted this claim. It's been two days and no refutation or rebuttal of any merit has been offered.

Therefore, my original argument still stands.

Let's hear all about how Christians only "believe" that Zeus doesn't exist.

by polyglide Sat May 18, 2013 11:01 am

Shirina, to consider anything you first have to understand that which is in question.

Words are used to convey to another that which they wish to.

There are accepted usages of the words as detailed in any dictionary.

The word athiest is clearly stated as and nothing more, than one who does not belive in God.

It has nothing to do with Greek mythology or anything else.

AS uaual you do not keep to the question but wonder off into the wilderness.

by snowyflake Sat May 18, 2013 11:34 am

The word athiest is clearly stated as and nothing more, than one who does not belive in God.

An atheist is a person who lacks belief in God/gods/god. As there are 3000+ gods invented by humans over the millennia, by definition you are an atheist of all of those other gods. A complete atheist just goes that extra step and discounts all of them.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 3:19 pm

Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t681p480-sowhy-is-it-religions-hate-each-other-and-atheists#40769
Atheists are believers
I've soundly refuted this claim.

Merriam-Webster
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

atheist

athe•ist noun \ˈā-thē-ist\

Definition of ATHEIST

: one who believes that there is no deity

By definition of Merriam-Webster, an atheist believes that there is no deity, accordingly, by definition of Merriam-Webster, an atheist is a believer that there is no deity.

I await your refutation of Merriam-Webster.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

Atheist Empire
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

Atheist and Atheism Defined
English: atheist
Cambridge International:
someone who believes that God or gods do not exist

By definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist believes that God or gods do not exist, accordingly, by definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist is a believer that God or gods do not exist.

I await your refutation of Atheist Empire.
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html

Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963)
http://atheists.org/atheism

Your petitioners are atheists and they define their beliefs as follows. An atheist believes¹ that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.

An atheist believes² that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.

An atheist believes³ that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.

An atheist believes⁴ that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes⁵ that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said.

He believes⁶ that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.

He believes⁷ that we are our brother's keepers and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.

By definition of petitioners in Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), an atheist believes seven things, accordingly, by definitionof petitioners in Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), an atheist is a believer of seven things.

I await your refutation of petitioners in Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963).
http://atheists.org/atheism

by Shirina Sat May 18, 2013 4:01 pm

I await your refutation

I've soundly refuted this claim. It's been two days and no refutation or rebuttal of any merit has been offered.

Therefore, my original argument still stands.

Let's hear all about how Christians only "believe" that Zeus doesn't exist.

by Shirina Sat May 18, 2013 4:06 pm

It has nothing to do with Greek mythology or anything else.

AS uaual you do not keep to the question but wonder off into the wilderness.

I can't help it if you appear to be unable or unwilling to grasp the nuances of the English language.

(I really miss the good old days of religious debates that involved point, counterpoint, counter-counter point instead of the brick walls and stagnant ad nauseum posts that I'm confronted with now).

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 4:21 pm

Shirina wrote: https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t681p510-sowhy-is-it-religions-hate-each-other-and-atheists#40797
I await your refutation
I've soundly refuted this claim.

You have refuted neither Merriam-Webster, Atheist Empire, nor petitioners in Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963).

By definition of Merriam-Webster, an atheist believes that there is no deity, accordingly, by definition of Merriam-Webster, an atheist is a believer that there is no deity.

I await your refutation of Merriam-Webster.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist
By definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist believes that God or gods do not exist, accordingly, by definition of Atheist Empire, an atheist is a believer that God or gods do not exist.

I await your refutation of Atheist Empire.
http://atheistempire.com/atheism/defined.html
By definition of petitioners in Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), an atheist believes seven things, accordingly, by definitionof petitioners in Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), an atheist is a believer of seven things.

I await your refutation of petitioners in Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963).
http://atheists.org/atheism

by Shirina Sat May 18, 2013 4:31 pm

by polyglide Mon May 20, 2013 1:24 pm

Athiests do believe but in all the wrong things.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:15 pm

Boudica wrote:Having given the topic some serious consideration, I have no idea why the religious hate each other and the irreligious. And vice versa, of course.

Despite being collective worship coordinator at my secondary school, I am an athiest. Not proudly so, I might add - I just don't have faith in a deity or multiples thereof. Having said that, I have no issue with anyone who does. Harnessed in the right way, it can be an astonishing force for good.

I suspect the umbrella I would fall under is humanist, although I have never chosen a banner for myself. I believe in people: the family and friends around me; my students and colleagues; members of the human race in general.

The thing I object to is the evangelising fraternity who,when I politely reject their view of the universe, choose to label me as ... well, all sort of insulting and unfair nonsense. At this stage, please believe that I find Richard Dawkins as irritating as any ayalloah, church elder or priest.

Ultimately, if your religion fascilitates your ability to be a good, kind and humane person, brilliant. If you can be the same without a god, more power to your elbow.

So why can't we leave each other to get on with it?

Religions compete in a niche market, when polytheism was abandoned for monotheism this became a much more aggressive version of belief. As can be seen from the attitude ubiquitous in the old testament. As for living together and letting one another get on with it, well if beliefs made no demands that would be fine, but they generally reflect the views, good and bad, of the cultures and societies that spawned and formed them. The inherent problem is when societies evolve in almost complete isolation from one another and have polarised views on major issues, see the middle east and developing countries against modern developed democracies. The added dimension of believing their views are sanctioned by an omnipotent deity who doesn't bargain over it's laws and the position becomes fairly entrenched. The results are fairly obvious and predictable. Try championing the rights of women or homosexuals in strict muslim countries and you'll see that the efficacy of your moral polemic doesn't cut much ice.

by stuart torr Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:02 pm

Hi Sheldon, well that should give them something to think about should it not, you might get one or two replies also when they have had time to digest it all.

by AW Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:28 pm

They do say that there is just enough love in the world to make everybody hate each other and not enough to make everybody love each other.

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