To hate Jews is to hate God

by Greatest I am Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:22 pm

To hate Jews is to hate God.

If you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, then you must believe that God planned for it and set the conditions even before the earth was formed. If as most believe, the Jews were the cause of the sacrifice, then one must believe that God put the notion and desire to kill Jesus in the Jewish hearts. Jews then were God’s tools in carrying out God’s plan. Jews then should be venerated just as Jesus is because Jesus and Jews were required and caused by God to participate in the sacrifice. They were all doing God’s will and not their own.

Jesus was a Jew and to hate Jews means that Jesus is also hated. The church has historically persecuted Jews and only repented for their actions in 2011 with the pope acknowledging that not all Jews should be hated. Just those directly involved in the sacrifice of Jesus. Ignoring of course that they were charged directly by God to be and do what God wanted.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jews-not-responsible-for-death-of-christ-pope-says-49267/

Why then have Christians historically hated Jews, and by inference, hate the Jew part of God/Jesus the Jew?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKg4HLsu5gE&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

The weird twist to this history is that the Christian right who hates Jews the most, is now the ones pushing for funding of the Jewish homeland to fulfill prophesy.

Most Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. Is the Christian right just funding Jews to help drive them to destruction at the hands of God?

Jews tend not to read the O. T. the way Christians do. Are Christian interpretations of Jewish text superior or inferior to the Jewish interpretation of their own myths?

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:24 pm

I asked a well-informed Jewish friend to comment before I posted this and this is what he had to say.

Modern Jews and ancient Jews for one. I suppose you are concerned about modern Jewish opinion. Yes, some modern Jews are concerned that Christian Right support isn't for the best, that there is a hidden agenda to benefit Christian Right at the expense of Jews. Other modern Jews (particularly Israeli Right) don't care if there is a hidden agenda or not, they are happy to take anyone's support. These same cynical guys gave and took support from White S African racists (prior to Mandela liberation) and supported the White S African nuclear weapons program. Such people are typically atheist Israeli Jews BTW. Religious Jews generally distrust any Christians bearing gifts (they are Greeks of a sort anyway). Atheists Jews aren't particular, they will take support from anyone (see their behavior in the early Soviet Union). Modern Israel was founded by atheist socialist Jews (the Bund). Religious Jews prior to 1948 and some even prior to 1967 did not believe that Israel should be re-established, without the Messiah. Some religious Jews still believe this (Naturei Karta) and these Jews have cordial relations with Hamas. Such Jews of course would be anathema to the Christian Right. The Christian Right doesn't mind atheist Jews, because they believe all Jews atheist or not will be damned by G-d. Some of the Christian Right also believe that the Jews are not real Jews, only Gentiles are Jews (at least some are seen as such, such as the British Royal Family ... see Anglo-American Israelitism). Many Gentiles believe that modern Jews are of impure "race" anyway, or are even nephelim (angelic spawned demons). A good book on the death of Jesus (at least in literature if not in fact) is "Who Killed Jesus?" by John Dominic Crossan.

Actually I would say that to hate anyone, is to hate G-d ... so some of the verses of the Bible are clearly not inspired, because hate is talked about positively at times. It is possible that some verses are meant ironically. The other thing your scheme implies is that of Pauline predetermination. Paul clearly went beyond predestination to predetermination. He didn't believe in free will, and pointedly talked about his lack of free will, and resulting lack of responsibility, in the beginning of the Epistle to the Romans. In no way did Jesus ever talk in those terms, but then Paul wasn't a follower of the fictional synoptic Jesus (aka a historical Jesus), but of a gnostic angelic figure (vision on the road to Damascus) more like the Johannine Jesus. I don't believe the idea of a realistic Jesus even occurred to anyone until after the destruction of Jerusalem, which was after Paul's death. The realistic synoptic Jesus was turned into the historical Jesus by Christian argumentation. The actual Johannine gospel came last, but its ideas were first, having been written in reaction to the synoptic Jesus, who was written in reaction to the Gnostic Jesus aka Avalokiteshvara and the Gnostic Virgin Mary (Prajnaparamita).

There are lots of reasons for Christians to hate Jews and vice versa:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13855238

But I don't think it has ever been legitimate, that is ... it is an expression of sin not virtue. Christians and Muslims should especially value Jewish people, but they are violent, immoral, jealous, stupid (well that is the Jewish stereotype).

Shalom

by oftenwrong Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:29 pm

Did you discover anti-semitism all by yourself?
You must be on the point of inventing Sex.

by tlttf Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:45 pm

Probably invented it and declined all in one go.
GIA are you selling whatever your taking?

by polyglide Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:34 pm

To actually hate anyone is self destructive and has no place in any religion or any other walk of life, to disagree is another matter.

by Greatest I am Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:16 pm

polyglide wrote:To actually hate anyone is self destructive and has no place in any religion or any other walk of life, to disagree is another matter.

Yet bible God hates many and if his followers are to emulate him the way scriptures say they should, then they too must hate and historically they have followed him quite eagerly.

Regards
DL

by Guest Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:58 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
… bible God hates..

Greek Bible:

“Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent his only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.”

1 John 4:7-10

Greek Bible:

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who will have all¹ men² to be saved and to come unto the knowledge³ of the truth⁴. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men,² the man² Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all¹…”

1 Timothy 2:3-6

πᾶς, pas, all, every, the whole, everyone.
ἄνθρωπος, anthrōpos, a human being, man.
ἐπίγνωσις, epignōsis (from ἐπί, epi, an intensifier, and γνῶσις, gnōsis, knowledge), clear and exact knowledge, thorough participation in the object of the knowledge.
ἀλήθεια, alētheia, true, truly, truth, verity.

Greatest I am wrote:
… and if his followers are to emulate him the way scriptures say they should, then they too must hate…

Greek Bible:

“This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.”

John 15:12-13

Hebrew Bible:

“… you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord.”

“The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:18, 34

by trevorw2539 Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:10 am

Bit rough for Christians not getting on with the Jews and vice versa. The Bible tells us that both groups will be in heaven. But shush, don't tell them. It'll be a surprise. Smile

by polyglide Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:06 am

If you follow the teaching of love then there is no need or place for hate.

In the case of hate as used in the Bible I feel a more fitting explanation would be disapointment and disapproval.

by trevorw2539 Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:51 am

Polyglide. Believe me or not, there is a lot of hate in the Bible. Just study the OT for a start. It's not a case of 'fitting explanations'. It's a case of truth. The OT is full of nations/peoples/individuals loathing the Jews, and the Jews loathing them.

Genesis 34:35.

Jews and Samaritans. Ezra 4. Refusal by Jews to allow Samaritans to help rebuild temple, and the destruction of the Samaritan 'Temple' by the Maccabeans, partially causing the hatred between them in the time of Christ.

Many more examples of hate are to be found.

Plus God 'hates': Proverbs 6:16-19. Psalm 11:5. Zech. 8:17. Rev. 2:6 & 15.
The word 'hates' is only the human term for expressing something we cannot really understand, not being 'gods'.

by oftenwrong Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:53 am

I'm looking for some cursive script that will blow every other argument out of the water. Cool

Starting here ... Kurios (also at times spelled kyrios or kuros, Greek κύριος) is a Greek word that may apply to God, lord, master, or guardian. In ancient Greece, a woman could not enter into a contract herself and arrangements were made by her guardian or Kurios. For an unmarried woman the Kurios would be her father, and if dead, brothers an uncle or relative would be the Kurios.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurios

by Guest Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:16 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:
Genesis 34:35.

There is no Genesis 34:35 (Genesis Chapter 34 verse 35). Genesis 34 ends at verse 31, “But they said, ‘Should he treat our sister as a harlot?’”

Are you speaking of Genesis Chapters 34 and 35? If so, are you speaking of portrayals of ha adama’s (mankind's) hate or portrayals of YHVH Elohim’s (the Lord God’s) hate in these chapters?

trevorw2539 wrote:
Ezra 4.

Which parts of Ezra 4 exhibit hate? I’ve left certain verse numbers within the text to facilitate location thereof. Who originates hate? To whom is hate directed?

Hebrew Bible:

^[1]Now when the enemies of Judah and Benjamin heard that the people of the exile were building a temple to the Lord God of Israel, they approached Zerubbabel and the heads of fathers’ households, and said to them, “Let us build with you, for we, like you, seek your God; and we have been sacrificing to him since the days of Esarhaddon king of Assyria, who brought us up here.” But Zerubbabel and Jeshua and the rest of the heads of fathers’ households of Israel said to them, “You have nothing in common with us in building a house to our God, but we ourselves will together build to the Lord God of Israel, as King Cyrus, the king of Persia has commanded us.”

^[4]Then the people of the land discouraged the people of Judah, and frightened them from building, and hired counselors against them to frustrate their counsel all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius king of Persia.

^[6]Now in the reign of Ahasuerus, in the beginning of his reign, they wrote an accusation against the inhabitants of Judah and Jerusalem. And in the days of Artaxerxes, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel and the rest of his colleagues wrote to Artaxerxes king of Persia; and the text of the letter was written in Aramaic and translated from Aramaic.

^[8]Rehum the commander and Shimshai the scribe wrote a letter against Jerusalem to King Artaxerxes, as follows—then wrote Rehum the commander and Shimshai the scribe and the rest of their colleagues, the judges and the lesser governors, the officials, the secretaries, the men of Erech, the Babylonians, the men of Susa, that is, the Elamites, and the rest of the nations which the great and honorable Osnappar deported and settled in the city of Samaria, and in the rest of the region beyond the River. Now this is the copy of the letter which they sent to him:

“To King Artaxerxes: Your servants, the men in the region beyond the River, and now let it be known to the king that the Jews who came up from you have come to us at Jerusalem; they are rebuilding the rebellious and evil city and are finishing the walls and repairing the foundations. Now let it be known to the king, that if that city is rebuilt and the walls are finished, they will not pay tribute, custom or toll, and it will damage the revenue of the kings. Now because we are in the service of the palace, and it is not fitting for us to see the king’s dishonor, therefore we have sent and informed the king, so that a search may be made in the record books of your fathers. And you will discover in the record books and learn that that city is a rebellious city and damaging to kings and provinces, and that they have incited revolt within it in past days; therefore that city was laid waste. We inform the king that if that city is rebuilt and the walls finished, as a result you will have no possession in the province beyond the River.”

^[17]Then the king sent an answer to Rehum the commander, to Shimshai the scribe, and to the rest of their colleagues who live in Samaria and in the rest of the provinces beyond the River: “Peace. And now the document which you sent to us has been translated and read before me. A decree has been issued by me, and a search has been made and it has been discovered that that city has risen up against the kings in past days, that rebellion and revolt have been perpetrated in it, that mighty kings have ruled over Jerusalem, governing all the provinces beyond the River, and that tribute, custom and toll were paid to them. So, now issue a decree to make these men stop work, that this city may not be rebuilt until a decree is issued by me. Beware of being negligent in carrying out this matter; why should damage increase to the detriment of the kings?”

^[23]Then as soon as the copy of King Artaxerxes’ document was read before Rehum and Shimshai the scribe and their colleagues, they went in haste to Jerusalem to the Jews and stopped them by force of arms. Then work on the house of God in Jerusalem ceased, and it was stopped until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.

Ezra 4

trevorw2539 wrote:
Proverbs 6:16-19. Psalm 11:5. Zech. 8:17.

Hebrew Bible:

There are six things which the Lord hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:

Haughty eyes,¹ a lying tongue,²
And hands that shed innocent blood,³

A heart that devises wicked plans,⁴
Feet that run rapidly to evil,⁵

A false witness who utters lies,⁶
And one who spreads strife among brothers.⁷

Proverbs 6:16-19

Note that, in this passage, “God hates” behaviors, not people. Also note that, in this passage, the behaviors that “God hates” are behaviors that decent, ethical, moral people should avoid like plagues.

Hebrew Bible:

The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked,
And the one who loves violence⁸ his soul hates.

Psalm 11:5

Once again, in this passage, “his (God’s) soul hates” a behavior that decent, ethical, moral people should avoid.

Hebrew Bible:

“‘Also let none of you devise evil in your heart against another,⁹ and do not love perjury;¹⁰ for all these are what I hate,’ declares the Lord.”

Zechariah 8:17

Once again, “‘I hate,’ declare the Lord”, behaviors that decent, ethical, moral people should avoid.

In these three Hebrew Bible passages, you’ve located ten (10) behaviors that, in my opinion, all decent, ethical, moral people should not only avoid, but abhor.

trevorw2539 wrote:
Rev. 2:6 & 15.

Greek Bible:

Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans,¹¹ which I also hate.

So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans.

Revelation 2:6, 15

In this Greek Bible passage, John reveals that God hates the “deeds” of a certain people. Once we’ve discovered those deeds, we’ll know what behaviors God hates. Once again, it’s behaviors rather than people that God hates. Additionally, I suspect that as a person who seeks to be decent, ethical, and moral, the specified deeds, if and when identified, will be behaviors that I should avoid and abhor.

by trevorw2539 Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:18 pm

Jews and Samaritans. Ezra 4. Refusal by Jews to allow Samaritans to help rebuild temple, and the destruction of the Samaritan 'Temple' by the Maccabeans, partially causing the hatred between them in the time of Christ.
When the Samaritans were not allowed to help rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem in Ezra's time, they built their own Temple on Mount Gerizim. Much later there was bitter conflict between the Jews and Maccabeans theologically which resulted in the Maccabeans laying seige to the 'city' and Mount Gerizim and destroying them. (Short version).

A false witness who utters lies,?
And one who spreads strife among brothers.?
The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked,
And the one who loves violence his soul hates.?

Seems to me god is talking about the person, not the act

The actual point of my post was that there is hate in the Bible, whether of person or attitudes. It was in answer to Polyglide quote.
'In the case of hate as used in the Bible I feel a more fitting explanation would be disapointment and disapproval.'

Perhaps I should qualify my statement by saying 'The Bible records many deeds and attitudes brought on by feelings of hatred'.

by Guest Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:27 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:
Jews and Samaritans. Ezra 4. Refusal by Jews to allow Samaritans to help rebuild temple, and the destruction of the Samaritan 'Temple' by the Maccabeans, partially causing the hatred between them in the time of Christ.

When the Samaritans were not allowed to help rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem in Ezra's time, they built their own Temple on Mount Gerizim. Much later there was bitter conflict between the Jews and Maccabeans theologically which resulted in the Maccabeans laying seige to the 'city' and Mount Gerizim and destroying them. (Short version).

These passages appear to be accurate historical accounts; accordingly, these passages have nothing to do with God’s emotion and everything to do with men’s emotion.

In matters historical, the Abraham and post-Abraham Hebrew Bible is dead on accurate. “Remember the Hittites.” I assume the Books of Maccabee are also historically accurate. Such accuracy requires “telling it like it was”, and human emotions are always at the core of the story.

trevorw2539 wrote:
A false witness who utters lies,?
And one who spreads strife among brothers.?
The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked,
And the one who loves violence his soul hates.?

Seems to me god is talking about the person, not the act

Allow me to repost the excerpts with different emphases.

“A false witness who utters lies?”
“And one who spreads strife among brothers?”
“The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked,
And the one who loves violence his soul hates?”

In each instance, behavior (“utters lies”, “spreads strife among brothers”, “loves violence”) drives the identification. If the one who “utters lies”, “spreads strife among brothers”, and “loves violence” ceases these behaviors, the necessary inference is that YHVH Elohim ceases hatred thereof.

For years, George Corley Wallace, multiple times governor of Alabama, exhibited rabid racist behavior. During a 1972 presidential rally and speech, he survived an assassination attempt which left him paraplegic, wheelchair-bound, for the rest of his life. Subsequent to this tragedy, somewhere along the way, Wallace repented and shifted his life course one hundred eighty degrees.

I hated George Wallace. Or at least I thought I hated George Wallace. After his repentance, I discovered that I loved George Wallace. It turns out that I hated the behavior and tied my hatred of the behavior to the man behaving. Good and necessary lesson to myself.

trevorw2539 wrote:
Perhaps I should qualify my statement by saying 'The Bible records many deeds and attitudes brought on by feelings of hatred'.

Understood.

by Greatest I am Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:59 pm

polyglide wrote:If you follow the teaching of love then there is no need or place for hate.

In the case of hate as used in the Bible I feel a more fitting explanation would be disapointment and disapproval.

Quite handy when hate is used all over the bible.
Oh well. There goes the English language.

Reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VsN3IG1HtQ

Can't blame you for re-writing it though. It is quite the fail as it stands.

Regards
DL

by polyglide Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:22 am

You can take any period in history including the present and you will find examples of pure hatred.

It has and always will be part of humanity until the day of everyone having to account for their actions.

I doubt very much if there is any one country in the world where there are not differences of opinions that could be classed as hatred of one kind or another but this does not have anything to do with God, it has everything to do with the lack of mankind not adhering to what God tells us is the right manner in which to conduct our affairs.

I think if you consider hate in the Bible you will find in most cases it is telling us that it is abhorent in God's eyes and a warning that it is self destructive
and who could argue with that.

by Greatest I am Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:09 pm

polyglide wrote:You can take any period in history including the present and you will find examples of pure hatred.

It has and always will be part of humanity until the day of everyone having to account for their actions.

I doubt very much if there is any one country in the world where there are not differences of opinions that could be classed as hatred of one kind or another but this does not have anything to do with God, it has everything to do with the lack of mankind not adhering to what God tells us is the right manner in which to conduct our affairs.

I think if you consider hate in the Bible you will find in most cases it is telling us that it is abhorent in God's eyes and a warning that it is self destructive
and who could argue with that.

Perhaps that is why God is absentee. He self destructed because no human would hate as much as he does.

Do I really need to get all the quotes that show how much he hates so many of us?

Just count the numbers heading for hell from what God says.

I asked the same type of question in this O P.

-----------------------------------

Why do you need for there to be a hell and Satan?

Statistics show that quite a few Christians and Catholics and Muslims believe in a Satan and a hell.

Does this explains why you demand that a burning torturous hell exist?

I though that it was just your love of hating the others that will not join your tribe but it may go to a deeper psychological need for your own exoneration of guilt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAq...eature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvhGeNzdRZA

IMPOV.
Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.

You should think of hell just a bit and recognize that God would not create such an immoral construct. Lose your barbaric tribal mentality. We are in 2011, not 111.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZM3FXlLMug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FKn...eature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpJ8...eature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7C...eature=related

If the first link is not true, then what is your reason for ignoring all the good and moral reason that hell must not and should not exist?

Why would you have your God send, or allow, if you actually believe that we choose hell over God, to send souls to a hell?

Please do not give the B S reason of free will. Sending or allowing someone to go to hell eliminates free will in whatever scenario you can create.

Why do you need for there to be a hell and Satan?

Regards
DL

by Shirina Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:02 pm

I think if you consider hate in the Bible you will find in most cases it is telling us that it is abhorent in God's eyes and a warning that it is self destructive
and who could argue with that.

If we went by what God wants, we would be executing thousands of people every day using cruel and unusual techniques in the process. Did you watch the video of the poor girl in Afghanistan being shot to death by a mob of men accusing her of adultery? Imagine that scene being played out all over the Western world ... men and women and even children (rebellious children are to be put to death, too) lined up by the hundreds and mowed down by firing squads. Our nations would be ruled by fear and oppression ... and blood in the streets. Those who are merely shot are the lucky ones given that the Bible commands us to use stoning as the method of execution. But like the Nazis, we would find killing so many people using Bronze Age methods to be woefully inefficient. I'm sure we'd have to move up to machine gunning eventually, and then on to gas chambers to effectively murder - err, I mean execute - all of the adulterers, homosexuals, rebellious kids, irresponsible farmers, those who wear blended fabrics, shellfish eaters, and those who insist on working on Sunday such as, well, the Jews.

If we went by what God commands, we would live in a world of unspeakable darkness, an age of death and murder that would make the Holocaust look like a Sunday picnic. Is having a picnic on Sunday even permissible? Or is that considered work and thus punishable by death, too?

by astra Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:46 pm

Our nations would be ruled by fear and oppression ... and blood in the streets

... and blood in the streets, for various reasons is a statement that we cannot use under any circumstances in this country, no matter how true!

by oftenwrong Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:05 am

Defininition of HATE

hate (ht)
v. hat·ed, hat·ing, hates
v.tr.
1.
a. To feel hostility or animosity toward.
b. To detest.
2. To feel dislike or distaste for: hates washing dishes.
v.intr.
To feel hatred.
n.
1. Intense animosity or dislike; hatred.
2. An object of detestation or hatred: My pet hate is tardiness.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English haten, from Old English hatian. N., Middle English, from Old English hete.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hater n.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Definition of GOD

god (gd)
n.
1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English, from Old English; see gheu()- in Indo-European roots.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Summation: The many possible permutations of those two descriptions together render discussion either impossible or infinite.

by Guest Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:32 am

Shirina wrote:
Did you watch the video of the poor girl in Afghanistan being shot to death by a mob of men accusing her of adultery?

RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Mon 9 Jul 2012 - 18:49

Video: Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul
https://www.youtube.com/v/vCV61MYdRj8

Shirina wrote:
If we went by what God wants, we would be executing thousands of people every day using cruel and unusual techniques in the process.

If we went by what God wants… [our] nations would be ruled by fear and oppression…

If we went by what God wants… [our] nations would be ruled by… blood in the streets.

If we went by what God wants… like the Nazis, we would find killing so many people using Bronze Age methods to be woefully inefficient.

If we went by what God wants… we'd have to move up to machine gunning eventually, and then on to gas chambers to effectively murder - err, I mean execute - all of the adulterers, homosexuals, rebellious kids, irresponsible farmers, those who wear blended fabrics, shellfish eaters, and those who insist on working on Sunday such as, well, the Jews.

If we went by what God commands, we would live in a world of unspeakable darkness, an age of death and murder that would make the Holocaust look like a Sunday picnic.

If we went by what God wants, we would do as God says.

What God says:

Greek Bible

“This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.”

Matthew 17:5

If we were to do as God says, we would behave as Jesus teaches.

What Jesus teaches:

Greek Bible, Matthew Chapters 5-7:

Chapter 5:

When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after he sat down, his disciples came to him. He opened his mouth and began to teach them, saying,

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.”

“Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.”

“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.’

“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.”

“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”

“Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

“Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.”

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

“You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court, and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.”

“Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.”

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’, but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

“If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you, for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you, for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.”

“It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’, but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”

“Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the lord.’ But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil.”

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.”

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven, for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Chapter 6:

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.”

“So when yougive to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.”

“When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.”

“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.”

“Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
‘Give us this day our daily bread.
‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’”

“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.”

“Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.”

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal, for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

“The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!”

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”

“For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink, nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.”

“So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”

Chapter 7:

“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged, and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite: first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

“Ask, and it shall be given unto you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and the door shall be opened unto you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him?”

“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.”

“Enter through the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.’”

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house, and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”

When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching, for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.

Matthew Chapters 5-7

If we were to behave as Jesus teaches, we would live in a wonderful world.

by oftenwrong Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:37 am

It's unfortunate that the Scriptures don't give a clearer indication as to the likely attitude of Jesus to the modern phenomenon called COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

We can only surmise.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/collateral-damage.html

by polyglide Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:41 pm

The whole point that is being missed is if you follow the wishes of God as determined through Jesus there is no need for anyone to fear or be subject to any form of ill treatment.

The emphasis on punishment in drastic manners is to warn us of the consequences of not conducting ourselves in a proper manner and just look at the world today and see where it has got us, in not adhereing to God's will.

God did not make the rules by which all the diverse puinishments throughout the world are activated and all the atrocities, it is man that has decided which way he wants to go.

God has warned us of the consequences should we ignore the true path and we are now seeing the results of not doing so.

by Greatest I am Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:00 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Shirina wrote:
Did you watch the video of the poor girl in Afghanistan being shot to death by a mob of men accusing her of adultery?
RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Mon 9 Jul 2012 - 18:49

Video: Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul
https://www.youtube.com/v/vCV61MYdRj8
Shirina wrote:
If we went by what God wants, we would be executing thousands of people every day using cruel and unusual techniques in the process.

If we went by what God wants… [our] nations would be ruled by fear and oppression…

If we went by what God wants… [our] nations would be ruled by… blood in the streets.

If we went by what God wants… like the Nazis, we would find killing so many people using Bronze Age methods to be woefully inefficient.

If we went by what God wants… we'd have to move up to machine gunning eventually, and then on to gas chambers to effectively murder - err, I mean execute - all of the adulterers, homosexuals, rebellious kids, irresponsible farmers, those who wear blended fabrics, shellfish eaters, and those who insist on working on Sunday such as, well, the Jews.

If we went by what God commands, we would live in a world of unspeakable darkness, an age of death and murder that would make the Holocaust look like a Sunday picnic.

If we went by what God wants, we would do as God says.

What God says:

Greek Bible

“This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.”

Matthew 17:5

If we were to do as God says, we would behave as Jesus teaches.

What Jesus teaches:

Greek Bible, Matthew Chapters 5-7:

Chapter 5:

When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after he sat down, his disciples came to him. He opened his mouth and began to teach them, saying,

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.”

“Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.”

“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.’

“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.”

“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”

“Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

“Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.”

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

“You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court, and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.”

“Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.”

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’, but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

“If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you, for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you, for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.”

“It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’, but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”

“Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the lord.’ But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil.”

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.”

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven, for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Chapter 6:

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.”

“So when yougive to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.”

“When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.”

“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.”

“Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
‘Give us this day our daily bread.
‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’”

“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.”

“Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.”

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal, for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

“The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!”

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”

“For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink, nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.”

“So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”

Chapter 7:

“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged, and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite: first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

“Ask, and it shall be given unto you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and the door shall be opened unto you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him?”

“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.”

“Enter through the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.’”

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house, and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”

When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching, for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.

Matthew Chapters 5-7

If we were to behave as Jesus teaches, we would live in a wonderful world.

JESUS SAYS TO KILL ANYONE WHO CURSES HIS PARENTS - Matthew 15:4 (Jesus reaffirms Moses, who spoke for God)
"For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'"

JESUS KILLS A FIG TREE - Matthew 21:18-19
Now in the morning as he returned to the city, he hungered. And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said to it, "Let no fruit grow on thee henceforth for ever." And presently the fig tree withered away.

JESUS KILLS A FIG TREE - Mark 11:12-14, 20
The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." ... In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots.
[NOTE: Is this the action of a sane man?]

JESUS ON SEXUAL IMMORALITY, ADULTERY, AND CHILD ABUSE - Revelation 2:20-23
"You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead."

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

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2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

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3) Murdering Children

Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

Kill Old Men and Young Women

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

More Rape and Baby Killing

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy ..less babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

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4) Miscellaneous Murders

More of Samson's Murders

(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)

Peter Kills Two People

There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied, "that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)

Mass Murder

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

You Have to Kill

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

The Danites Kill the Next Town

But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB)

God Kills Some More

Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.' "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD. "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth." (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)

God Promises More Killing

I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)

The Angel of Death

My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)

Destruction of Ai

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night.

Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.

When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)

Killing at Jericho

When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)

God Kills an Extended Family

"You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'" Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him." (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)

Mass Murder

The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB)

The Angel of Death

That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)

Kill Your Neighbors

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

Kill the Family of Sinners

And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible)

Kill Followers of Other Religions

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

Murder

At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself." Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God! The LORD is God!" Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don't let a single one escape!" So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)

Kill All of Babylon

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)

Micah Kills a Whole Town

Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:05 pm

polyglide wrote:The whole point that is being missed is if you follow the wishes of God as determined through Jesus there is no need for anyone to fear or be subject to any form of ill treatment.

The emphasis on punishment in drastic manners is to warn us of the consequences of not conducting ourselves in a proper manner and just look at the world today and see where it has got us, in not adhereing to God's will.

God did not make the rules by which all the diverse puinishments throughout the world are activated and all the atrocities, it is man that has decided which way he wants to go.

God has warned us of the consequences should we ignore the true path and we are now seeing the results of not doing so.

If God warned us the way he warned A & E then the one thing we can know for sure is that he never gives full disclosure and then immorally punishes in an arbitrary way.

Regards
DL

by oftenwrong Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:12 pm

If God warned us the way he warned A & E then the one thing we can know for sure is that he never gives full disclosure and then immorally punishes in an arbitrary way.

How did a Hospital department get in here, and where else have you seen the will of God described as immoral?

Is it time to build another Ark?

by Guest Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:39 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Re: To hate Jews is to hate God
by Greatest I am on Tue 10 July 2012 - 16:00

[A great deal of text, beginning with Matthew Chapters 5-7]

Since YHVH Elohim has instructed ha adama to hear Y’shua Moshiach (Jesus he Christ), reposting of Matthew Chapters 5-7, Jesus’ teachings, commonly called the Sermon on the Mount, is entirely appropriate.

by Guest Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:22 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Re: To hate Jews is to hate God
by Greatest I am on Tue 10 July 2012 - 16:00

JESUS SAYS TO KILL ANYONE WHO CURSES HIS PARENTS - Matthew 15:4

Y’shua Moshiach, Jesus the Christ, does not say that.

Greek Bible:

Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

And he answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘he who speaks evil of father or mother is to be put to death.’”

“But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God,” he is not to honor his father or his mother.’ And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.”

“You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far away from me. But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’”

After Jesus called the crowd to Him, He said to them, “Hear and understand.”

Matthew 15:1-10 (including Matthew 15:4

It is dishonorable for one person to knowingly misquote another person. Y’shua Moshiach, Jesus the Christ, has been misquoted.

by oftenwrong Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:50 pm

Yeah, that's what I said, without the histrionics.

by Greatest I am Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:45 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
If God warned us the way he warned A & E then the one thing we can know for sure is that he never gives full disclosure and then immorally punishes in an arbitrary way.

How did a Hospital department get in here, and where else have you seen the will of God described as immoral?

Is it time to build another Ark?

Huh? Hospital?

Was it immoral for God to covet Mary, another man's woman, just so that she could produce a half breed chimera?
Was it immoral for God to be a deadbeat dad?

Regards
DL

by Guest Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:56 pm

by polyglide Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:17 am

At the present time God is punishing no one.

Men/women and even children are suffering from their own actions in many cases and the actions of the Devil in others.

You forget constantly that we have free will and what we do is at our own will.

There is no doubt God can and in certain circumstances will help those in need.

However, his pact with the Devil limits the extent to which he can go and it is this that many fail to realise.

To insult God even if you are too dim to realise the truth is bedneath contempt.

by Shirina Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:33 am

However, his pact with the Devil limits the extent to which he can go and it is this that many fail to realise.

That doesn't even make sense. Why would an all-powerful, perfectly good and just God ever make a pact with the Devil - a creature he knows to be the Prince of Lies and a master of deceit, the embodiment of evil?

This is why these stories are what they are - stories. They are designed to convey a message, not tell a history.

by polyglide Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:51 am

Oh ye of little faith and even less understanding.

If you believe in God and the Bible than you have to accept the existance of both good and evil in the worlds in which the God like beings dwell.

The Devil challenged God when God decided to make the present earth and all therein, including man, in saying he could turn every man against God and all he stood for and a time limit to which we are not privey was set.

So far he , the Devil, is making a good job in trying to do so aided and abetted by many who should know better.

by Shirina Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:09 pm

Why would God even agree to such a ridiculous bet? And why are we being victimized by the results? If you personally carry the fox to the hen house and set it loose in there, is it the hens' fault if they are eaten?

by Greatest I am Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:10 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Was it immoral for God to covet Mary, another man's woman, just so that she could produce a half breed chimera?
Was it immoral for God to be a deadbeat dad?

It is dishonorable to knowingly commit libel.

Yes.

Regards
DL

by Greatest I am Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:15 pm

polyglide wrote:At the present time God is punishing no one.

Men/women and even children are suffering from their own actions in many cases and the actions of the Devil in others.

You forget constantly that we have free will and what we do is at our own will.

There is no doubt God can and in certain circumstances will help those in need.

However, his pact with the Devil limits the extent to which he can go and it is this that many fail to realise.

To insult God even if you are too dim to realise the truth is bedneath contempt.

So God the judge who sentenced Satan to hell and did not carry out that sentence made some kind of pact with him.
How nice for Satan to trick God into his bed.

Regards
DL

by oftenwrong Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:27 pm

This discussion will continue at Sunday School at 4.00 p.m.

by polyglide Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:53 am

And no doubt the children there will have more sense than many grown ups.

by Tosh Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:22 pm

To hate Jews is to hate Jesus, we know few facts about Jesus but we know he was Jewish and he preached the Torah.

The religion of Jesus became the religion about Jesus, pity.

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