What drives the British electorate?

by Papaumau Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

Having had an interest in politics from way-back I have been watching how the face of British politics has changed over the last few years and this has encouraged me to think about what drives the British voters.

I know that a lot of us come from fixed political philosophies and people like those are liable to keep voting for the candidates that wear the correct colour of rosette rather than looking deeply into the policies of each candidate. Having said that I have also noted that many voters now come from the demographic known as the "floating voters" and it is these voters that often have the making or breaking of potential governments in their hands when they go to lay their little crosses.

The question I really want to ask is: Do the voters, ( if not voting in a traditional left or right direction ), vote for the party that promises them the most at the time rather than voting for any specific party philosophy, or are the British voters actually far better educated about what each of the parties stand for and they vote accordingly ?

In other words... Are the great British electorate BOUGHT each time that they go to the polls or in the main do they think carefully about what will be the result of where they lay their individual crosses ?

Regards....

Papaumau.

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:01 pm

Yeah, I've got that pencilled-in too!

by boatlady Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:18 pm

I'll bring the crisps

by Redflag Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:47 pm

boatlady wrote:I'll bring the crisps

What about the booze we need champers to celebrate that is the day I will drink and get blotto legless and everything in between.

by **Ivan** Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:54 pm

What does psephological mean?

tlttf. Can I suggest that you either learn how to use Google or that you buy yourself a dictionary?

Nothing trite about my remarks.

I beg to differ:-
Trite = hackneyed - banal - commonplace - trivial – threadbare.

If you can't vote for an independent Ivan, vote for UKIP

LOL. If you really want to know what I think of UKIP:-
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t799-is-it-time-that-we-took-a-closer-look-at-ukip

(By the way, it’s a new thread, so please don’t try any of your spoiling tactics – all of the moderators are well aware of your antics.)

by tlttf Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:18 am

Sad little man.

by Redflag Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:41 am

tlttf wrote:Sad little man.

Sorry tittf you got this one wrong, I have been on other forums right wing forums where sad little men do dwell !!!

by boatlady Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:47 am

Sad little man.

More to the point, why not come up with a valid argument that proves Ivan is wrong?
Last time I looked that was what was meant by 'discussion' - not personal abuse.

I'm yet to read any sensible argument on this from you.

Maybe you can come up with some links that we would find convincing.

by Redflag Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:58 pm

boatlady wrote:
Sad little man.

More to the point, why not come up with a valid argument that proves Ivan is wrong?
Last time I looked that was what was meant by 'discussion' - not personal abuse.

I'm yet to read any sensible argument on this from you.

Maybe you can come up with some links that we would find convincing.

Boatlady I was on a right wing forum and Ivan knows which one, and all the right wingers ever did was attack the few lefties on the forum with name calling and insults, and if you replied with the same the mods would suspend you, so it looks like the right wingers cannot debate because they have nothing to debate, with thanks to their gov't.

by Papaumau Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:50 pm

There has always been and will always be right and left wing policy and I have always thought that if I am a left-winger, ( which I am ), I should be one because of the understanding I have of the party I choose to support.

What has happened of recent years is that the left wing under Tony Blair has lurched over to the centre-right and this position was the one that caused his demise in the election that allowed the CON-DEM coalition to come forward.

Now that all of the main parties are trying like bears to draw the voters to them as centre-ground representatives we have to think even harder about what we want and who we are.

I see no problems with a Labour party in government that has a leader, ( Ed Miliband ), that comes from a solid Socialist background, ( His highly-intellectual father was a committed Marxist ), and that is why I hope that the new ( small "n" ) Labour government comes in as the champions of the true centre-left and unlike during the Blair hey-days the word Socialism will no longer be a swear-word.

We now have in our midst the UKIP party, that is going to bleed away votes from the Tories everywhere they appear. THAT, is a good thing as, as long as the Tories are split down the middle over Europe their following are not going to know who to vote for.

One thing is certain-sure...... Very few of the votes that will bleed away to the UKIP party are going to come from the left wing. I for one, like that idea ! Very Happy

Regards.....

Papaumau.

by sickchip Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:15 pm

Papa,

I see no problems with a Labour party in government that has a leader, ( Ed Miliband ), that comes from a solid Socialist background

Yes indeed! He must be so staunch, and resolute, in his socialist convictions he decided to support and back Blair and Brown for all those years. It must have been a real struggle for Ed not to voice his strongly held socialist principles as his party backed a neo-liberal economic agenda, invaded Iraq, presided over increasing inequality and stagnating social mobility, and helped make higher education too costly for working class people.

Such integrity of belief.

Thank goodness he's not just another careerist Labour mp riding the parliamentary gravy train, eh!

by **Ivan** Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:26 pm

Ed Miliband didn't become an MP until 2005. The Iraq war was in 2003; Ed has conceded that it was a mistake for the UK to get involved, but he was not in Parliament when the decision to invade was taken.

by sickchip Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:43 pm

...as you probably well know, Ivan, Miliband was heavily involved with the Blair/Brown crew from '93 onwards. Indeed he was part of Brown's team in '94, and became a special adviser to Brown '97-'02.

He was being 'nurtured' so to speak. He didn't have to be an mp to show support, or have influence. He was an integral part of Blair/Brown's Labour and no doubt mixed/networked with all labour's head honchos.

....if people want to think he's a socialist....

by oftenwrong Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:11 pm

.... and the sins of the Fathers shall be visited upon their Sons, yea unto the seventh generation ....

So what else is new, sickchip?

by sickchip Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:58 pm

Deary me, ow....I was only pointing out to Ivan, and others, that Ed's involvement with Blairs new Labour started well before he became an MP in 2005 - which Ivan had mentioned above........

by sickchip Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:00 pm

I didn't realise you were school principal, ow?

by oftenwrong Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:10 pm

Simply to remind ourselves that anything we might wish to say will already have been said - many, many times.

Humans have behaved like humans since our world began. Que será, será.

by skwalker1964 Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:20 pm

tlttf wrote:Sad little man.

tlttf - Ivan makes personal digs but also addresses the issues. I know you're intelligent enough to know that the word 'just' in my admonition was key - posts just making personal digs are off-topic and unproductive.

I'm keeping it friendly, but any more posts that are just insults and I'll have to take some more substantial action. Please take the friendly tip and keep to the topic!

by Papaumau Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:15 pm

sickchip wrote:Papa,

I see no problems with a Labour party in government that has a leader, ( Ed Miliband ), that comes from a solid Socialist background

Yes indeed! He must be so staunch, and resolute, in his socialist convictions he decided to support and back Blair and Brown for all those years. It must have been a real struggle for Ed not to voice his strongly held socialist principles as his party backed a neo-liberal economic agenda, invaded Iraq, presided over increasing inequality and stagnating social mobility, and helped make higher education too costly for working class people.

Such integrity of belief.

Thank goodness he's not just another careerist Labour mp riding the parliamentary gravy train, eh!

Sarcasm aside "sickchip"......

While it is true that both Ed and brother David did work within the Blairite dogma, it has come to be known - by information straight from "Ed" the "horse's" mouth, ( sorry for the pun ), that while David Miliband WAS a total Blairite, Ed Miliband was not.

Anyone who knows anything about politics will know that if any party member wants to survive by following any particular line, they have to do what their conscience tells them, very gently, so as not to waken the sleeping beasts within. That was why Ed Miliband did not push his traditional Socialist background or beliefs too strongly while he was just another worker in the Labour party.

The fact that he was a true Socialist was not lost to the trade unions that backed him in the leadership campaign and that was one of the main reasons why it was Ed and not David that was eventually elected to the leadership role. Those of us that are true Socialists have to recognise this and as Socialists we have to give Ed Miliband the support that he needs to be able to break away from the dark days of Blairism.

I honestly believe that that is what is going to happen in the months before the next general election and that afterwards we are going to see a refreshed Labour party - AND GOVERNMENT - that holds the traditions of the great Labour movement close to their hearts once again.

Regards....

Papaumau.

by oftenwrong Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:43 pm

The Government Whip has its reflection in the party of opposition, so any ambitious politician would be wise to echo the views of his betters in the Party until in a stronger position. Boat-rockers and whistle-blowers are unlikely to be favoured when Ministerial jobs are being dispensed, therefore in politics as in business The Boss is always right.

However, PMQs descending into the weekly Punch-and-Judy farce which it has now become does not elevate any of the participants.

by Redflag Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:21 pm

oftenwrong wrote:The Government Whip has its reflection in the party of opposition, so any ambitious politician would be wise to echo the views of his betters in the Party until in a stronger position. Boat-rockers and whistle-blowers are unlikely to be favoured when Ministerial jobs are being dispensed, therefore in politics as in business The Boss is always right.

However, PMQs descending into the weekly Punch-and-Judy farce which it has now become does not elevate any of the participants.

You forgot to add OW Cameron NEVER answers the questions asked at PMQs, reason he has not got the answers that is why the economy has been flatlining for the last 3 years.

by blueturando Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:32 pm

What questions did he not answer Red?

by oftenwrong Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:15 pm

What questions did he not answer Red?

http://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2013/march/prime-ministers-questions-6-march-2013/

by skwalker1964 Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:58 pm

blueturando wrote:What questions did he not answer Red?

I'm honestly trying - and failing - to think of a question that he's answered which wasn't from his own side. SOP for a Labour question is to answer a different question that might be tangentially related to the one actually asked, or to say something along the lines of 'I'm not taking any lectures on [take your pick] from the party opposite who [I can claim] did something even worse' and so on.

by boatlady Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:40 pm

Makes you wonder if the current system of elected democracy is really fit for purpose.
Let's just pause for a moment and consider what these jokers are being paid.

by oftenwrong Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:16 pm

or, given the actual outcome. WHY are they being paid?

by boatlady Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:39 am

I'd have got the sack if I'd produced such poor outcomes for my employers

by Redflag Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:12 am

blueturando wrote:What questions did he not answer Red?

Any question that Ed Miliband asks him blue, or for that matter any question coming from the opposition reason he does noat answer because he does not know the answer in other words he is nothing but a BRAINLESS WONDER.

by Papaumau Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:19 pm

oftenwrong wrote:The Government Whip has its reflection in the party of opposition, so any ambitious politician would be wise to echo the views of his betters in the Party until in a stronger position. Boat-rockers and whistle-blowers are unlikely to be favoured when Ministerial jobs are being dispensed, therefore in politics as in business The Boss is always right.

And for exactly that reason Ed Balls is still in a shadow cabinet position even although he is still also a Blairite.

It will be a hard and uphill struggle for Ed Miliband as party leader and Prime Minister to get rid of all of the Blairites in his cabinet, but, I am hoping that that is exactly what he will do.

Regards....

Papaumau.

by Papaumau Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:14 pm

As I see it, it seems that many governments of the past have come into power simply because the people at the bottom end of society don't usually vote.

Now that this coalition government - bolstered by the traitorous Lib-Dems - have spent the last year or more attacking this demographic, does anybody think that the poor and the sick and the old and the disabled, that have been deliberately targeted by this government will finally get up off their behinds and vote this cruel lot down ?

When one considers that what with the dastardly attacks that the ATOS hit-men have made on these people and that the introduction of the bedroom tax will also hit the same section of society, do the members of Cutting Edge think that this particular "worm" is going to turn at last ?

If not, what should be done to ensure that these people get out of their apathy and vote for what they need out of their government ?

Regards....

Papaumau.

by **Phil Hornby** Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:36 pm

If the frightening prospect of a continuation of a Tory Government doesn't get people exercised come 2015, then I fear that nothing will save us from ourselves... Shocked

by Redflag Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:41 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:If the frightening prospect of a continuation of a Tory Government doesn't get people exercised come 2015, then I fear that nothing will save us from ourselves...

I think PH that this Tory gov't and all its unfair cuts on the poor with tax breaks for those earning over £150,000 and upwards should do the trick and get them off their butts and out to the polling station, because by the time 2015 comes there will not be a person around that has not been affected by the cuts, unless you're in the top 10% of the UK.

by **astradt1** Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:40 pm

The problem is the Tory's are now playing their ....It's all the fault of the Immigrants.....Trump card.

It worked for a 1930's Government in a European country...

They are aiming this card at the lower paid.....with their excuse that benefits have to be cut due to the cost because of Immigrants, Wages are low because of Immigrants, There is no social housing because of Immigrants......

You never hear the Government complain about the number of Russian Billionaire Immigrants or the Number of foreign Millionaire Footballers who have come to this country and if anyone thinks that these groups of very rich pay their fair share of taxes they are deluding themselves......

But the 'poor' will believe anything that is published in the likes of the Sun and Star........

While the middle classes believe what the Star's sister paper the Express repeats from the Star.......

by sickchip Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:59 pm

What, or who, do you suggest the poor should vote for?

No political party is prepared to represent them. All politicians since 1979 have screwed the poor and increased inequality.

The poor don't need to vote. The poor need to unite and riot.

by Redflag Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:29 pm

astradt1 wrote:The problem is the Tory's are now playing their ....It's all the fault of the Immigrants.....Trump card.

It worked for a 1930's Government in a European country...

They are aiming this card at the lower paid.....with their excuse that benefits have to be cut due to the cost because of Immigrants, Wages are low because of Immigrants, There is no social housing because of Immigrants......

You never hear the Government complain about the number of Russian Billionaire Immigrants or the Number of foreign Millionaire Footballers who have come to this country and if anyone thinks that these groups of very rich pay their fair share of taxes they are deluding themselves......

But the 'poor' will believe anything that is published in the likes of the Sun and Star........

While the middle classes believe what the Star's sister paper the Express repeats from the Star.......

I never touch the Sun or the Star or Express if I want to read shit I will sit in the toilet and read my ANDREX

by **Phil Hornby** Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:42 pm

What drives the British electorate? - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQga9_8YWFRqwcfp0lS0HZnRju1dDZeffKfi3i0pjkNrcb9jaHx

(gettyimages)

" Hey, mate - pass us a couple of sheets of the Daily Mail would ya? I seem to have run out of the cloakroom stationery..."

by Redflag Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:18 pm

NICE ONE PH

by Papaumau Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:57 pm

sickchip wrote:What, or who, do you suggest the poor should vote for?

No political party is prepared to represent them. All politicians since 1979 have screwed the poor and increased inequality.

The poor don't need to vote. The poor need to unite and riot.

It is just too easy to say that the political types don't care about the poor and the people who live at the bottom end of society and it is also too easy to encourage the same people to not vote because their votes will be wasted.

If we do not apply democracy then all that is going to be left will be anarchy and we all know - or should know - that nobody benefits from anarchy.

It is also too easy to try to stir up the poor into rioting as a method of complaint, but all that will happen in that situation will be that, just like last summer, these rioting folk will be slapped down by the police and will finish up with a criminal record and little else.

I mean, just look at what happened in many of the European countries when the people rose up and took to the streets because of the severe austerity measures that were being used. They had their say, but they gained nothing from these riots.

My suggestion is that we should vote - within the democracy that often gets taken for granted in the so-called "free" West - for the political party that is closest to what we are so that at least they will know how we are thinking and what we are thinking about, and what we actually need from them.

As a confirmed Socialist, I have to suggest that there is now only ONE party left in Britain that thinks as we do and that party is a refreshed and modernised LABOUR party. ( Not New-Labour BTW ).

Our votes would be wasted anywhere else !

Regards....

Papaumau.

by Redflag Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:30 pm

Papaumau wrote:
sickchip wrote:What, or who, do you suggest the poor should vote for?

No political party is prepared to represent them. All politicians since 1979 have screwed the poor and increased inequality.

The poor don't need to vote. The poor need to unite and riot.

It is just too easy to say that the political types don't care about the poor and the people who live at the bottom end of society and it is also too easy to encourage the same people to not vote because their votes will be wasted.

If we do not apply democracy then all that is going to be left will be anarchy and we all know - or should know - that nobody benefits from anarchy.

It is also too easy to try to stir up the poor into rioting as a method of complaint, but all that will happen in that situation will be that, just like last summer, these rioting folk will be slapped down by the police and will finish up with a criminal record and little else.

I mean, just look at what happened in many of the European countries when the people rose up and took to the streets because of the severe austerity measures that were being used. They had their say, but they gained nothing from these riots.

My suggestion is that we should vote - within the democracy that often gets taken for granted in the so-called "free" West - for the political party that is closest to what we are so that at least they will know how we are thinking and what we are thinking about, and what we actually need from them.

As a confirmed Socialist, I have to suggest that there is now only ONE party left in Britain that thinks as we do and that party is a refreshed and modernised LABOUR party. ( Not New-Labour BTW ).

Our votes would be wasted anywhere else !

Regards....

Papaumau.

Papaumau i whole heartily agree with what you have said there is only one party that it is SAFE for any sane person to vote for and that is the FAIR For All Labour Party

by tlttf Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:40 pm

Sounds good Papa, will you come back and tell me when we have a refreshed and modernised labour party. At present we are offered the same from the professional politicians of all parties, anybody that believes the present labour party is any different to the socio/lib presently taking up valuable space in parliament is deluding themselves.

by oftenwrong Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:30 pm

Papaumau wrote:
It is just too easy to say that the political types don't care about the poor and the people who live at the bottom end of society and it is also too easy to encourage the same people to not vote because their votes will be wasted.

As a confirmed Socialist, I have to suggest that there is now only ONE party left in Britain that thinks as we do and that party is a refreshed and modernised LABOUR party. ( Not New-Labour BTW ).

Our votes would be wasted anywhere else !

Regards....

Papaumau.

In today's Independent Owen Jones savours the taste of heresy in commenting, "The Left has been forced into an entirely defensive posture. "Stop Privatisation", "defend our NHS", "stop the cuts", savecomprehensiveeducation". Contrasted with booming right-wing .... Policy Exchange, Taxpayers Alliance and Conservative Home.

.... CLASS is a think-tank set up by Trade Unions .... The People's Assembly due to meet on 22 June in Westminster General Hall, aims to unite all opponents of austerity in one movement.

Watch that space.

by bobby Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:39 pm

Long overdue.

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