Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
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Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
First topic message reminder :
Here is a news item from North Yorkshire which never made it onto the national headlines
A York-based practice has written to its patients offering them a range of minor treatments privately, claiming they are not funded by the local NHS.
Doctors' leaders said this could be the start of a worrying trend due to the squeeze on finances and NHS overhaul.
The letter, seen by the BBC, said local health chiefs had stopped funding a range of services, but added they could still have them done privately at a number of clinics, including one owned by the practice.
These included removing skin tags from £56.30 to treating benign tumours for £243.20.
Dr Richard Vautrey, of the British Medical Association, added: "The dire finances of many trusts means that many more NHS treatments are likely to become unavailable in the future".
Here is a news item from North Yorkshire which never made it onto the national headlines
A York-based practice has written to its patients offering them a range of minor treatments privately, claiming they are not funded by the local NHS.
Doctors' leaders said this could be the start of a worrying trend due to the squeeze on finances and NHS overhaul.
The letter, seen by the BBC, said local health chiefs had stopped funding a range of services, but added they could still have them done privately at a number of clinics, including one owned by the practice.
These included removing skin tags from £56.30 to treating benign tumours for £243.20.
Dr Richard Vautrey, of the British Medical Association, added: "The dire finances of many trusts means that many more NHS treatments are likely to become unavailable in the future".
witchfinder- Forum Founder
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
by oftenwrong Today at 11:19 am
With the passage of the NHS Reform Bill through Parliament, one positive thing at least emerges.
Everything that goes wrong now can be blamed on the correct people responsible.
Oh. Come on. You know that anything that goes wrong will be down to mismanagement on the 'shop' floor. Not the bosses. They're never wrong.
With the passage of the NHS Reform Bill through Parliament, one positive thing at least emerges.
Everything that goes wrong now can be blamed on the correct people responsible.
Oh. Come on. You know that anything that goes wrong will be down to mismanagement on the 'shop' floor. Not the bosses. They're never wrong.
trevorw2539- Posts : 1374
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
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Phil Hornby- Blogger
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
.... but I'll leave you to provide supper!
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
GPs preparing to take charge of £60bn of NHS funds have been found to have shareholdings in private healthcare firms, prompting alarm about family doctors profiting from direct conflicts of interest.
Fresh research shows that in 22 of the new clinical commissioning groups (CCGs), at least half and sometimes all of the GPs that dominate their boards have a personal financial interest in a private or other non-NHS provider. Guardian report extract.
This is absolutely shameful. There is a duty IMO for the media as a whole to expose this with headlines. No chance of that with a Tory dominated government. Unlike when Brown was PM, all and sundry was exposed and most of it lies and distortion of the truth.
Fresh research shows that in 22 of the new clinical commissioning groups (CCGs), at least half and sometimes all of the GPs that dominate their boards have a personal financial interest in a private or other non-NHS provider. Guardian report extract.
This is absolutely shameful. There is a duty IMO for the media as a whole to expose this with headlines. No chance of that with a Tory dominated government. Unlike when Brown was PM, all and sundry was exposed and most of it lies and distortion of the truth.
Mel- Posts : 1703
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Remember back in the 1980's, when the thatch thought up care in the community whereby many of the large Psychiatric hospitals were closed as it was seen that it would be better of the patients to live in the community?
Many did not end up in the community they were just transferred to private nursing homes many of which were owned by the very same psychitrists when had looked after them in hospital........
Is there going to be any difference this time?
Many did not end up in the community they were just transferred to private nursing homes many of which were owned by the very same psychitrists when had looked after them in hospital........
Is there going to be any difference this time?
astradt1- Moderator
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Why all the cynicism? Surely the Caring Tories have nothing but the Public's interest in mind.
"Care in the Community" resulted in a number of horrible murders of innocent people by nutters who were released with a quick prayer and some medicine. But, Hey! You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.
"Care in the Community" resulted in a number of horrible murders of innocent people by nutters who were released with a quick prayer and some medicine. But, Hey! You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
But, Hey! You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.
OH yes yer can!!
\/
\/
\/
A potato omelette!
astra- Deceased
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Does Jamie Oliver know that?
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Meanwhile, in the Psychiatric Unit...
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" When did you develop this condition whereby you became a compulsive liar...?"
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" It started when I decided I wanted to be Prime Minister..."
Phil Hornby- Blogger
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
The privatisation of the NHS is now underway.
No doubt a Tory will pop up in a while and, as usual, distort the facts by saying that privatisation started under Labour. Well yes, under Labour 2% of the beds in an NHS hospital could be private, a figure that the Tories have now increased to 49%. Labour bought the services of the private sector to shorten waiting lists by, for example, providing scans. It’s all very different now. The Tories aren’t using the private sector to support the NHS, they’re using it to replace it, as these extracts from an article by Max Pemberton demonstrate:-
“On March 27 the NHS Reform Bill received Royal Assent and became law. With the ink barely dry on Her Majesty’s signature, the carving up of the NHS has begun. Virgin Care has won a £500 million contract to provide community services across Surrey and began running these services, as well as the county’s prison healthcare, on April 1. Branson’s company becomes one of the first of many vultures to start picking over the rich, tender flesh of the NHS.
What the Virgin Care takeover in Surrey really exposes are the two fundamental lies that have been peddled by the government over the past year. The first is the flat denial that the Bill represented any sort of privatisation of the NHS, despite it being obvious to anyone who read it that this is precisely what it was. Even the doctors and nurses who work in Surrey’s hospitals and healthcare centres taken over by Virgin Care are no longer employed by the NHS and instead have had to become corporate lackeys. They had no choice: if they didn’t want to work for the company when it took over services from the NHS, their only option was to resign.
The second thing this exposes is the lunacy of the concept of choice within a nationalised healthcare system. What real choice did the people of Surrey have in who provided their community health services? The answer: none. The choice was made by unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats. Increasingly, the details of these decisions and the contracts that are drawn up are deemed commercially sensitive, so we are not privy to what is happening to our NHS and our money."
For the full article:-
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No doubt a Tory will pop up in a while and, as usual, distort the facts by saying that privatisation started under Labour. Well yes, under Labour 2% of the beds in an NHS hospital could be private, a figure that the Tories have now increased to 49%. Labour bought the services of the private sector to shorten waiting lists by, for example, providing scans. It’s all very different now. The Tories aren’t using the private sector to support the NHS, they’re using it to replace it, as these extracts from an article by Max Pemberton demonstrate:-
“On March 27 the NHS Reform Bill received Royal Assent and became law. With the ink barely dry on Her Majesty’s signature, the carving up of the NHS has begun. Virgin Care has won a £500 million contract to provide community services across Surrey and began running these services, as well as the county’s prison healthcare, on April 1. Branson’s company becomes one of the first of many vultures to start picking over the rich, tender flesh of the NHS.
What the Virgin Care takeover in Surrey really exposes are the two fundamental lies that have been peddled by the government over the past year. The first is the flat denial that the Bill represented any sort of privatisation of the NHS, despite it being obvious to anyone who read it that this is precisely what it was. Even the doctors and nurses who work in Surrey’s hospitals and healthcare centres taken over by Virgin Care are no longer employed by the NHS and instead have had to become corporate lackeys. They had no choice: if they didn’t want to work for the company when it took over services from the NHS, their only option was to resign.
The second thing this exposes is the lunacy of the concept of choice within a nationalised healthcare system. What real choice did the people of Surrey have in who provided their community health services? The answer: none. The choice was made by unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats. Increasingly, the details of these decisions and the contracts that are drawn up are deemed commercially sensitive, so we are not privy to what is happening to our NHS and our money."
For the full article:-
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Blessed are the politicians, for they shall make theft legal.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Here is a very good article on the NHS reforms
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Yes - it is in The Tribune but its hardly known for been extremist, far left or millitant.
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Yes - it is in The Tribune but its hardly known for been extremist, far left or millitant.
witchfinder- Forum Founder
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Many thanks Witchfinder for that link which is excellent.
This extract reveals the truth as to what this Tory dominated
government is up to.--
There should be an inquiry to discover how many private health companies could have influenced the passage of the Health Bill. We need to know how many Members of Parliament have interests in private health companies. We already know that John Nash, the former boss of Care UK, which will be a major gainer under the new legislation, and his wife, Caroline, donated £200,000 to the Conservative Party before the 20120 general election, including £21,000 to Andrew Lansley’s private office. Approximately 40 peers who voted on the Health Bill are known to have interests in the private health sector.
Yes let's have an inquiry. Will it happen? no chance whatsoever of course.
This extract reveals the truth as to what this Tory dominated
government is up to.--
There should be an inquiry to discover how many private health companies could have influenced the passage of the Health Bill. We need to know how many Members of Parliament have interests in private health companies. We already know that John Nash, the former boss of Care UK, which will be a major gainer under the new legislation, and his wife, Caroline, donated £200,000 to the Conservative Party before the 20120 general election, including £21,000 to Andrew Lansley’s private office. Approximately 40 peers who voted on the Health Bill are known to have interests in the private health sector.
Yes let's have an inquiry. Will it happen? no chance whatsoever of course.
Mel- Posts : 1703
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
The Emerging Face of Healthcare
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Phil Hornby- Blogger
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Camer-con's election pledge in jeopardy as report reveals patients waiting 6% longer and fewer receiving planned operations.
Research by the Patients Association also shows that fewer patients are undergoing planned operations such as joint replacements, cataract removal and hernia repairs, as the NHS tries to make £20bn of efficiency savings at a time when demand for healthcare is growing.
Absolutely disgusting and yet it was very predictable. Yet another Camer- CON along with ALL the others.
Research by the Patients Association also shows that fewer patients are undergoing planned operations such as joint replacements, cataract removal and hernia repairs, as the NHS tries to make £20bn of efficiency savings at a time when demand for healthcare is growing.
Absolutely disgusting and yet it was very predictable. Yet another Camer- CON along with ALL the others.
Mel- Posts : 1703
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Changes to waiting times from 2010 to 2011
Knee replacement 89 days (2010) - 99 days (2011)
Hernia operation 70 days (2010) - 78 days (2011)
Hip replacements - Cataract - hysterectomy - gall stones - all procedures show rising waiting times, of the hospitals surveyed there were over 18,000 fewer of these procedures carried out in 2011 than in 2010.
Amongst the many people who have voiced grave concerns at these figures are Professor Norman Williams ( president, Royal College of Surgeons ), Clare Eaglen ( Royal National Institute for the Blind ).
But then I suppose those waiting in pain do have a choice, they could go private - IF they have enough money.
Knee replacement 89 days (2010) - 99 days (2011)
Hernia operation 70 days (2010) - 78 days (2011)
Hip replacements - Cataract - hysterectomy - gall stones - all procedures show rising waiting times, of the hospitals surveyed there were over 18,000 fewer of these procedures carried out in 2011 than in 2010.
Amongst the many people who have voiced grave concerns at these figures are Professor Norman Williams ( president, Royal College of Surgeons ), Clare Eaglen ( Royal National Institute for the Blind ).
But then I suppose those waiting in pain do have a choice, they could go private - IF they have enough money.
witchfinder- Forum Founder
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
"But then I suppose those waiting in pain do have a choice, they could go private - IF they have enough money."
That's what it's all about witchy, get everyone to go private. If one cant afford to then suffer or die is the real Tory ideology.
That's what it's all about witchy, get everyone to go private. If one cant afford to then suffer or die is the real Tory ideology.
Mel- Posts : 1703
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
I don't mind admitting that when the H&SC bill got the royal nod I sobbed my eyes out all day. I'm still in shock at what they've done to our NHS with the help of those spineless lickspittle lib demon MP's! I hope Claire Raynor comes to Cameron in one of his dreams about Maggot Thatcher and sticks a bramble bush straight up his glory hole! And one more thing, if labour don't repeal this bill when they next form a government I'll be doing the same thing to Ed Milliband, IN PERSON!!!!
Adele Carlyon- Posts : 412
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Mel wrote:"But then I suppose those waiting in pain do have a choice, they could go private - IF they have enough money."
That's what it's all about witchy, get everyone to go private. If one cant afford to then suffer or die is the real Tory ideology.
The cost of "Going Private" is seriously eye-watering. If you don't have a six-figure income or lifetime savings, there needs to be a better reason than simply preferring a private room. You will be paying for every last bandage and aspirin, because NHS funds are no longer paying. Meals will be a delight if you are well enough to enjoy them - but you are paying restaurant prices. The Surgeons, anaesthetists and Nurses also work in the NHS, but will charge you handsomely for looking after you. The quality of care and treatment is unlikely to be any different from what you would receive in the local NHS Hospital, except that if something does go wrong, that's where they'll ship you off to anyway. The private ambulance is not free either.
Stay well!
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
" I hope Claire Raynor comes to Cameron in one of his dreams about Maggot Thatcher and sticks a bramble bush straight up his glory hole!"
I always get a warm feeling inside when I see evidence of good old British Fair Play at work...
I always get a warm feeling inside when I see evidence of good old British Fair Play at work...
Phil Hornby- Blogger
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Phil, don't you think there is a nouance of Asian and Latino in there as well?
It's always nice to see multiculturalism at work!!
It's always nice to see multiculturalism at work!!
astra- Deceased
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
LOL
Sorry, but they piddle me right off! I dream of doing terrible unspeakable things to CaMORON and Co!!! Lets just say it involves a barrell of brine and a cheese grater!! :affraid:
Sorry, but they piddle me right off! I dream of doing terrible unspeakable things to CaMORON and Co!!! Lets just say it involves a barrell of brine and a cheese grater!! :affraid:
Adele Carlyon- Posts : 412
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
A friend who hails from Wigan, when upset at someone, says, I'll pull his liver out with a spoon, coz it'll hurt!
astra- Deceased
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
What can I say Astra? We're very passionate people! haha
Adele Carlyon- Posts : 412
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
A pull-through with a Christmas Tree should see 'em put right.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Adele Carlyon- Posts : 412
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
OW Quote "The quality of care and treatment is unlikely to be any different from what you would receive in the local NHS Hospital, except that if something does go wrong, that's where they'll ship you off to anyway."
Correct sir. The small print is something else in the contract. It must be digested carefully to find that much is not covered and only one operation for the same condition is allowed. Most of the wealthy use the NHSwhere and when they can.
Don't forget they like to hold on to their cash even though many make money easily upon the backs of others and avoiding tax and paying peanuts to their staff. Of course there are the others who sit on their ar5es reaping the benefits of massive inheritances.
That's fine as long as the do not look down their snooty Tory noses at those less fortunate.
Correct sir. The small print is something else in the contract. It must be digested carefully to find that much is not covered and only one operation for the same condition is allowed. Most of the wealthy use the NHSwhere and when they can.
Don't forget they like to hold on to their cash even though many make money easily upon the backs of others and avoiding tax and paying peanuts to their staff. Of course there are the others who sit on their ar5es reaping the benefits of massive inheritances.
That's fine as long as the do not look down their snooty Tory noses at those less fortunate.
Mel- Posts : 1703
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Such a shame that Labour opened the flood gate on immigration (shipped in their future voters). I'm amazed that people haven't worked out that there aren't enough tax payers left to sustain the ever wasteful NHS in it's present form. By the by, did you know that 43% of hospital births in London was to immigrant families, what next, blame the lack of schools on the coalition. Surely the previous incompetents should have made arrangements for the shyte were in now?
tlttf- Banned
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
"Such a shame that Labour opened the flood gate on immigration "
How wrong and misinformed can you be? If you wish to place the blame somewhere, blame the bloody EU ruling.
The bloke you voted for toff Camar-Con has failed to stem the tide making false promises. The only immigrants that he can stop coming into this country are those who are qualified professionals etc that the country need and they are a small minority in comparison with those forced upon us by the EU. Camer-Con again, playing to the racists.
The "shyte" we are NOW in is far worse than it was before people like you made the error of voting for the Tories into power.
Are you suggesting that ALL immigrants do not pay tax? We were debating the fact that hospital waiting lists are up and operations are down and that privatisation of our NHS is iminent and not IMIGRATION or "lack of schools" thank you.
How wrong and misinformed can you be? If you wish to place the blame somewhere, blame the bloody EU ruling.
The bloke you voted for toff Camar-Con has failed to stem the tide making false promises. The only immigrants that he can stop coming into this country are those who are qualified professionals etc that the country need and they are a small minority in comparison with those forced upon us by the EU. Camer-Con again, playing to the racists.
The "shyte" we are NOW in is far worse than it was before people like you made the error of voting for the Tories into power.
Are you suggesting that ALL immigrants do not pay tax? We were debating the fact that hospital waiting lists are up and operations are down and that privatisation of our NHS is iminent and not IMIGRATION or "lack of schools" thank you.
Mel- Posts : 1703
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Throughout history, whenever Tories are in a particularly tight corner they will raise the subject of immigrants. It is their default comfort blanket to assuage the embarrassment of being found - yet again - to be corrupt and clueless when in power. It will never change. The only answer is to relieve them of their customary shame by ensuring that they get no closer to government than they ever do to telling the truth...
Phil Hornby- Blogger
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Something cropped up in the news today which has gone almost unoticed
I refer to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury "Danny Alexander" and his announcement that "all departments must identify 5% of their spending to act as their departments contingency fund".
Is this a veil for even more cuts but disguised as something else, and no mention that the health budget and the NHS would be exempt from these new rules.
If 5% of spending is identified by each government department including the Department of Health, then many observers will conclude that these identified projects are classed as low priority and ripe for axing, and remember that the promise was that NHS spending would not be cut.
I feel we will hear more about this issue in the days ahead, there is the potential for this to be quite explosive and very damaging for the coalition if there is any hint of spending cuts to the NHS budget.
Ed & Co - get onto this straight away, there could be some government explaining to do.
I refer to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury "Danny Alexander" and his announcement that "all departments must identify 5% of their spending to act as their departments contingency fund".
Is this a veil for even more cuts but disguised as something else, and no mention that the health budget and the NHS would be exempt from these new rules.
If 5% of spending is identified by each government department including the Department of Health, then many observers will conclude that these identified projects are classed as low priority and ripe for axing, and remember that the promise was that NHS spending would not be cut.
I feel we will hear more about this issue in the days ahead, there is the potential for this to be quite explosive and very damaging for the coalition if there is any hint of spending cuts to the NHS budget.
Ed & Co - get onto this straight away, there could be some government explaining to do.
witchfinder- Forum Founder
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Much goes "unoticed" WF I am afraid to say. There is so much damaging material out there against this shambles of a so called government which goes unreported for one reason or another. I suspect the Tory orientated powers that be use gagging methods.
Mel- Posts : 1703
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Hello Phil. You are so correct in what you say and tlttf confirms it.
Mel- Posts : 1703
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
A commentator on BBC's "Today" programme described the Government as
"in full Monty Python mode" at the moment.
"in full Monty Python mode" at the moment.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
An Immigrant Couple = 2 immigrants. An immigrant couple who have a dozen kids in Britain still one equalls 2 Immigrants, the dozen kids are British.
bobby- Posts : 1939
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Anyone born in Britain is British.
Is there a problem with that?
Is there a problem with that?
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
Why is anyone ever surprised to discover that a Politician has lied?
It's how they work.
It's how they work.
oftenwrong- Sage
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
There are lies, and then there are lies that alter the fabric of a nation and kill thousands of citizens.
Chivnail- Posts : 20
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Re: Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?
So. Circle the private sector company who now run Hinchingbrooke Hospital will be able to keep the 1st £2m of any annual surplus they make, and a percentage of further profits.
And the hospital is £40m in debt. I guess you and I will be paying that off.
Should be interesting to watch waiting times, staff levels and quality of service.
In the meantime I'm setting up a new service for the poor and needy. It's called the Witchdoctors Home Medicine Service. Practioners must be experienced in bone throwing and reading, and fluent in the language of MumboJumbo. Joining fee, 2 white elephants. Apply now.
And the hospital is £40m in debt. I guess you and I will be paying that off.
Should be interesting to watch waiting times, staff levels and quality of service.
In the meantime I'm setting up a new service for the poor and needy. It's called the Witchdoctors Home Medicine Service. Practioners must be experienced in bone throwing and reading, and fluent in the language of MumboJumbo. Joining fee, 2 white elephants. Apply now.
trevorw2539- Posts : 1374
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