Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

First topic message reminder :

Here is a news item from North Yorkshire which never made it onto the national headlines

A York-based practice has written to its patients offering them a range of minor treatments privately, claiming they are not funded by the local NHS.

Doctors' leaders said this could be the start of a worrying trend due to the squeeze on finances and NHS overhaul.

The letter, seen by the BBC, said local health chiefs had stopped funding a range of services, but added they could still have them done privately at a number of clinics, including one owned by the practice.

These included removing skin tags from £56.30 to treating benign tumours for £243.20.

Dr Richard Vautrey, of the British Medical Association, added: "The dire finances of many trusts means that many more NHS treatments are likely to become unavailable in the future".

All designed to minimise direct face-to-face contact wherever possible

The cost will all be on the side of the patients who will be increasingly deprived of opportunities to actually talk to a human being about their symptoms

Nothing is safe under a Conservative Government. What they are doing with the health service is the same as they did to all of our ex Nationalised industries, they starve them of funds and after a suitable number of poor people have died they tell us "The NHS just isn't working and we have a plan to cure all its ills. They sell it of to private health/money care companies, force everyone into getting health care insurance, hey presto problem solved, the order will go out not to publish anything that will make the health care of the UK look anything but brilliant.
The worst thing is, the British voter will again be taken in by them.

How your GP is paid to stop you going to hospital

From an article by Victoria Ward and Laura Donnelly:-

Family doctors are being offered bonuses of thousands of pounds to reduce the number of cancer patients sent to hospital. GPs are being paid up to £11,000 to stay within targets for outpatient referrals and follow-ups, which can include two-week cancer waits and emergency admissions. (The UK has the worst survival rates for cancer in Western Europe, largely due to late diagnosis.)

Dr Maureen Baker, chairman of the Royal College of GPs, said: “This is a preposterous idea. It is deeply insulting and demeaning – as well as being highly unethical – to suggest that offering GPs money will change the way in which we care for our patients. Most worryingly, it undermines the doctor-patient relationship and the trust that underpins it.”

For the whole article:-
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Tax credits stopped for single Mum who "had the Post Office as a lodger".

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Government departments understaffed - making frequent mistakes and then people lose access to their benefits.
Experienced staff replaced by 'temps' who don't understand the rules.

In mental health - local psychiatric service lost 10 in-patient beds to 'efficiency' savings - have been in continuous meltdown since - four patients on constant observations on a ward of 15 - it'll all end in tears

The lessons of History

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2. Cutting student nurse numbers led to a year-on-year
reduction of new entrants from 18,980 in 1990/91 to 12,000 in 1997/98, which was a major factor contributing to an acknowledged nursing shortage later in the decade.

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Trust development report states that the NHS faces it is in its worst financial state for a generation............

It seems that a 'generation' is between 20 to 25 years, so that would make it that it is as bad now as in 1990 to 1995......

Which party was in government then?.........

good point

Sooner or later the sheer numbers of ageing patients will bring gridlock to the NHS and ancillary Care provision. What politician is going to suggest culling the elderly to deal with the problem?

Or will they perhaps scrap Trident to balance the books?

More proof that the Tories really do love the NHS.....

Tory health minister deliberately blocks law to give NHS cheap drugs when patents expire

A Conservative health minister has deliberately blocked a new law to provide cheap and effective drugs for the NHS by championing medicines whose patents have expired.

Alistair Burt spoke for nearly half an hour to “filibuster” the proposed Off-Patent Drugs Bill, a plan that had cross-party support from backbenchers.

Because the proposed law is not supported by the Government it only has a limited amount of time to be debated in Parliament, or has to be shelved.

Mr Burt deliberately used up the bill’s time by speaking at length for 27 minutes, despite heckles and jeering from Labour, SNP, and Conservative benches.

The proposed law would have compelled the Government to seek new licences for medicines that were not covered by patents but which could benefit patients.

Currently, such medicines tend to go un-licensed because there is no profit incentive for pharmaceutical companies to bring forward an application for a licence.

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Breathtaking hypocrisy from Shirley Williams, who persuaded reluctant Lib Dem peers to vote for Lansley's Heath and Social Care Act in 2012:-

George Osborne has 10 days left to save the NHS

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The question is simply answered.

Do you want your illness or injury to be treated by a Junior hospital Doctor who's been working for many hours at a rate of pay which is derisory for the responsibility they carry?

There may shortly be available a handy list of all Mr Cameron's "Clarifications" which he has either reversed or were simply platitudes to pacify the listener.

people at the acute mental health unit where I work are very stressed - and I do believe patient care is suffering somewhat - no-one seems to have the time any more to THINK

So the Doctors have shown that they WILL strike, and talks should resume today. The worst case scenario is a further 48-hour withdrawal of non-emergency labour, and possibly a final total walkout on February 10th. if the negotiations end without any agreement.

An un-named Consultant Doctor has said "In the event of a total shut-down, a patient could die."

People do die in hospital all the time of course, even under full staffing, but such remarks provide an accurate forecast of the hysterical media coverage which could be expected. The BMA organisers would do well to prepare figures of the number of hospital deaths on a typical February day in previous years, for comparison if necessary.

I am not clear on whether 'junior' doctors receive 'anti-social' hours payments for working weekends and hours after 8pm or if it is really 'overtime' payments as the media keeps talking about.........

Of course using the term 'overtime' is likely to be seen by many tax payers as a less worthy cause for striking, where as 'anti-social' hours would more likely to be seen as a fair payment for giving up time with family......

Overtime is normally only paid once full-time contracted hours have been reached and is for any hours then worked..........where as the hours that are being talked about are only for Saturdays and Sundays.............


As any one got the inside info on this?

The NHS 111 phone line service will undergo “fundamental” reform in the wake of a report into an unnecessary death of a child, Jeremy Hunt has said.

William Mead, from Cornwall, died of Sepsis after NHS 111 failed to diagnose his condition.

The 111 service was rolled out by the Coalition government by early 2014 to replace the NHS Direct phone line.
The change was criticised at the time because NHS Direct’s call handlers were mainly nurses, while the new service used non-clinician staff in call centres using a piece of computer software.

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Monday last I spent over three hours in hospital for tests, yesterday 5 hours, at all times I received the best possible treatment from all concerned.

The waiting is due to the numbers involved in needing treatment.

Many of those involved are suffering from self inficted problems to the detriment of those who have natural problems.

If those who cause their own problems had to pay and at a location away from the main hospitals the problem would be eased.

Not to mention of course those who come over just to use our facilities free of charge.

The vast majority of doctors and all the other staff do a marverlous job but are just overwhelmed by the numbers involved.

polyglide said:  The waiting is due to the numbers involved in needing treatment.
Is it not the job of the bosses to see they have adequate facilities and staff for those numbers. Perhaps you feel the genuine patients should suffer for the not so genuine.

polyglide. What is “a self-inflicted problem”? Smoking, obesity, excess alcohol, I suppose. How about sunburn, which might be self-inflicted if sitting on a beach all day, but not if working outdoors in hot weather? Then there’s having a poor diet (which might be because you can’t afford anything better), which can lead to heart attacks and strokes. How about getting injured in a car accident which has been deemed to be your fault? And then there are injuries from participating in any kind of sporting activity. It would create a bureaucratic nightmare to try to sort out what is self-inflicted and what isn’t.

I’m sure the Tories would love such a policy, because it would be the thin end of the wedge in the destruction of the NHS principle that it should be free at the point of use. As to ‘health tourism’, that’s been greatly exaggerated by the serial liar Jeremy Hunt:-
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Polyglide.....'Not to mention of course those who come over just to use our facilities free of charge.'

Do you have clear proof that some of those waiting for treatment were 'not entitled'?

How was this proof obtained?

Or are you just repeating the standard media line?

We in England pay dearly for all our services including the National Health Service.

NI, 20% VAT, Road Tax, Corporation Tax, Council Tax, Fuel Tax, Parking Fees etc; etc;

So no one gets anything for nothing and is a fairer way than one having to have personal insurance which depends on ones financial circumstances.

Under those circumstances everyone should be entitled to treatment when necessary and this I do not dispute.

However, what I do dispute is when those who have caused their own problems make those who have not suffer because of the treatment they have to receive and often straight away to the detriment of others.

Of course there are instances that one can relate that appear infair and appear to discriminate but that applies to everything in life and you have to use common sense.

I would gladly agree to a seperate place in which to treat drunken people and those who are have self inflicted drug problems along with those involved in fights etc.

You have to use common sense a thing lacking in almost all of daily life at the present time.

polyglide wrote:.... having to have personal insurance....

Precisely what Jeremy Hunt thinks everybody should invest in for themselves. It's not the government's job.

The problem with everyone having to have insurance is the fact that the vast majority would not be able to afford it.

Prior to the National Health Service my parents had to pay 6p each for themselves and a penny per child (each week).

Now this may not appear a lot but at the time many people could not afford it and many sick people were not given the attention they should have received in any civilised society.

The National Health Service is based on those who can pay more do so and all contribute according to their circumstances and I can see no better way.

What stands in the way of it being what it should be is the abuse that is involved in nearly every aspect of it's administration.

George Galloway: "Britain’s National Health Service, arguably the UK’s heart and soul, is locked in confrontation with one of the country’s least popular politicians, Jeremy Hunt. Dr. Bob Gill is part of the Save Our NHS campaign so we invited him aboard 'Sputnik' to tell us just what is happening and the tactics being employed."

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J Hunt will take as much notice of protesting Doctors as T Blair did of anti-Iraq-war demonstrators.


"Blair to defy anti-war protests
Million-strong demonstration will not deflect Iraq policy as ministers rally round prime minister."
Ewen MacAskill and Michael White
Monday 17 February 2003
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We all grumble and rightly so, however, can anyone a give a credible solution that can be financed in a fair and proper manner?.

Insiders reveal secret Tory plan to sell-off this critical piece of the NHS

From an article by Carlyn Harvey:-

The NHS’s recruitment agency is going to be privatised, according to RT. NHS Professionals (NHSP) is the largest provider of temporary medical staff to the NHS and has over 60,000 medical professionals registered with its service.

In 2015, NHSP reportedly saw a profit increase of 43% on the year before, rising to £8 million. As a state-owned enterprise, this profit is fed directly back into NHS services. Should the service be sold off, this revenue would no longer benefit the NHS. It would fill the pockets of profiteers instead. According to ‘The Morning Star’, one potential beneficiary is the recruitment company Odgers Berndtson. This company is currently chaired by Virginia Bottomley, the former Tory health secretary and cousin of Jeremy Hunt. As RT told ‘The Morning Star’, this means that this private company, has a say in matters of the health service, and will be collecting a hefty commission from the placement of these jobs.

The sell-off, which was confirmed to RT by sources close to the deal, is a result of an ongoing review by multinational advisory firm Deloitte. The UK government has been tight-lipped about the policies NHS England is working on with Deloitte, even with its own MPs. RT says the UK government is now working out “the particulars of the deal” and merely waiting for the right “political timing” to announce it. But privatising this service would remove the extra revenue NHSP provides to the NHS. And it could lead to an increase in staffing costs for the health service, if private firms decide to raise prices to enhance profits.

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Employment Agencies routinely charge a fee which is equivalent to a year's salary when they successfully introduce a recruit to an Employer.

Why don't they just use a gun like any other self-respecting mugger?

What the junior doctors’ strike is really all about

In 2004, Oliver Letwin reportedly told a private meeting that the "NHS will not exist" within five years of a Conservative election victory.

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In 2005, Jeremy Hunt co-authored a policy pamphlet that called for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system. On page 78 it said: “Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain”.

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Polly Toynbee:-

“To bring these doctors out for the first time in decades has taken unprecedented provocation. Cameron threw in the “seven-day NHS pledge” without costing or defining it. No 10 says it means seven-day GPs – but GPs are struggling to cope as it is. NHS England says it only means emergency work – knowing it’s already there. Hunt withdrew his previous idea that it meant round-the-clock elective surgery - phenomenally expensive.    

Money matters in life-saving, as trusts’ debts rise higher than ever. Hunt has threatened trust boards with the sack if they don’t clear their debts without reducing quality, but that’s an impossibility. The unfunded seven-day working pledge comes on top of a Treasury demand that the NHS “saves” £22bn – another impossibility. The Care Quality Commission, itself cut by the Treasury, is raising the cost of its brutal inspections, making its victims pay. What a time to provoke NHS staff.”

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Owen Jones:-

“By defeating even near-universally respected junior doctors, the government hopes it can succeed in permanently remodelling the NHS – and teach other public sector workers (teachers, for example) a lesson they will not forget.

That Jeremy Hunt has turned down a pragmatic cross-party deal to trial his plans says it all. Hunt wants to crush the junior doctors and send a message to all of us. Never mind the cost. Never mind if people die. Never mind if junior doctors are left utterly demoralised, and there is an exodus from the profession. It will be a milestone in the Tories’ war on the public sector, and that will make it all worthwhile. Contemptible doesn’t cover it.”

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If it had ever been my intention to wreck the NHS, I would have begun by alienating the staff.

Well done, Mr *unt, you'll be a Lord in no time at all.

The actual facilities and staff needed to deal with the countries health needs are unknown.

They can only be estimated and on very unsound grounds.

Anyone can make comments and complain but under those circumstances I would expect those involved to offer a better alternative.

According to the Office for National Statistics, the Tories have cut 5,870 nurses, 33% of NHS walk-in centres and 7,968 hospital beds, while A&E performance is at an eight-year low. Great chunks of the NHS may still bear its logo but are being privatised by stealth. Because of cuts to social care, many elderly patients become ‘bed blockers’, being kept in hospital because there is nowhere else for them to go. The government is deliberately trying to stretch the NHS to breaking point by expecting it to perform for seven days a week all the services it has been providing over five days – without any extra cash and in many cases with fewer staff.

The ‘better alternative’ would be if the NHS was under the control of the party which set it up in 1948, not the one which opposed its very inception. Better with the party which trebled spending on the NHS between 1997 and 2010, not the one whose current health secretary co-authored a pamphlet calling for its fragmentation and privatisation.

I can understand the frustration felt by many regarding the present state of the NHS.

It is obvious that ther are large diffrences between certain areas regarding the services provided.

I have had cause to be admitted to hospital on three recent occasions for different tests, this involved about 15 hours in all.

The treatment was first class and the fact that you had to wait is justifiable because there are always people in more need than others, and this cannot be pre- calculated.

I feel the whole problem with nearly every aspect of life today is that we are ruled by a number of people that includes those with the most undesirable qualities and no one is willing to sort them out.