Is the Tory Party an anachronism which should be disbanded?

“No one ever rode to power on such a husky sledge of blatant untruth as David Cameron – greenest, most family-friendly, kindest to poor and disabled children and no frontline cuts.” (Polly Toynbee)
 
As we all know, Cameron only “rode to power” in 2010 on the backs of the Liberal Democrats. Despite having so many factors in their favour, the Tories couldn’t win the election outright, and their 36% share of the votes cast was their highest score in the last four general elections. The Tories haven’t won an election outright since 1992, when John Major lied his way back into office by promising “tax cuts year on year”, before proceeding to increase taxes more than any previous government in peacetime.
 
Tories have been around for a long time. The word ‘tory’ comes from the Gaelic ‘torai’, meaning ‘outlaw’ or ‘bandit’, so little has changed there. In the 17th century, Tories supported the king against Parliament. Although the Tory William Wilberforce was a leading campaigner against slavery, his party did not support its abolition, and it was left to a Whig government to end that evil practice in 1833, the year in which Wilberforce died. But then the Tories have always been ‘the nasty party’ (though that might be an understatement). 750,000 Irish people died of a potato famine in the 1840s because the Tories said ‘the free market’ would end the famine. (While those Irish people were starving to death, many Anglo-Irish estates continued to export grain and livestock to England.)
 
The Tories have rarely supported any of the reforms – such as education for all, the vote for all, the establishment of the welfare state and the NHS, legalised abortion and homosexuality – which in time came to be generally accepted as hallmarks of a civilised society. Yet until the arrival of Thatcher, the Tories sought not only to protect the rights of the rich and powerful (as they still do), but also to ‘conserve’ the status quo, whereas nowadays their mission is to asset-strip the state in support of their cronies and financial backers.
 
Despite having little or no empathy with the vast majority of the population, the Tories were, until quite recently, accepted as the natural party of government, and they were in power for about three-quarters of the last century. With more money than other parties and a largely supportive press, they operated a brilliant propaganda machine which persuaded or duped enough people into continually voting against their best interests. As Nye Bevan put it: “How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? That's the whole art of Tory politics.”
 
However, society has changed. Although far too many people are still brainwashed by the BBC into looking up to the medieval institution of hereditary monarchy, deferment to those with grand titles, pots of money and posh accents has declined rapidly since the 1960s. Britain has become multiracial and multicultural, and the most popular national dish isn’t steak and kidney pie or fish and chips but chicken tikka masala. Britain has been in the EU (and its predecessor, the EEC) for forty years, and the development of package holidays and cheap flights has broadened people’s horizons. Enough of us have realised that the world doesn’t end at Dover, and so the flag-waving ‘Little Englander’ mentality is now mainly the preserve of the saddos who support UKIP and the EDL. And of course we no longer have an empire, which used to make such people feel superior to the ‘Johnny Foreigners’ who were subjugated and exploited.
 
The Tories have failed to keep up with these changes, and their party membership reflects as much. At one time they had about 3 million members. When Cameron became their leader in 2005, they had 270,000 members, but now they have only 130,000. (By contrast, membership of the Labour Party has increased by 31,000 since Ed Miliband became leader.) Lord Feldman is the Tory co-chairman in charge of party membership. In 2011, he launched a membership drive which saw a further drop in membership! In the real world, failure on that scale would result in the sack, but Feldman, a close friend of Cameron with an office in Downing Street, remains in his post. Many of those who are still Tory Party members work themselves into a lather over equal marriage, which again shows how out of touch they are; I can’t believe that many of the people who are struggling to keep solvent and feed and clothe their children see such an issue as important.
 
Writing for ‘Conservative Home’, Paul Goodman points out that “Tory members have undergone one significant change in the last 25 years or so.  They are, on the whole, older people.” If the Tory Party can’t attract young people, isn’t it likely to die when its remaining members do? It may be that the Tories realise they are in terminal decline and that this may be their last ever time in power. That would explain the breakneck speed with which they are dismantling what’s left of the state following all the Thatcher and Major privatisations, which were dubbed by former Tory PM Harold Macmillan as “selling off the family silver”. Tory MP Douglas Carswell is certainly in no doubt that the Tories are in serious trouble:
 
“For a generation, the Conservative Party has been fighting a long retreat. An endangered species in much of the north of England, we are all but extinct in Scotland. Towns and cities across England that within living memory returned Conservative majorities to the town halls  and MPs to Parliament are now Tory-free. In many constituencies across the country, our local party structure is almost as hollow as our approach to the economy. HMV, the music retailer, went bust. Why? It had a declining market share and costly overheads. The Conservative Party is run a bit like HMV, and if it does not change, it will go the way of HMV.”
 
When Cameron became Tory leader, we were promised an end to the ‘nasty party’ image, but once in power again, the Tories have been more toxic than ever. We have a government conducting a systematic assault upon the sick, the poor and the disabled, slashing welfare budgets and forcing people off benefits. 500,000 of us now use food banks. They make it easier to sack us, make us work longer hours for less pay, force our kids to work for nothing, raise the retirement age whilst cutting our pensions and weaken our health and safety laws. And all just so a handful of people can be immensely rich.
 
Barring a rigged general election in 2015 – and we can’t rule anything out from a party that has tried to gerrymander the constituency boundaries, end automatic voter registration and cut off the finances of the main opposition party – the Tories will be toast. No governing party since 1974 has increased its percentage of the votes cast in the subsequent election (and then it was only because a second election was held after just seven months), and so the likelihood that the Tories will improve on their 36% share last time must be remote. Then the passage of time since the Tories last won an election outright will become even longer. Far-right headbangers have a natural home waiting for them in UKIP, blatant hypocrites can always link up with the Liberal Democrats, and the remaining Tory Party members will soon be having appointments with undertakers. So isn’t it time for this nasty, corrupt assortment of out-of-touch bigots, liars and losers known as the Tory Party to call it a day and disband?
 
Sources used:-
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/27/ed-balls-prudent-full-throttle-fury
 
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/historyonline/irish_potato_famine.cfm
 
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/how-tory-membership-has-collapsed-under-cameron
 
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2013/05/by-paul-goodmanfollow-paul-on-twitter-there-are-activists-in-every-party-whose-eyes-arent-entirely-steady-in-their-sockets.html
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2287256/Tory-Party-run-like-HMV--way-says-Conservative-MP-Clacton-DOUGLAS-CARSWELL.html

I guess, through most of my life I've felt the Tory party should go.
I remember as quite a young child feeling some admiration of MacMillan, an apparently dignified gentleman who seemed in a paternalistic way to have the interests of the population at heart.

Since then, the Tory public figures have come across as shrill, spiteful, corrupt and clearly the very opposite of paternalistic and benign - more like that kid in the school playground who stole your lunch money and then got you in trouble with the teacher for having a torn blazer (that he tore)

At school, such bullies and liars got by because they were bigger, or their parents were richer, or had access to power in ways that one's own family didn't. That somehow seemed to enable them to colonise the moral high ground along with all the power. I guess many supported and followed them out of fear, and the hope of getting a share of the goodies.
Probably in politics, many of the same forces are at work. People go along with the bully, partly because of fear, partly because they hope the bully will give them protection and maybe share some of the goodies. I guess really, we're all waiting for someone bigger and stronger to come along and finally provide an alternative to the frankly stupid and unworkable Tory philosophy.

The process is a bit like slum clearance - first you have to knock down the obsolete crumbling edifice, then you can build - but where will the people live while you build?

The lead posting is as good a summary of the Tory Party as I've seen, but the Labour Party can't rely upon being elected solely on the basis of NOT BEING THE TORY PARTY.

Owen Jones writes in the Independent with considerable misgivings about Labour's "low profile" posture.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/whats-killing-labour-a-thousand-failures-to-oppose-the-cuts-8680389.html

"George Osborne’s political career should be lying face down, lifeless, bobbing in the Thames. His statement last week should have been rebranded “The Comprehensive Review of the Failure of Austerity”. The Tories’ central pledge at the last election, after all, was that the deficit would be erased, wiped out, vanished over the course of this Parliament: there should have been no alleged need for further cuts after 2015."....

Thank you OW for bringing this up, what Owen Jones says is spot on in regards to the Labour party, they have let the Tories get away with far too much to the point where the UK public believed what the Tories were saying about the money that Labour had to borrow to bail out the banks. The Labour party let the drip drip effect run unchecked like many others, like the jibe about the Unions giving the Labour party donations when the Tory party are been given donations by the very people that got us into this mess but not a CHEEP from the Labour party or our MPs.
 
There are so many more but I am sure you have all heard it yourself, so I agree with OW and I am glad he has brought this topic up.

It seems that the far-right journalist Peter Hitchens was way ahead of me on the idea that the Tory Party should be shut down. He wrote this article ten years ago:-
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-185955/Why-shut-Tories.html

I am quite surprised at this article by a right winger Ivan, but got to admit he has got a good point and if there ever was as better time than now to shut this Incompetent LYING CHEATING GREEDY party down "NOW IS THE TIME"

The Conservatives have never represented the interests of ordinary working people and still today continue to attack the most vulnerable people here in Britain. The party systematically fought the unions until eventually entire swathes of the community were left abandoned as the industries shut down - unemployment rife in these towns and cities, the Tories are now going to take away what little support their receive.

Not only have the Tories abandoned these working class communities, but they have demonized them as scroungers and frauds. What happened to the proud identity of the working man? The economic crisis (the one that was caused by large banks and investment firms) has now allowed Cameron to finish off the cruel job that Thatcher began.

I feel very upset that these rich elites are now going to tear apart the NHS me and my family rely on. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/26/nhs-privatisation-fears-deepen-deal

A heartfelt expression of opinion, James, but the Tory Party are not going to go away just because they've been unmasked as the socially-divisive bandits which they undoubtedly are.

The next General Election is probably 21 months away, and sensible people must use that time to undermine the right-wing propaganda machine. The obvious finger-in-the-dyke is the one being held in place by the minority Lib-Dems, so a concerted attack on that segment of the coalition must mean failure of the coalition. Not even the Tories themselves expect to be able to form a majority government at Westminster.

We can't change everything, but things are changeable.

Very true. I'm pleased to see that anti-austerity movements are growing in momentum and the opposition to privatization has never been stronger.

The first People's Assembly last month was absolutely brilliant. http://thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/

Furthermore, we've got a new alliance between socialists and trade unions. http://www.tusc.org.uk/

http://www.keepournhspublic.com/index.php

The Tory Party is never embarrassed at its own crassness.
In the High Court a judge has concluded that "a government minister" Grant Shapps, chairman of the Tory Party, acted unlawfully when he signed-off a £35 million "transition fund" which paid for continuing demolition of 440 homes in the Welsh streets  area of Toxteth where Ringo Starr was born, in order to replace them with 150 new houses.
 
Evidently this £35m plan directly contradicted promises made by Shapps to the House of Commons that he would favour refurbishment over demolition.
 
The House of Commons normally takes a dim view of being lied to, so what happens now?

When has the Tory party ever been embarrassed by anything OW, with the LIES that they spout every minute of the day as for what the H.O.C will say about being LIED too did you not know the Tories are above the law they think because they are in power with the Lib-Dems laws of this land or the H.O.C. do not apply to them.

Whats worrying me about them is their plans to destroy the welfare state, by villifying people on welfare, while not improving the lot of people working for low wages. Such as bringing in a living wage and capping the rent that greedy landlords can charge tennents. Maybe these landlords along with bankers and global corporations should be receiving the venum and bile that people on welfare receive from rags like The Sun.

I'll be honest I've always hated the tories, this comes from growing up in the 80sn and memories of Thatcher's devisive policies.

Hi Mark and Welcome
 
I like yourself was around in the 18 years of Thatcher so I know what you mean, I would like to know where the Tories think the tax money for the treasury is going to come from if they destroy our Welfare state and NHS, if people are not earning much they will not be paying tax and since the Tories do not believe in the wealthy and the rich paying their fair share they will be up the creek without a paddle.
 
I just hope people see right through this shower of Incompetent SCUMBAGS and puts a Labour gov't into power with a majority so no coalition, at least I believe the Labour party will be fair and rule for all of the UK not just the chosen few as the Tories do.

"I'll be honest I've always hated the tories."

Then you are definitely in the right place here, Mark.

It's helpful and accurate to regard Tories as an Invading Army.

I think OW the Tories are more like "Attila The Hun's Army", they invaded Murdered and Pillaged, does this sound familiar ??

While there are vicious, thieving, racist, spiteful moneyed scum there will always be a tory party, even if it chooses to call itself Liberal Whateveritis or New Labour. The bankers and Murdoch will rule whatever, since the mugs won't fight.

Penderyn wrote:While there are vicious, thieving, racist, spiteful moneyed scum there will always be a tory party, even if it chooses to call itself Liberal Whateveritis or New Labour.   The bankers and Murdoch will rule whatever, since the mugs won't fight.

 
Do not bank on that Penderyn people will only take so much then they will snap, at the moment the only ones that are taking their orders from the likes of Murdoch and their donors is the Tory party.   That is the reason the Leveson inquiry will go no further plus Doris is sucking up to Murdoch hoping he will help him take over the leadership of the Tory party and the same reason the payday loan sharks will not have their interest charges capped, they pour too much money into the Tory party, Wonga & Quick Quid are owned by two of the biggest Tory members and donors.

I'm trying to remember what preceded the landslide Labour victory in 1997.

Was the Major administration any worse than the shower clinging to office now?

oftenwrong wrote:I'm trying to remember what preceded the landslide Labour victory in 1997.

Was the Major administration any worse than the shower clinging to office now?

More to the point, what was the USE of that landslide victory?

Yep. Things are tough all over.

Penderyn wrote:
More to the point, what was the USE of that landslide victory?

 Sorry Penderyn got to disagree with you on this one, Tony Blair was not one of my favourite people but praise where praise is due he took us out of the hands of the 18 years where Foot and Kinnock had failed badly even after the Poll Tax debacle.   But Tony Blair did some good, he put plenty money into the NHS to save people from dying before they got a chance to get their operations this is where he brought in the private sector as the waiting list for operations was 18 months thanks to Thatchers neglect of the public sector, he also put plenty of money into education in fact all the public sector benefitted from the Labour gov't of 1997.
 
I met Cherie Blair in February when I went down to give them a hand in the by-election in Eastleigh. I live in Scotland, she has no airs or graces about her in fact I was quite surprised at how down to earth she really was , she asked if I was local and when I told her I had came down from Glasgow I got a lovely warm motherly hug from her.
 
If you go to the thread "Redflag Reporting From Eastleigh" you will see a photo of myself and Cherie Blair:-
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t798-redflag-reporting-from-eastleigh

Redflag wrote:

Penderyn wrote:
More to the point, what was the USE of that landslide victory?

 Sorry Penderyn got to disagree with you on this one, Tony Blair was not one of my favourite people but praise where praise is due he took us out of the hands of the 18 years where Foot and Kinnock had failed badly even after the Poll Tax debacle.   But Tony Blair did some good, he put plenty money into the NHS to save people from dying before they got a chance to get their operations this is where he brought in the private sector as the waiting list for operations was 18 months thanks to Thatchers neglect of the public sector, he also put plenty of money into education in fact all the public sector benefitted from the Labour gov't of 1997.
 
I met Cherie Blair in February when I went down to give them a hand in the by-election in Eastleigh. I live in Scotland, she has no airs or graces about her in fact I was quite surprised at how down to earth she really was , she asked if I was local and when I told her I had came down from Glasgow I got a lovely warm motherly hug from her.
 
If you go to the thread "Redflag Reporting From Eastleigh" you will see a photo of myself and Cherie Blair:-
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t798-redflag-reporting-from-eastleigh

You prefer Lady Bountiful to Lord Screwem.   I don't.   Blair buggered the Labour Party  for good, and now we've got all the work to do again, as we endure zero contracts, publicly-expressed hatred of the poor and the prospect of living on grass.   It is like preferring Goering to Goebbels as far as I can see.   You fight ALL the scum or they destroy you ALL - it's just as simple as that.

Indeed, the trenches can be a lonely place.

oftenwrong wrote:Indeed, the trenches can be a lonely place.

Belsen a lot more fun?

So you do not believe in giving credit where credit is due Penderyn, I was not saying everything that Tony Blair did was the right thing to do but you got to admit he did some good things for the UK, not like the GREEDY TORY BACKSTUDS that take off the poor to give the FILTHY RICH that pour money into the Tory party funds.
 
If the Labour party leans too far to the left, they will not get a majority of the voters to vote for them, what you want is the Labour party of the 60s-70s that is gone this is the 21st century and the Labour party must move with the times at the same time looking after their core voters of the working man/women, while sticking to the Labour party core values.

If the Labour Party came anywhere near standing for the majority, they'd win by a landslide.  All the Michael-Foot-in-a-donkey-jacket crap belongs to the days when Shirley Williams and her chums knifed us and split the vote.   We'd soon have been back if we'd had any socialists in Parliament, instead of those grovelling careerist craps.   Obviously anyone is better than the tories:  the question is whether they get in the way of doing something about the tories' class war, and this lot don't.

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is an assertion made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." In other words, Godwin said that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

oftenwrong wrote:Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is an assertion made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." In other words, Godwin said that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Yes, and standard guff it is. There are two sides, the capitalists and the majority who do the work. Mostly the former can keep the latter half-cut and accepting their dictatorship. When it is challenged they hand over power to those who will murder anyone who challenges their system. It is called Godwin's Holiday Camp Law.

Penderyn wrote:If the Labour Party came anywhere near standing for the majority, they'd win by a landslide.  All the Michael-Foot-in-a-donkey-jacket crap belongs to the days when Shirley Williams and her chums knifed us and split the vote.   We'd soon have been back if we'd had any socialists in Parliament, instead of those grovelling careerist craps.   Obviously anyone is better than the tories:  the question is whether they get in the way of doing something about the tories' class war, and this lot don't.

How do you think Tony Blair got his landslide of 1997, it was because he got middle class voters to vote Labour some would have been Lib-Dem voters and some would have been disgruntled Tory voters. Something I forgot to mention that Tony Blair did is the minimum wage which Cameron wants to do away with and allow the bosses to pay people PEANUTS so there profits go through the ceiling.

Redflag wrote:

Penderyn wrote:If the Labour Party came anywhere near standing for the majority, they'd win by a landslide.  All the Michael-Foot-in-a-donkey-jacket crap belongs to the days when Shirley Williams and her chums knifed us and split the vote.   We'd soon have been back if we'd had any socialists in Parliament, instead of those grovelling careerist craps.   Obviously anyone is better than the tories:  the question is whether they get in the way of doing something about the tories' class war, and this lot don't.

How do you think Tony Blair got his landslide of 1997, it was because he got middle class voters to vote Labour some would have been Lib-Dem voters and some would have been disgruntled Tory voters.  Something I forgot to mention that Tony Blair did is the minimum wage which Cameron wants to do away with and allow the bosses to pay people PEANUTS so there profits go through the ceiling.

Because he grovelled to Murdoch and everyone was sick of the tories. He pleased the capitalists because he promised to stay tory - don't you remember?

The tory party, unfortunately, have a very good chance of winning the next election. A lot of the british electorate are either ignorant, brainwashed, inhumane, selfish and vile - or a combination of all these traits.

And as for the present day 'Labour' party...........ffs lol.

Aye, lad.  T'ole world's mad 'cept thee 'n' me.

Hast thee met Penderyn? Stout fellow, much like thee'sen.

Penderyn
You seem singularly disenchanted with the political scene.
I find myself wondering --- what party do you support, or will you be abstaining at the next General Election?
It seems to me, short of bloody revolution or a complete rejigging of the current system (which would probably have to be done by a government) we have limited choice at present - more Coalition dismantling of the welfare state, the NHS and anything else you might want to mention that gives the common citizen a chance, or vote in  a Labour government, who aren't perfect, but, as Red has pointed out, have done some positive things for the working class.

My own preference is always not to have a bloody revolution - call me old fashioned.

boatlady wrote:Penderyn
You seem singularly disenchanted with the political scene.
I find myself wondering --- what party do you support, or will you be abstaining at the next General Election?
It seems to me, short of bloody revolution or a complete rejigging of the current system (which would probably have to be done by a government) we have limited choice at present - more Coalition dismantling of the welfare state, the NHS and anything else you might want to mention that gives the common citizen a chance, or vote in  a Labour government, who aren't perfect, but, as Red has pointed out, have done some positive things for the working class.

My own preference is always not to have a bloody revolution - call me old fashioned.

Well bloody said Boatlady I agree with EVERYTHING you have said about this Tory led coalition, and of course your spot on if the UK votes in a Labour gov't in 2015 they may not get everything right but at least we will have a FAIR FOR ALL gov't not just for the chosen ELITE of the UK.

But I do wonder what it is going to take to get the UK public to see through the TORY BLATANT LIES and to get angry enough for that REVELUTION to happen, that would put the WIND UP Cameron and his SCUMBAG MPs.

boatlady wrote:Penderyn
You seem singularly disenchanted with the political scene.
I find myself wondering --- what party do you support, or will you be abstaining at the next General Election?
It seems to me, short of bloody revolution or a complete rejigging of the current system (which would probably have to be done by a government) we have limited choice at present - more Coalition dismantling of the welfare state, the NHS and anything else you might want to mention that gives the common citizen a chance, or vote in  a Labour government, who aren't perfect, but, as Red has pointed out, have done some positive things for the working class.

My own preference is always not to have a bloody revolution - call me old fashioned.

Well, given the current nature of UK politics, I want to get free of it as soon as possible, so I support Plaid Cymru. The general point is, though, that whether you like it or not, there is a class war being fought, and if you lie down and give up you get walked on. The mass of people are having to learn this again, because they are brainwashed mugs who think decent treatment comes from God or somewhere in Eton, and, lo and behold, the tories are kicking them where it hurts, as they always have and always will, given half a chance. The LP careerists got rid of any effective working-class membership and have no contact with ordinary people now, the likes of Murdoch being their gods. I don't care for their bloody careers - I care what happens to the vast mass of working people - and the Fuhrer and his Balls are not on our side.

Penderyn wrote:

boatlady wrote:Penderyn
You seem singularly disenchanted with the political scene.
I find myself wondering --- what party do you support, or will you be abstaining at the next General Election?
It seems to me, short of bloody revolution or a complete rejigging of the current system (which would probably have to be done by a government) we have limited choice at present - more Coalition dismantling of the welfare state, the NHS and anything else you might want to mention that gives the common citizen a chance, or vote in  a Labour government, who aren't perfect, but, as Red has pointed out, have done some positive things for the working class.

My own preference is always not to have a bloody revolution - call me old fashioned.

Well, given the current nature of UK politics, I want  to get free of it as soon as possible, so I support Plaid Cymru.   The general point is, though, that whether you like it or not, there is a class war being fought, and if you  lie  down and give up you get walked on.   The mass of people are having to learn this again, because they are brainwashed mugs who think decent treatment comes from God or somewhere in Eton, and, lo and behold, the tories are kicking them where it hurts, as they always have and always will, given half a chance.   The LP careerists got rid of any effective working-class membership and have no contact with  ordinary people now, the likes of Murdoch being their gods.    I don't care for their bloody careers - I care what happens to the vast mass of working people - and the Fuhrer and his Balls are not on our side.  

You know Penderyn that Plaid Cymru are not a party in the H.O.C just like the SNP party, I understand where your coming from and Labour might not be all you want it to be but would you rather let the Tories back in for another 5 years so they can kick the working man/women a lot more and it would get worse as I am sure you are aware of.

At least with a Labour gov't it would be FAIR FOR ALL not just the chosen ELITE at the top of society, that is all we are saying on this forum I live in Scotland and I am worried about the referendum in Sept 2014, at the moment two thirds of Scots do not want Independence but this Tory gov't could force Scotland to vote Yes when really they want to vote No.

A usually reliable piece of advice goes something like: "Examine the alternatives, and if they are all worse, proceed with your first idea."

I care what happens to the vast mass of working people

Me too, Penderyn, specially as I've always counted myself as one of them.
As a member of that group, I say we need a government that first of all is not Tory, that second of all will at least try to introduce some fair policies.
The current Labour front bench are, it's true, very middle class and mostly privately educated; however, at the moment I might prefer a bit of paternalism to the out and out class war being waged by the current government.

We do need some form of government, and that does need to be formed by an organisation that is capable of being elected under the current system.

For examples of bloody revlolution, I refer you to Russia 1917, Egypt, still, France 1789. None of that appeals to me.

Currently, we have a government that, against international law, is waging war on the weaker and more vulnerable members of society - they are killing people on a daily basis. The last Labour government didn't do that, and I don't think they'd do that if they were back in power, so as far as I'm concerned they're a much preferable option to the status quo.

We don't need a 'bloody' revolution.

We simply need unity and solidarity amongst the working classes, a general strike until we see fairer wage distribution and a substantial rise in the minimum wage, a point blank refusal from people to work zero hour contracts, a refusal from everybody to pay out extra rent because of such nonsense as 'bedroom tax', a refusal from everybody to pay any utility bills if they rise again in the next 5yrs, etc.

What would they do? Starve us all? Take us all to court? Evict everybody? Turn off everybody's gas and electric? I think not!

People forget we have power in numbers......we simply need unity, focus, and direction.

This would need unity amongst people in terms of supporting those in need of food/resources until issues were resolved to OUR satisfaction.

Hello again everyone! Hope you're all well?

It won't happen sickchip, too many people are only interested in number one, Thatcher taught them well! Plus, why should they get off their arses when they can be spoon fed bullshit via that square shaped thing in the corner of their living rooms? As long as the masses can feast on X factor and Britain's got talent then everything in the garden is rosy!