Can God love? (Part 2)

First topic message reminder :

The problem we have is that we can only think in our limited terms , we do not know of any process that covers the universe but if we did it would be just as simple as us explaining to a child how a toy was made etc

Depends on how much education you have, how bright you are and whether or not you are willing to learn things that are outside your comfort zone in the search for the truth. The universe and all that is in it is a complex place.

All the atoms that make up you were created in the stars. We are stardust, poly.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/06/990625080416.htm

Sadly so very true snowy.

z

It is no good claiming to be well educated when you are unable to understand plain English and the meanings involved.

I gave you an example of the fact that if man was put in a place along with all other creatures without anything other than what he stood up in {nude] with nothing whatsoever in terms of man's inventions he would not last two minutes.

Your reply as usual was to bring in the fact that has nothing whatsoever to do with the matter in question, not everyone enjoys the same life.

Totally unrelated.

Another scenario for your undoubted self proclaimed high intelligence.

Put all the different peoples of the world in one place and you would eventually end up with mankind being exactly as God first created him.

Just as putting all the different species of dogs under the same conditions would end up as grey wolves.

It is no good claiming to be well educated when you are unable to understand plain English and the meanings involved.

I gave you an example of the fact that if man was put in a place along with all other creatures without anything other than what he stood up in {nude] with nothing whatsoever in terms of man's inventions he would not last two minutes.

Your reply as usual was to bring in the fact that has nothing whatsoever to do with the matter in question, not everyone enjoys the same life.

Totally unrelated.

Another scenario for your undoubted self proclaimed high intelligence.

Put all the different peoples of the world in one place and you would eventually end up with mankind being exactly as God first created him.

Just as putting all the different species of dogs under the same conditions would end up as grey wolves.

polyglide wrote:It is no good claiming to be well educated when you are unable to understand plain English and the meanings involved.

I gave you an example of the fact that if man was put in a place along with all other creatures without anything other than what he stood up in {nude] with nothing whatsoever in terms of man's inventions he would not last two minutes.

Your reply as usual was to bring in the fact that has nothing whatsoever to do with the matter in question, not everyone enjoys the same life.

Totally unrelated.

Another scenario for your undoubted self proclaimed high intelligence.

Put all the different peoples of the world in one place and you would eventually end up with mankind being exactly as God first created him.

Just as putting all the different species of dogs under the same conditions would end up as grey wolves.

Can you explain how that is any different to what you just did earlier in a different thread, i.e. bringing up evolution in relation to the formation of snowflakes?

Dan, evolution means nothing to pg as he hasn't the knowledge to read any other book other than the bible, not only is he a godlover, he probably worships 20 times a day.

z

Very true Heretic, as men and women have usually always been social creatures, and do love mixing together. They would most certainly be able to work out what problems appeared between themselves, and last a lot longer than two minutes.

You miss the whole point.

The humans would not know which food was safe, they would have no idea of shelter of any kind and would be at the mercy of animals far more able because God gave them the intelligence necessary for their survival.

The only reason a person isolated on an island would survive is because of what he had learned and not by instinct alone, [as with all other animals.]

Just learn to understand the meaning of a statement.

z

I see PG had no reply to your post Heretic, probably praying that god will tell him one eh.

z

Hi Heretic, that is why you will not get an answer mate.  

z

Hi Heretic, I hope you get some support that you need with regards to your daughter and her condition, i'm sorry that I could not help more my friend. Do not go to far as I enjoy our chats.  

Of course man has been able to learn and pass on that information.

You reply in a like manner to Shirina, totally irrelevant to the subject in question.

It does not matter what man has learned, put him in the same situation I described and he would not survive.

It is proof that man is an entirely different creation to any other living being that he is able to do as he does.

In the situation I descrbed nothing would be taken from man, so why should anything be taken from any other animal, teeth or anything else ?.

As I stated, you do not understand plain English, you wrap yourself around a load of nonsense.

In your original post PG, I DO BELIEVE THAT YOU SAID MAN WOULD NOT LAST LONGER THAN TWO MINUTES. I can assure you that put in that position, I would certainly last longer than the two minutes.

Irony overload from PG there.

Hi Dan, very much so!!

z

Hope you get the help you need Heretic, see you whenever you pop in friend, hope your daughter is ok, take care.

polyglide wrote:Of course man has been able to learn and pass on that information.

You reply in a like manner to Shirina, totally irrelevant to the subject in question.

It does not matter what man has learned, put him in the same situation I described and he would not survive.

It is proof that man is an entirely different creation to any other living being that he is able to do as he does.

In the situation I descrbed nothing would be taken from man, so why should anything be taken from any other animal, teeth or anything else ?.

As I stated, you do not understand plain English, you wrap yourself around a load of nonsense.

Obviously prayer would make no difference. At least we can agree on one thing.

Are you really suggesting that no one could recognise an apple or a potato? Or be able to see that a branch could be broken off a tree and used as a weapon?

Put one animal of each, kind in an arena and then add one man, who would be the last one left?.

You could have as many trees in as you like.

PG, talking b/s again.

polyglide wrote:Put one animal of each,   kind in an arena and then add one man, who would be the last one left?.

You could have as many trees in as you like.

Which type of animal built the arena?

I do not think those inside under the circumstances would be in the least concerned.

You are well out of your depth.

polyglide wrote:I do not think those inside under the circumstances would be in the least concerned.

You are well out of your depth.

The (obvious) point I am making is that only man could have built the arena and only man could have created the circumstances within it which you describe. So you're using a man-made building and a man-made set of circumstances in order to try and make some bizarre point about modern man not being able to survive in the wilderness, or something. Now, if I am well out of my depth, as you assert, you will be able to point out why and show the flaws in my argument but I can pretty much guarantee you'll resort to changing the subject, attempting insults (to use your apt phrase) and generally alluding to some deep truth which is beyond the ken of non-believers. Either that or you'll ignore this post altogether. No one on here fails to see through these tactics with the possible exception of yourself. Now, if I'm wrong, prove it.

Well said Dan, he will no doubt come back with even more b/s.

Forget the arena.

Use any place you wish and without any other aids man would not survive in the wilderness you refer to but other animals would.

All animals are programed to lead the life intended and can do so providing the circumstances that pevailed at the time of their creation are still the same.

Man, when created was not so, he was given the chance to pick and choose and told how to conduct himself to the best effect.

Just look at the world today, any animal left alone will live the life, without change, that which God intended.

Look at man and see what he has done with choice.

polyglide wrote:Forget the arena.

Use any place you wish and without any other aids man would not survive in the wilderness you refer to but other animals would.

How do people manage to live in the wilderness then?
Edit: Anyway, after the fall of man, didn't god leave Adam and Eve in the wilderness?

polyglide wrote:Forget the arena.

Use any place you wish and without any other aids man would not survive in the wilderness you refer to but other animals would.

All animals are programed to lead the life intended and can do so providing the circumstances that pevailed at the time of their creation are still the same.

Man, when created was not so, he was given the chance to pick and choose and told how to conduct himself to the best effect.

Just look at the world today, any animal left alone will live the life, without change, that which God intended.

Look at man and see what he has done with choice.

So why are we still here? Why aren't we extinct?

After all, when God gave Adam and Eve the boot out of Eden, what did they have that would have allowed them to survive?

God made all creatures subject to man, if just a small proportion of the animal kingdom got together against man, then man would not last two minutes and evolution cannot explain otherwise.

PG dodging questions? Quelle surprise.  

I thought you would still be eating your Cow Pie.

Ooh! Get her.

PG tripped himself up by forgetting about a particularly well-known piece of scripture (how ironic). His response to that being pointed out was to move the goalposts and claim god made all creatures subject to man. Which would run contrary to the behaviour of many animals and PG's assertion that man would not survive in the wilderness (of course it had already been pointed out that many people do survive in the wilderness). I really can't get my head around someone who is prepared to change their own mind in order to put forward their argument. If you look at the last couple of pages it's basically him arguing against what he has previously put forward when the flaws in his argument have been pointed out. He has absolutely no interest in reasoned debate.

Hi Heretic, hope all is well, the only game PG plays is looking in the mirror and talking to himself.

I have played many games all of which I have played at a reasonable level, football for the regiment, cricket for the same, bowls I still play, dancing I still do along with snooker for 3hours every Monday, the latter I have done for over 10 years and I enjoy all that nature has to offer.

However, this has nothing whatsoever to do with creation and the lack of your understanding of others points of view.

If I reiterate a point it is only because you have failed to see the relevance.

No one has given an answer to any point I have made.

In early childhood I was frightend into believing in God and Hell fire, I still have for reference both a Bible and a New Testament dated by the pastor of the Church I was too frightend to miss going to.

They were both given for good attendance.

Later I realised that the teachings were not actually in accordance with what I believe God is and his intentions.

So I looked at the alternatives to life.

Evolution being one of them.

After considering the implications of evolution I came to the firm conclution[based on the evidence available] that there was no chance whatsoever of life being the result of evolution.

I have stated previously the odds of an eye coming about by chance are beyond those accepted as impossible, then we have the fact that even were the eye to have evolved for it to become part of an animal and work as it does is just as impossible, according to the odds add to this all the interdependancies and the odds of them comming about by chance and then add all the other such events and their odds and you have odds beyond that whic one can calculate.

On that basis I looked elsewhere for the answers.

There is one thing for certain, there must be a creator of one kind or another if matters cannot, as the odds indicate, come about by chance.

Then I looked for the possible creator and found God.

If I am correct then all things are explainable in the first instance but then get confused because there are other factors that seem disputable as to the reasons why they occur and on further seeking the truth I find that Satan is also a fact of life and then the implications of all that appears against a loving God can be explained.

I can assure you I have been to many parts of the world and seen life in all it's despair and also in it's glory and the reason for the former is man's ignorance and selfishness and the self belief that he is the one and only.

And just consider where it has got him.

Captain Irrelevant strikes again.

How you excaped from the Dandy I do not know but your replies are more suitable and representative of that publication.

polyglide wrote:....
I have stated previously the odds of an eye coming about by chance are beyond those accepted as impossible, then we have the fact that even were the eye to have evolved for it to become part of an animal and work as it does is just as impossible, according to the odds add to this all the interdependancies and the odds of them comming about by chance and then add all the other such events and their odds and you have odds beyond  that whic one can calculate...

It is unfortunate that you should pick the eye as your target for an anti evolutionary outburst. It is probably the worst example that you could have picked. Many simulations have been done to show how such an organ could evolve AND all the stages that the eye would have to go through to reach the one that you and I use are still extant in the animal kingdom.

You could try looking at the article in Wiki that goes with


which is here

A more detailed scientific paper giving an estimate (of how long it would take to evolve is here.