Can God love? (Part 2)

First topic message reminder :

The problem we have is that we can only think in our limited terms , we do not know of any process that covers the universe but if we did it would be just as simple as us explaining to a child how a toy was made etc

Depends on how much education you have, how bright you are and whether or not you are willing to learn things that are outside your comfort zone in the search for the truth. The universe and all that is in it is a complex place.

All the atoms that make up you were created in the stars. We are stardust, poly.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/06/990625080416.htm

How can you come to a conclusion without thinking about it first, PG?

I'll leave you to ponder that one (not too much, obviously).

There are no gods. The great point about Christianity is that it was originally an attempt to extend the Roman habit of electing humans as 'gods' into a serious religion, Judaism. Unfortunately the message got mixed, by those who stood to gain thereby.

There is only one God as we will soon find out.

You can consider any number of subjects but there will be only a number that, under normal circumstances will be classed as fact and they will be self evident.

you might soon find out PG but I won't and that's for sure.

polyglide wrote:You can consider any number of subjects but there will be only a number that, under normal circumstances will be classed as fact and they will be self evident.

I genuinely can't think of a single example in my time on here where you've demonstrated that you've given any consideration to any of the subjects being discussed.

polyglide wrote:If you read the Bible you will find that Satan challenged God in as much as he said he could turn everyone against him.

The terms between the two we do not know but circumstances dictate that Satan was given a free reign just as God gave man the freedom of choice.

Otherwise there would not be a fair trial.

To blame God for man's stupidity is pointless.

God is omniscient. There would be utterly no point to this ridiculous challenge because God would instantly know who would win this bet - and so would Satan. It is so completely disingenuous of Christians to claim this or that about their God and then forget about it later just to make a story work. It doesn't.

We are NOT at fault if God let Satan run amok in the world just to satisfy some stupid fraternity bet. I mean, serioiusly, how effing childish is that? Would you lock your kids up with a drug dealer just to prove to your buddy that your kids can say "no" to drugs? Would you? And would you hold your kids responsible if they didn't say no?

This entire concept is as immoral as it gets, and that fact is only exacerbated by the fact that God is supposed to be omni-benevolent. Well ... if this is your idea of omni-benevolent, your idea of evil would make Satan look like a saint.

[quote="polyglide"]I tend to associate with like people who have the same opinions and understanding.

There is no point in doing othe4rwise.

The world is full of evil people, do you ever read the newspapers etc?.[/quote]

Polyglide, so  you have no acquaintances or relatives or friends who you would call evil. Well, guess what? Neither do I! And I'm willing to bet that most of the people on this forum don't know anyone who is 'evil'.

Yes, the newspapers report on crime and horrible events. But Crime is falling in the UK. Why is that do you think? It's not because of religion. So your statement that 'the world is full of evil people' is really erroneous. The world has a very small percentage of evil people. Most people are alright. Prove it to yourself and try to pinpoint one truly evil person in your own life. I bet you can't.

Don't forget, Snowyflake, that most Christians believe that all sins are equal in God's eyes.

So if you ever told a little white lie to avoid hurting someone's feelings, you may as well be Hitler or Stalin. There's no difference between you and they.

It's an immensely stupid idea, but that's what they believe, so perhaps polyglide will end up saying something like, "We're all sinners and therefore we're all evil" or some other egregiously nonsensical reply.

Hi Shirina

Hope you are well and not hurting too much these days. The whole concept of evil and sin is designed to bring people down and make them feel worthless. I absolutely hate the psychological manipulation that religion plays on the minds of vulnerable and gullible people.

Not sure if polyglide thinks telling a white lie is in the same league as child molestation or murder. We'll see what he says on the subject.

Take care of yourself.

I know not where in the Bible Christ says all sins are equal.

What he does say that the most henious sin can be forgiven if the person resonsible is truly repentant, which is not the same.

Man is the one who grades sin.

The world in terms of evil as accepted as a statement is true.

Look around the world and you will see evil thoughout or you are not looking in the right places.

Crime figures as selected by those responsible are down, crime is up and ask anyone on the street if they believe crime is down.

polyglide wrote:I know not where in the Bible Christ says all sins are equal.

What he does say that the most henious sin can be forgiven if the person resonsible is truly repentant, which is not the same.

Man is the one who grades sin.

The world in terms of evil as accepted as a statement is true.

Look around the world and you will see evil thoughout or you are not looking in the right places.

Crime figures as selected by those responsible are down, crime is up and ask anyone on the street if they believe crime is down.

Indeed. One of man's best and most just invention was the graduated crime and punishment concepts. The penalty should fit the crime.

Strange that you think you God has graduated sin yet he only has one penalty and that is hell everlasting.

A plain old fornicator will have the same punishment as Hitler. Do you think that to be good justice?

Regards
DL

WE know not why many men sin, God does and he will judge accordingly, also to what extent mad is repentant.

That doesn't answer the question you were asked, PG. People will judge that accordingly.

I can only answer in the terms of the facts and this I have done.

polyglide wrote:WE know not why many men sin, God does and he will judge accordingly, also to what extent mad is repentant.

Your version of God is who creates men. Right?

Einstein said that to continue to do the same thing while expecting different results is a sign of insanity.

Why does your God not try a different creating method. His is obviously flawed if none of us reach his expectation. Right?

Regards
DL

polyglide wrote:I know not where in the Bible Christ says all sins are equal.

For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. --James 2:10

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” -- Galatians 3:10

polyglide wrote:What he does say that the most henious sin can be forgiven if the person resonsible is truly repentant, which is not the same.

But is that truly justice? Is justice served when a Hitler or a Stalin can simply ask for forgiveness and that person will get a reserved seat in Heaven, but a genuinely good person who doesn't believe or believes in the wrong religion gets a one-way ticket to Hell? Is God really looking for goodness and morality?: Or is God simply looking for sycophants and worshipers? It would seem to me that a lot of this junk is just ways to manipulate emotions in order to keep the messianic Christ cult growing and going.

polyglide wrote:Man is the one who grades sin.

Shouldn't God do the same? Or do you really believe that good and moral atheists deserve to be tortured for all eternity simply for not believing?

polyglide wrote:Look around the world and you will see evil thoughout or you are not looking in the right places.

Sure, there is evil. But we've had this conversation before. I know how the mind of apocalyptics function - and you are fixated on the negative. It is a mainstay of your particular brand of Christianity, because the worse things get, the closer is Jesus's return. Unfortunately, A LOT of Christians define "evil" through the lens of sexual indiscretion and substance abuse rather than the truely heinous crimes. How many people did God kill for committing rape or murder? Yeah, none ... but God will wipe out whole cities over homosexuality. It's amusing to watch movies based on the Bible. Whenever they portray a society living in sin, what you actually see is a society having a good time at a big party. You DON'T see them murdering and raping each other. Interesting, wouldn't you agree, how Christians perceive sin? It is actually quite frightening.

Heretic wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:Why does your God not try a different creating method. His is obviously flawed if none of us reach his expectation. Right?

Any truth that cannot be lived might as well be a lie.

Heretic

+ 1  

Regards
DL

Can God love?

To the question,Yes he can love. If we are assuming God exists and this is not the question of;

Does God exist?

It does mention in the bible God can love but also of course he hates evil doers. Very much like the character of our very selves that love those close to us and more or less hate certain people.

All the atoms that make up you were created in the stars. We are stardust,

Hello Snowy old friend,this is not a direct response to you.Just borrowing your quote.    

Yes indeed I would concur with the said quote. This notion can be claimed by both religious and non religious alike. We could,for example from a religious point of view, claim that the creation from stardust was by intention rather than fluke.

Atoms can only combine with certain atoms,compounds depending on certain temperatures or process,molecules formed by certain environments. Rules and laws for all physical matter.

Jsmythe wrote:Can God love?

To the question,Yes he can love. If we are assuming God exists and this is not the question of;

Does God exist?

It does mention in the bible God can love but also of course he hates evil doers. Very much like the character of our very selves that love those close to us and more or less hate certain people.

Morals, love and hate are all developed in man because we live in groups and without those we would have driven ourselves into extinction.

God was alone for who knows how long and would not have a need to develop those traits.

Perhaps that is why scriptures show him killing us so much.

Do you agree that he would not develop those traits?

Regards
DL

God was alone for who knows how long and would not have a need to develop those traits

Hello Greatest I am,Good to see you. I see what you mean there. Our God of the bible once said let us create man in OUR image. There were however, battles in the heavens,before that... you could be right

Best wishes
  
.

Jsmythe wrote:

God was alone for who knows how long and would not have a need to develop those traits

Hello Greatest I am,Good to see you. I see what you mean there. Our God of the bible once said let us create man in OUR image. There were however, battles in the heavens,before that... you could be right

Best wishes
  
.

Battles! News at 11.   

Who could possibly stand before God more than an instant and live if God wanted them dead.   

Certainly not lowly angels and demons. Right?

Regards
DL

Writing of God being good, referred to in plural form and being intolerant of humanity to the extent of intervening in order to destroy reminded me of something.

Clearly God is a fanciful imitation of Queen Victoria: "good and plural, but not amused" (Sellar and Yeatman. 1066 and All That).

The main problem is that we do not understand just what is involved in the heavens.

We know not how long, we know not why, we not not how and so we can only base everything on the information we do have which is very little and the interpretation man makes can be entirely opposite to that which another man makes.

The only manner in which to view matters is to base them on propability and possibility and even these can be viewed in a different manner by different people.

There is no point realy in anything if you do not believe in God.

The point of life lies in believing in something for which none of us have any understanding? Is that about the size of it?

You make an l of a point.

Please explain just what the point of any life is if there is nothing to follow.

polyglide wrote:You make an l of a point.

Please explain just what the point of any life is if there is nothing to follow.

Jesus followed his own good advise. Why can't you?

Jesus says that you are to lead by what is written on your heart yet you keep spouting the word instead of what should be on your heart.

Why don't you lead as Jesus advises?

Regards
DL

polyglide wrote:Please explain just what the point of any life is if there is nothing to follow.

The point of any life is to be happy. To do that you love. Love your family, friends, community. Help others. Be kind, compassionate, generous, honest, hard working, productive. That is the only point to life.

Please note, polyglide, no god needed for any of that. You can do all that and more without belief in invisible beings.

Life is meant to be lived in the present. Not stocking up for the non-existent after life.

Well said snowyflake, and very true.  

polyglide wrote:You make an l of a point.

Please explain just what the point of any life is if there is nothing to follow.

Making the most of the time you have. There, that was easy.

And to what actual end?.

Of course you love your children and many other people and so you should and no doubt you would do anything for them.

And when you are gone they will do exactly the same.

To what end/.

polyglide wrote:And to what actual end?.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that but your argument seems to be that if there is nothing after this life then there is no point to life (at least that is what I took to be the inference of your previous question). I find this to be a very weird outlook on life since I think that a lack of an afterlife is what makes this one chance we have so important. So the point to it, as I've already said, is making the most of it, or at least trying to. Some people seem to view hanging on for some paradisaical afterlife as a virtue. They have (to my mind) missed the whole point of life.

polyglide wrote:Of course you love your children and many other people and so you should and no doubt you would do anything for them.

And when you are gone they will do exactly the same.

To what end/.

Life as a whole is like the minutiae that makes it up. By that I mean it's like most things: it's what you make of it (with some obvious caveats).

I understand what happens in life and I repeat if this is all that life is about just exactly what is the point.

polyglide wrote:I understand what happens in life and I repeat if this is all that life is about just exactly what is the point.

42

Correct.

He tries non-stop too does he not Heretic.

I see a very possitive attitude towards my way of thinking when you agree there is no point in life if there is nothing only exactly the same to follow.

Whilst you have seen the darkness after seeing the light and falling for the easy options, I have seen the darkness and much prefer the light

I can well understand the way you feel, if you have been let down in life and feel disillusioned and been brain washed by the scientists who have to change all their ideas and theories on a regular basis, when the actual truth is available think back to when you actually believed in God and look for any sensible reason for not still doing so.

I know people who have changed from God to the Devil and those who have done the opposite and I know who are the happiest and content.