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Commonwealth 'network for future'

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Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by Phoenix One UK on Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Commonwealth 'network for future'

pa.press.net, Updated: 28/10/2011 05:55

...

Asked whether the Commonwealth was outdated, he said: "It is an organisation for the future. We live in a world of networks and this is a great network: a third of the world's population, 54 different countries across six continents. But not just a network, a network with values about promoting human rights and democracy and freedom.

For full text link: http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/commonwealth-network-for-future-8

Unquote: =======================

This debate was started within another forum the date this article was published.

note [Foreign Secretary William Hague] said, ''We want to see the Commonwealth strengthening its role as a standard bearer for human rights and democracy. It remains uniquely placed to do so; the sheer diversity of its membership gives it the potential to speak with a truly global moral authority.''

Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/8854601/David-Cameron-Commonwealth-must-strengthen-human-rights.html

Unquote.

Note Commonwealth nations are pushing to establish a system of export and credit guarantees designed to promote trade and growth for the poorer countries in the 54-member organization.

Quote:

Leaders from the group, which owes its origins to the former British Empire, have met this week in Perth where many hope Europe's financial crisis and growing concerns over growth will lend the meeting renewed relevance, especially among developing nations. Commonwealth countries account for a third of world's population and five of its members sit on the Group of 20 nations.

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203554104577002922751910902.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Unquote.

Note you can acquire a great deal of information directly from the Commonwealth Secretariat's website on

Link: http://www.thecommonwealth.org/

I also noted some europhiles here are pushing the trade arguement as being a benefit of being an EU member. Not so, that argument was shot down in flames long ago.

Here is a direct link to the World Trade Organisation: http://www.wto.org/

If you visit the membership listed therein, note all 27 EU members are als members of the WTO, including Greece. Not one requires the EU for trade, and never did.
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by jackthelad on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:49 pm

Bobby it's nice to to read that you are not a carpet chewing maniac, i wouldn't like to be the one that pushed you over the hill.
It is true what you say, if you have never been bombed, then you won't know what it is like. Our village is close to a town with large marshalling yards, also a tank making factory, and ammunisions. One German aircraft missed it's target alltogether, destroyed a row of houses, killing a number of people, some people never went into the air raid shelters. They wasn't the target, fortunately, their was only one other incident where the Germans dropped their bombs too early or in panic from attacking British fighter planes. They dropped in a field with horses grazing in, don't know what happened to the horses,they were never found.
Present day people though have never experienced any bombing from the air unless you are turned 70 years old, or are living in Iraq, Libya, Afganiststan. the usual type of bombing is ground attacks by terrorists.
I said i dislike the french, i didn't say i hate them though, i have no French friends, but the people who are logical for us to dislike, the Germans, i do have German friends.
Peace Bobby.

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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by bobby on Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:15 pm

Thank you Jack, I will most readily accept your wish for peace.

regarding,my comment re people who havent been bombed, was in fact aimed at your American friends, as they go on about what is and what is not right, yet never in both world wars had enemy and Allied soldiers fighting in their own homes, let alone suffered carpet bombing as did their victims. In 1930 They where planning a war against the UK and Canada, purely for financial reasons, they wanted our trade, their plan then was to fight it on the Canadian mainland, and after the second world war, they set up military bases all over Europe so that the next war against the Russians would not be fought in their Country.
They wouldn't be half so bad if they dropped their attitude, they think they wone both the first and the second world wars, I will agree, the Second World War, probably would have been lost without them eventually coming in, but had Britain and our Allies not held the line up untill then, there would have been nothing for them to get involved with, but when the doughboys entered the fray in 1918, the war was all but over and the end was inevitable without their belated help.
In WW1, they sent a load of polots to France, but no aircraft, so had to use French Neuport 17's and Spad's. I wonder if they ever paid France for said aircraft, as they certainly charged us for every plane, Tank and jeep the British used.


Last edited by Ivan on Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:02 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : had to leave my office)
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by Shirina on Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:58 pm

I mean god forbid America would fight a war in their own country.
I'm not quite sure what you expect here with this remark. If Germany or Italy had been part of North America, perhaps WWII would have been fought here. But they were not. America did not go seeking WWII and, in fact, tried to stay out of it for all the good it did. I suppose this is why I get somewhat vexed when, despite it all, Europeans of all stripes complain about America's late entry into the war and then complain further still about Americans once they arrived. The United States through the good fortune of geography, is nearly impregnable to invasion even now. Back in the early days of America, the government did its utmost to keep Europe out of the Western Hemisphere - and with good reason. Imagine if the French or the Dutch had had colonies in Central or South America during WWII, colonies that would have been turned over to the Axis. This was one reason why America had entertained the idea of wresting Canada from the Brits. As I've said before, WWII was merely the culmination of over a thousand years of nearly perpetual warfare among Europeans, and America did NOT want it spilling over into their turf. Even during WWII, Americans had to put up with German U-Boats hanging out in the St. Lawrence River trying to pick off Canadian ships. That's the kind of thing we did NOT want! Heaven forbid America wanting to be left in peace and left alone. America was well aware of European wars, and some historians correctly argue that the War of 1812 was not an independent war, but merely a single front in the much larger Napoleonic Wars raging in Europe. Americans took great care in keeping it all ... over there.

And why shouldn't they? What country in its right mind welcomes and embraces war on its own territory? Let's face it, politically the US and Europe were very different during the formative years of the United States. Americans saw Europe as being ruled by ancient bloodlines with monarchies, an aristocracy, and social classes strict enough to rival the Indian caste system. We, as Americans, had little in common with authoritarian Europe. Through very careful planning by successive presidents from James Monroe to Theodore Roosevelt, America has made itself unassailable by anything short of a full-on nuclear attack. Any invading force intent upon conquering America wouldn't even get past the US Navy, and if it somehow did, the depleted force that showed up off our shores would be pulverized by the US Air Force. As an American, I'm certainly not going to apologize for not fighting these wars on our soil ... especially when they were not even our wars! I suppose America could have up and left Europe completely after WWII and left a weakened Europe to the tender mercies of Josef Stalin, who just happened to control the largest land force the world had ever seen. As any student of history knows, the Red Army surged across the Ukraine, Prussia, Poland, the Balkans, and into Germany like a Tsunami. Battle-frenzied, angry, and driven by ruthless generals like Georgi Zhukov, only America's atomic bombs kept them from sweeping all the way to Portugal. Europe would merely be exchanging rulership of one madman for another. Believe me, there are millions of young boys who would have much rather been spending their time raising their families back home in the States than standing a lonely post waiting for the Soviets to charge across the Fulda Gap or into West Berlin. You can, perhaps criticize our government and its motives, but for those individual young boys, they stood those posts for YOU because they genuinely wanted Europe to be free.

And what thanks did they get? To be attacked by Italians in Naples? To be told that, when off duty, that they cannot even proudly wear their uniforms because they would invite being a victim of some random act of violence? It makes me wonder if it was all worth it, sometimes. That, perhaps, we should have let Europe - and Russia - deal with Hitler while America dealt with Japan then folded back on itself when it was all over, once again taking up the mantle of isolationism and letting Stalin have his way with Europe.

It should also be pointed out that a government in exile ruling over an occupied nation cannot declare an armistice that holds any real power. Most of the Italian army collapsed by the end of September (the armistice was signed on Sept. 9th, 1943 if I remember correctly) so the Italians were completely unable to defend their own nation. Only the Italian Navy, the Regia Marina, managed to pull off a proper defection to the Allied side. Meanwhile, the German Wehrmacht poured into Italy, and it was they who controlled the country, not an Italian government holed up in Syracuse. It should be noted, too, that many bombing campaigns against Italy were, in fact, called off after the armistice was signed - including a raid by over 500 aircraft against Rome. It's also very easy to ask why a place like Pennabilli was bombed when you're standing on the ground and know without doubt that no Germans are there ... but I think you're asking far too much of the intelligence capabilities of the time. You seem to make the claim that they knew it was free of Germans. Maybe they did - maybe they didn't. Who knows?

But again, perhaps we should have left Italy to the Russians. I'm guessing they would have cared even less about an armistice as long as Germans were occupying Italy. Stalin issued a standing order to the Red Army as it crossed into Germany - "Only the unborn are innocent." The subsequent looting, raping, and wanton murdering that took place afterward was reminiscent of a medieval army's sacking and pillaging campaign. Hundreds of thousands of women were raped, many more were murdered, and tens of thousands more committed suicide. Since Italian troops fought along side the Germans on the Eastern Front, I doubt the Russians would have treated the Italian civilians any differently than they did the German.
Its strange isn't it Jack, how its the people who never had a bomb dropped on them who have the most excuses as to why its OK to bomb allied civillians.
I'm approaching this strictly from a strategic, tactical, and historical perspective - NOT an emotional one, Bobby. I'm looking at it from a much larger vantage point. Don't think for a moment that I don't care about what happened to you and your family. I do. Believe me, when I sometimes watch historical documentaries and hear the stories of survivors, it is not unusual for me to reach for a tissue. It is heartbreaking, and I won't pretend to know what it's like to be bombed out of my home. Yet I would do history a disservice if I argued it from a purely emotional standpoint.
I said to Sharina in another post. I wondered how she would feel' if Japanese forces occupied New York, and the RAF sent Lancs over and bombed New York to buggery, I still haven't had a proper reply to that.

There is no proper reply to that. How could there be? I can't possibly know how I would react in such an extreme case. I do know this, however: You mentioned the attack on 9/11. It's only been 10 years and I have no anger toward Muslims. In fact, I have defended them against numerous bigots - and for some here in the US, the anger over that attack still endures. Mine, however, has not. Oh, I wanted war at first, but my rational side prevailed. How can I be angry and bitter toward all of Islam when the act of 9/11 was carried out by only a few?

I also told you that I lost someone dear to me in a terrorist attack in India, again due to Muslims. I have a personal reason to dislike them. But I don't. I'm sure I can never convince you to let go of such animosity toward Americans and I find that a real shame. I can hate Muslim terrorists, but I cannot hate all of Islam ... just as you can hate the Mustang pilot or the bomber pilots that hit Pennabilli, but you have chosen to hold all of America responsible for it, even though there's a good chance those responsible are no longer on this earth to be blamed.


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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by Shirina on Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:06 pm

They wouldn't be half so bad if they dropped their attitude
And you think Americans are the only ones with an "attitude?" Seriously? I may be an American, Bobby, but genetically, I am half British. I do not have one drop of American blood in my veins. I have family in Britain still; my biological father still lives there in Milton-Keynes. I catch "attitude" all the time from my own family for choosing to live here. Last time I was in the UK, I managed to get into a rather rip-roaring argument with my father that grew heated enough that he and I were both exiled to the laundry room by the rest of the family where we could yell at each other without disturbing everyone else. You can guess what the argument was about and it mirrors the same argument you're putting forth on this board. The non-stop cheekiness I receive from Brit family and friends is intolerable sometimes.
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by astra on Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:41 pm

Shirina, I think also it comes down to the differing "sence of humour" Humour being loosely stated. -

Take the time when the Durham Light Infantry were surrounded in Korea by an overriding multitude of Enemy. The American General asked the British Officer if the situation was controllable, and the Brit replied "well we are in a bit of a pickle" British understatement, which the American thought that the situation was containable and the Brigade of the DLI wiped out.

I have already stated the 2 x F111 jets which crashed in the Campsie Hills, and an American Officer said to my Ambulance Driver father (I followed in his footsteps for a while) that "you Jocks put the Campsies there deliberately." My father having been Air Traffic Controller at Habbaniya Iraq just after the seige (having lost pals in Lancaster, Tempest, Boulton Paul Defiant and Avro York crashes) was NONE too pleased. The American officer was letting off steam/grief/hysteria in his own way - which was entitely inappropriate in the present company.
you will have come across many instances of this elsewhere, but one liners are usually out of place whereever they are voiced.

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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by astradt1 on Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:03 pm

Perhaps many of the post on this thread should be moved to a new one about World War II......
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by astra on Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:30 pm

But was it not WW2 that cemented the Commonwealth?

Did WW2 not prove how effective many nations PULLING TOGETHER can be?

Is this not the example to be followed right now?
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by jackthelad on Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:49 pm

astra wrote:But was it not WW2 that cemented the Commonwealth?

Did WW2 not prove how effective many nations PULLING TOGETHER can be?

Is this not the example to be followed right now?

That's why many nations pulling to gether has caused a financial melt down in the Eurozone, we are not in the Eurozone, but are in the European Union, and it still affects us in a way. The Commonwealth of nations in my opinion was and is a different kettle of fish, better for us politicaly and financialy, and the people of this Commonwealth of Nations are people we can trust compleatly. Proven over two world wars and many minor skirmishes, in those i trust, France and Germany never.
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by astra on Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:13 pm

I do agree Jack.
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by ROB on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:44 am

astra wrote:
... but one liners are usually out of place whereever they are voiced.

Or by whomever they are voiced. The comment voiced to your father was, and is, despicable.
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by ROB on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:45 am

astra wrote:
My father having been Air Traffic Controller at Habbaniya Iraq just after the seige (having lost pals in Lancaster, Tempest, Boulton Paul Defiant and Avro York crashes)…

Percentage-wise, Lancaster aviators suffered some of the greatest casualties of World War II. Those of us alive today in a world made safe for democracy ought never to forget. God bless your father, Astra.
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by ROB on Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:44 am


Jack,

This also aired 15 November 2011 on the Military History Channel. As with the program previously posted, the YouTube version of The Lost Evidence – “Battle of Britain” is in five parts.

I post this in honor of and with gratitude to you and all Brits who experienced the German blitz in any way. God bless you all.

 
The Lost Evidence – “Battle of Britain”, part 1
 
The Lost Evidence – “Battle of Britain”, part 2
 
The Lost Evidence – “Battle of Britain”, part 3
 
The Lost Evidence – “Battle of Britain”, part 4
 
The Lost Evidence – “Battle of Britain”, part 5
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by ROB on Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:00 am


Quotes from The Lost Evidence – “Battle of Britain”, part 5:

“Winston Churchill, who is visiting RAF Fighter Command Headquarters, asks, ‘Where are the reserves?’ He is told, ‘Sir, there are none.’”

“In his account after the war, Churchill says, ‘The odds, great, the margin, small, the stakes, infinite.’”
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:44 am

Churchill says, ‘The odds, great, the margin, small, the stakes, infinite

Before the war, Chamberlain had said, "Where the fcuk is Silesia?"
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by jackthelad on Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:10 pm

Jewish refugees who fled Germany before the start of the war buried gold in jars in there garden in London because they feared a German invasion.
Banker Martin Sultzbacher had put the money in the bank, he was declared an enemy of the state, he was deported leaving the money in the bank. His brother decided the money was not safe in the bank so buried it in the garden. (something i don't understand why hadn't they deported the whole family
Tragically the family were killed when there home received a direct hit during the Blitz, (no escaping from Adolph then).
Martin returned to England in 1942, he didn't know where the coins were.
The place later became a residential care home, the jars were discovered 70 years later when a man called Terence Castle was digging a frog pond in the garden.
When the coins were found Martins son Max was traced, Max who is 81 years old said his dad Martin had died in 1981. Max is a correspondent for the Association of Jewish Refugees living in Jerusalem.
There is to be an auction of the 80 $20 dollar coins, dated from 1850 to 1913, they are expected to fetch a £1000 each.
Max says the money will be shared between him, three siblings and the finder, and the person that located them.
Don't know if this story will go down like a bomb with any of you, thought you might be interested seeing we have done a lot disscussing about bombing lately.

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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by jackthelad on Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:10 pm

Sepp Blatter is to resign from FIFA, only kidding, they have more chance of raising the Titanic, than getting Blatter to resign. It would take an uprising in the FIFA organisation to get him to go, can't see it though, they are all cast from the same mould.
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:26 pm

All-expenses-paid trips all over the world, meeting in tropical resorts with five-star hotels. Sharing a joke with old friends before a photo-call, and all the publicity you could desire.

What's not to like about being a member of FIFA?
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by keenobserver1 on Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:09 pm

In the age of globalisation, and the ever nearing disintegration of the EU......hankering, bleary eyed about the once splendid days of the commonwealth, returning to former glories ruling over a quarter of the population and land on the planet.......tales of Kipling, Britannia ruling the waves and the Sun never setting................

Or will the commonwealth see as it really is............ The Empire Strikes Back!
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by Stox 16 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:04 am

keenobserver1 wrote:In the age of globalisation, and the ever nearing disintegration of the EU......hankering, bleary eyed about the once splendid days of the commonwealth, returning to former glories ruling over a quarter of the population and land on the planet.......tales of Kipling, Britannia ruling the waves and the Sun never setting................

Or will the commonwealth see as it really is............ The Empire Strikes Back!

commonwealth today is little more than a talking shop between African states and the more powerful western states. with little happening at the end. its day are numbered in my view.
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by astra on Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:32 pm

Funny thing is .............................................


......................... ALL these countries want our handouts.


Do they want to keep recieving said handouts??

there has been a disgusting one-way traffic of shed-loads of cash for the last 60 years, now is the time for payback!

I see no reason why my granddaughters should be expected to pay for actions of my great great great grandfather!!

(It's not as if we did not give them telegraph, railway, and organised record keeping of population etc)
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by True Blue on Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:37 am

astra wrote:Funny thing is .............................................


......................... ALL these countries want our handouts.


Do they want to keep recieving said handouts??

That depends... does high street still want African goods at unrealistically low prices ensuring that ordinary Africans live what Dickens wrote of your Industrial Revolution?

Are you aware of the substandard working conditions and pay Africans endure so that high street thrives?
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:13 am

Equally valid is the question, "Are the Chinese aware?"
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by astra on Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:24 pm

Are you aware of the substandard working conditions and pay Africans endure so that high street thrives?


ARE you kidding me?


Here in the North East of England, 3 Clothing Manufacturers who supply M&S moved to Tunisia, leaving many hundreds on the dole here.

It is usual to hear of Call Centres relocating to the Philipines and India but the work gone from here to Africa is a silent deluge that has not been brought to the public's notice.
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Re: Commonwealth 'network for future'

Post by ROB on Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:33 pm

astra wrote:
It is usual to hear of Call Centres relocating to the Philipines and India but the work gone from here to Africa is a silent deluge that has not been brought to the public's notice.

Yes, yes, yes, Mumbai and now somewhere in the Philippines. It’s past frustration time for me; I moved on to action in 2011.

You see, that damned contraption that rings, and the service that makes it ring, both belong to me. Kind of like Mick Dundee told his lady in Crocodile Dundee II, “belong-a-Mick”, those two things which make up my telephone system “belong-a-Rock!”

American USV companies seldom have offices in the UK, Oz, or NZ; if they did, they would be on the good to go list I’m about to describe.

Since my telephone “belong-a-Rock” (damnit), I ain’t talking to anybody I don’t want to talk to on what belongs to me. When a call comes in with a suspicious accent, I demand that the caller identify their geographic location. When India or the Philippine is the reply, I calmly tell the caller that my time speaking with an agent of their company will be invested in speaking with someone in and from North America. I then define North America for the caller as north of the Rio Grande all the way up. That means the US and Canada, and that’s it.

Why the US? (1) We need jobs here, insourcing, not outsourcing, (2) the book English spoken by Indian and Filipino mars communication, and (3) Indian and Filipino callers are usually rude, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay for someone to use my telephone system to talk rudely to me.

That’s how I do it now, every time, no matter what the callers recite from their cue cards.

Almost forgot. Why Canada? I’ll explain that with one true story. In 1979, after the idiots took control of Iran, many Americans USV were trapped, but Canadians were free to leave Whole lotta extra Canadians boarded flights from Tehran to Lester Pearson International (or whatever it was called then), some with “Sous Cah-line-uh” accents, some with “Bah-stahn” accents, one or three with “Tex-ziz” accesnts, and whole lot more neo-Canadians. In fact, the Canadian embassy was passing out passports like bubble gum!

Then when this horde of neo-Canadians reached home across the way, and journeyed across the border at Niagara Falls, Ontario and New York, they looked back across the border and saw American flags, the Stars and Stripes, draped over Canadian-side cliffs, along with a huge sign that said, “WELCOME HOME.”

Anytime Canadians needs someone to “get their back” make a call, and I’ll get there some kind of way. In my computer file of every company that has finally connected me with a North American representative is a note that says “Will accept calls from the US and Canada only/” And I stick to that like white sticks to rice.
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