Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

by blueturando Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:09 am

First topic message reminder :

Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010. It certainly looks as though the Conservatives have recieved a boost from David Cameron’s veto at the European summit. There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck. How is it that the tories can be level or ahead in the polls when they are having to make some very difficult and painfull decisions to try and bring down the deficit, the umemployment figures are the worst for 17 years. We have had strikes, pension reforms, VAT rises and the veto in Europe etc.......

It looks like Ed Millaband is not liked or trusted by many of the elecorate. In my opinion he looks weak, sounds weak and has no policies to speak of....Everytime he tries to get the better of Cameron in PMQ'S he ends looking like a fool with Cameron destroying him. Ed Balls is no better...he comes across as an odious man with no substance, who would probably stab his own wife in the back if it meant he gained more power.

Labour missed a trick in not voting in Eds brother David into the leadership role. David would have given Cameron a better run for his money and I believe he is a better politician than Ed too. With the two Eds at the helm I believe Labour are not a viable opposition right now and one or both could be dispatched by the party sooner rather than later

by sickchip Wed May 02, 2012 8:46 pm

Oftenwrong,

I use the Ouroboros to symbolise neo-liberal capitalism devouring itself....those at the top (the head) not realising that by feeding off those at the bottom (the tail) they are slowly killing themselves/destroying their means of survival: ie, their system does not, and cannot, work.

..of course I may change my mind at any time and use it to mean anything else I see fit.

by oftenwrong Wed May 02, 2012 10:38 pm

Yep. Things are tough all over.

by sickchip Wed May 02, 2012 11:27 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Yep. Things are tough all over.

You're not wrong there.

by Stox 16 Thu May 03, 2012 1:40 am

bobby wrote:Blueturando, the last thing Mel is, is a fence sitter, his flag is well and trully pinned to the Labour flag pole as is mine. How dare you assume that any moves to help business is Conservative and only Conservative, Is it not your Conservatives with their lap dog Lib-Dems who are failing miserably when it comes to assisting business and have put the Nation into yet another Tory Manufactured Recession. I knew you could be a bit naive but I never thought you to be stupid. Saying that, in your Tory mind it then follows that anything caring is Labour, or is it possible for a position somewhere in the centre is where we should be. We need policies that looks after both business and the workforce, the closest we ever got to that was in the Blair Years as well you know, you also know that the party you chose and apparently still do, are a Party hell bent on destroying the foundations of the UK, and the way they do it is by delivering policies that are either impossible to reverse or would be prohibitively too expensive, and couldn’t be reversed until the economy can stand the cost.

You say that Labour will not say if they will or wont reverse any Tory policies. How the bloody hell can they say that when they have absolutely no idea of the state Britain will be in after the next General Election, just look at the damage they (Conservatives) have done in just two years, it beggars belief as what they will phuck up in another three.

I am extremely disappointed in you, you said they (Conservatives) need a good kick in the teeth, but still peddle the same anti Labour crap in support of your beloved Tories. I will not be taken in by you a second time, I now know exactly what you are and that is a Tory.

Like your Tory mates you twist and spin lies, and although you have no defence of your chosen Party, still continue with untruth’s regarding Labour. All I seem to read in most of your posts, is Labour will do this, Labour will do that, with loads of if buts or maybe’s. All of your complaints about Labour are merely your interpretation of things and seen through the eyes of a full blooded Tory.

Hi Bobby
Can I just say as a business man myself I could not agree more with every word you have written here. one of the best things the Tory party could ever do his stop all this stiring up trouble between the UK workforce and companies. it drives me crazy. the very last thing we need is all this utter rubbish. why is it that Tories always take it as read that all business men or woman are there supporters? Well this one is not and nor are you bobby.

i have nothing at all against the Blair government or for the Brown government. I found them good for my business and kept the UK economy on a level playing field. I could work out where they was going with there economic policy with out having to spend hours trying to read there minds. The Bank of England was also a helpful move and stopped the mess like black wednesday when interest rates hit 15%. while Tory ministers played the blame game.

The only real failure was not to back UK manfacturing sector more and readdress the city of London. what's more it was nothing to do with any of the world wide government it was a world wide banking crisis that has left us where we are today. if anything the Bank of England failed to check the banking sector.

WELL POSTED BOBBY AND FULLY SUPPORT YOU VIEWS ON THIS ISSUE Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time? - Page 14 Images11

Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time? - Page 14 Images11

by Stox 16 Thu May 03, 2012 2:03 am

Hi Mel
your quite right in what you have said like bobby. I wrote the following not so long ago.

Maybe our Tory supporters would be very wise to read and understand how shambolic this latest economic data is before they huff and puff about not liking what there own economy looks like which is based on there OWN economic data? However, I am 100% sure that our Tory friends will once more come out with more trivially superficial economic explanation or how they dislike economic data or lists or any other superficial points that come into there heads at this time.
Doubtless we will hear that this financial crisis is not rooted in long term Tory party and Neoconservative ideology that is based on 30 years of failed Neoconservative economic policy of 1983 city big bang. As pointed out too them by the Governor of the Bank of England in his interview given to the Times Newspaper in 2011. but in the failure of the past 13 years of the last Government.

However, one of the most invariable economic tests of whether an opponent is wrong is whether they are forced to distort there hopeless economic position they are criticising . If an opponent has a powerful and effective economic argument then they should be more than able to back there position they are attacking by using there own economic data to support there view? Yet what we have here is Tory party supporters who claim frequently that there austerity policy with No GDP growth policy is in fact working? They time after time fail to show how there own Government supplied OBR data backs there economic position? While criticising how there own data is provided to them? Then after all else has failed they are forced to distort the topic by asking a new question of there own, as if know one will notice the fact they have utterly failed to provided any sort economic data from there own data that was provided by there own OBR or ONS data.

All this huffing and puffing they are doing has lead me to believe they have no answer at all to the currant economic crisis. As there is such a feast of available data around that now shows there only economic austerity policy has utterly failed. Its also very clear that any austerity policy can or will rescue any wayward nations finance prospects.

What has also become very clear from the feast of available data from around the world is that government spending is to some extent only part of the problem. By far the larger economic issue is the lack of revenue as governments around the globe have tried to cut taxes of business and the rich, while creating revenue holes that have made the recession only worse. Its very clear at this moment in time that poor and working families are unquestionably bearing the brunt of the economic suffering. Economic data also clearly now shows that austerity measures are further crippling the middle class families. While the Economic elites in banking and finance sector have been consuming the vast majority of all UK Quantitative easing totalling some £350 Billion pounds and UK taxpayer pick up some £157 billion overspending and borrowing with no substantial sign of any UK recovery taking place. While the banking and finance sector shareholders have taken no liability for there banks that made bad gambling bets while running undercapitalised businesses deals that they hoped would make them a fine profit on and that would of added to there end of year dividend.

So for me the financial and banking sector and it shareholders should be made totally liable for the actions of there own boards of directors and not the general public who had no say in there actions. I note with great interest that Conservative Home page has stated that Nationalised banks should have had compensation to banking shareholders who’s share value has fallen by more than 90%. Well my answer to them is that you wish to gamble on the stock market, then you should expect too not only pick up dividends in the good years but take full debt liability in the bad times.
Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time? - Page 14 Images17

Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time? - Page 14 Images17

by Mel Thu May 03, 2012 8:49 am

Good one Stoxy.

by Redflag Thu May 03, 2012 8:55 am

Mel wrote:Good one Stoxy.

His cartoons are always great Mel and very APT.

by sickchip Thu May 03, 2012 10:19 am

Stox 16 wrote:Hi Mel
your quite right in what you have said like bobby. I wrote the following not so long ago.

Maybe our Tory supporters would be very wise to read and understand how shambolic this latest economic data is before they huff and puff about not liking what there own economy looks like which is based on there OWN economic data? However, I am 100% sure that our Tory friends will once more come out with more trivially superficial economic explanation or how they dislike economic data or lists or any other superficial points that come into there heads at this time.
Doubtless we will hear that this financial crisis is not rooted in long term Tory party and Neoconservative ideology that is based on 30 years of failed Neoconservative economic policy of 1983 city big bang. As pointed out too them by the Governor of the Bank of England in his interview given to the Times Newspaper in 2011. but in the failure of the past 13 years of the last Government.

However, one of the most invariable economic tests of whether an opponent is wrong is whether they are forced to distort there hopeless economic position they are criticising . If an opponent has a powerful and effective economic argument then they should be more than able to back there position they are attacking by using there own economic data to support there view? Yet what we have here is Tory party supporters who claim frequently that there austerity policy with No GDP growth policy is in fact working? They time after time fail to show how there own Government supplied OBR data backs there economic position? While criticising how there own data is provided to them? Then after all else has failed they are forced to distort the topic by asking a new question of there own, as if know one will notice the fact they have utterly failed to provided any sort economic data from there own data that was provided by there own OBR or ONS data.

All this huffing and puffing they are doing has lead me to believe they have no answer at all to the currant economic crisis. As there is such a feast of available data around that now shows there only economic austerity policy has utterly failed. Its also very clear that any austerity policy can or will rescue any wayward nations finance prospects.

What has also become very clear from the feast of available data from around the world is that government spending is to some extent only part of the problem. By far the larger economic issue is the lack of revenue as governments around the globe have tried to cut taxes of business and the rich, while creating revenue holes that have made the recession only worse. Its very clear at this moment in time that poor and working families are unquestionably bearing the brunt of the economic suffering. Economic data also clearly now shows that austerity measures are further crippling the middle class families. While the Economic elites in banking and finance sector have been consuming the vast majority of all UK Quantitative easing totalling some £350 Billion pounds and UK taxpayer pick up some £157 billion overspending and borrowing with no substantial sign of any UK recovery taking place. While the banking and finance sector shareholders have taken no liability for there banks that made bad gambling bets while running undercapitalised businesses deals that they hoped would make them a fine profit on and that would of added to there end of year dividend.

So for me the financial and banking sector and it shareholders should be made totally liable for the actions of there own boards of directors and not the general public who had no say in there actions. I note with great interest that Conservative Home page has stated that Nationalised banks should have had compensation to banking shareholders who’s share value has fallen by more than 90%. Well my answer to them is that you wish to gamble on the stock market, then you should expect too not only pick up dividends in the good years but take full debt liability in the bad times.

It should be noted that the word tory could be replaced with the word labour in the above post......the words tory and labour are interchangeable - since they both hold the same core principles and beliefs re:the economy and what model it should follow, ie. they both support the notion of neo-liberalism and free market economies, ie. they both support making the rich richer and poor poorer, ie they both support perpetually increasing inequality.

by bobby Thu May 03, 2012 11:16 am

sickchip said: "It should be noted that the word tory could be replaced with the word labour in the above post......the words tory and labour are interchangeable - since they both hold the same core principles and beliefs re:the economy and what model it should follow, ie. they both support the notion of neo-liberalism and free market economies, ie. they both support making the rich richer and poor poorer, ie they both support perpetually increasing inequality."

And exactly who should that nonsense be noted by. It has been said many time that the pay differential did increase and I wont argue with that. But any improvements in workers pay has to come from the increase in business by the Company, or where else do you think the money will come from. Or do you in your way of seeing things think that as soon as there is growth, the cash benefits of that growth should be paid to the working staff.

When I started in business I personally gambled everything including my homes, and twice I lost due to Tory Recessions and twice I lost my Houses. My staff gambled sweet phuck all, so now you think they should have the same wealth as I now enjoy. My only duty to them is to fairly recompense them for their expertise and time they sell me, and believe me I do that more than fairly.

Your ridiculous assumption that the Labour party is anything like the filthy Tories is quite frankly ridiculous and something I would only expect to hear from a communist, so as I said before there’s a good chouce for people who think the same as you.

It is not Labours fault that some business men/women act unscrupulously when things go well for them. All Governments can do is to create a system that enables employers to earn and pay their staff better, its not their fault if many of the employers then want all the benefits for themselves. The fault is with the greed of individuals, not the Government that enabled the growth.

by Mel Thu May 03, 2012 11:28 am

Wrong again sickchip, New Labour made the rich richer--agreed. However they made the poor and the middle classes also richer. That is why the "gap" was allegedly still the same until now wher it has indeed widened in just two years.

If you are so unhappy with both parties, which party will you vote for and what purpose will that vote achieve? except to possibly assist the bloody Tories again.

Read my post yesterday at 7.07

by oftenwrong Thu May 03, 2012 11:39 am

As a mere Voter, of no interest to Politicians during the period between Elections except as a source of Tax revenue, I am constantly put in mind of a newspaper cartoon depicting a pair of wretches imprisoned in chains hanging halfway up the wall in some mediaeval dungeon.

One is saying to the other, "Do you want to hear my escape plan?"

by sickchip Thu May 03, 2012 12:15 pm

bobby,

.My staff gambled sweet phuck all, so now you think they should have the same wealth as I now enjoy

I don't recall saying that. Can you find a post where I have and quote it please?

You really oughtn't exaggerate - it does your argument no favours.

-and then you resort to bandying the word communist about....why? What has that got to do with anything said here?

by bobby Thu May 03, 2012 12:34 pm

sickchip said: I don't recall saying that. Can you find a post where I have and quote it please?

You seem to have a hell of a lot to say about wealth distribution, so perhaps you in you infinite wisdom will be able to tell me how much of my earned wealth I should give to my employee's. Should it be a fixed sum, or perhaps a percentage, or should I just carry on as I am and pay a more than fair ammount in cash with very good conditions for an extreemly good workforce or be governed by some Government agency.

sickchip said: -and then you resort to bandying the word communist about....why? What has that got to do with anything said here?

It has as much to do on here as calling Labour Thatcherite or Tory. Not a lot.

by sickchip Thu May 03, 2012 12:35 pm

In the 70's UK a CEO earned 10x the average worker....by 2007 a CEO earned 100x as much as the average worker.

Clearly something all governments, tory or labour, support.

by sickchip Thu May 03, 2012 12:39 pm

It has as much to do on here as calling Labour Thatcherite or Tory.

Well they didn't reverse tory policies in '97 and won't if they're elected again in 2015.....no doubt there'll be some excuse for why they have to adhere to the tory script.

by sickchip Thu May 03, 2012 12:43 pm

bobby,

.My staff gambled sweet phuck all, so now you think they should have the same wealth as I now enjoy

I don't recall saying that. Can you find a post where I have and quote it please?

by witchfinder Thu May 03, 2012 12:54 pm

It apperars to widely assumed that there are two paths in which Labour can take, the first path been the one that Neil Kinnock, John Smith and Tony Blair set out on - "New Labour"; And the alternative been a so called return to "true Labour values".

What exactly is meant by true Labour values ?

Do these people want a return to the red flag, commrades and brothers, union leaders sat in number 10 downing street telling the PM how the country must be run, nationalize everything and bash private enterprise. ?
If this is what is meant by a "return" to Labour values, then Ime out of here, along with millions of other Labour voters - as The Sun once stated, last one out turn the light out.

by bobby Thu May 03, 2012 1:05 pm

sickchiup said: Well they didn't reverse tory policies in '97 and won't if they're elected again in 2015.....no doubt there'll be some excuse for why they have to adhere to the tory script.

In 97 Labours manifesto was totally anti Conservative, and in the first term over 80% of that manifesto was implimented, if my memory serves I believe it was 84%. Not a bad record in my book, but obviously not enough for you.

Ed Miliband has apologised for Labours shortfalls and yes there were some. Please sick chip tell me how you know exactly what Labour will do in three years time, I am very interested as if I could do that I’d quit business and turn to the Gee-Gee’s. Your ability to miss read the past and make up the future is the same problem blueturando has, only he has an excuse, he’s a Tory, what’s yours.

My staff gambled sweet phuck all, so now you think they should have the same wealth as I now enjoy

sick chip said: I don't recall saying that. Can you find a post where I have and quote it please?

Of course I cant find such a post, it was me that said it. If you read the past as well as you read the present, no wonder you’ve got it all wrong, so what chance have you with reading the future?

by sickchip Thu May 03, 2012 1:49 pm

[i]Ed Miliband has apologised for Labours shortfalls and yes there were some.[/i]

bobby...... from exaggeration to modesty so quickly?

by blueturando Thu May 03, 2012 3:39 pm

sickchip said: "It should be noted that the word tory could be replaced with the word labour in the above post......the words tory and labour are interchangeable - since they both hold the same core principles and beliefs re:the economy and what model it should follow, ie. they both support the notion of neo-liberalism and free market economies, ie. they both support making the rich richer and poor poorer, ie they both support perpetually increasing inequality."

Be careful Sickchip......The truth hurts for a good few posters on here, that's why they get angry with you.....The truth is an inconvenience

by oftenwrong Thu May 03, 2012 5:15 pm

Is this a good time to list the achievements of the Tory-led Coalition?

by bobby Thu May 03, 2012 6:51 pm

blueturando. You are a Tory, so dont try telling us about truth and lies.

And as OW sugested :

Is this a good time to list the achievements of the Tory-led Coalition?

by Redflag Thu May 03, 2012 7:23 pm

bobby wrote:blueturando. You are a Tory, so dont try telling us about truth and lies.

And as OW sugested :

Is this a good time to list the achievements of the Tory-led Coalition?

Hi bobby i can list the Tory-led Coalition thats easy, Double dip Recession and Inflation there you go bobby that is the sum total of this Tory led Gov't.

by Mel Thu May 03, 2012 9:46 pm

Hello sickchip, are you ignoring my post and the question therein 11:28 today on this thread. Or is it that you are unable to bring yoursef to find an answer?
This is the second time you have ignored my comments and questions. Perhaps you are too wrapped up in your own input to be bothered.

by bobby Fri May 04, 2012 1:24 am

Redflag said: Hi bobby i can list the Tory-led Coalition thats easy, Double dip Recession and Inflation there you go bobby that is the sum total of this Tory led Gov't.

Hello Red, yes you have it in one, or should I say two in this case.

by Redflag Fri May 04, 2012 10:09 am

bobby wrote:Redflag said: Hi bobby i can list the Tory-led Coalition thats easy, Double dip Recession and Inflation there you go bobby that is the sum total of this Tory led Gov't.

Hello Red, yes you have it in one, or should I say two in this case.

Hi bobby we did well last night I sat up until 4.00am then I fell asleep, but had seen enough to send me off to a pleasant night sleep, something that would have evaded Scam..er..on and Clegg.

by oftenwrong Fri May 04, 2012 12:21 pm

A good result, and hopefully a firmer base upon which to build a Labour Party which people feel they can trust with the economy.

Since two out of three voters chose the Apathy Party however, Ed Milliband still has a hill to climb before the next General Election.

by Mel Fri May 04, 2012 1:31 pm

"Since two out of three voters chose the Apathy Party however, Ed Milliband still has a hill to climb before the next General Election."

Agreed OW. You have been proven correct when you have stated several times that Ed is biding his time. He is doing very well with of course a lot of assistance from the useless double act currently in power.

by blueturando Fri May 04, 2012 1:53 pm

Since two out of three voters chose the Apathy Party however, Ed Milliband still has a hill to climb before the next General Election

Ed won't make it that far, unless Labour want to lose the next GE that is....but all is not lost, Tony Blair is making a comeback Question

by Redflag Fri May 04, 2012 1:55 pm

Mel wrote:"Since two out of three voters chose the Apathy Party however, Ed Milliband still has a hill to climb before the next General Election."

Agreed OW. You have been proven correct when you have stated several times that Ed is biding his time. He is doing very well with of course a lot of assistance from the useless double act currently in power.

Thank you Mel and OW who I think has put his finger in the right place, we do have a mountain to climb before 2015 so that gives Ed the chance to see what he can do about voter apathy that is one hell of a task to overcome, but after the last six months I have seen what Ed can do and that tells me he will SUCCEED.

by tlttf Fri May 04, 2012 5:12 pm

Yep, that's why he's made such an issue over supporting Livingstone, the man's a genius.

by **Ivan** Fri May 04, 2012 5:20 pm

Instead of snide and grubby snippets, perhaps one of these days tlttf will post something original, well argued and interesting, but I won't hold my breath waiting for it.
Sleep

by tlttf Fri May 04, 2012 5:30 pm

I'm waiting for you to lead the way Ivan. By the way what's wrong with pointing out Milibands love of Livingstone. Apparently he nearly got reported as a stalker?

by tlttf Fri May 04, 2012 5:36 pm

Interesting story about Ed's popularity today.

Labour leader Ed Miliband was hit with an egg during a walkabout in Southampton today.

The politician was giving a TV interview when a man in a hat came through the throng and slapped the egg on to his shoulder. The egg broke on to Mr Miliband's jacket, which he quickly removed and gave to an aide as the man ran off down the street.

He finished the interview in just a shirt and tie, made an exit and went back to his car.

He was there to celebrate Labour's victory in Southampton and declared: "We are back in the South."

You couldn't make it up (though some of you try very hard).

by jackthelad Fri May 04, 2012 6:57 pm

tlttf wrote:Interesting story about Ed's popularity today.

Labour leader Ed Miliband was hit with an egg during a walkabout in Southampton today.

The politician was giving a TV interview when a man in a hat came through the throng and slapped the egg on to his shoulder. The egg broke on to Mr Miliband's jacket, which he quickly removed and gave to an aide as the man ran off down the street.

He finished the interview in just a shirt and tie, made an exit and went back to his car.

He was there to celebrate Labour's victory in Southampton and declared: "We are back in the South."

You couldn't make it up (though some of you try very hard).

One disgruntled and dejected Tory, must have been expecting the result though to have brought an egg with him,
and the egg wasn't thrown, it was in the sad losers hand when he patted Ed's shoulder, what's that saying, beware of Greeks bearing gifts.
Anyway you sad losers shouldn't take much comfort from the egg incident, you can't make an omlette with one egg, you would need a least two.

by oftenwrong Fri May 04, 2012 8:10 pm

Sad people have to find consolation where they can. There isn't much joy in the Coalition ranks today. But they'll get over it.

by Redflag Fri May 04, 2012 8:54 pm

tlttf wrote:I'm waiting for you to lead the way Ivan. By the way what's wrong with pointing out Milibands love of Livingstone. Apparently he nearly got reported as a stalker?

I have a topic for you to talk about tittf, the love between Scam..er..on and Doris !!!!!!!!!!! NOT.

by Mel Fri May 04, 2012 9:59 pm

tlttf. "The politician was giving a TV interview when a man in a hat came through the throng and slapped the egg on to his shoulder."

That could well have been you tlttf wearing just a hat and a THONG. Very Happy

by tlttf Sat May 05, 2012 10:50 am

Or it could be you melly, minus the thong, just to prove what a girlie/boy you are?

by oftenwrong Sat May 05, 2012 11:57 am

Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

The question was answered yesterday. Ed Miliband has been confirmed in his position by those sweeping Labour gains over the coalition parties, and all things being equal, will lead the Labour Party into the next General Election.

Before then, the PLP has to make itself look electable again, in the same way as it did during the 1990s. The newspapers tell us that Tony Blair is seeking a return to UK politics. Whatever will he do? We can't afford to pay him anything.

by Mel Sat May 05, 2012 9:19 pm

"Whatever will he do? We can't afford to pay him anything."

Ah well, he wont be returning then. The poor sod needs the money. Smile

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