Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

First topic message reminder :

Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010. It certainly looks as though the Conservatives have recieved a boost from David Cameron’s veto at the European summit. There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck. How is it that the tories can be level or ahead in the polls when they are having to make some very difficult and painfull decisions to try and bring down the deficit, the umemployment figures are the worst for 17 years. We have had strikes, pension reforms, VAT rises and the veto in Europe etc.......

It looks like Ed Millaband is not liked or trusted by many of the elecorate. In my opinion he looks weak, sounds weak and has no policies to speak of....Everytime he tries to get the better of Cameron in PMQ'S he ends looking like a fool with Cameron destroying him. Ed Balls is no better...he comes across as an odious man with no substance, who would probably stab his own wife in the back if it meant he gained more power.

Labour missed a trick in not voting in Eds brother David into the leadership role. David would have given Cameron a better run for his money and I believe he is a better politician than Ed too. With the two Eds at the helm I believe Labour are not a viable opposition right now and one or both could be dispatched by the party sooner rather than later

tlttf wrote:Hows Ed coming along, or is it time to rename the thread?

Ed is fine and Labour are looking good in the polls, by the way have you seen how low in the polls Scam..er..on and the Tory party are?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/9236480/If-Ed-Miliband-can-be-a-man-for-these-times-he-may-yet-be-PM.html Gosh, the telegraph isn't cosying up to Dave quite so much lately.

As Herr Cameron shrinks in stature, Ed Miliband is standing Taller, and behaving in a manner Herr Cameron would do well to emulate.

Adele Carlyon

The right wing press is in a complete muddle, the Daily Mail, which once backed Oswald Mosely is very unhappy at the coalition, they realy do not like those lilly livered, left wing Liberals, instead they want to see REAL Conservative policies - bash the immigrants, slander the French and keep homosexuals away from our children.

The Murdoch press - well, need I say any more

And the others are very uncomfortable, they now know that after two whole years in power, the UK economy under this government is now in a worse state than when they took office, will one of the Conservative papers break ranks and call for a change of direction, policy, chancellor or even leader. ?

You must read different papers to me witchy.

tlttf wrote:You must read different papers to me witchy.

Take you pick tittf of which newspaper you like

I think your making my point for me Red!

My turn to agree with you, landy. It's not possible to name a National newspaper that unthinkingly supports all things Tory, as used to be the case in the 1980s.

There may be a reason for that.

Although David Cameron thinks of himself as the natural sucessor to Thatcher, he seems to have sold his inheritance for a mess of pottage.

tlttf wrote:I think your making my point for me Red!

When it goes to this stage its game up in my view, as every road leads one way from now on. as its just get worse from now on

Your right, however they've still got over 2 years to pop up with the right sweet to offer the voters.

oftenwrong wrote:My turn to agree with you, landy. It's not possible to name a National newspaper that unthinkingly supports all things Tory, as used to be the case in the 1980s.

There may be a reason for that.

Although David Cameron thinks of himself as the natural sucessor to Thatcher, he seems to have sold his inheritance for a mess of pottage.

Thatchers dreams of economic glory all died in the banking crash of 2008. there is know inheritance for them any more it all over. thank god it is too.

tlttf wrote:Your right, however they've still got over 2 years to pop up with the right sweet to offer the voters.

I Think is will take more than two years tifff. time and good will has run out for them. people have seen them for what they are now. the last budget saw to that. what's more Tory infighting will only get worse as the time goes on. as they too can see he is dead meat. for them its dead simple now. its long live the king the king is dead tiff

It should be noted Ed seems very squirmish, and uncomfortable, about labours association with the Unions........it's as though he would like to place greater distance between his version of labour and the unions. This does not bode well.......I suspect labour would simply carry on with a neo-liberal capitalist agenda.

Read this article in todays Daily Telegraph by the Rev Peter Mullen

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/petermullen/100154607/this-conservative-party-is-more-socialist-than-any-government-i-have-seen-in-my-lifetime/

The "hang em and flog em brigade" and the traditional Tory voters are begining to defect to UKIP in quite large numbers, which of course makes sense, as Mr Farage has said he would like to abandon the minimum wage and strip away employment rights - PROPER Conservative policies.

sickchip

The left wing, or socialist end of the Labour Party kept them out of office for 18 very long and very sad years, that particular side of the Labour Party has been conclusively proven to be a failure.

On the other hand, the remodernising of the party by Kinnock, Smith and Blair saw electoral success - the left is dead, god save social democracy.

witchfinder,

Ugh! That was one of the most horrible articles I've read for some time - although the Guardians editorial over the weekend praising Iain Duncan Smith as being the one man in government 'standing up for the poor' takes the biscuit this week.

witchfinder wrote:sickchip

The left wing, or socialist end of the Labour Party kept them out of office for 18 very long and very sad years

...only because of an ignorant, brow beaten electorate that didn't understand that themselves, their kids, and grandkids, were being led up the garden path into a festering neo-liberal mess. People are starting to wake up from that dream as it morphs into a nightmare.

The labour party need to get back to their socialist roots. I would rather they'd have retained their integrity then sold out to money, profit, etc just to get elected. It's like an x-factor contestent doing a cover of a song merely because it was recently popular - the labour party became a cover version of the tory party.

What sort of Labour Party and left wing policies would you like to see Sickchip......and how would they fit in with our current culture, global markets and as a member state of the EU?

In other words, would it be workable?

Red Cat Woman wrote:

tlttf wrote:Your right, however they've still got over 2 years to pop up with the right sweet to offer the voters.

I Think is will take more than two years tifff. time and good will has run out for them. people have seen them for what they are now. the last budget saw to that. what's more Tory infighting will only get worse as the time goes on. as they too can see he is dead meat. for them its dead simple now. its long live the king the king is dead tiff

Your right RCW the king is dead but all he has got to do is lie down, the wee lad in big boys trousers that likes taking Hissy fits and stamp his feet when he does not get his own way, Davy boy those days are well and truly over.

blue,

[i]What sort of Labour Party and left wing policies would you like to see Sickchip......and how would they fit in with our current culture, global markets and as a member state of the EU?[/i]

I will endeavour to answer that coherently; but please be patient, as it may take a little time to prepare such an essay.

I enjoy your posts, by the way, and appreciate that, despite voting tory, you are prepared to voice disapproval of them. In that respect, you are a most reasonable chap.

It doesn't matter Radflag and RCW, the former government and current Labour party just carries on with Tory policies anyway...They will just get the spin doctors to sugar coat them for you as its easier to swallow

Thank you Sickchip...I have to say it how I see it and cannot believe anyone, no matter how Tory they may be....would think this coalition is doing a good job. Our own back bencher summed it up perfectly ' Arrogant Posh boys, who don't know the price of milk '

I really look forward to your answer on my questions, but I understand if it takes a bit of time to come back to me on that one....there's a lot to get through there

blueturando

I have often heard the claim that todays Labour Party is no different to the Conservatives, and that under Tony Blair the party was refered to as "the other Tory party", but of course this is utter nonsense.

The Conservatives refused to invest in the NHS or public services for 18 years, believing that public services are not worth investing in, and the same Tory attitude prevails today.

The basic, very simple difference between the two main parties is that both believe in capitalism and enterprise, but only one of them believes in social justice, or to put it a different way - capitalism with a social conscience.

witchfinder wrote:

The basic, very simple difference between the two main parties is that both believe in capitalism and enterprise, but only one of them believes in social justice, or to put it a different way - capitalism with a social conscience.

Absolutely!

Very well said witchy, right on the button. I find little less annoying when I hear so called labour supporters calling Tony Blair and Gordon Brown Thatcherite, if that was the case, how come The Labour Manifesto of 1997 was totally opposed to that of the Tories, and over 80% of those manifesto promises where fulfilled in the first Parliamentary term, If Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were so Thatcherite, why did they give us the minimum wage, the Social Chapter, lower the disgusting 24+ month waiting lists for emergency heart treatment, why did they make massive investments in both the failing Health service and our education system. If they were so Thatcherite surely they would have thought nothing needed changing, but no, they made massive changes because they were totally against anything Thatcher stood for. We also hear (and we’ve heard a fair bit of it very recently) how there’s no difference between Labour and the Tories, well what utter bollocks, who ever said that must be a reader of the phucking Beano, or just so gullible that they believe everything the Tame Tory Media dogs write, either way, they IMHO have no right claiming to be Labour supporters as it seems they can be purchased with a bag of Tory sweets. Also we must not forget the Blair/Brown with their 3rd way which witchfinder so elequently called, Capitalism with a social Concience plus and with this policy the Labour Party gave us over 10 years of unprecidented growth.

capitalism with a social conscience.

I assume you mean this is labours approach?

That must be why inequality / the gap between rich and poor accelerated faster than at any other time under 13yrs of labour rule; and why social mobility almost ground to a halt; and they began pricing working class kids out of university; and why Blair is making £millions out of conflicts he encouraged; and why Brown has been sulking since he was dumped; and why they didn't bother imposing strict regulations on the banker's wages/bonuses after giving them all OUR money; etc etc

Some of the Labour die-hards really need to take the blinkers off...

Blameless people who lead honest lives are genuinely unable to encompass the iniquity of the Tory-led Coalition government.

Which is why they continuously vote for that nice smoothy-chops who always seems so INTERESTED in their problems.

sickchip
I guess you would like to take us back to the days of Labour being in existence just for the workers, well sick chip, that aint gonna appen. Tell me what is the point in paying employees at a rate that is closer to the employers. I am in business and none of my employee’s get anything like what I get, but what they do get is a very good wage with loads of benefits including free holidays, playing snooker on my snooker table in my home between jobs, if they finish a job early and it is done to my satisfaction they can go home or play snooker, whilst helping themselves to beer etc from my fridge.

What you conveniently forget, it was Tony Blair’s Government that bought in the minimum wage, the Social Chapter, which gave employee’s proper employment rights.

The one thing you do have right though is the differential between the rich and the not so rich, but what you have totally lost sight of is that the poorer where much better off than they ever were under the Tories, and those that employed them earned more due to the ten years of unprecedented growth we enjoyed under Tony Blair ‘s leadership. Also as Phil Hornby has pointed out several times, he kept the Tories out of office for thirteen years.

If you now want to go back to a Michael Foot type Labour Party, thank heavens you will keep wanting.. Tony Blair embraced business as a means to get economic growth and to keep people in work, and he succeeded wonderfully well. He was never Thatcherite no matter how many times you and Ivanhoe try to convince us simply because he wasn’t. As I have said many times before, he did use private health clinics, but only to reduce the excessive waiting lists left by the Tories and for no other reason, some of the specialist clinics continued to be used simply because it wasn’t financially viable to fund them by the NHS, and not because he was as you so wrongly put it Thatcherite.

If you are that dissatisfied with the Labour Party, theres allways the comunists, which sound like they are right down both yours and Ivanho's street.

bobby, It never ceases to amaze me with posters such as sickchip. They say they do not support the Tories and yet when it is plain to everyone that this bunch of dirty trickster Tories are the worst ever, all they can do is to continue to blame Blair and Brown.

All they really are doing is inadvertantly assisting the Tory bastards. What use are these political fence sitters to this country I ask?

I disagree Mel.......Sickchip and I are miles apart in our political thinking, but at least he has the courage to say that the Labour Party he has supported for years has lost it's way and conceded it's principles for the sake of power and the individual gain of professional politicians........Where is your Labour conscience Mel?

The memberships and votes for the 3 main political parties is decreasing all the times as more and more people a disillusioned with the almost identical policies and political stance of the main 3. You only have to look at France to see what outcome of this could be....the far right and far left have picked huge numbers of votes as the main parties have continually refused to acknowledge the concerns of the people...The UK is not far behind in this.

Please, please, please stop pretending the current Labour party is any different to this. We had 13 years of experience and even now Labour has refused to say if it would reverse and Tory cuts. The get out clause is the same as you give for the Banking crisis....Thatcher deregulated the banks so Gordon couldn't do anything about it.....I am sure Miliband will use the same excuses if he came to power and the electorate is stuffed all over again. So if a Labour government cannot use its majority to change policy, what's the point of a Labour government?????

All they really are doing is inadvertantly assisting the Tory bastards. What use are these political fence sitters to this country I ask?.

I think you are and others here a political fence sitters Mel.....You cannot ever bring yourself to vote Tory, but you like (small c) conservative policies, so are happy that your current Labour party sits more on the 'right' these days

Blueturando, the last thing Mel is, is a fence sitter, his flag is well and trully pinned to the Labour flag pole as is mine. How dare you assume that any moves to help business is Conservative and only Conservative, Is it not your Conservatives with their lap dog Lib-Dems who are failing miserably when it comes to assisting business and have put the Nation into yet another Tory Manufactured Recession. I knew you could be a bit naive but I never thought you to be stupid. Saying that, in your Tory mind it then follows that anything caring is Labour, or is it possible for a position somewhere in the centre is where we should be. We need policies that looks after both business and the workforce, the closest we ever got to that was in the Blair Years as well you know, you also know that the party you chose and apparently still do, are a Party hell bent on destroying the foundations of the UK, and the way they do it is by delivering policies that are either impossible to reverse or would be prohibitively too expensive, and couldn’t be reversed until the economy can stand the cost.

You say that Labour will not say if they will or wont reverse any Tory policies. How the bloody hell can they say that when they have absolutely no idea of the state Britain will be in after the next General Election, just look at the damage they (Conservatives) have done in just two years, it beggars belief as what they will phuck up in another three.

I am extremely disappointed in you, you said they (Conservatives) need a good kick in the teeth, but still peddle the same anti Labour crap in support of your beloved Tories. I will not be taken in by you a second time, I now know exactly what you are and that is a Tory.

Like your Tory mates you twist and spin lies, and although you have no defence of your chosen Party, still continue with untruth’s regarding Labour. All I seem to read in most of your posts, is Labour will do this, Labour will do that, with loads of if buts or maybe’s. All of your complaints about Labour are merely your interpretation of things and seen through the eyes of a full blooded Tory.

Hiya bobby, are you getting angry, thank god I'm more right wing than Blue.

It's typical of the small-minded to object when somebody they have pigeonholed turns out not to fit the aperture.

Hello Landy, Sorry to shatter your illusions, but I never get angry with anyone I cant get me mits on.

blue wrote " so are happy that your current Labour party sits more on the 'right' these days"

Yes blue because they play fair. We need to keep the big and small employers happy but not at the expense of the workforce, the young, the elderly and the sick. Therefore Blair got it right. If you are a right wing supporter, then if you consder Labour to be "sitting more on the right these days why not vote for them instead of rediculously requesting me to vote Tory?
However unhappy you suggest you are with the Tories, I suspect you will still vote for them, whereas sickchip has no idea of which party is best for him nor the country. Therefore the question is what is left for him to vote for?
tlttf keeps on asking us all to consider The Independant party. You are all grasping at straws looking for the perfect party which does not and will never exist. You dither and hope and end up on the political fence because you know there are only two viable parties. Well now there is one and a half after this current lots escapades.

Bobby

What you conveniently forget, it was Tony Blair’s Government that bought in the minimum wage, the Social Chapter, which gave employee’s proper employment rights.

Is that meant to be a joke? New Labour gave employees proper employment rights...hahaha.

I refer you to my previous post:
by sickchip Today at 12:31 am

Showing itself primarily in ancient Gnostic texts, the Ouroboros is any image of a snake, worm, serpent, or dragon biting its own tail. Generally taking on a circular form, the symbol is representative of many broad concepts. Time, life continuity, completion, the repetition of history, the self-sufficiency of nature, and the rebirth of the Earth can all be seen within the circular boundaries of the Ouroboros.

Societies from throughout history have shaped the Ouroboros to fit their own beliefs and purposes. The image has been seen in ancient Egypt, Japan, India, utilized in Greek alchemic texts, European woodcuts, Native American Indian tribes, and by the Aztecs. It has, at times, been directly associated to such varying symbols as the Roman god Janus, the Chinese Ying Yang, and the Biblical serpent in the Garden of Eden.

http://www.crystalinks.com/ouroboros.html


Useful to employ a device that means anything you want it to mean.

Oftenwrong,

I use the Ouroboros to symbolise neo-liberal capitalism devouring itself....those at the top (the head) not realising that by feeding off those at the bottom (the tail) they are slowly killing themselves/destroying their means of survival: ie, their system does not, and cannot, work.

..of course I may change my mind at any time and use it to mean anything else I see fit.