Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

First topic message reminder :

Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010. It certainly looks as though the Conservatives have recieved a boost from David Cameron’s veto at the European summit. There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck. How is it that the tories can be level or ahead in the polls when they are having to make some very difficult and painfull decisions to try and bring down the deficit, the umemployment figures are the worst for 17 years. We have had strikes, pension reforms, VAT rises and the veto in Europe etc.......

It looks like Ed Millaband is not liked or trusted by many of the elecorate. In my opinion he looks weak, sounds weak and has no policies to speak of....Everytime he tries to get the better of Cameron in PMQ'S he ends looking like a fool with Cameron destroying him. Ed Balls is no better...he comes across as an odious man with no substance, who would probably stab his own wife in the back if it meant he gained more power.

Labour missed a trick in not voting in Eds brother David into the leadership role. David would have given Cameron a better run for his money and I believe he is a better politician than Ed too. With the two Eds at the helm I believe Labour are not a viable opposition right now and one or both could be dispatched by the party sooner rather than later

The charitable explanation must be that Labour don't want to give away anything of their own plans by using their figures to challenge the Coalition too closely.

oftenwrong wrote:The charitable explanation must be that Labour don't want to give away anything of their own plans by using their figures to challenge the Coalition too closely.

I understand that Labour can not let them know what will be in their Manifesto until 2015, what I mean is the Tories are good at casting up the fuel escalator that Labour brought in but Labour omit to say how much the Tories increase of two and half % in vat put on the price of petrol, little things like that are letting the Tories away with murder and as you know they keep repeating these things to the public and you know what the drip drip effect that will have on the public. Just like most people believe that it was Labour that caused the debt we have at the moment, but we know that the majority of the debt was acquired from bailing out the B(W) ankers.

On the BBC Today programme this morning, Gideon had to admit that some £4billion of his "savings" isn't yet certain. That's how much he hopes to get from flogging new operating frequencies to the mobile phone operators next year. He's hoping to match the golden egg placed in Gordon Brown's hands by that Industry when he sold them the "3G" network ten years or so back.

When a Company includes anticipated sales in its trading figures which haven't actually been made yet, it's often called deception.

Just like most people believe that it was Labour that caused the debt we have at the moment,

Yes they do and rightly so. No amount of spin will ever get Labout out of that one

but we know that the majority of the debt was acquired from bailing out the B(W) ankers..

How much was spent bailing out the banks compared to how much the country was in debt when Labour left office?...Answers on a postcard

The charitable explanation must be that Labour don't want to give away anything of their own plans by using their figures to challenge the Coalition too closely..

I dont think Balls and Labour have any plans....Not ones that will stand up to scrutiny anyway

PS....Thank you Mr.Balls for for you wonderfull reply to Gideons Autumn statement...Well it made me chuckle anyway

“The biggest lie in British politics”

Extracts from an article by Johann Hari:-

"British politics today is dominated by a lie. This lie is making it significantly more likely you will lose your job, your business, or your home. The lie gives a false explanation for how we came to be in this crisis, and prescribes a medicine that will worsen our disease.

Here’s the lie. We are in a debt crisis. Our national debt is dangerously and historically high. We are being threatened by the international bond markets. The way out is to eradicate our deficit rapidly. Only that will restore ‘confidence’, and therefore economic growth.

As a proportion of GDP, Britain’s national debt has been higher than it is now for 200 of the past 250 years. Check it on any graph by any historian. Since 1750, there have only been two brief 30-year periods when our debt has been lower than it is now. So we can afford to run a deficit, if that has a positive effect. If we are ‘bust’ today, as Osborne has claimed, then we have almost always been bust. We were bust when we pioneered the Industrial Revolution. We were bust when we ruled a quarter of the world. We were bust when we beat the Nazis. We were bust when we built the NHS. Or is it Osborne’s economics that are bust?

Our debt is not high by historical standards, and it is not high by international standards. For example, Japan’s national debt is three times bigger than ours, and they are still borrowing at good rates."

For the full article:-
http://johannhari.com/2011/03/29/the-biggest-lie-in-british-politics/

blueturando wrote:-
it was Labour that caused the debt we have at the moment…..No amount of spin will ever get Labout out of that one

Jeez, that tired old lie is guaranteed to get a groan from the audience on ‘Question Time’, every time a Tory toady tries to indoctrinate them with it. It must be the biggest ever lie – sadly, perpetuated even by you – since Josef Goebbels said: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”

How much was spent bailing out the banks compared to how much the country was in debt when Labour left office?...Answers on a postcard

What debt are you talking about? The national debt? Personal debt? Do you understand the difference between debt and deficit? Why don’t you give us some facts and figures, instead of just regurgitating that tired old Tory lie? As the money spent bailing out the banks accounted for most of the increased national debt during the global credit crunch, your question seems confused.

The national debt is accumulated borrowing by the government. The deficit is the amount the government borrows each year, the difference between what it spends and the revenue it receives. So each year's deficit is added to the existing debt. The debt, expressed as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP), was 38.3% at the end of June 2008. Thanks to the Tories, trying to clear up their own mess after ‘Black Wednesday’, debt peaked at 43.6% of GDP in 1997, its highest since the mid-1980s. (Source: National Statistics Online)

Even the ‘Daily Telegraph’ had to admit that in his early years as Chancellor, Gordon Brown succeeded in bringing down sharply the national debt inherited from the Tories when Labour came to power in 1997. (Source: telegraph.co.uk, 17/02/08)

Personal debt is something different. Outstanding personal debt stood at £1.421 trillion at the end of October 2012, up from £1.406 trillion at the end of October 2011. Are you trying to blame Labour for what people choose to borrow?
http://www.creditaction.org.uk/helpful-resources/debt-statistics.html

I dont think Balls and Labour have any plans....Not ones that will stand up to scrutiny anyway.

Did you complain when the Tories only had two policies in the last parliament – to make foxhunting legal again and to reduce inheritance tax for millionaires? Not that having policies makes much difference to the Tories, the bare-faced liars have gone back on most of what they promised in 2010.

What would be the point of Labour announcing plans in 2012, which could soon be out of date if the next election isn’t until 2015? Who can estimate how much more damage the Tories will have done to this country by then?

Thank you Mr.Balls for for you wonderfull reply to Gideons Autumn statement...Well it made me chuckle anyway.

Why was that then? Do you laugh at people with a stammer, just as the filth known as Cameron and Osborne do? For the record, Cameron has also joked about Tourette’s, Osborne once called Gordon Brown "autistic" and that grotesque lump of lard called Pickles mocked John Prescott’s bulimia. It seems that there are no depths to which Tory scum won’t plummet.

"All's fair in Love and War"

The Tories embarked on a crusade against the underprivileged which is hard to distinguish from warfare.

blueturando wrote:

The charitable explanation must be that Labour don't want to give away anything of their own plans by using their figures to challenge the Coalition too closely..

I dont think Balls and Labour have any plans....Not ones that will stand up to scrutiny anyway

PS....Thank you Mr.Balls for for you wonderfull reply to Gideons Autumn statement...Well it made me chuckle anyway

The debt the UK was in before the B(W)ankers decided to have a night at the CASINO blue did not amount to much, until Gordon Brown had to go and borrow BILLIONS to bail the BACKSTUDS out and that included two building society's which you already KNOW but do not want your friends in the City black listed as they should be because they pour MILLIONS into tory party funds. The tories are trying very hard to drive a wedge between the workers and non workers you know the ones I mean the ones that Scam..er.on and Giddy Gideon flung onto the Dole queue with there SLASH & BURN policies, but I hope you are ready for your party to be known in the future as the "One Term Firm" and today top economists have came out and told the UK public who will suffer at the hands of the nasty party so they can not cover that one up plus we still could loose the triple A standing and that will speak louder than words from economists.

Evidently the PR company which represents Britain's Casino Operators has gently complained to the Press about the persistent linking with Bankers.

oftenwrong wrote:Evidently the PR company which represents Britain's Casino Operators has gently complained to the Press about the persistent linking with Bankers.

The reason they complained gently is because they could not in all honesty complain any other way OW.

A reminder of just how absurd the title of this thread is.
 
Ed Miliband is an unusually strong leader
 
Adapted from an article by Azeem Ibrahim:-
 
Cameron has a new plan to win the election. He will call Ed Miliband weak at every opportunity. Yet his own position is incredibly weak. He is the first to experience a serious challenge from a new party to his right - UKIP. He is weakened by the perception that he lacks convictions and by his government's many U-turns. His party's average member is over 60. He didn’t win the last election and is the first Tory leader in living memory to rely on another party to get anything done. And after a campaign of brutal cuts and an economy which has flatlined, it is hard to see him getting more votes next time than he did last time.

Ed Miliband is proving to be a remarkably strong leader. He got the job by standing against the man who was widely tipped to win the leadership - who happened to be his brother. He has spent much of his leadership spoiling for a fight. It started with Murdoch, by calling for a judicial enquiry and saying explicitly that he would seek to limit the percentage of media that one man could own.

Miliband threatened the banks with separation between their investment (casino) and retail (piggy bank) arms. He’s threatened to break up the big six energy companies unless they start giving consumers a better deal. He wants to give councils new powers to penalise development firms which don't build on the land they have and wait for it to go up in value. Then there was Google, who he has challenged to pay more tax.

For years, the relationship between the unions and Labour was seen as not quite working. No leader felt strong enough to do anything about it, until now, and the Tories will be deprived of a stick they have used to beat Labour. Cameron might hope to win by calling Ed Miliband weak again and again, but if Miliband carries on as he has started, that plan will fail.
 
For the original article:-
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/azeem-ibrahim/ed-miliband-strong-leader_b_3661956.html

I sometimes wonder if any political advance is going to be possible until we get rid of the fuhrers and try democracy again. It worked well once.

Penderyn wrote:I sometimes wonder if any political advance is going to be possible until we get rid of the fuhrers and try democracy again.   It worked well once.

The only Fuhrers at this time lives at No10 Downing Street under the name of David Cameron

Redflag wrote:

Penderyn wrote:I sometimes wonder if any political advance is going to be possible until we get rid of the fuhrers and try democracy again.   It worked well once.

The only Fuhrers at this time lives at No10 Downing Street under the name of David Cameron

We used just to have Chair(men). Now we have 'Leaders' and no vote on policy. It may make for good television - of the kind I don't watch - but it is crap politics.

 
Your vote on policy come when you vote in a general election, the party you vote for will publish there Manifesto, and yes the I know politicians lie none more PROLIFIC at LYING than Cameron.

I'd prefer to have a vote first, thanks, since there is no way of holding any of the Fuhrers to their promises except voting for another one who will do the same thing.

Penderyn wrote:I'd prefer to have a vote first, thanks, since there is no way of holding any of the Fuhrers to their promises except voting for another one who will do the same thing.

So you have came to the same conclusion as many many others, got to select the best of a bad bunch and for me that is the Labour party AT LEAST THEY ARE FAIR they do not do what this Tory gov't have done, which is to look after ther own the FILTHY rich and wealthy at the top and the normal working man/women can take the scraps they fling our way. Since they came to power in May 2010 the only ones to pay for the B(W)ankers GREED has been the low paid sick and disabled, the banking crash hppened in 2008 and Gordon Brown was PM at that time HE did not use the normal people to pay for the bankers greed, he got growth within the economy and did his best to keep everyone in work he did not have what it took to be PM but as a Chancellor he was FANTASTIC.

Red
You are so right - thanks for the reminder that there is in fact a difference in philosophy between the two parties - so easy to forget in these days of right wing headlines.
Gordon Brown ROCKS

Every policy decision of the Tory Party confirms how much they fear the Poor.

Gordon Brown ROCKS

.

I hope he doesn't crawl out for under his....

[quote="blueturando"]

Gordon Brown ROCKS

.

I hope he doesn't crawl out for under his....[/quote

Gordon Brown has NOTHING to crawl out from, but Osborne does and he will go down in history as the WORST CHANCELLOR EVER and Cameron will go down as the NASTIEST PM EVER making the low paid sick & disabled pay for the B(W)ANKERS GREED. Before you try and MISLEAD us on this forum that the rich and wealthy pay there fair share of tax let me remind you the Daily Mirror did a survey of who paid what and it came back as the rich paid 35.5% of there income in tax and the low paid paid 36.6% that is a difference of 1.1% MORE than the FILTHY RICH who could afford to pay more.

Before you go on about Gordon Brown yes he did not have the skills of a PM but as a chancellor Osborne is not fit to lace his boot laces, I think you need to take a look at your own party before looking at the Labour party, most of the Tory party are shoving each other out of the way to get the leadership of the Tory party and this includes Doris that what the Tory party think of Cameron. 

Osborne is about to sell Lloyds back to the Public for less money than he might have got by waiting until the City Spivs get back from their hollidaze.

Skill, or what?

He should go back to folding towels - maybe he wasn't much good at it, but how much harm can you do with a badly folded towel?

   

oftenwrong wrote:Osborne is about to sell Lloyds back to the Public for less money than he might have got by waiting until the City Spivs get back from their hollidaze.

Skill, or what?

I doubt if Osborne has ANY kind of skill OW, I tend to think he could not manage a "P**S UP IN A BREWERY"

oftenwrong wrote:Every policy decision of the Tory Party confirms how much they fear the Poor.

How much they hate the poor and all British people, I'd say. But if the ex-Labour Party won't fight, what is the use of it (and I don't mean trying to destroy the unions which represent so many millions more than they ever even see)?

Redflag wrote:

Penderyn wrote:I'd prefer to have a vote first, thanks, since there is no way of holding any of the Fuhrers to their promises except voting for another one who will do the same thing.

So you have came to the same conclusion as many many others, got to select the best of a bad bunch and for me that is the Labour party AT LEAST THEY ARE FAIR they do not do what this Tory gov't have done, which is to look after ther own the FILTHY rich and wealthy at the top and the normal working man/women can take the scraps they fling our way.   Since they came to power in May 2010 the only ones to pay for the B(W)ankers GREED has been the low paid sick and disabled, the banking crash hppened in 2008 and Gordon Brown was PM at that time HE did not use the normal people to pay for the bankers greed, he got growth within the economy and did his best to keep everyone in work he did not have what it took to be PM but as a Chancellor he was FANTASTIC.

I moved beyond that theory long since. There is no answer but to rebuild the whole Labour Movement without any of these careerist nobodies. If they won't fight what use are they to anyone? And, yes, you'll have to wait for power till you've convinced somebody other than the boozy reporters and their millionaire masters. So what's new?

Is Miliband losing support and failing to connect with voters?

Does it even matter when the Labour party will carry on with tory policies IF elected?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/02/cancelling-labour-membership-ed-miliband-will-stevens

I do not think Ed Miliband has had the support of the UK public, sickchip, why I do not know but I suppose there must be a reason and I would imagine there are plenty of variations on those reasons.
 
At this pont in time I do not think people would want the Labour party to keep the NASTY Tory policies, for that we will need to wait and see what their Manifesto says.

Ivan said.....

A reminder of just how absurd the title of this thread is.

Ed Miliband is an unusually strong leader

Labour MP George Mundie thinks Ed Miliband is hesitant and confused with a bunker mentality (Radio 4 world at one)

He added that he had no idea what Labour’s policy was on vote-winning areas including, education, welfare and the NHS. He also said ‘I have difficulty knowing what we stand for now.
‘We are 18 months away from an election thinking that we will put out a document on all these major items and the public will say “Oh great”.


I guess if Labour MPs dont even know what Miliband and Labour stand for, what hope do swing voters have? Maybe not so absurd then Ivan

The way things are looking at the moment they're not good, but Labour MPs SHOULD know what the Labour party stands for "THE WORKING PEOPLE OF THE UK"
 
If George Mundie is confused why not ask Ed Miliband or any of the shadow cabinet, I know Education is high on their list, the first thing they will do there is get rid of the UNQUALIFIED TEACHERS that Gove is bringing so that our kids do not come out of school Uneducated, Andy Burnham will REPEAL NHS BILL then will be SHOVELLING SHYTE 24/7 for many a year getting it back to NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE not the privatized Tory version.   Also instead of borrowing to pay the Dole money he will get people back to work by taxing the BACKSTUDS that caused this bloody mess, there are three things that the Labour party stand for I hope George Mundie comes on to CE and reads this then he will know what Labour stands for.
 
It has been announced that Cameron is hiring another advisor to see if he can help him win the 2015 general election, he can hire all the advisor he wants "WHAT HE NEEDS" is people to vote for him and North of the Watford Gap WILL NOT, so it looks like there is going to be another coalition of not two parties more like 3-4 so things will be interesting.

blueturando:-
Labour MP George Mundie thinks Ed Miliband is hesitant and confused……if Labour MPs dont even know what Miliband and Labour stand for

Spoken like a true Tory. For years we’ve had your ilk describing Blair and Bush’s foreign adventures as “illegal wars”, when one of them might arguably have been illegal, now we have you turning the opinion of ONE Labour MP into ‘MPs’. Can’t you tell the difference between singular and plural, or do you think exaggeration makes your pathetic little story more credible?
 
There are 258 Labour MPs, so Mr Mudie (pity you can’t even get his name right) represents just under 0.4% of the Parliamentary Labour Party. He’s entitled to his opinion (though who knows what his hidden agenda might be), just as Azeem Ibrahim is entitled to his, but I see you haven’t commented on any of the points he made about both Cameron and Ed Miliband:-
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/azeem-ibrahim/ed-miliband-strong-leader_b_3661956.html
 
I wonder how many Tory MPs think Cameron is a waste of space? 128 of them voted against him over equal marriage, but we don’t see you banging on about that on an appropriate thread. We have the most vicious government in living memory, taking us ever closer to fascism, and an invisible corporation now running large chunks of the UK, but only silence from you:-
 
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jul/29/serco-biggest-company-never-heard-of
 
Not a word from you about businessman John Nash, who gave £300,000 to the Tories. Then, by pure coincidence, Iain Duncan Smith gave him a £73 million workfare contract, Gove made him a schools minister and Cameron gave him a peerage:-
 
http://righttowork.org.uk/workfare-watch/
 
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2013/01/tory-donor-given-peerage-and-ministerial-job-john-nash-education/ …
 
Corruption is endemic with Cameron – Brooks, Coulson, dinners for donations in Downing Street, Crosby and his lobbying:-
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/04/corporate-britain-corrupt-lobbying-revolving-door
 
Ed Miliband is not “living on borrowed time”. He will lead Labour into the next general election and he’s not letting UKIP or a racist Australian lobbyist dictate Labour policy. I repeat that this thread is absurd.

Well said Ivan. Cameron now wants to bring in an American as an advisor for the next general election, if he thinks USA politics will work in the UK he is deluding himself. Cameron must be getting so desperate to get back into power in 2015, but let me give him an old proverb "You can drag a Horse to the Well but you can not make it drink".
 
The way things are looking Cameron will not be leading his party into the next general election because more than likely one of his own will have stabbed him in the back and taken his job, just like they did to Thatcher.

Bring it on!  
 

 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSdZfyPIIAAMVaY.jpg

This Ivan is what I have been waiting to see. I will be LEGLESS that day, and I do not drink but this day will be well worth celebrating and the hangover.

Lovely picture, Ivan

boatlady wrote:He should go back to folding towels - maybe he wasn't much good at it, but how much harm can you do with a badly folded towel?

....Gideon's badly folded towels? Are you referring to the Lib Dems?

boatlady wrote:Lovely picture, Ivan

Alas - a fantasy is all it is.

sickchip wrote:

boatlady wrote:Lovely picture, Ivan

Alas - a fantasy is all it is.

Sickchip never say never people that would normally vote Labour if they think Labour will lose they will vote Independents or maybe the trade Unions will put up candidates or Owen Jones peoples party.