Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Did you know that this Tory lead coalition Government have cut the pensioners Winter Fuel Payment, they say, in a bid to save money and cut the Deficit. I write this because the BBC TV media have not picked up on it.

For the over 60’s, the coalition have cut £50 off the payment which was £250 a year, it is now £200, and for the over 80’s they have cut the Winter fuel payment by £100, taking it from £400 to £300. And I have to repeat that this cut in the Winter Fuel payment has not been picked up by the media. And both the cuts, and the media indifference is another national scandal.

The coalition have stated this cut is to save money and cut the Deficit. But it is not to save money. It is because the right wing are driven by an ideological hatred of the welfare state. It is an arrogance against the poor, against the old.

The very existence of the former New Labour Government’s Winter Fuel payment paid to 12 million pensioners, means that the basic State pension is not enough to live on, yet more than 30,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997.

The Unions have never taken up this issue up on behalf of Britain’s elderly people, and in my view this is because our elderly people have no labour to withdraw to grab the media’s attention.

Britain’s State retirement pension has lost value over the last 30 years, it is fast diminishing. It is way below the EU average of 57 per cent. The State pension in this country is set at just 17 per cent of average earnings.

The recent public sector pension strikes have proved what can be achieved when people are hit personally, now the public and private sectors should get together and support our elderly people for higher State pensions, even though this does not affect worker’s, yet

This and previous right wing Government’s, including New Labour, have managed to divide British workers from the pensioners of this country, and these Government’s have forced people into self interest. It is time this was reversed. But how to achieve this perpetual me, me, me attitude that has spawned from the Thatcher era around 30 years ago, that’s the problem, because this self interest is inherent.

Britain’s elderly people are the backbone of our nation, in longevity terms alone they have contributed more to this country than other age groups. But the attitude from politicians is as if our elderly people haven’t paid a penny.

But their taxes and NI contributions have indeed been contributed, the Welfare State, and the NHS was founded from pensioners taxes and NI contributions when they were working, yet this generation have fundamentally been ignored since the 80’s, 30 years ago.

The richest people in this country had done extremely well since the 80’s, whereas our elderly people have been robbed of their full State pension rights in the name of political dogma.

Where do we as a nation get off allowing this and previous right wing Government’s to treat our elderly people so badly ?

And it’s this time of year when poverty is keenly felt, but not by our politicians, who in my view have not got a clue.

As Christmas eve draws near and New year’s eve follows, the political history of Britain since the 80’s has frankly reduced been to decadence.

Growing a massive rich and poor divide, which was made worse by the New Labour Government.

And now this Tory lead coalition are hitting the poor again and again and all due to ideology.

I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen and woman for being laid back and reserved when it comes to others suffering from these decadent policies administered by our right wing politicians, who do not have to endure them, themselves.

And now I am worried about how many more elderly people are going to suffer untimely deaths through this cold weather ?

If the Tory’s really wanted to cut the Deficit, there are a number of ways they could achieve this, without hurting the
most vulnerable people in this country.

This Deficit cutting is one big excuse for Cameron to attack Britain’s most vulnerable people, and I cannot believe Nick Clegg is supporting this.

Yet the HMRC has let big business get away with no paying £25Billion in unpaid tax....thats about £410 for every man woman and child in Britain.......

But this government will take £50 and £100 off those who can least afford it....

'We're all in this together'.............NOT.........

astradt1 wrote:Yet the HMRC has let big business get away with no paying £25Billion in unpaid tax....thats about £410 for every man woman and child in Britain.......

But this government will take £50 and £100 off those who can least afford it....

'We're all in this together'.............NOT.........

Those who voted for Cameron at the last general election, should be lined up against a brick wall and shot. ( my thanks to Jeremy Clarkson )

Thanks for a detailed post Ivanhoe.

When working in public transport, I overheard conversations, where the "oldies" were talking about using this £200 to buy presents for the grandkids, have a weekend in an hotel or "the kids would come and demand it off of them!


Mrs A this year again put the money straight into the utility company - so much for gas and so much for leccy, and asking the operator, she was told that she is the only person this year to do this that this operator has heard of!

The "Oldies" are the source of their own problem. (If on another forum, and people are complaining, ask them "hand on heart" if they use the money as it was intended! Bet very few reply in the affirmative! While warm, I would not say that this house is over hot, but this payment IS a great help (our heating drops to 'frost protection' from 2300hrs till 0900 hrs and we just hold heads above water.

No doubt the tories are hoping to kill a few spongers and save a few quid....

astra wrote:Thanks for a detailed post Ivanhoe.

When working in public transport, I overheard conversations, where the "oldies" were talking about using this £200 to buy presents for the grandkids, have a weekend in an hotel or "the kids would come and demand it off of them!


Mrs A this year again put the money straight into the utility company - so much for gas and so much for leccy, and asking the operator, she was told that she is the only person this year to do this that this operator has heard of!

The "Oldies" are the source of their own problem. (If on another forum, and people are complaining, ask them "hand on heart" if they use the money as it was intended! Bet very few reply in the affirmative! While warm, I would not say that this house is over hot, but this payment IS a great help (our heating drops to 'frost protection' from 2300hrs till 0900 hrs and we just hold heads above water.

Is that your only comment based on my posting ?

Have you no insight into this matter ?

The basic State pension in this country should be increased substantially, making no need for offensive cold weather payments.

I am concerned about the sickening way we treat our elderly people in this country. Clearly, you are not.

This isn't about the elderly per se...once again it's about distribution of wealth and, of course, class background. Richer old people will be fine!

sickchip wrote:This isn't about the elderly per se...once again it's about distribution of wealth and, of course, class background. Richer old people will be fine!

""Richer old people will be fine!""

Now you have unknowingly, hit the nail right on the head.

Because richer old people have also paid into the system when working, they too are entitled to a decent level of State pension.

Let us not fall into the divide and conquer of the messases, that the right wing like so use.

However you are correct. This is about "fair" distribution of wealth.

Since Frank Field lost his job in the Blair cabinet (to think the unthinkable), MPs are reluctant to indulge in lateral thinking, but if they don't want to continue paying pensioners a "Winter Fuel" allowance from the public purse, why not impose an obligation on the Energy Companies to rebate £250 from the Bills of qualifying consumers?

And what of the poor downtrodden shareholders, if they where to lower their revenues, the poor bastards would only be able to run 1 Bentley and will be reduced to only 6 holidays per year.

bobby wrote:And what of the poor downtrodden shareholders, if they where to lower their revenues, the poor bastards would only be able to run 1 Bentley and will be reduced to only 6 holidays per year.

I quite agree, shame aint it.

oftenwrong wrote:Since Frank Field lost his job in the Blair cabinet (to think the unthinkable), MPs are reluctant to indulge in lateral thinking, but if they don't want to continue paying pensioners a "Winter Fuel" allowance from the public purse, why not impose an obligation on the Energy Companies to rebate £250 from the Bills of qualifying consumers?

OW - what a superb idea! How many pensioners currently qualify for the winter fuel allowance?

Since Thatcher created our me me me Society, our old people have been thrown on the back burner by this and previous right wing government's, and Britain's middle class.

The first thing anybody asks when comfronted with paying our pensioners a decent State pension, is, "whose gonna pay for it" ?

This statement sums up this country completely.

oftenwrong wrote:Since Frank Field lost his job in the Blair cabinet (to think the unthinkable), MPs are reluctant to indulge in lateral thinking, but if they don't want to continue paying pensioners a "Winter Fuel" allowance from the public purse, why not impose an obligation on the Energy Companies to rebate £250 from the Bills of qualifying consumers?

Excellent idea!

Is that your only comment based on my posting ?

Have you no insight into this matter ?

The basic State pension in this country should be increased substantially, making no need for offensive cold weather payments.

I am concerned about the sickening way we treat our elderly people in this country. Clearly, you are not.

It is OK for you Ivanhoe, you can do a couple of hours overtime to make up shortfalls or add a little pleasure. On pensions and "Handouts" I do not have that pleasure anymore!

I did not save all my life so that MPs could fu€k up the financial system but remain in the status quo without felling hardship themselves!
I further did not save all my life to keep Bankers and Shareholders in the manner to which they have become so acustomed!
I have described how my pension fund was fiddled by Brown to the tune of Ten Grand, what Cameroon is now doing is hurting andd my savings are depleting at an horrendous rate

How you can say I do not care about people on pensions, when that his how I have to survive beats me. HAVE YOU BEEN SPEED READING THRO' POSTS?

Means-testing an allowance creates more bureaucracy, is expensive and doesn't ensure that it gets to everyone who needs it. It's far better to pay something like the Winter Fuel Allowance to all pensioners, regardless of their income. If you think that people like Michael Winner and Bruce Forsyth don't need it, no problem, just increase the top rate of Income Tax to say 60% for the very highest earners.

astra wrote:

Is that your only comment based on my posting ?

Have you no insight into this matter ?

The basic State pension in this country should be increased substantially, making no need for offensive cold weather payments.

I am concerned about the sickening way we treat our elderly people in this country. Clearly, you are not.

It is OK for you Ivanhoe, you can do a couple of hours overtime to make up shortfalls or add a little pleasure. On pensions and "Handouts" I do not have that pleasure anymore!

I did not save all my life so that MPs could fu€k up the financial system but remain in the status quo without felling hardship themselves!
I further did not save all my life to keep Bankers and Shareholders in the manner to which they have become so acustomed!
I have described how my pension fund was fiddled by Brown to the tune of Ten Grand, what Cameroon is now doing is hurting andd my savings are depleting at an horrendous rate

How you can say I do not care about people on pensions, when that his how I have to survive beats me. HAVE YOU BEEN SPEED READING THRO' POSTS?

Astra, Can you please elaborate on your posting ?. And also can you please tell me, if you wish, what party you have always voted for ?, this is very important. ?

I cannot see what my political allegiance - if any has to do with anything!
As a young man, my MP was Sir Nicholas Fairbairn MP QC. Those were the days when MPs had a Social responsibility

When the witch put Sir Nicholas down in a most unfriendly way, when the witch nacked my home city, when the witch bu88ered up the North East - I had moved here then as Scotland was going to hell in a handcart! When the witch ended ALL the manufacturing base in this country to GIVE it to Europe I ended ANY allegiance with the Bories.
When Blair said he did nowt for the North East of England as he "Did not want to be accused of favouratism" I lost all allegiance with with Labour and what it stood/stands for - certainly no longer the working man trying his best to put a roof over his head and food on the table!
I have NEVER had any allegiance with the Liberals - sons of Whiggs who did so much damage only 160 years ago!

So me old fruit yer takes yer pick. (SNP, were I living in Scotland again, is no use IMO either! As when / if independence is gained, Salmond is throwing his towel in with Strasbourg! Not the way I would like to see things go)

astra wrote:I cannot see what my political allegiance - if any has to do with anything!
As a young man, my MP was Sir Nicholas Fairbairn MP QC. Those were the days when MPs had a Social responsibility

When the witch put Sir Nicholas down in a most unfriendly way, when the witch nacked my home city, when the witch bu88ered up the North East - I had moved here then as Scotland was going to hell in a handcart! When the witch ended ALL the manufacturing base in this country to GIVE it to Europe I ended ANY allegiance with the Bories.
When Blair said he did nowt for the North East of England as he "Did not want to be accused of favouratism" I lost all allegiance with with Labour and what it stood/stands for - certainly no longer the working man trying his best to put a roof over his head and food on the table!
I have NEVER had any allegiance with the Liberals - sons of Whiggs who did so much damage only 160 years ago!

So me old fruit yer takes yer pick. (SNP, were I living in Scotland again, is no use IMO either! As when / if independence is gained, Salmond is throwing his towel in with Strasbourg! Not the way I would like to see things go)

Astra,

I could make head nor tail from your posting, so here are the basics.

You know we had the Torys from 1974 until 1997. You might not know that New Labour under Blair and Brown continued Thatcher's free market policies from day one in 1997. So we have not had a "Labour" Government since 1974.

Going by your posting, I think you are refering to having supported the Tories ( Bories ) at one time, have I read that correctly ?, and also "New" Labour, again have I read that correctly ?

May I suggest if there isn't a party for you to support Ivanhoe, perhaps yourself and sickchip should start your own party. I'm sure you'll be a raving success!

tlttf wrote:May I suggest if there isn't a party for you to support Ivanhoe, perhaps yourself and sickchip should start your own party. I'm sure you'll be a raving success!

Please explain that remark ?

tlttf,

Oh I'm sure we'd quickly be quashed, discredited, and labelled as radicals by the almighty establishment........and of course the stupid electorate in this country are always willing to swallow the BS they're fed.

sickchip wrote:tlttf,

Oh I'm sure we'd quickly be quashed, discredited, and labelled as radicals by the almighty establishment........and of course the stupid electorate in this country are always willing to swallow the BS they're fed.

I could not agree more. We Brit's deserve everything we get.

But what did we do to get a government that so dislikes the people it governs?

oftenwrong wrote:But what did we do to get a government that so dislikes the people it governs?

Since the 80's we got greedy, and since then we have voted for right wing low income tax government's. And the rest is history.

astra wrote:

Is that your only comment based on my posting ?

Have you no insight into this matter ?

The basic State pension in this country should be increased substantially, making no need for offensive cold weather payments.

I am concerned about the sickening way we treat our elderly people in this country. Clearly, you are not.

It is OK for you Ivanhoe, you can do a couple of hours overtime to make up shortfalls or add a little pleasure. On pensions and "Handouts" I do not have that pleasure anymore!

I did not save all my life so that MPs could fu€k up the financial system but remain in the status quo without felling hardship themselves!
I further did not save all my life to keep Bankers and Shareholders in the manner to which they have become so acustomed!
I have described how my pension fund was fiddled by Brown to the tune of Ten Grand, what Cameroon is now doing is hurting andd my savings are depleting at an horrendous rate

How you can say I do not care about people on pensions, when that his how I have to survive beats me. HAVE YOU BEEN SPEED READING THRO' POSTS?

Here's a little bit of information for you Astra.

///In the winter period (December to March) of 2009/10 there were an estimated 25,400 more deaths in England and Wales, compared with the average for the non-winter period. The overall figure represents a death rate of 9 pensioners an hour during the 4 month period in question. This was a decrease of 30 per cent compared with the number in the previous winter, but is slightly higher than the level seen in 2007/08.

Females experience greater excess winter mortality than males: in 2009/10 there were 10,600 excess winter deaths in males and 14,800 excess winter deaths in females. The greatest increase in deaths each winter is in the elderly population. In the winter of 2009/10 there were 20,600 more deaths among those aged 75 and over, compared with levels in the non-winter period. In contrast, there were 4,900 excess winter deaths among those under the age of 75.////

Ivan wrote:Means-testing an allowance creates more bureaucracy, is expensive and doesn't ensure that it gets to everyone who needs it. It's far better to pay something like the Winter Fuel Allowance to all pensioners, regardless of their income. If you think that people like Michael Winner and Bruce Forsyth don't need it, no problem, just increase the top rate of Income Tax to say 60% for the very highest earners.

Excellent, but the right wing wont do that because they are a low tax Government.

We've already got Ian Duncan Smith quizzing cancer patients whether there isn't SOMETHING they could do to get off the dole. Now there are some fuckwits slavering for a return to Means Testing of benefits.

A cursory research reveals that in the 1930s, applicants were denied Parish Relief if their shoes didn't leak when it rained.

oftenwrong wrote:We've already got Ian Duncan Smith quizzing cancer patients whether there isn't SOMETHING they could do to get off the dole. Now there are some fuckwits slavering for a return to Means Testing of benefits.

A cursory research reveals that in the 1930s, applicants were denied Parish Relief if their shoes didn't leak when it rained.

We have'nt moved one inch from Victorian standards. What a friggin' country ?????????????????

I could make head nor tail from your posting, so here are the basics.

You know we had the Torys from 1974 until 1997. You might not know that New Labour under Blair and Brown continued Thatcher's free market policies from day one in 1997. So we have not had a "Labour" Government since 1974.

Going by your posting, I think you are refering to having supported the Tories ( Bories ) at one time, have I read that correctly ?, and also "New" Labour, again have I read that correctly ?.
Ivanhoe


Posts: 61
Join date: 2011-12-11

Yeah Yeah have a dig.
I am not complicated and starting to feel you are goading, if you are please desist.
I have only been in your Ingerland for 30 years. When in Scotland where I was born, Scottish farmers were among the most productive in the western world!
You could go nowhere in Perthshire and NOT see a conservative flag!

So that is what I was brought up with.
There is no reason why the witch handed Scotland to the SNP on a plate! none!! It DID put Labour on the back burner, and That was all it was about - John Smith MP was not going to go anywhere and that crowd of mountebanks (conservatives) made sure of it
I am well aware of the gubmints and their allegiances thank you and for Blair to rescind the treason laws in this country, and for Brown to sell off the Gold in the manner he did, says a lot about their inner thinking!

THERE IS NO POLITICIAN OR PARTY WORTH A LIGHT IN THIS SAD COUNTRY NOW!! none!

Females experience greater excess winter mortality than males:

quite correct ivahoe!

This is because the widows are now dying off, the last of the WW2 soldiers are on their last runs! And there are demographically more women in this country than us fellahs.

Are you aware that the two area with the highest numbers of Old folk are Tyne and Wear and Liverpool. Both areas struggling but getting very little gubmint support

Yes, I agree with that last sentence. But I'm more concerned about the witch, to quote yourself, breaking the State pensions link with male average earnings in 1980, and todate the State pension has declined in value, and the excessively costly means testing put in it's place.

I ask you, how dare we means test our elderly people for demeaning and intrusive State handouts ?

oftenwrong wrote:But what did we do to get a government that so dislikes the people it governs?

A lot of the mugs voted Liberal, I suppose. The tories have allways detested the British peoples, and the Libs let 'em work on the detail.

Penderyn wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:But what did we do to get a government that so dislikes the people it governs?

A lot of the mugs voted Liberal, I suppose. The tories have allways detested the British peoples, and the Libs let 'em work on the detail.

The Tories have always used income tax cuts as a means to get votes, to get power, and to decimate our vital services.

Penderyn wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:But what did we do to get a government that so dislikes the people it governs?

A lot of the mugs voted Liberal, I suppose. The tories have allways detested the British peoples, and the Libs let 'em work on the detail.

Penderyn, i think you are being offensive to mugs, i love a good mug, drink my tea and coffee out of them, better than piddling little cups, the oppropriate word should have been idiots.

The Tories and Lib/Dems think that pensioners have money to burn, that is why they cut the fuel allowance. Don't they realise they were given the fuel allowance in the first place so that they could burn it, how else were they going to keep warm in winter. Electric and gas doesn't come free, infact it is the most expensive thing any people has to pay for, not just the old and infirm.

I

ask you, how dare we means test our elderly people for demeaning and intrusive State handouts ?.
Ivanhoe

The Tories, since Ted Heath, (I do not include Harold McMillan in this,) have ever seen ANY monies in this country as THEIR OWN (and their bestest friends) EXPLICIT PROPERTIES!

Therefore, the means testing is to whittle out those in need of the cash!

astra wrote:I

ask you, how dare we means test our elderly people for demeaning and intrusive State handouts ?.
Ivanhoe

The Tories, since Ted Heath, (I do not include Harold McMillan in this,) have ever seen ANY monies in this country as THEIR OWN (and their bestest friends) EXPLICIT PROPERTIES!

Therefore, the means testing is to whittle out those in need of the cash!

The means test is to demean, make people beg, it is subserviant.

The means test is to demean, make people beg, it is subserviant..
Ivanhoe

Quite true


In the same way as one trods on the the inconsiderate sods as one leaves the Opera or the Theatre!

Same ethic, same display of immorality but only subliminally - hidden from view!

Got any change, Guvnor?

astra wrote:

The means test is to demean, make people beg, it is subserviant..
Ivanhoe

Quite true


In the same way as one trods on the the inconsiderate sods as one leaves the Opera or the Theatre!

Same ethic, same display of immorality but only subliminally - hidden from view!

Mr Dickens I presume, Sir ?