Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

First topic message reminder :

Did you know that this Tory lead coalition Government have cut the pensioners Winter Fuel Payment, they say, in a bid to save money and cut the Deficit. I write this because the BBC TV media have not picked up on it.

For the over 60’s, the coalition have cut £50 off the payment which was £250 a year, it is now £200, and for the over 80’s they have cut the Winter fuel payment by £100, taking it from £400 to £300. And I have to repeat that this cut in the Winter Fuel payment has not been picked up by the media. And both the cuts, and the media indifference is another national scandal.

The coalition have stated this cut is to save money and cut the Deficit. But it is not to save money. It is because the right wing are driven by an ideological hatred of the welfare state. It is an arrogance against the poor, against the old.

The very existence of the former New Labour Government’s Winter Fuel payment paid to 12 million pensioners, means that the basic State pension is not enough to live on, yet more than 30,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997.

The Unions have never taken up this issue up on behalf of Britain’s elderly people, and in my view this is because our elderly people have no labour to withdraw to grab the media’s attention.

Britain’s State retirement pension has lost value over the last 30 years, it is fast diminishing. It is way below the EU average of 57 per cent. The State pension in this country is set at just 17 per cent of average earnings.

The recent public sector pension strikes have proved what can be achieved when people are hit personally, now the public and private sectors should get together and support our elderly people for higher State pensions, even though this does not affect worker’s, yet

This and previous right wing Government’s, including New Labour, have managed to divide British workers from the pensioners of this country, and these Government’s have forced people into self interest. It is time this was reversed. But how to achieve this perpetual me, me, me attitude that has spawned from the Thatcher era around 30 years ago, that’s the problem, because this self interest is inherent.

Britain’s elderly people are the backbone of our nation, in longevity terms alone they have contributed more to this country than other age groups. But the attitude from politicians is as if our elderly people haven’t paid a penny.

But their taxes and NI contributions have indeed been contributed, the Welfare State, and the NHS was founded from pensioners taxes and NI contributions when they were working, yet this generation have fundamentally been ignored since the 80’s, 30 years ago.

The richest people in this country had done extremely well since the 80’s, whereas our elderly people have been robbed of their full State pension rights in the name of political dogma.

Where do we as a nation get off allowing this and previous right wing Government’s to treat our elderly people so badly ?

And it’s this time of year when poverty is keenly felt, but not by our politicians, who in my view have not got a clue.

As Christmas eve draws near and New year’s eve follows, the political history of Britain since the 80’s has frankly reduced been to decadence.

Growing a massive rich and poor divide, which was made worse by the New Labour Government.

And now this Tory lead coalition are hitting the poor again and again and all due to ideology.

I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen and woman for being laid back and reserved when it comes to others suffering from these decadent policies administered by our right wing politicians, who do not have to endure them, themselves.

And now I am worried about how many more elderly people are going to suffer untimely deaths through this cold weather ?

If the Tory’s really wanted to cut the Deficit, there are a number of ways they could achieve this, without hurting the
most vulnerable people in this country.

This Deficit cutting is one big excuse for Cameron to attack Britain’s most vulnerable people, and I cannot believe Nick Clegg is supporting this.

astra wrote:

The means test is to demean, make people beg, it is subserviant..
Ivanhoe

Quite true


In the same way as one trods on the the inconsiderate sods as one leaves the Opera or the Theatre!

Same ethic, same display of immorality but only subliminally - hidden from view!

Mr Dickens I presume, Sir ?

oftenwrong wrote:Got any change, Guvnor?

Naa, go away you "orrible little man".

Mr Dickens only came as far north as Cleadon, near South Shields where he stayed with the Vicar - there is a small museun/ room dedicated to his visits and letters.

For my Scotland at that time - please read Dr Johnstone or before him, Daniel Defoe (of Robinson Crusoe fame) and his walk around the British Isles and in particular, those chapters appertaining to the very North of Scotland.

The Big Society Takes a New Twist...
(guardian.co.uk)

" I know that losing some of that heating allowance might seem a bit tough, ladies, but have you considered prostitution to make up the difference...?"

jackthelad wrote:

Penderyn wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:But what did we do to get a government that so dislikes the people it governs?

A lot of the mugs voted Liberal, I suppose. The tories have allways detested the British peoples, and the Libs let 'em work on the detail.

Penderyn, i think you are being offensive to mugs, i love a good mug, drink my tea and coffee out of them, better than piddling little cups, the oppropriate word should have been idiots.

The Tories and Lib/Dems think that pensioners have money to burn, that is why they cut the fuel allowance. Don't they realise they were given the fuel allowance in the first place so that they could burn it, how else were they going to keep warm in winter. Electric and gas doesn't come free, infact it is the most expensive thing any people has to pay for, not just the old and infirm.

Apologies to the mugs. They are more fragile than I thought.

Apologies to the mugs. They are more fragile than I thought

Mugs nowadays are nothing like the enamel ones we had at work (anyone remember them?)

No I did'nt think so. OK OK hide yer blushes and don't own up!!

Apologies to the mugs. They are more fragile than I thought

Mugs nowadays are nothing like the enamel ones we had at work (anyone remember them?)

No I did'nt think so. OK OK hide yer blushes and don't own up!!

The responses to my posting, are getting more and more stupid by the minute.

Of course we are all aware that those British pensioners who have moved to warmer climes such as the Med countries and Australia will also be getting their Winter Fuel payments..........

Ivanhoe wrote

"The responses to my posting, are getting more and more stupid by the minute."

The may I sugest,you apply fora sense of humour transplant whilst we still have a National elf Service.

astradt1 wrote:Of course we are all aware that those British pensioners who have moved to warmer climes such as the Med countries and Australia will also be getting their Winter Fuel payments..........

Those British pensioners that have chosen to live abroad are in the main Tories, who really don't need the winter fuel allowance. I see the Tory/Lib/Dem government (i don't really know why i added Lib/Dem, the Tories are the ones that are really in charge) are going to repatriate all the old age pensioners living in Europe if financial curcumstances get too bad for them. One thing about the Tories, they look after their own, being a tory is like being in the Grand Order of the Buffalo's, you know the one, they have the funny handshake.

astradt.

A very good friend of mines mother who is 84 has recently had to move into a Nursing home due to mental problems, her winter fuel payment was stopped. I quite agreethat it should ve been stopped but who is it tha decides whatgroup get it and wht group dont. They say that it would cost more to means test it due to the manpower involved, but someoe went through this lady's file to have hers removed. And the Queen still gets her £400.00. Poor old queenie how she must be suffering , not knowing which phucking Palace to spend her freezing nights.

As a matter of interest Jack, I thought the Royal Antediluvian order of the Buffalows was the working mans Masons.I first came accross them when I was on the London Ambulance Service, and was recomended for membership by my station Officer. Many of the other members where Ambulance Personel and some Firemen, other than it being a bit of a piss up, we also did a fair bit of Chatitable causes. There when no coppers, as they tended to join the other lot, the Free Masons, the ones wiv the dosh.

jackthelad wrote:

astradt1 wrote:Of course we are all aware that those British pensioners who have moved to warmer climes such as the Med countries and Australia will also be getting their Winter Fuel payments..........

Those British pensioners that have chosen to live abroad are in the main Tories, who really don't need the winter fuel allowance. I see the Tory/Lib/Dem government (i don't really know why i added Lib/Dem, the Tories are the ones that are really in charge) are going to repatriate all the old age pensioners living in Europe if financial curcumstances get too bad for them. One thing about the Tories, they look after their own, being a tory is like being in the Grand Order of the Buffalo's, you know the one, they have the funny handshake.

Now that's funny.

Now that's funny.

Bloody Hell, you weren't in Hospital long.

In the olden days when we had coal-miners, they were entitled to free coal for themselves, as perks of the job. It was delivered weekly to the front of their pokey little back-to-back terrace houses, loose, off the back of a lorry and onto the doorstep.

Woe betide the little lady if she hadn't transferred it through the hallway and out the back before hubby got home from the pit.

Happy days!

bobby wrote:Ivanhoe wrote

"The responses to my posting, are getting more and more stupid by the minute."

The may I sugest,you apply fora sense of humour transplant whilst we still have a National elf Service.

When Thatcher took over this country in the 80's and basically fucked it up, I lost my sense of humour, just, like, that, or, was, it, like, that ?

Ivanhoe wrote:The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How can anybody vote Tory?

 
Those who vote Tory are people who don't need WFP, and don't want to help pay the WFP to those who need it.

The irony is that British tax payers are funding a beaurocratic means test system, namely the Pensions Credit, that is costing excessivelly more than the restoration of the earnings link to male average earnings would cost.

And ille say this again. Tory pensions policy is not because of cost, it is because of idioligy.

Phil Hornby wrote:The Big Society Takes a New Twist...
(guardian.co.uk)

" I know that losing some of that heating allowance might seem a bit tough, ladies, but have you considered prostitution to make up the difference...?"

It would not supprise me if he used your quote to the 2.64 million Unemployment, but I hope the UK realize it was Labour that brought in the Winter Fuel Allowance and it will the Tories that get rid of it because thats is what will happen they will come up with some excuse or other but it will go. :affraid:

Redflag wrote:

Phil Hornby wrote:The Big Society Takes a New Twist...
(guardian.co.uk)

" I know that losing some of that heating allowance might seem a bit tough, ladies, but have you considered prostitution to make up the difference...?"

It would not supprise me if he used your quote to the 2.64 million Unemployment, but I hope the UK realize it was Labour that brought in the Winter Fuel Allowance and it will the Tories that get rid of it because thats is what will happen they will come up with some excuse or other but it will go. :affraid:

The Tory right wing are plain and simply, wicked.

This Tory led Coalition is allready phucking all and sundry, and it aint costing them a brass razzu. If those little old ladies turned to prostitition, Herr Cameron would have to pay, then again I suppose he would put the costs down to the tax payer, just as he did with his personal photographer.

bobby wrote:This Tory led Coalition is allready phucking all and sundry, and it aint costing them a brass razzu. If those little old ladies turned to prostitition, Herr Cameron would have to pay, then again I suppose he would put the costs down to the tax payer, just as he did with his personal photographer.

Heavens above Bobby you can read him like a book, you have hit the nail on the head.

bobby wrote:This Tory led Coalition is allready phucking all and sundry, and it aint costing them a brass razzu. If those little old ladies turned to prostitition, Herr Cameron would have to pay, then again I suppose he would put the costs down to the tax payer, just as he did with his personal photographer.

How very true Booby and how sad is that. What does they say about a government who act in such a way i wonder?

Redflag wrote:

bobby wrote:This Tory led Coalition is allready phucking all and sundry, and it aint costing them a brass razzu. If those little old ladies turned to prostitition, Herr Cameron would have to pay, then again I suppose he would put the costs down to the tax payer, just as he did with his personal photographer.

Heavens above Bobby you can read him like a book, you have hit the nail on the head.

Hiya Red?

Hi Red and Stox,

Fancy seeing you here.

Agreed, it was a pretty mean and low down trick cutting the pensioners winter fuel payment. Especially at a time when the energy companies have increased prices by up to 4X that of inflation.

LWS wrote:Hi Red and Stox,

Fancy seeing you here.

Agreed, it was a pretty mean and low down trick cutting the pensioners winter fuel payment. Especially at a time when the energy companies have increased prices by up to 4X that of inflation.

Hi LWS
Well like a bad penny we both happen to turn up. Still its good to see you on here LWS.
Back to the subject in hand. yes it was mean in my book. I ask you... is this really that necessary? Hell this is such small beer at the end of the day

Fancy seeing you here....... shocked I Bet ha ha ha

The harm this meaness has done transcends the cost to the exchequer. The cost pales into insignificance and when you consider it, such an act probably costs more than it saves. When you consider the increased NHS costs involved in treating people with hypothermia. Have these dispicable Tories no shame?

Yes I was shocked! ...and no sign of you know who either!

LWS wrote:The harm this meaness has done transcends the cost to the exchequer. The cost pales into insignificance and when you consider it, such an act probably costs more than it saves. When you consider the increased NHS costs involved in treating people with hypothermia. Have these dispicable Tories no shame?

Yes I was shocked! ...and no sign of you know who either!

I cannot agree more. it just cannot make great economic senses at all. but it does show how low they will go with there cuts LWS

No thank god. hell, we have to have some rest from you know who

Stox 16 wrote:

LWS wrote:The harm this meaness has done transcends the cost to the exchequer. The cost pales into insignificance and when you consider it, such an act probably costs more than it saves. When you consider the increased NHS costs involved in treating people with hypothermia. Have these dispicable Tories no shame?

Yes I was shocked! ...and no sign of you know who either!

I cannot agree more. it just cannot make great economic senses at all. but it does show how low they will go with there cuts LWS

No thank god. hell, we have to have some rest from you know who

It is not about economics. It is about right wing ideoligy.

Ivanhoe wrote:

Stox 16 wrote:

LWS wrote:The harm this meaness has done transcends the cost to the exchequer. The cost pales into insignificance and when you consider it, such an act probably costs more than it saves. When you consider the increased NHS costs involved in treating people with hypothermia. Have these dispicable Tories no shame?

Yes I was shocked! ...and no sign of you know who either!

I cannot agree more. it just cannot make great economic senses at all. but it does show how low they will go with there cuts LWS

No thank god. hell, we have to have some rest from you know who

It is not about economics. It is about right wing ideoligy.

your spot on Ivanhoe. but they will try to sell it as that, I bet

Stox 16 wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:

Stox 16 wrote:

LWS wrote:The harm this meaness has done transcends the cost to the exchequer. The cost pales into insignificance and when you consider it, such an act probably costs more than it saves. When you consider the increased NHS costs involved in treating people with hypothermia. Have these dispicable Tories no shame?

Yes I was shocked! ...and no sign of you know who either!

I cannot agree more. it just cannot make great economic senses at all. but it does show how low they will go with there cuts LWS

No thank god. hell, we have to have some rest from you know who

It is not about economics. It is about right wing ideoligy.

your spot on Ivanhoe. but they will try to sell it as that, I bet

Yes, and they will get away with it, these Tory's are laughing all the way to the bank, while Rome burns, and its people fight amongst themselves.

A lot of what the government is doing is been done in what you might term as been "in the small print", in other words some of the more nasty details are buried almost out of sight away from the main headlines of a government bill.

A good example of course been the NHS reform bill, also the financial settlement details for the NHS, which at first glance seems pretty fair, until you read deeper into it and realize that the NHS currently has funding at an almost record low level.

The cuts to the Winter Fuel Payment went by almost unoticed, I cannot remember any great fuss about it, all I can say is that the pensioners who use my local bus service, and who s gossip and chatter I over-hear have had plenty to say about it.

The top bankers get away with murder whilst a pensioner of modest means has their Winter Fuel Payment taken off them - CONSERVATIVES.

witchfinder wrote:A lot of what the government is doing is been done in what you might term as been "in the small print", in other words some of the more nasty details are buried almost out of sight away from the main headlines of a government bill.

A good example of course been the NHS reform bill, also the financial settlement details for the NHS, which at first glance seems pretty fair, until you read deeper into it and realize that the NHS currently has funding at an almost record low level.

The cuts to the Winter Fuel Payment went by almost unoticed, I cannot remember any great fuss about it, all I can say is that the pensioners who use my local bus service, and who s gossip and chatter I over-hear have had plenty to say about it.

The top bankers get away with murder whilst a pensioner of modest means has their Winter Fuel Payment taken off them - CONSERVATIVES.

I do wish some people would stop refering to today's right wing Torys as "Conservatives".. "Decent one nation left of centre Conservatism" died with Red Heath's demise, and when Thatcher took over in 1979, and infiltrated the Conservative party with right wingers.

And it is the right wing who have run Britain since the 80's, including New Labour under Blair and then Brown, they embraced Thatcher's free market, where the top are well looked after, and the banks take over the role of what the State provides, while the poor are thrown on the scrap heap.

Again, this is right wing ideoligy at work here, because the right wing do not believe in the role of the State, including the State pension.

These cuts backs have nothing to do with expense. I wonder how many pensioners in this country are politically educated and as such understand precisely what has been happening in Britain since the 80s, and therfore know that their State pension is low due to ideoligy, and not expense.

I would add that Margaret Thatcher's means testing began when Mrs T broke the link with male average earnings in 1980, and brought in means testing, which is costing 15 to 20 more than the restoration of the State pensions link with earnings would cost. I wonder how many, if any, pensioners are aware of this ?

LWS wrote:Hi Red and Stox,

Fancy seeing you here.

Agreed, it was a pretty mean and low down trick cutting the pensioners winter fuel payment. Especially at a time when the energy companies have increased prices by up to 4X that of inflation.

And it is good too seeing you on hear LWS, Everything that Labour did that benefited this country will be eroded away so that eventually we will have to doff our caps to the land owners and the landed gentry.

And maybe it will tell the UK what problems Mrs T has caused the UK people when she sold our gas and electric to the private sector and if anybody remembers her war cry these companies are loosing us money very funny NOT.

LWS wrote:The harm this meaness has done transcends the cost to the exchequer. The cost pales into insignificance and when you consider it, such an act probably costs more than it saves. When you consider the increased NHS costs involved in treating people with hypothermia. Have these dispicable Tories no shame?

Yes I was shocked! ...and no sign of you know who either!

You should know LWS the Tory Gov't has not got a conscience for anybody but themselves and there City friends, the chancellor does not have the money to give the full amount of Winter Fuel Allowance but he has £3.5 Billion to spend on his pet project HS2 a new train service so it looks like we are in for another round of cuts.

What should people think about today's news that Tony Blair's network of interlocking companies earned him £12million last year, and paid £300,000 in Tax after deduction of expenses? A kebab shop pays more than 2½% tax.

Doncaster council are asking their workers to take a 4% wage cut, or lose their jobs. I wonder how many MP's would take a pay cut to save their jobs, after all they don't really have a useful job. Kids at kintergarden could manage what they do, sit an and make ridiculouse noises and wave a piece of paper about during question time. There are lots of worth while jobs with the council, from waste collectors to houseing maintenence, in fact there is a list as long as your arm. Bankers, well one that i know of from the paper this morning is getting a 7 million pound bonus this year, a bank rescued by the tax payer. RBS is in debt to the British tax payer for billions of pounds, not a penny paid back yet, and the price of their shares is going down faster than the Titanic. How can this bonus be justified while people who do a worth while job are asked to take a pay cut or lose their jobs.
Cameron was questioned about it, and all he could say was, that a few years ago car makers had to take pay cuts or lose their jobs.
Why should MP's wages be safe, after all, they produce nothing, unlike the workers in this country.

Ivanhoe, as for the Right wing Tory's being reffered to as Conservatives. The unfortunite reality is "If they eat with Pigs, they all end up grunting.
Had the "Conservatives" not gioven their suport, the Tory's would not now be in power.
As far as I am concerned they may have started out as one thing, pre 1979, but now all are Tory's and scum

bobby wrote:Ivanhoe, as for the Right wing Tory's being reffered to as Conservatives. The unfortunite reality is "If they eat with Pigs, they all end up grunting.
Had the "Conservatives" not gioven their suport, the Tory's would not now be in power.
As far as I am concerned they may have started out as one thing, pre 1979, but now all are Tory's and scum

I became a Labour activist before Blair took Labour to the right. I began this activety with the decent one nation Labour party from 1987, because I believed in "traditional" Labour' core values, against everything that was and still is, Thatcherism.

However, by todays standards, I could be regarding as a left of centre small "c" Conservative.

In his keynote speach today Ed Millaband say he might now be able to reverse the winter fuel payment cuts if Labour came back to power....Why not???? And if he doesn't, will that mean you lot stop voting for Labour (Re: How can anyone vote Tory)