Does any religion matter at all today?

by Stox 16 Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:35 am

First topic message reminder :

I will be interested to read peoples thoughts on this question. Does any Religion matter at all today?

I cannot see that any religious church's or anything religious even matters today at all. The only true religion I have ever come across is, Money, Political Power, Land, and greed. all the things we are told they are against, this goes for all religions too in my view.

in fact all the faiths I have come across use all of the tools of money, political power, Land and greed to re-force there religious views on there followers. i have never come across any religion that does not use at least one of this tools to enforce there religious views on the people they are said to be looking after.

I have read over the years all the religious books i can find, and have yet too be moved by any of them. some have very good stories that have something in them for every reader. but their it ends for me. maybe someone can explain why any of this is so important today? as i cannot find anything within the books that states this is very important today or in the past. I myself have come to believe that religion has more to do with the thought of death or dying and the human need to believe that life goes on after death.

However, when we was all born we did not feel pain or come into being with some religious thought in our heads or a book in our hands did we? in fact we had know idea about religion at all? so only find out what religion we are when someone tells us that this is our religion? yet you would think we would all know this already if there was a god? So we only find out what our religion is after birth? or do you believe you know what you religion was before birth? (i did not) if someone told me i was a follower of Islam, I would of said OK at five years old. in fact they could of given me any religion and i would of said fine.

So religion seems to me, religion only matters a get deal more the older you get? so I am told, well if so its failing on me badly. so anyway, it matter more as you get closer to death then? so is this more to do with our human need for life to go on somehow? as we find it hard to believe that life comes to an end and we go into darkness of no mans land? just like before we was born?

I was told at about 6 years old by my mother that this was my faith. but in total truth my mother could of said any faith was my religion and i would of gone along with what she said. To me that was it, Its that simple then. i did not then think about anything religious till i was in the Army in standing in a street in the middle of green line in a war zone in the Lebanon. with both Christains killing, Muslims Killing, Catholic Maronite's Killing, Druze faith Killing, Jewish killing. at first wondering why they was all doing this? not for religion or faith but power and using religion to justify there actions. I remember thinking. just suppose these people had been given a different religion by there mothers. they would instead of killing as a Maronite gunman they would of been killing Maronite's as a Druze gunman?

So your religion is picked for you in my view and some even change it too. yet you would think if you know your god at your death. you should know who you god is before birth? but we do not. So does any of this really matter any more?

well i well be interrested to read your thought on this. its not about any one religion but all of them.

by oftenwrong Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:00 pm

The stock responses to any and all comment are so well-known to us by now that they could be allocated a number. To save space.

Religion matters to those who think it does. The opinion of anyone else can't be relevant.

by Tosh Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:41 pm

Religion matters to those who think it does. The opinion of anyone else can't be relevant..

Religion affects all of us, this makes it matter and relevant to all of us.

For what it is worth, thanks for your opinion.

by oftenwrong Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:39 pm

Religion affects all of us, this makes it matter and relevant to all of us.

Here endeth the discussion.

Next!

by Tosh Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:48 pm

Here endeth the discussion. Next!.

Here endeth the lesson, next ?

by Shirina Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:20 pm

I can assure you I have enjoyed a far better life than the vast majority of people and enjoyed all that God has given us rather than spend my time taking drugs and getting stoned out of my mind and pretending that we all came about by some obscure event that has no credibility whatsoever.

I find it an interesting sociological exercise to ponder why so many Christians equate a lack of religion to taking drugs, getting drunk, and having sex. I'm probably one of the worst offenders of teetotaling you'll ever see, and, perhaps, that's a big reason why I've found no solace in religion. I have never drank, snorted, injected, or shagged my life into a dark abyss and, thus, never needed a religious life jacket.

Science is 99% supposition and that that can be actually proven does not substanciate the evolution theory, theory being the operative word.

Now, in all seriousness, how can anyone really expect to believe this statement? Am I to assume that the myriad of scientific principles that allow your computer to function consistently are mere supposition? I'm sure that you have an array of scientifically engineered appliances and devices around your home, and I am sure that you see a scientist when you get sick ... and don't stand around questioning science when your doctor prescribes a treatment. You don't question the science behind why your car takes you from place to place or why a light turns on when you flick a switch. You don't question why you can change a TV channel with a remote control, why water comes out of your faucet, or why you can pick up a phone and talk to someone anywhere in the world. If 99% of science was mere supposition, then none of our technology, not even the science of pumping water out of a well, would function.

You would enjoy far more of life if you enveloped the things God gave us and this enhances life rather than the oposite.

The things that I enjoy, I enjoy because they have intrinsic value. I do not enjoy a tasty hamburger, for instance, because God gave it to me (assuming he did).

by snowyflake Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:29 pm

I can assure you I have enjoyed a far better life than the vast majority of people and enjoyed all that God has given us rather than spend my time taking drugs and getting stoned out of my mind and pretending that we all came about by some obscure event that has no credibility whatsoever.

I find this amusing. Without God you would be an immoral, hedonistic human disaster? My personal experience with believers (not counting Rock) is that they need God, a father figure, to keep them on the straight and narrow. If that is true, then believers are indeed weak minded. Ask yourself, if you didn't believe in God are you likely to run rampant in your life? If the answer is yes, then you are a horrible person. If the answer is no, then you don't need God in the first place. You can live a decent life that is loving, moral, productive, ethical and meaningful without all the baggage that religion throws in your way.

Science is 99% supposition and that that can be actually proven does not substanciate the evolution theory, theory being the operative word.

This is even more amusing. Please do not argue science when you have no information or education to support your views. Making random statements like the above only highlights your complete lack of knowledge in this area. Do your own research (not on believers websites) and then come back with a cogent argument. Read a science book.

No one understands the full extent of the abilities of the brain and there is no possible way in which to explain how it was originated other than an intelligent source being involved.

There are thousands of research labs around the world investigating neuroscience. I can assure you, they know a lot more than you or I on the subject. Evolution has answered the question of how our brains came to be. When you don't understand evolution or neuroscience how can you argue sensibly?

You can work out to a certain extent what the activities of the brain involve but that does not in any way prove how they were created, created being the operative word.

You are using the God of the Gaps to plug up your lack of knowledge. If you can't understand it or explain it, therefore God must have created it. This is lazy thinking.

You would enjoy far more of life if you enveloped the things God gave us and this enhances life rather than the oposite.

Not to be too sniffy about this but you don't know me at all or how much I enjoy my life. Belief in imaginary supreme beings is delusional. Ask any psychiatrist. It is no different than believing in fairies, leprachauns or gremlins.

by Tosh Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:50 pm

polyglide doesn't need a psychiatrist, just a sheperd.

Says it all really.

by Tosh Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:00 pm

I clicked on page 1 in error and this popped up, I almost ended myself laughing.

oftenwrong wrote: Quite so. Respect has to be earned. That's why it isn't always easy to afford respect to a Poster whose idea of discussion is straightforward repetition of what has already been said.

ROCKONBROTHER wrote: I'm so glad that you don't respect me.

.

Have you two kissed and made up ?

by polyglide Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:43 pm

Shirina, you can believe the statement because we are not able to know the full extent of just what science can consider, the 99% may in fact be an over statement and we may know even less of all that is involved both in the earth and the universe and science may have only considered and at times not very well a minute part of the whole.

To suggest that a computer or any other man made gadget can be compared with creation is beyond belief, how can you compare a computer with a bee hive or a butterfly or an oak tree ? etc;

Life for many, was far more enjoyable prior to all the new technology and far more rewarding.

Sorry about the sex life Shirina, it appears all you have in life is a distinct dislike of all that God gave us.

by polyglide Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:45 pm

Tosh, grow up.

by Shirina Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:59 pm

To suggest that a computer or any other man made gadget can be compared with creation is beyond belief, how can you compare a computer with a bee hive or a butterfly or an oak tree ? etc;

The origin of the universe doesn't even amount to 1% of science, much less 99% of it. The massive amount of science that goes into our technology that allows it to both work and work consistently is staggering. For even 50% of it to be "supposition" as you claimed would make a technological world impossible.

Life for many, was far more enjoyable prior to all the new technology and far more rewarding.

Says who? You? It certainly would not have been that way for me. Had I been born 100 or even 50 years ago, my only options would be to spend the rest of my life in agonizing pain with no medication and no sources of entertainment to distract me or exercise my mind .... or commit suicide. In that sense, technology is the only reason why I'm still alive.

Sorry about the sex life Shirina, it appears all you have in life is a distinct dislike of all that God gave us.

What's there to be sorry for? I had my fill of it. Besides, isn't fornication against Christian teaching? You should be happy for my ... restraint.

by Tosh Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Tosh, grow up..

LMAO.

No. bounce

by Tosh Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:41 pm

Sorry about the sex life Shirina,

Nevermind her, I am in a wheelchair with a rather smelly stuffed dog and my memories of " Nam ". Cool

by snowyflake Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:57 am

Life for many, was far more enjoyable prior to all the new technology and far more rewarding.

This is the romanticists world view thinking things were so much better 50 years ago. 50 years ago we had racism, homophobia, domestic violence, paedophilia, lynch mobs (America), date rape, sexual harrassment, chauvinism, misogyny, discrimination against the disabled and mentally ill. Now those things exist today but we have grown as a society and there are laws and advocates protecting people against infringements of any of the above. This is, in no way, thanks to religion who still want women to be obedient to their husbands and children to be obedient to their parents. And if it has anything to do with sex, shhhhhh don't mention it. Perhaps, polyglide, you can answer me why does God take such a creepy fascination with people's sex lives?

I work with many young people and they are fantastic. Loving, kind, accepting and tolerant and thankfully they are the majority. We are a much better society than we were 50 years ago.

by boatlady Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:14 am

Snowyflake, I would endorse your comments that in many ways we are amuch better society than we were 50 years ago; I think for young people ethics and moral judgements are much more on the agenda than they were for my generation, because young people have access to so much more information via the internet etc, and really have to think about the ethical issues in a direct and relevant way, as opposed to the 'mushroom ' culture of my youth (keep 'em in the dark and feed 'em s--t), which often led to a set of complacent and unthinking responses to thre ethical issues.

by oftenwrong Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:17 am

".... why does God take such a creepy fascination with people's sex lives?"

Why should anyone suppose that He is remotely interested in our preoccupation with the squishy moments in our lives?

Any and all of the attributes of God have been expressed by humans.

by snowyflake Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:49 am

Why should anyone suppose that He is remotely interested in our preoccupation with the squishy moments in our lives?

Because the 'holy' texts for the various religions are adamant that God takes an interest in who you have sex with and is responsible for much of the homophobia still present today. Christianity has stopped stoning people, burning witches, killing heretics...don't you think it's about time to stop being homophobic as well? Christianity has shown that it can evolve but it is clinging by its teeth to this last relic of intolerance. Perhaps, with any luck, Islam will follow in its footsteps.

You don't strike me as the kind of guy to engage in squishy moments OW....

by snowyflake Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:55 am

Thank you polyglide for your response. You can thank science for internet. Smile

by oftenwrong Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:36 pm

"....Because the 'holy' texts for the various religions are adamant that God takes an interest in who you have sex with...."

"Holy texts" written by men?

An answer of "Yes" or "No" should suffice.

by snowyflake Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:38 pm

"Holy texts" written by men?

Yes. But claimed to be the word of God.

An answer of "Yes" or "No" should suffice.

Ok

by Tosh Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:50 pm

Why should anyone suppose that He is remotely interested in our preoccupation with the squishy moments in our lives?

The same reaon anyone would believe He exists and created everything, or did you just come up with the idea without cribbing.

I love religious cherry pickers and fellacious nit pickers.

by oftenwrong Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:59 pm

I love religious cherry pickers and fellacious nit pickers.

FELLACIOUS ??

fellacious
adj (derived from fellatio) - when something is so good or cool you'd give it head if you could.

That cake was so fellacious I think I wanna go give my boyfriend head!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fellacious
Adj. a pay off or reward with benefits comparable to oral sex.

Ooooh, Tosh, I never knew you cared. Rolling Eyes

by Tosh Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:18 pm

Ooooh, Tosh, I never knew you cared.

oooooh sage, you are by far the biggest fish I have ever hooked.

One a day my friend one a day.

A satiric misspelling is an intentional misspelling of a word, phrase or name for a rhetorical purpose. This is often done by replacing a letter with another letter (for example, k replacing c), or symbol (for example, $ replacing s, @ replacing a, or ¢ replacing c). Satiric misspelling is found particularly in informal writing on the Internet,

Not so clever now are we sweetie ?

lolololol

by Shirina Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:17 pm

Nevermind her, I am in a wheelchair with a rather smelly stuffed dog and my memories of " Nam ".

You're slipping, Tosh. You forget about the metal plate in your head. Sheesh. jocolor

by oftenwrong Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:55 pm

The metal plate controls the wooden spoon.

by Tosh Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:03 am

The metal plate controls the wooden spoon. .

I am simply the best at it, think of me as a stress test of your emotional metal. Very Happy

Come on Europe, 10-6 down but " WE " can do it !!!

by Tosh Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:05 am

You're slipping, Tosh. You forget about the metal plate in your head. Sheesh.

It causes amnesia, I had forgotten about it, thanks for reminding me, chubby. What a Face

by polyglide Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:08 pm

Tosh, I have you down to a T.

I believe you are a very devout Christian using a very intelligent way in which to turn people towards our Lord, by a load of nonsense regarding any other explanations for our existance you will eventually turn everyone towards creation and the truth, keep up the good work.

by boatlady Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:30 pm

Ooh, that's got to smart!

by Tosh Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:30 pm

Ooh, that's got to smart!.

You wish, I find polyglide very amusing. What a Face

by oftenwrong Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:28 pm

Is that faint odour the smell of desperation?

by Tosh Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:18 pm

Is that faint odour the smell of desperation?.

I don't know which is more off, your sense of smell or your sense of perception.

Carry on sniffing and dreaming.

by KnarkyBadger Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:19 am

Pope Benedict XVI today resigns as pontiff. The first pope to do so in 598yrs since Gregory XII in 1415.

by boatlady Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:10 pm

wonder why?

by Guest Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:05 pm

by **Ivan** Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:16 pm

The Pope is 85 years old and clearly ill. It may be unexpected because of historical precedent, but is it surprising if he feels he can no longer cope with the job and wants to retire? He was the right-hand man of the last Pope, who continued in the job for many years after he was capable of doing it; it would appear that Benedict XVI doesn't want to follow suit.

by Guest Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:23 pm

KnarkyBadger wrote:
Pope Benedict XVI today resigns as pontiff. The first pope to do so in 598yrs since Gregory XII in 1415.

boatlady wrote:
Wonder why?

This might shed some light.

Los Angeles Times Local

L.A. NOW
Southern California -- this just in

Cardinal Mahony removed from public church duties
January 31, 2013 | 7:11 pm

Los Angeles Archbishop Jose Gomez on Thursday announced… that Cardinal Roger Mahony… who led the L.A. archdiocese from 1985 to 2011 -- "will no longer have any administrative or public duties."

Gomez also announced the church has released a trove of confidential church files detailing how the Los Angeles archdiocese dealt with priests accused of molestation.

"I find these files to be brutal and painful reading. The behavior described in these files is… evil. There is no excuse, no explaining away what happened to these children…" [Gomez] wrote.

… internal Catholic church records… showed 15 years before the clergy sex abuse scandal came to light, Mahony and [Santa Barbara Bishop Thomas] Curry discussed ways to conceal the molestation of children from law enforcement. Those records represent just a fraction of the files the church released Thursday. The Times is now reviewing those files.

The newly released records, which the archdiocese fought for years to keep secret, reveal in church leaders' own words a desire to keep authorities from discovering that children were being molested.

The records contain memos written in 1986 and 1987 by Mahony and Curry [in which] Curry proposed… that they prevent the priests from seeing therapists who might alert authorities and that they give the priests out-of-state assignments to avoid criminal investigators.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/01/cardinal-mahony-stripped-of-public-church-duties-amid-priest-abuse-.html

Perhaps Pope Benedict XVI is resigning because the Los Angeles (California) Archdiocese’s cover-up was covered up by the Vatican.

by Guest Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:20 pm

More on the Los Angeles Archdiocese and Roger Cardinal Mahony.

Los Angeles Times Local

Los Angeles Archdiocese: Priest abuse files

… in 1986 and 1987 [memos] contained in personnel files for 14 priests and filed… as evidence in a court case… to prevent police from investigating three priests who had admitted molesting young boys…

http://documents.latimes.com/los-angeles-archdiocese-priest-abuse-files/

Los Angeles Times Local

L.A. church leaders sought to hide sex abuse cases from authorities
By Victoria Kim, Ashley Powers and Harriet Ryan, Los Angeles Times
January 21, 2013, 2:31 p.m.

One such case that has previously received little attention is that of Msgr. Peter Garcia, who admitted preying for decades on undocumented children in predominantly Spanish-speaking parishes. After Garcia's discharge from a New Mexico treatment center for pedophile clergy, Mahony ordered him to stay away from California "for the foreseeable future" in order to avoid legal accountability, the files show. "I believe that if Monsignor Garcia were to reappear here within the archdiocese we might very well have some type of legal action filed in both the criminal and civil sectors," the archbishop wrote to the treatment center's director in July 1986.

The following year, in a letter to Mahony about bringing Garcia back to work in the archdiocese, Curry said he was worried that victims in Los Angeles might see the priest and call police.

"[T]here are numerous — maybe twenty — adolescents or young adults that Peter was involved with in a first degree felony manner. The possibility of one of these seeing him is simply too great," Curry wrote in May 1987.

Garcia was never prosecuted and died in 2009. The files show he admitted to a therapist that he had sexually abused boys "on and off" since his 1966 ordination. He assured church officials his victims were unlikely to come forward because of their immigration status. In at least one case, according to a church memo, he threatened to have a boy he had raped deported if he went to police.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-church-files-20130122,0,3114631.story

by oftenwrong Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:26 pm

The newsreel pictures tell the whole story. The poor old sod is buggered. As was his predecessor. Give him a break, can't you? Don't worry about Jeremy *unt's £75,000 - the crucifix alone is worth ten times that.

by Guest Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:34 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Give him a break, can't you?

No. The good Pope gave no break to the children raped in Los Angeles on his watch.

by oftenwrong Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:53 pm

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.
Bible. John 8 : 7

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