Does any religion matter at all today?

by Stox 16 Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:35 am

First topic message reminder :

I will be interested to read peoples thoughts on this question. Does any Religion matter at all today?

I cannot see that any religious church's or anything religious even matters today at all. The only true religion I have ever come across is, Money, Political Power, Land, and greed. all the things we are told they are against, this goes for all religions too in my view.

in fact all the faiths I have come across use all of the tools of money, political power, Land and greed to re-force there religious views on there followers. i have never come across any religion that does not use at least one of this tools to enforce there religious views on the people they are said to be looking after.

I have read over the years all the religious books i can find, and have yet too be moved by any of them. some have very good stories that have something in them for every reader. but their it ends for me. maybe someone can explain why any of this is so important today? as i cannot find anything within the books that states this is very important today or in the past. I myself have come to believe that religion has more to do with the thought of death or dying and the human need to believe that life goes on after death.

However, when we was all born we did not feel pain or come into being with some religious thought in our heads or a book in our hands did we? in fact we had know idea about religion at all? so only find out what religion we are when someone tells us that this is our religion? yet you would think we would all know this already if there was a god? So we only find out what our religion is after birth? or do you believe you know what you religion was before birth? (i did not) if someone told me i was a follower of Islam, I would of said OK at five years old. in fact they could of given me any religion and i would of said fine.

So religion seems to me, religion only matters a get deal more the older you get? so I am told, well if so its failing on me badly. so anyway, it matter more as you get closer to death then? so is this more to do with our human need for life to go on somehow? as we find it hard to believe that life comes to an end and we go into darkness of no mans land? just like before we was born?

I was told at about 6 years old by my mother that this was my faith. but in total truth my mother could of said any faith was my religion and i would of gone along with what she said. To me that was it, Its that simple then. i did not then think about anything religious till i was in the Army in standing in a street in the middle of green line in a war zone in the Lebanon. with both Christains killing, Muslims Killing, Catholic Maronite's Killing, Druze faith Killing, Jewish killing. at first wondering why they was all doing this? not for religion or faith but power and using religion to justify there actions. I remember thinking. just suppose these people had been given a different religion by there mothers. they would instead of killing as a Maronite gunman they would of been killing Maronite's as a Druze gunman?

So your religion is picked for you in my view and some even change it too. yet you would think if you know your god at your death. you should know who you god is before birth? but we do not. So does any of this really matter any more?

well i well be interrested to read your thought on this. its not about any one religion but all of them.

by Shirina Wed May 01, 2013 4:27 pm

The world is in a far worse staet than ever before.

Your arch-nemesis, Mr. Evidence, says otherwise.

We have children starving in the most so called civilised countries.

No one in the West is literally starving. I came from starvation and this ain't it. Even so, it used to be that EVERYONE was starving aside from kings, nobility, pharaohs, sultans, sheiks, and emperors. It used to be that entire civilizations were one late spring frost away from annihilation. Just ask the French what happened to them during the Little Ice Age.

Only today more reports of perverts using and abusing children.

Are you aware of precisely why we have perverts in modern society? The word "pervert" used to only apply to those who abandoned Christianity. It wasn't until 1897 when the word was first used to describe sexual deviants. Do you have a clue why? Care to take a guess? It was because only in MODERN society did children have any real rights. Even in the United States, the age of consent was seven (7) years old just 120 years ago, and in Europe, it was even lower. There was no such thing as "pedophilia" and it certainly wasn't a crime until very recently. This is proof beyond all doubt that things are NOT worse now than before. You aren't going to find police reports of pedophilia 150 years ago because it didn't exist - not because adults didn't have sex with children but because it wasn't a crime.

Murders are a daily event.

When has that NOT been true? You can't even get 5 pages into the Bible before Cain is murdering Abel.

Drugs are becoming the norm for those unable to deal with their life.

All drugs were legal up until the modern era, another indication that we're heading in the right direction. US Presidents were often treated medically with narcotics right on up through Franklin Roosevelt, and Coca-Cola used to contain cocaine as an ingredient! If things are getting worse, why are drugs illegal when the used to be available practically off the shelf at any local DRUG store?

Suicides are reported on a daily basis with many unable to deal with the present circumstances.

Up until recently, people often didn't even live long enough to get sick of life.

One child evry second is dies because no one cares.

Then women living in impoverished Third World nations should stop having 8 children in the hopes that one survives past infancy. It's not always the fault of apathy or people not caring.

by polyglide Fri May 03, 2013 11:14 am

I have not taken you to task regarding the state of the world and the figures you use but I would pointb outy the following.

Since WWI tyhere has been 250 major conflicts.

Three times more people have been killed and millions injured during the past 90 years than all ther other wars etc: put together.

Now this is why I cannot understand how you come up with your interpretation of the state of the World today.

worldrevolution.org may help you to get the facts correct.

by Tosh Fri May 03, 2013 2:06 pm

Now this is why I cannot understand how you come up with your interpretation of the state of the World today.

polyglide,

Ever heard of killing technology ?

Ever read Leviticus or Deuteronomy ?

Safe to say if we put modern technology in the hands of our God believers from the bronze age, there would be no humans left.

by snowyflake Fri May 03, 2013 6:05 pm

Three times more people have been killed and millions injured during the past 90 years than all ther other wars etc: put together.

We might know this because record keeping has been so much more advanced in the last century than any time before that. We have photographs, sound recordings, film, computer documentation, published books and articles and magazines. Before that, I would say that record keeping was pretty dodgy at best. Most countries did not record their defeats, certainly Egypt did not. They only recorded their wins.

If you could post your sources please polyglide, that would help. Many thanks Smile

by oftenwrong Fri May 03, 2013 7:38 pm

Does any religion matter at all today?

On the evidence of this thread, Religion matters most to those who claim to have no such belief.

by snowyflake Fri May 03, 2013 8:26 pm

Does any religion matter at all today?

On the evidence of this thread, Religion matters most to those who claim to have no such belief.

Does it matter to you, OW? You seem to have a lot of nothing to add most of the time.

by Tosh Fri May 03, 2013 8:44 pm

On the evidence of this thread, Religion matters most to those who claim to have no such belief.

Religion matters to the persecuted, that is me....and me.....and a chap called me.

On the evidence of your recent posts you have just plum run out of sagacity, you could have been a contender but now....

by Guest Fri May 03, 2013 11:45 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Does any religion matter at all today?

On the evidence of this thread, Religion matters most to those who claim to have no such belief.

On the evidence of your posts, covert derailment of thread topics through cryptic remarks matters most to you.

by snowyflake Sat May 04, 2013 8:40 am

Religion matters because the religious nutters in the world would have everyone believing ONLY in their particular brand of religion and if they don't believe, by God, they will make you believe. There is no freedom of thought with a believer. They are not free to entertain any alternative morality to their existence. They persecute homosexuals, deny them equal rights and equality under the law. They oppose safe abortion. They secretly oppose all other beliefs but their own. Men are the dominant force and women are subjugated, overtly, as in the Asian and Middle Eastern faiths or subtly, as in Christianity in America.

So yes, religion matters because religious nutters would have legislation to corral all people under their own beliefs without regard to anyone else's beliefs and without regard to what is fair, kind and above all equal.

by Shirina Sat May 04, 2013 11:23 am

Since WWI tyhere has been 250 major conflicts.

WWII
Korean War
Vietnam War
Yom Kippur War
Bosnia-Herzagovina
Russian invasion of Afghanistan
Russian invasion of Chechnya
Iran-Iraq War
Operation Desert Storm
Operation Iraqi Freedom

I may be missing a few others. But only a few. I question your definition of "major" conflict.

by Shirina Sat May 04, 2013 11:31 am

Now this is why I cannot understand how you come up with your interpretation of the state of the World today.

How many nations in the world are currently conducting substantial combat operations against another nation?

How many nations in the world are currently in the throes of a civil war?

If you can answer those two questions, you'll know why I say what I do.

by Tosh Sat May 04, 2013 1:23 pm

If the idiot who keeps deleteing my posts half way through would just go and find another source of amusement I would appreciate it.

Its God's work, you are embarrassing him.

by oftenwrong Sat May 04, 2013 1:36 pm

Deuteronomy 29:20

The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

by snowyflake Sun May 05, 2013 8:07 am

Arrgghh.....seriously Deuteronomy is always a conversation stopper Smile

by Shirina Sun May 05, 2013 9:40 pm

snowyflake wrote:Arrgghh.....seriously Deuteronomy is always a conversation stopper

Heh, isn't it, though?

Nothing like having a perfect God who is also JEALOUS.

I guess jealousy is a sign of perfection.

by Tosh Sun May 05, 2013 10:27 pm

Nothing like having a perfect God who is also JEALOUS.

Is that jealous with a " Y " ?

OK, I will stop, taken it wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too far.

by skwalker1964 Sun May 05, 2013 11:42 pm

Personally, if my wife thought I was interested in another woman and wasn't jealous, I'd consider it a bad sign.

by trevorw2539 Mon May 06, 2013 8:25 pm

snowyflake wrote:Arrgghh.....seriously Deuteronomy is always a conversation stopper

Why?

The verse quoted was nothing to do with anyone but the Hebrews. The Torah and Oral Torah were written by Hebrews for Hebrews. It was never intended that 'Gentiles' should be expected to read them, or believe them. The only way that people would believe in the Hebrew God was the behaviour of the Hebrews themselves in their dealings with God and other nations. This is clear when God tells them they are to be his witnesses on earth - more than once.

The fact that it is part of the Christian Bible is simply the Christian interpretation of events and 'prophecies' in the OT.

by Tosh Mon May 06, 2013 9:28 pm

The fact that it is part of the Christian Bible is simply the Christian interpretation of events and 'prophecies' in the OT.

Jesus preached the Torah and Oral Torah, a Law that has nothing to do with anyone but Hebrews, and Jesus was a Hebrew interpreting it as a Hebrew.

Do not confuse the religion of Jesus with the religion about Jesus.

by Guest Tue May 07, 2013 4:53 am

trevorw2539 wrote:
The fact that it is part of the Christian Bible is simply the Christian interpretation of events and 'prophecies' in the OT.

Y’shua Moshiach, Jesus the Christ, charged the apostles to “teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” Paul, an apostle of Jesus the Christ, charged by Jesus to so teach, by his words and example teaches Jesus’ disciples to study the Hebrew Bible. That fact is not “Christian interpretation”; that fact is truth, verified by Paul in his letters.

by Tosh Tue May 07, 2013 9:21 am

Y’shua Moshiach, Jesus the Christ, charged the apostles to “teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” Paul, an apostle of Jesus the Christ, charged by Jesus to so teach, by his words and example teaches Jesus’ disciples to study the Hebrew Bible. That fact is not “Christian interpretation”; that fact is truth, verified by Paul in his letters.

That fact is only truth if one believes that Jesus spoke to Paul after he was dead, once you have proven this to be true then the facts follow.

Good luck in your endeavors.

by trevorw2539 Tue May 07, 2013 11:06 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
trevorw2539 wrote:
The fact that it is part of the Christian Bible is simply the Christian interpretation of events and 'prophecies' in the OT.

Y’shua Moshiach, Jesus the Christ, charged the apostles to “teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” Paul, an apostle of Jesus the Christ, charged by Jesus to so teach, by his words and example teaches Jesus’ disciples to study the Hebrew Bible. That fact is not “Christian interpretation”; that fact is truth, verified by Paul in his letters.

And they were Jews, as was Jesus.
It is not until later that Peter is told that the Gospel is open to all. And the quote by Jesus 'other sheep have I which are not of this fold, them also I must bring .....' I know. We have no idea who Jesus means by this. The Samaritans, as indicated to the woman at the well? The lost tribes scattered throughout the 'world'? The gentiles?

It's interesting that Paul, a Pharisaical Jew, as you say, teaches the reading of the Hebrew Bible. It is also interesting that the writers to the Hebrews tell their readers that the ritual and ceremony of the Temple as described in the OT has no relevance for their lives now. It is finished, and they must press on in their new faith and not look back. That is Christian interpretation.
Whilst most modern Jews agree that Temple worship is 'finished' for all time, they would not agree with the Christian interpretation.

by trevorw2539 Tue May 07, 2013 11:33 am

Tosh wrote:
The fact that it is part of the Christian Bible is simply the Christian interpretation of events and 'prophecies' in the OT.

Jesus preached the Torah and Oral Torah, a Law that has nothing to do with anyone but Hebrews, and Jesus was a Hebrew interpreting it as a Hebrew.

Do not confuse the religion of Jesus with the religion about Jesus.

I am slightly confused about your last sentence.

The religion OF Jesus was the Hebrew religion. The religion ABOUT Jesus is Christianity. I thought I made that clear in my post. The OT was written for Hebrews, of whom Jesus was one.
The link between Judaism and Christianity is Jesus, and Christianity's interpretation of OT prophecies 'foretelling his coming'.

The fact that he came to the Jews is seen in Matt. 23 :32 (29-36) 'Fill ye up the measure of your fathers'. The blood of the slain prophets over the years has filled the measure nearly to overflowing. His death (blood) will foll the measure to overflowing.

Christianity 'interprets' the OT, and Islam 'interprets' both the OT and NT.

Crikey, I'm not getting into a study. Work to do.

by Guest Tue May 07, 2013 12:10 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:
The fact that it is part of the Christian Bible is simply the Christian interpretation of events and 'prophecies' in the OT.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Y’shua Moshiach, Jesus the Christ, charged the apostles to “teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” Paul, an apostle of Jesus the Christ, charged by Jesus to so teach, by his words and example teaches Jesus’ disciples to study the Hebrew Bible. That fact is not “Christian interpretation”; that fact is truth, verified by Paul in his letters.

trevorw2539 wrote:
And they were Jews, as was Jesus.

It is not until later that Peter is told that the Gospel is open to all. And the quote by Jesus 'other sheep have I which are not of this fold, them also I must bring .....' I know. We have no idea who Jesus means by this. The Samaritans, as indicated to the woman at the well? The lost tribes scattered throughout the 'world'? The gentiles?

It's interesting that Paul, a Pharisaical Jew, as you say, teaches the reading of the Hebrew Bible. It is also interesting that the writers to the Hebrews tell their readers that the ritual and ceremony of the Temple as described in the OT has no relevance for their lives now. It is finished, and they must press on in their new faith and not look back. That is Christian interpretation.

Whilst most modern Jews agree that Temple worship is 'finished' for all time, they would not agree with the Christian interpretation.

The time frame, to the best of my knowledge, is not precisely conveyed, but it seems that Peter’s call to go to Cornelius, a Gentile (it gets worse), a Roman (it gets “worser”), and a Centurion (how much “more worster” can it get?) came relatively early on.

I have a clear idea who Jesus means by the apostles’ words and acts. These men, the eleven directly, Matthias later in Jerusalem, and Paul later than that, were charged to “teach others to observe all things whatsoever that I [Y’shua, Jesus] have commanded you”, so the apostles’ teachings in word and act let me know that “other sheep” includes all non-Jewish persons in the world. Paul, in his first letter of instruction to Timothy, teaches that God would have all men (anthropos, gender inclusive) to be saved. I looked up all, because I wanted certain persons who have committed heinous crimes against my friends excluded, and there “ain’t no wiggle room” in the word chosen by Paul.

The interpretation, in the face of Paul’s teachings, is so widely taught that it makes me sick. If I decide to follow Jesus the Christ’s teachings, which is why those who did so diligently were called Christians, then I ought to follow Jesus’ teachings. Jesus teaches, “Think not that I have come to destroy the Law and the Prophets.” How much clearer can the man get?

When Christians cease listening to what we want to hear and start listening to what Jesus wants us to hear, things change. “Miss Lillian” Carter, James Earl Carter’s mother, heard some men (males) tell some men, women, and children that, because of the skin color, they couldn’t worship “here” but they could worship “over there” with the “colored folk”, she listened to Jesus, and the very next Sunday, Miss Lillian and her family, including the young James Earl Carter, worshipped “over there” with the “colored folk.” This was in rural South Georgia in the 1940s. Due in large part to Miss Lillian’s son’s efforts, Egyptians and Israelis haven’t shot across their border at one another for more than thirty years.

Modern Jews should not agree with the “Christian” interpretation. Christians should not agree with the “Christian” interpretation. Anyone possessed of fifth-grade reading comprehension who reads Jesus’ and his apostles’ teachings in the Greek Bible should not agree with the “Christian” interpretation.

by Tosh Tue May 07, 2013 12:56 pm

Modern Jews should not agree with the “Christian” interpretation. Christians should not agree with the “Christian” interpretation. Anyone possessed of fifth-grade reading comprehension who reads Jesus’ and his apostles’ teachings in the Greek Bible should not agree with the “Christian” interpretation.

For once we are in total agreement, now all you have to do is understand what the Jews actually meant by " God...YHWH...Elohim, and we can be brothers again.

by polyglide Tue May 07, 2013 2:18 pm

You say what you do Shirina because you are wrong and cannot accept the fact.

I have given you the web site to confirm you are wrong on every count regarding the state of the world and it's prospects.

Read and digest.

Or do you just believe those who agree with your distorted ideas.

by trevorw2539 Tue May 07, 2013 3:27 pm

“Think not that I have come to destroy the Law and the Prophets.” How much clearer can the man get?.

The Law - Torah
The Prophets - Oral Torah.

Halakhah - Jewish Law - a way of life.

The Law - Torah - had already been broken by the Babylonian destruction of the Temple, cessation (temporarily) of law-required sacrifices, and later (permanent) cessation by the Romans.
The family of Aaron had died out and the law of succession to the High Priesthood had no longer operated. The law relating to the succession of Kings for the non-existent theocratic state of Israel, and its judicial system etc had died out.

We lay much emphasis on the God given 10 'Commandments' and I have no problem with that as being beneficial spiritually. But then most of the Torah is filled with other God-given 'commandments' to do with Justice, Health, Property etc.

by Tosh Tue May 07, 2013 4:31 pm

Trevor,

It is meaningless to quote Christian attempts to link their faith to the faith of Jesus, the testimonies given fail all historical tests, the bottom line is the Jews reject any continuation, and its their faith.

It is impossible to say what Jesus preached, Christianity is a pagan religion based on dubious records and the visions of Paul.

by Shirina Tue May 07, 2013 4:35 pm

You say what you do Shirina because you are wrong and cannot accept the fact.

Nope. I say what I do because apocalyptic Christianity is rubbish.

I have given you the web site to confirm you are wrong on every count regarding the state of the world and it's prospects.

Sure, sure, just like Snowy and I have given you websites confirming evolution.

Or do you just believe those who agree with your distorted ideas.

I believe those who have some sort of grasp on reality.

by trevorw2539 Tue May 07, 2013 5:25 pm

Tosh wrote:Trevor,

It is meaningless to quote Christian attempts to link their faith to the faith of Jesus, the testimonies given fail all historical tests, the bottom line is the Jews reject any continuation, and its their faith.

It is impossible to say what Jesus preached, Christianity is a pagan religion based on dubious records and the visions of Paul.

I boobed. I was actually replying to the quote from ROC but forgot to highlight it.

I was actually pointing out that the 'Law and the Prophets' had already been been overtaken by time and events themselves.

by Tosh Tue May 07, 2013 7:53 pm

I believe those who have some sort of grasp on reality.

The reality is you cannot explain a butterfly so God exists, its called a self evident truth.

by oftenwrong Tue May 07, 2013 7:54 pm

But the simple act of wearing sandals can put you into DIRECT touch metaphysically, with the Nazarenes. Try it.

by Tosh Tue May 07, 2013 8:04 pm

But the simple act of wearing sandals can put you into DIRECT touch metaphysically, with the Nazarenes. Try it.

I wear odour eaters in my sandals, its called hardcore atheism.

by trevorw2539 Tue May 07, 2013 8:18 pm

Tosh wrote:
But the simple act of wearing sandals can put you into DIRECT touch metaphysically, with the Nazarenes. Try it.

I wear odour eaters in my sandals, its called hardcore atheism.

Thought hardcore atheism was practised by highways department. Filling potholes with no faith in the repair ever being effective.

by Guest Wed May 08, 2013 3:33 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
Jesus teaches, “Think not that I have come to destroy the Law and the Prophets.” How much clearer can the man get?

trevorw2539 wrote:
The Law - Torah
The Prophets - Oral Torah.

Halakhah - Jewish Law - a way of life.

The Law - Torah - had already been broken by the Babylonian destruction of the Temple, cessation (temporarily) of law-required sacrifices, and later (permanent) cessation by the Romans.
The family of Aaron had died out and the law of succession to the High Priesthood had no longer operated. The law relating to the succession of Kings for the non-existent theocratic state of Israel, and its judicial system etc had died out.

We lay much emphasis on the God given 10 'Commandments' and I have no problem with that as being beneficial spiritually. But then most of the Torah is filled with other God-given 'commandments' to do with Justice, Health, Property etc.

The Law, the Prophets, and the Writings:

Torah
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Torah (/ˈtɔːrə/; Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, "Instruction", "Teaching") is a central concept in the Jewish tradition. It has a range of meanings: it can most specifically mean the first five books of the Tanakh…

In its most specific meaning, it consists of the first five books of the Tanakh written in Biblical Hebrew. The names of each of these books in Hebrew are taken from the first phrase in each book: Bereshit ("In [the] beginning", Genesis), Shemot ("Names", Exodus), Vayikra ("He called", Leviticus^[1]), Bamidbar ("In the desert", Numbers) and Devarim ("Words", Deuteronomy).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

Nevi'im
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nevi'im (Hebrew: נְבִיאִים Nəḇî'îm‎, "Prophets") is the second main division of the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh), between the Torah (instruction) and Ketuvim (writings). It contains two sub-groups, the Former Prophets (Nevi'im Rishonim נביאים ראשונים, the narrative books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings) and the Latter Prophets (Nevi'im Aharonim נביאים אחרונים, the books of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel and the Twelve Minor Prophets).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevi%27im

Ketuvim
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ketuvim or Kəṯûḇîm (in Biblical Hebrew: כְּתוּבִים "writings") is the third and final section of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), after Torah (instruction) and Nevi'im (prophets). In English translations of the Hebrew Bible, this section is usually entitled "Writings" or "Hagiographa".^[1]

The Ketuvim are believed to have been written under the Ruach HaKodesh, but with one level less authority than that of prophecy.[2]

Found among the Writings within the Hebrew scriptures, I and II Chronicles form one book, along with Ezra and Nehemiah which form a single unit entitled "Ezra-Nehemiah".[3] (In citations by chapter and verse numbers, however, the Hebrew equivalents of "Nehemiah", "I Chronicles" and "II Chronicles" are used, as the system of chapter division was imported from Christian usage.) Collectively, eleven books are included in the Ketuvim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketuvim

by trevorw2539 Wed May 08, 2013 10:17 am

Many of the mitzvot (COMMANDMENTS) cannot be observed now, following the destruction of the Second Temple, although they still retain religious significance. According to one standard reckoning,[3] there are 77 positive and 194 negative commandments that can be observed today, of which there are 26 commands that apply only within the Land of Israel.[4] Furthermore, there are some time-related commandments from which women are exempt (examples include shofar, sukkah, lulav, tzitzit and tefillin).[5] Some depend on the special status of a person in Judaism (such as kohanim), while others apply only to men and others only to women.

wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

For each mitzvah, I have provided a citation to the biblical passage or passages from which it is derived, based primarily on Rambam. For commandments that can be observed today, I have also provided citations to the Chafetz Chayim's Concise Book of Mitzvot (CCA refers to affirmative commandments; CCN refers to negative commandments; CCI refers to commandments that only apply in Israel). Commandments that cannot be observed today primarily relate to the Temple, its sacrifices and services (because the Temple does not exist) and criminal procedures (because the theocratic state of Israel does not exist).

http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

by Tosh Wed May 08, 2013 10:28 am

Trevor,

Do me a favor and tel me in simple terms what you and Texas are disputing with each other, I hate theology.

by oftenwrong Wed May 08, 2013 12:28 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22173372

by Guest Wed May 08, 2013 1:28 pm

Y’shua bar Yosef, Y’shua Moshiach, Jesus the Christ, refers to Torah in its most specific meaning…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

… as he says…

Greek Bible

“Think not that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say unto you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is fulfilled.”

Matthew 5:17-18

On many occasions, Jesus demonstrates the Law and the Prophets fulfilled as he knowingly violates various mitzvot. It is clear to me that Jesus frees me from mitzvot as I willingly bind myself to the Law and the Prophets fulfilled, and I conduct my life accordingly, doing so of my own free will, and thus affirming Jesus’ promise…

Greek Bible

Then said Jesus to those Jews who had believed him, “If you continue in my word, then you are truly my disciples, and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”

John 8:31-32

The Law and the Prophets fulfilled:

Greek Bible

“Therefore, in all things whatsoever, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.”

Matthew 7:12

Greek Bible

Then one of them, that was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”

And Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Matthew 22:35-40

by Tosh Wed May 08, 2013 1:54 pm

On many occasions, Jesus demonstrates the Law and the Prophets fulfilled as he knowingly violates various mitzvot. It is clear to me that Jesus frees me from mitzvoth as I willingly bind myself to the Law and the Prophets fulfilled, and I conduct my life accordingly, doing so of my own free will, and thus affirming Jesus’ promise…

Texas, are you one of these Jews for Jesus types ?

by trevorw2539 Wed May 08, 2013 9:30 pm

Tosh wrote:Trevor,

Do me a favor and tel me in simple terms what you and Texas are disputing with each other, I hate theology.

Sorry. Just seen this. Will reply ASAP. Got to Skype my son at Uni.

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