Does any religion matter at all today?

by Stox 16 Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:35 am

First topic message reminder :

I will be interested to read peoples thoughts on this question. Does any Religion matter at all today?

I cannot see that any religious church's or anything religious even matters today at all. The only true religion I have ever come across is, Money, Political Power, Land, and greed. all the things we are told they are against, this goes for all religions too in my view.

in fact all the faiths I have come across use all of the tools of money, political power, Land and greed to re-force there religious views on there followers. i have never come across any religion that does not use at least one of this tools to enforce there religious views on the people they are said to be looking after.

I have read over the years all the religious books i can find, and have yet too be moved by any of them. some have very good stories that have something in them for every reader. but their it ends for me. maybe someone can explain why any of this is so important today? as i cannot find anything within the books that states this is very important today or in the past. I myself have come to believe that religion has more to do with the thought of death or dying and the human need to believe that life goes on after death.

However, when we was all born we did not feel pain or come into being with some religious thought in our heads or a book in our hands did we? in fact we had know idea about religion at all? so only find out what religion we are when someone tells us that this is our religion? yet you would think we would all know this already if there was a god? So we only find out what our religion is after birth? or do you believe you know what you religion was before birth? (i did not) if someone told me i was a follower of Islam, I would of said OK at five years old. in fact they could of given me any religion and i would of said fine.

So religion seems to me, religion only matters a get deal more the older you get? so I am told, well if so its failing on me badly. so anyway, it matter more as you get closer to death then? so is this more to do with our human need for life to go on somehow? as we find it hard to believe that life comes to an end and we go into darkness of no mans land? just like before we was born?

I was told at about 6 years old by my mother that this was my faith. but in total truth my mother could of said any faith was my religion and i would of gone along with what she said. To me that was it, Its that simple then. i did not then think about anything religious till i was in the Army in standing in a street in the middle of green line in a war zone in the Lebanon. with both Christains killing, Muslims Killing, Catholic Maronite's Killing, Druze faith Killing, Jewish killing. at first wondering why they was all doing this? not for religion or faith but power and using religion to justify there actions. I remember thinking. just suppose these people had been given a different religion by there mothers. they would instead of killing as a Maronite gunman they would of been killing Maronite's as a Druze gunman?

So your religion is picked for you in my view and some even change it too. yet you would think if you know your god at your death. you should know who you god is before birth? but we do not. So does any of this really matter any more?

well i well be interrested to read your thought on this. its not about any one religion but all of them.

by trevorw2539 Wed May 08, 2013 9:30 pm

Tosh wrote:Trevor,

Do me a favor and tel me in simple terms what you and Texas are disputing with each other, I hate theology.

Sorry. Just seen this. Will reply ASAP. Got to Skype my son at Uni.

by snowyflake Fri May 10, 2013 7:43 pm

But the simple act of wearing sandals can put you into DIRECT touch metaphysically, with the Nazarenes. Try it.

I don't understand you sometimes, OW. Do you smoke things?

by Tosh Sat May 11, 2013 12:15 pm

I don't understand you sometimes, OW. Do you smoke things?

He is providing an equivalent example of a logical fallacy, polyglide lives and breathes them, the origin of life hasn't been proven leads to the conclusion that Yahweh MUST have spoke to Moses through a burning bush.

In a nutshell everything we do know is evidence for God's existence and everything we do not know is evidence of God's existence.

Cute eh ?

by snowyflake Sat May 11, 2013 1:28 pm

Cute eh ?

Circular, irrational and mental gymnastics of Olympic proportions. Smile

Why don't believers consider their belief is a form of mental illness? If I told you that I believed that magical fairies lived in my garden and I put food out for them and every night they took it, you would tie me up and haul me to the nearest looney bin. Yet, billions of people can gather and pray to invisible imaginary beings and everyone thinks this is perfectly normal!!

by Tosh Sat May 11, 2013 2:03 pm

Snowy,

Contemporary Christians accept their belief in a design, a creator, a purpose and a resurrected Jesus is all based on faith, they do not need to indulge in mental somersaults, evidence denial or semantic evasion.

If 2 billion Christians were like the Anglicans/ COE then I wouldn't say a word against them.

by polyglide Mon May 13, 2013 3:18 pm

God is not an imaginary being, he is self evident to all those who seek the truth and it is the lack of understanding and the self importance that people put on themselves that cloud their vision.

by Shirina Mon May 13, 2013 4:42 pm

God is not an imaginary being, he is self evident to all those who seek the truth

Those who seek truth usually end up as atheists or, at the very least, agnostics. Those who go looking for God will always find God since this is the very epitome of confirmation bias.

it is the lack of understanding and the self importance that people put on themselves that cloud their vision.

I think self-importance is most aptly shown in having a belief that an all-powerful, universe-creating God is taking a special interest in your life, a belief that this God actually cares about all the petty little things that humans do. What foods we eat, who we have sex with, how we style our hair, what clothes we put on, and all the other minutiae of human existence. What a small God he must be to care about such things. Does he care about our soul? No ... he only cares about being worshiped and our souls are held hostage in order to gain that worship. How despicable.

by Guest Mon May 13, 2013 5:50 pm

Shirina wrote:
Those who seek truth usually end up as atheists or, at the very least, agnostics.

I seek truth; I have sought truth from fourteen years of age until now, a period of time most likely greater than your lifespan. I started as a Christian, intentionally blank-slated, progressed through being a self-identified agnostic, a knower of my Creator, a Baha’i, to being now a sometimes Christian. I have never been an atheist in my life, as atheism, belief in and adamant propagation of the implausible, illogical notion that pervasive design of the universe is not the result of the universe being designed, is far too implausible and illogical a belief to be believed.

Shirina wrote:
I think self-importance is most aptly shown in having a belief that an all-powerful, universe-creating God is taking a special interest in your life, a belief that this God actually cares about all the petty little things that humans do.

In the words of Robert Nesta Marley, “Could you be loved?”

Your Creator deems you worthy of your Creator’s care as he creates you in his image. Your challenge and my challenge, OUR CHALLENGE, is to humble ourselves and receive his love, as he forces his love and care on no human.

In the words of Robert Nesta Marley, “Could you be loved?”

Shirina wrote:
Does he care about our soul?

YHVH Elohim, eternally existent, immeasurable, incomprehensible causative power by which all that is, was, and will be exists, Creator of the universe and all ha adama, including you and me, care about all humans’ souls, including your soul and my soul.

Greek Bible:

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who will have all¹ men² to be saved and to come unto the knowledge³ of the truth⁴. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men,² the man² Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all¹…”

1 Timothy 2:3-6

πᾶς, pas, all, every, the whole, everyone.
ἄνθρωπος, anthrōpos, a human being, man.
ἐπίγνωσις, epignōsis (from ἐπί, epi, an intensifier, and γνῶσις, gnōsis, knowledge), clear and exact knowledge, thorough participation in the object of the knowledge.
ἀλήθεια, alētheia, true, truly, truth, verity.

by Tosh Mon May 13, 2013 7:40 pm

YHVH Elohim, eternally existent, immeasurable, incomprehensible causative power by which all that is, was, and will be exists, Creator of the universe and all ha adama, including you and me, care about all humans’ souls, including your soul and my soul.

Texas,

If Elohim is incomprehensible, how do you comprehend he cares about all human souls, don't tell me, the bits you do comprehend depend on the Bible being true, back to the same old chestnut, the Bible is true because you want it to be true.

by snowyflake Mon May 13, 2013 8:22 pm

God is not an imaginary being, he is self evident to all those who seek the truth and it is the lack of understanding and the self importance that people put on themselves that cloud their vision

God is imaginary in the same way that Zeus is imaginary. At one time, Zeus was as believed as the Hebrew God is now. Humans invented gods to worship because they answered the unanswerable questions. They explained nature.

I seek truth but I did not find it in delusional belief. It is based on false hope and fear of death.

We all die. Get over it. It's not dying you have to worry about, it's not living that's the greatest sin. Or worse, wasting your time scoring points for the next life.

by Guest Mon May 13, 2013 9:09 pm

snowyflake wrote:
God is imaginary in the same way that Zeus is imaginary.

YHVH Elohim, by definition, is eternally existent, immeasurable, incomprehensible causative power by which all that is, was, and will be exists. Zeus is imaginary myth, and is taught as such in US public schools.

snowyflake wrote:
I seek truth but I did not find it in delusional belief.

I seek truth; I have sought truth since the age of fourteen. I have never found truth in a “delusional belief.”

snowyflake wrote:
We all die.

True.

snowyflake wrote:
Get over it.

Get over what?

snowyflake wrote:
It's not dying you have to worry about…

I don’t.

snowyflake wrote:
Or worse, wasting your time scoring points for the next life.

I don’t.

by snowyflake Mon May 13, 2013 9:12 pm

I seek truth; I have sought truth since the age of fourteen. I have never found truth in a “delusional belief.”

You wouldn't know.

by Guest Tue May 14, 2013 1:27 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
I seek truth; I have sought truth since the age of fourteen. I have never found truth in a “delusional belief.”

snowyflake wrote:
You wouldn't know.

I would know, I have known since fourteen years of age, and I know right now.

by snowyflake Tue May 14, 2013 5:51 am

I would know, I have known since fourteen years of age, and I know right now.

A delusional person would say that.

by Guest Tue May 14, 2013 11:18 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
I seek truth; I have sought truth since the age of fourteen. I have never found truth in a “delusional belief.”

A person who seeks truth and has sought truth since the age of fourteen would say that.

RockOnBrother wrote:
I would know, I have known since fourteen years of age, and I know right now.

snowyflake wrote:
I would know, I have known since fourteen years of age, and I know right now.
A delusional person would say that.

A person who refuses to hear another person would say that.

by Tosh Tue May 14, 2013 1:36 pm

Texas,

Zeus is taught in schools as a myth, but macro-evolution is not, care to explain ?

by polyglide Tue May 14, 2013 2:32 pm

I doubt very much if either Snowyflake or Shirina have the experiences and bases on which to consider anything other than a distinct objection to anything that resembles truth.

Anyone can dispute the existance of God but not explain how many others are adamant and convinced not only by the Bible but by their actual experiences that indeed God does exist.

One who has done so and sought the truth cannot be missled by those whose only answers are child like.

How can anyone not having sought the truth pontificate on something they obviously do not understand?.

by snowyflake Tue May 14, 2013 7:52 pm

Anyone can dispute the existance of God but not explain how many others are adamant and convinced not only by the Bible but by their actual experiences that indeed God does exist.

I actually don't give a rat's patootie what you believe. My objection comes from you and other believers insisting, without evidence or proof, that what you believe is real or true! It is ONLY real and true to the believer. It is in your head and trying to convert others by your spurious methods actually infuriates those of us who like a smattering of evidence with the outrageous claims made by believers.

If you want to believe in God, Satan, angels, devils, demons, spirits, ghosts, leprachauns, sprites, fairies, Zeus and Thor, please go nuts. Just don't tell me that what you believe is true. Your belief is only true to you and is only true because you want to believe any flimsy notion that supports your wish for eternal life. There is no other reason for a person to believe in God. And anyone who says different is lying.

by snowyflake Tue May 14, 2013 7:56 pm

I doubt very much if either Snowyflake or Shirina have the experiences and bases on which to consider anything other than a distinct objection to anything that resembles truth.

You don't know us and you have no basis for making such an assumption.

by snowyflake Tue May 14, 2013 7:57 pm

A person who refuses to hear another person would say that.

Ditto

by Shirina Tue May 14, 2013 8:38 pm

I doubt very much if either Snowyflake or Shirina have the experiences and bases on which to consider anything other than a distinct objection to anything that resembles truth.

I've said it a thousand times. This is precisely why religion is so damned dangerous. Religion is not subjective in the way musical, artistic, culinary, or literary tastes are to a person. Oh, no ... religion is THE TRUTH, by golly, and "if it's true for me, it's true for every man, woman, and child on the planet whether they accept it or not!" This is the justification they use to push their religion, to make it law, to push the boundaries of freedom in exchange for a de facto fascist theocracy (what other kind of theocracy is there?).

And why is it true? Because you had some sort of "experience." Well, if God simply walks up to you and introduces himself, there's not much room left for faith, now, is there? We atheists are constantly harping on the question of why God doesn't just reveal himself, and what are we told? Yeah, that's right - faith, faith, faith, and more faith. Gotta have faith.

Yet SOME people seem to have these "experiences" where faith is taken out of the equation altogether. God somehow reveals himself to certain, select people as if belief is an exclusive Hollywood party. To believe that YOU were gifted with some sort of mystical, God-shaped epiphany when so many others have not, well ... I really don't want to hear another word about how atheists are full of pride and arrogance. I suppose faith is for the peons, but the Chosen Ones get to have their "experiences."

It's all rubbish.

but not explain how many others are adamant and convinced not only by the Bible but by their actual experiences that indeed God does exist.

Only 1/3rd of the global population is convinced that the Bible is true or that YOUR God exists. The vast majority of them live in the West. That leaves 2/3rds of the population who think you're full of nonsense.

How can anyone not having sought the truth pontificate on something they obviously do not understand?

Funny, I was just going to ask you the same question ...

by oftenwrong Tue May 14, 2013 10:51 pm

Why isn't Sun Worship more prevalent?

Life on Earth would rapidly become extinct if that particular God were ever to stop rising faithfully every day.

by Tosh Wed May 15, 2013 8:28 am

The sun does not offer eternal life, there lies the rub.

by oftenwrong Wed May 15, 2013 10:22 am

"History readily records that Constantine was a sun-worshiper. In one decree he declared, "On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed" (March 7, 321). He made this decree in honor of the sun after his supposed conversion to Christianity! Constantine, even after his "conversion," remained a pagan.

Constantine sought to unite his kingdom’s pagan and Christian worshipers, in order to promote stability and ensure that his empire lasted. The easiest way to bring harmony would be to blend sun worship and Christianity. History shows that the Church of Rome did not object; indeed, it had been engaging in the practice for nearly two centuries!"

The bishop of Rome had let the church go down the path of apostasy so by the time of Constantine, it was already corrupted in the old pagan Baal sun worship.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3140372

The Christian calendar was a reform in 1582 to the Julian calendar. The motivation for the reform was to bring the date for the celebration of Easter to the time of the year in which the First Council of Nicaea had agreed upon in 325. Because the spring equinox was tied to the celebration of Easter, the Roman Catholic Church considered this steady drift in the date of Easter undesirable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_calendar

by Shirina Wed May 15, 2013 5:43 pm

I have never been an atheist in my life, as atheism, belief in and adamant propagation of the implausible, illogical notion that pervasive design of the universe is not the result of the universe being designed, is far too implausible and illogical a belief to be believed.

This is an example of that strange dichotomy many people have. No other aspect of our lives is blamed or credited with being caused by magic or supernatural forces. Yeah, sometimes when I practically rip the whole house down because of mysterious cord tangles that seem to defy physics, I've joked about Tangle Fairies coming in the night to tie cords into knots - but it's only a joke. We simply do not ascribe anything to magical forces no matter how bizarre the event is. Yes, it is true that some of the stupidly religious will credit God with even the most mundane things such as the woman who praised God because she broke down, called a tow truck, and a tow truck came. I can only assume the properties of "cause and effect" completely escape her. Those of us with our heads screwed on straight do not believe God is busily casting incantations to make things in our life happen.

Therefore, giving the origin of the universe a special dispensation by allowing "magic" to be considered as a legitimate explanation defies how we normally perceive the world. Not one thing in the universe can be shown to have been "created" by Godly magic.

Your Creator deems you worthy of your Creator’s care as he creates you in his image. Your challenge and my challenge, OUR CHALLENGE, is to humble ourselves and receive his love, as he forces his love and care on no human.

My mother's love is unconditional. She has never threatened me with eternal damnation and torture. While God may not force his love onto people, he uses threats and coersion to influence our decision. God is a tyrant and a dictator, one we can never be free from, not even in death. He is the worst kind of abuser as his desire for a master-slave relationship is virtually identical to that of an abusive husband and battered wife. The Christian doctrine teaches that we are all born into sin, that we are despicable and worthless, and only God can change that. Our worth as human beings is derived not from inherent value, but from the fact that God loves us, and ONLY that. This is precisely how abusive people operate: By convincing the abused that they have no value outside of the abuser's sphere of influence. The threats of eternal hellfire if we do not do as we are told - like not having dinner on the table at 6pm sharp - mimics the threats of a beating from an abusive husband.

Humbling myself isn't the problem. The problem is to whom I would have to bend my knees. A tyrant is a tyrant is a tyrant, Rock, regardless of how powerful or divine.

by Guest Wed May 15, 2013 9:30 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
I seek truth; I have sought truth from fourteen years of age until now, a period of time most likely greater than your lifespan. I started as a Christian, intentionally blank-slated, progressed through being a self-identified agnostic, a knower of my Creator, a Baha’i, to being now a sometimes Christian. I have never been an atheist in my life, as atheism, belief in and adamant propagation of the implausible, illogical notion that pervasive design of the universe is not the result of the universe being designed, is far too implausible and illogical a belief to be believed.

https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p750-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40449

Shirina wrote:
I have never been an atheist in my life, as atheism, belief in and adamant propagation of the implausible, illogical notion that pervasive design of the universe is not the result of the universe being designed, is far too implausible and illogical a belief to be believed.
This is an example of that strange dichotomy…

This is an example of personal truth, stated clearly and concisely.

by snowyflake Wed May 15, 2013 9:43 pm

This is an example of personal truth

Personal truth. No one else's. It's not absolute or universal truth. Your own private, personal belief system bolstered by your own thoughts.

Doesn't make it truth to anyone else though.

by Guest Wed May 15, 2013 10:08 pm

snowyflake wrote:
Doesn't make it truth to anyone else though.

Personal truth is truth.

by snowyflake Thu May 16, 2013 5:56 am

Personal truth is truth.

No it isn't. Personal truth is personal truth. It doesn't apply to others. It applies only to the person (hence the term personal). If it applied to everyone it would be a universal truth and the existence of god is not a universal truth. It is a personal belief only.

Which is perfectly fine if believers just accepted that it is only based on their own personal experiences and the relevance, importance and significance it makes to their own life.

Personal truth is not universal or absolute truth.

by Guest Thu May 16, 2013 6:01 am

snowyflake wrote:
No it isn't.

Truth: Personal truth is truth.

by Guest Thu May 16, 2013 6:06 am

snowyflake wrote:
Your own private, personal belief system bolstered by your own thoughts.

RockOnBrother, Thursday 2 May 2013, 22:59
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p540-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#39905

As the study of physics continued, I slowly realized design on a macro scale. Just the fact that phenomena like all of the mind-bending aspects of Special and General Relativity can be precisely described mathematically pretty much blew me away. One day, maybe two years into college, somewhere around twenty years of age, these self-revelations caused me to admit that the universe I studied is designed. Shortly after that, the sure knowledge that I was permeated, inundated, and surrounded by design caused me to admit that the designed universe is caused by a designer.

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): “There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming”.⁽⁴⁾

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): “The laws [of physics]… seem to be the product of exceedingly ingenious design… The universe must have a purpose”.⁽⁵⁾

http://www.theoriginproject.co.uk/experts.htm

by Shirina Thu May 16, 2013 9:23 am

Truth: Personal truth is truth.

So we should assume that the guy in Bellvue who thinks he's Napoleon ... really IS Napoleon?

by Shirina Thu May 16, 2013 9:30 am

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): “There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming”.(4)

I find it rather ... interesting ... that the universe had to be so finely tuned to begin with, especially in regards to human life. Was it all necessary? Well ... no, not really. Not when we're talking about an all-powerful, universe-creating God that supposedly makes all the rules. It is absurd in the extreme to assume that God had to pull all of those levers and tweak all of those dials to get the universe "just so" for human life. It would appear that God had to circumvent physical laws that even he could not directly alter, so he had to resort to little tricks to ensure humanity's survival. That sounds more like science than the supernatural. It kinda-sorta makes one wonder just WHAT this supposed creator actually is.

by Tosh Thu May 16, 2013 1:04 pm

Truth: Personal truth is truth.

Its as if the enlightenment never happened, a mind trapped in subjective knowledge, its about as far away from scholarly as a mind can be.

by Guest Thu May 16, 2013 3:29 pm

Shirina wrote:
Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): “There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming”.(4)
I find it rather ... interesting ... that the universe had to be so finely tuned to begin with…

British astrophysicist Paul Davies also finds it interesting, as evidenced by his statement that, for him, there is “powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all”, his statement that “somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe”, his statement that the “impression of design is overwhelming”, and his statement that the “laws [of physics]… seem to be the product of exceedingly ingenious design.”
http://www.theoriginproject.co.uk/experts.htm

I find it interesting that Paul Davies, with his expertise in the study of the origin of everything, finds it interesting.
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Paul Davies
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Paul Charles William Davies, AM (born 22 April 1946) is an English physicist, writer and broadcaster, currently a professor at Arizona State University as well as the Director of BEYOND: Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science. He is also currently affiliated with the Institute for Quantum Studies at Chapman University in California. He has held previous academic appointments at the University of Cambridge, University College London, University of Newcastle upon Tyne, University of Adelaide and Macquarie University. His research interests are in the fields of cosmology, quantum field theory, and astrobiology. He has proposed that a one-way trip to Mars could be a viable option.

In 2005, he took up the chair of the SETI: Post-Detection Science and Technology Taskgroup of the International Academy of Astronautics. He is also an adviser to the Microbes Mind Forum.

Davies' inquiries have included theoretical physics, cosmology, and astrobiology; his research has been mainly in the area of quantum field theory in curved spacetime. His notable contributions are the so-called Fulling–Davies–Unruh effect, according to which an observer accelerating through empty space will perceive a bath of thermal radiation, and the Bunch–Davies vacuum state, often used as the basis for explaining the fluctuations in the cosmic background radiation left over from the big bang. A paper co-authored with Stephen Fulling and William Unruh was the first to suggest that black holes evaporating via the Hawking effect lose mass as a result of a flux of negative energy streaming into the hole from the surrounding space. Davies has had a longstanding association with the problem of time’s arrow…

Born - Paul Charles William Davies, 22 April 1946 (age 67), London, UK

Nationality – British

Fields - Physicist

Institutions - Arizona State University, University of Cambridge, University of Adelaide, Macquarie University, University of Newcastle

Alma mater - University College London

Thesis - Contributions to theoretical physics: (i) Radiation damping in the optical continuum; (ii) A quantum theory of Wheeler-Feynman electrodynamics
http://www.theses.com/
(1970

Known for - Fulling-Davies-Unruh effect, Bunch–Davies vacuum state

Notable awards - Kelvin Medal (2001), Faraday Prize (2002), Templeton Prize (1995)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Davies

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Terms of Use (Wikipedia), effective May 25, 2012

You are free to:

● Read and Print our articles and other media free of charge.
● Share and Reuse our articles and other media under free and open licenses.

Terms of Use, full legal text: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use_(2012)/en#Our_Terms_of_Use

RockOnBrother, Thursday 2 May 2013, 22:59
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575p540-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god#39905

As the study of physics continued, I slowly realized design on a macro scale. Just the fact that phenomena like all of the mind-bending aspects of Special and General Relativity can be precisely described mathematically pretty much blew me away. One day, maybe two years into college, somewhere around twenty years of age, these self-revelations caused me to admit that the universe I studied is designed. Shortly after that, the sure knowledge that I was permeated, inundated, and surrounded by design caused me to admit that the designed universe is caused by a designer.

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): “There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming”.⁽⁴⁾

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): “The laws [of physics]… seem to be the product of exceedingly ingenious design… The universe must have a purpose”.⁽⁵⁾

http://www.theoriginproject.co.uk/experts.htm

Personal truth: As my armchair onscreen (television and Internet) study of physics continues, I often find myself in agreement with British astrophysicist Paul Davies.

Personal truth is truth.

by Tosh Thu May 16, 2013 5:04 pm

Paul Davies: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jun/26/spaceexploration.comment

Thus, three centuries after Newton, symmetry is restored: the laws explain the universe even as the universe explains the laws. If there is an ultimate meaning to existence, as I believe is the case, the answer is to be found within nature, not beyond it. The universe might indeed be a fix, but if so, it has fixed itself.

· Paul Davies is director of Beyond, a research centre at Arizona State University, and author of The Goldilocks Enigma paul.davies@asu.edu

Just simply dishonest quote mining, a standard tactic of the ID movement, vermin.

by Guest Thu May 16, 2013 5:16 pm

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): “There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming”.⁽⁴⁾

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): “The laws [of physics]… seem to be the product of exceedingly ingenious design… The universe must have a purpose”.⁽⁵⁾

http://www.theoriginproject.co.uk/experts.htm

by Tosh Thu May 16, 2013 5:28 pm

The universe might indeed be a fix, but if so, it has fixed itself.

Checkmate.

by Tosh Thu May 16, 2013 5:51 pm

Texas gives us mined quotes from ID websites without links to Paul Davies original words and I give you words straight from the horses mouth.

Just intellectual fraud.

by Tosh Thu May 16, 2013 5:56 pm

The slippery slope fallacy, try and spot the weak link:

The universe appears designed = Designer spoke to Moses through a burning bush.

You people need sectioned under the mental health act.

by snowyflake Thu May 16, 2013 7:19 pm

Truth: Personal truth is truth.

It is personal truth based on personal experience only. No one else's. That's the most one can say about it. The evidence for that is that a believers personal truth is not truth to me and I daresay billions of others.

truth
[trooth] Show IPA
noun, plural truths [troothz, trooths] Show IPA .
1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
4. the state or character of being true.
5. actuality or actual existence.

The existence of God is none of these things except to believers. Therefore it is personal truth and does not extend beyond the person.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/truth

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