Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

First topic message reminder :

My personal opinion is that the current spate of tory reforms to the benefit system are cruel, regressive, and worst of all won't save money (the alleged intention).



In a supposedly modern civilised country one would think housing would be considered a human right.......rather than simply an investment / a chance to make a fast buck.

I note there is talk of a yacht for the biggest benefit claimee of them all. I note over £10billion has been spent on the olympics. I note £32billion is being spent on a high speed rail link (london-birmingham) - this will shave, a no doubt absolutely vita,l 32mins off the journey (essential??!!!) and be used by a miniscule % of the UK population.

How about investing this money in affordable social housing instead? Or do government no longer care to invest in those they view as peasants and serfs?

The tories efforts to turn the nation against those unfortunate enough to find themselves unemployed via vile smears, and an insidious propaganda campaign, are reminiscent of Nazi germany's propaganda campaign against the jews.

Iain Duncan Smith is a disgusting human being and has blood on his hands.

Instead of kicking the weakest targets that can't defend themselves....maybe the Bullingdon bullies should try picking on somebody their own size.....like the bankers, or benefit leeching corporations like Tescos.

They currently resemble a 20st thug stamping on a little girls head.

Welfare is essential and if we are to remain a civilised country we owe it to ourselves to provide for those less fortunate; unless we want to see people starving and homeless turning into savages.

The biggest burden on the UK in recent times has not been the unemployed.....welfare is not a burden - it is an essential expense in a civilised nation.

The biggest burden, and the cause of much unemployment, has been the rich greedy bankers who have cost this country, and us taxpayers, untold £billions in order to benefit a few. They have placed the real burden on the UK.

Let them eat cake!

It's enshrined in Tory doctrine. Survival of the fittest.

Shouldn't that be 'Survival of the Richest'?

Skywalker
Thanks for doing the sums

(brought forward from the locked thread)

Tosh quote: our govenment will pay to house you in rented accomadation or a B&B

Tosh, do you imagine that statement would apply to a lone male claimant?

Those of us who were members of the MSN political forum were rather shocked as to why MSN closed the forum without explanation. Today I believe my suspicions that the editor of MSN was and is pro Tory and closed the forum because of it's left wing content which might have damaged Camerons election chances in 2010.

At 8am this morning I was confronted on my MSN screen by a rather surly nasty looking picture of dear Gideon Osborne, with an article headed--

"Chancellor George Osborne is to announce the Government will slash an extra 10 billion pounds from the welfare budget by 2016-17"
Within seconds of seeing this evil looking bastard, the photo was changed to a smiling cheshire cat. Someone who produced the first photo must have had their knuckles wrapped no doubt.

Note the propsed"mansion tax" has been scrapped, surprise surprise

Mel said: "Note the propsed"mansion tax" has been scrapped, surprise surprise"

Hello Mel Mate. The thing is, where does that leave the Coalition, as the so called Mansion tax, was one of the Lib-Dems big policies. Now that Herr Cameron has said NO, will the Lib-Dem whimps still (after all the kicks in the teeth they have had from Herr Cameron) continue to suport this evil Tory Party proving beyond any shadow of a doubt, just what a spineless bunch of arseholes they really are.

Heloo bobby boy, yes the "arseholes" will undoutably continue to support the Tory tyrants, perhaps until someone shoots the yellow turned blue Cleggy git.

The ritual thrashing of the Poor by an invading horde of power-starved Tories should not have come as a surprise to us. They had thirteen years of inactivity during which to lick their wounds and plan revenge on the insolent proletariate who voted-in New Labour in 1997.

It's likely that a large section of the Conservative Party thought they might have been a bit hasty in bundling out Mad Maggie before she'd finished what she'd started. Their surprise at forming a Quisling goverment in 2010 was diluted by a realisation that One Term was the likely prospect.

In the time available, every nasty little turn of the screw contained wihin the Tory psyche will find its way into their Parliamentary programme.

The only benefit of the tories being in government is that new generations are seeing what a nasty bunch they are - hopefully that might consign them to the political wilderness for a considerable period of time.

20yrs, or more, without them sounds like a reasonable prospect.

Spot on OW.

Agree 100% chip.

I 100% agree too OW & SC! Bunch of nasty, self serving, arrogant bullies is all they'll ever be! They make me wanna puke!

Looking on the bright side, there can't be many people, apart from those whose income exceeds £150,000, who haven't been damaged by Tory policy.

They won't ALL have forgotten by Polling Day.

I hope not! I really do!

20 years without the Tories is all well and good, and I will do my utmost to assist in that happening. The only thing is, their evil policies and privatisations, will still be with us long after they have been consigned to the cess pit..

If you have an objection to current Government policy, why not write to your Member of Parliament at The House of Commons?

They nearly always answer letters from constituents.

Its interesting that many of you seem to find conservative policies carried by Labour more palatable than the Tories taking the same or similar line.

Some day people will realise that what all politicians and political parties really want is is power and they will say almost anything to get it. If you really think that any of them really care about you and me, then you're living in a fantasy world

So your suggested alternative is ............

Labour gave us as a family a little bit of tax credit and that little bit along with the minimum wage helped us to keep our heads just above water, instead of treading it. My ex husband had health problems and in the end needed a valve replacement. We saw how much the NHS improved under labour and how much waiting times came down. I saw my son's school finally get the badly needed repairs done, that under the tories had been left to crumble. People go off their own experiences I suppose. Now under the tories I always felt scared and broke and sneered upon. They gave us no peg up, they just clobbered us and sold everything off and forced the prices up. To me they are nasty, the nasty and cruel party. Labour have done things that I haven't liked, but this lot have no grasp of what some people have to endure on a daily basis, and i always felt that the labour party did understand these things more. And their arrogance is truly astounding, it turns my stomach to the extent that I want to throw up. The tories always have to have a bogey man, and quite frankly, I'm sick of being their bogey man!

bobby wrote:20 years without the Tories is all well and good, and I will do my utmost to assist in that happening. The only thing is, their evil policies and privatisations, will still be with us long after they have been consigned to the cess pit..

When the cuts kick in next year there will be civil unrest, and riots on our streets........and who would really blame people for reacting to the rampant injustices imposed on them by the criminal tory party.

The tories have instigated a class war. They are the guilty ones here.

I hope that the Labour party don't take years, or even months, to revoke ALL current tory acts/legislature - and simply tear up every policy the Tories have brought in.

They had no bloody mandate to start with! The lying shysters!

How many children do you have to have for them to be considered as being extra?

More than One, More than Two, More than Three, More than Four?

At one time the average family had Two Point Four children, this was considered needed to maintain the British population and provide enough people to support our aging population but now we are being told that we will have a massive growth in older people so who will look after them?

Percentage One child families ......2001= 42.5% ...2011= 46.3%
Percentage Two children Fams .....2001= 40.8%...2011= 39.1%
Percentage Three or More Children.2001=16.7%....2011=14.6%

So Gideon's words are more Smoke and Mirrors for the Tory Faithful.......

They'll be shipping us all off to a gulag before long...

"When the cuts kick in next year there will be civil unrest, and riots on our streets........"

All too late then chip. By the time the meek and tolerant public wake up, I fear it will be too late. Now is the time for civil unrest, we need a loud mouth to spark the revolt off. No point in hoping the unions will start the ball rolling, they seem non existant so far.

" No point in hoping the unions will start the ball rolling, they seem non existant so far."

With good reason unfortunately, Mel. Maggie's modifications to Strike legislation put Union funds at risk of confiscation. No doubt someone at Conservative HQ is at this very moment opening a dusty drawer of 1980s press cuttings.

Indeed OW, as with ALL the Tory scoundrels measures, they are measured to be very much irriverisible.

We need some good old fahioned counter propaganda to incite the people
into mass protest and down tools. We shouldn't have to go as far as propaganda, because the evil Tory policies should really be enough to stir the sleeping public beast into action. However,I can see them sleeping until it is far too late and the irriversible damage will therefore be implemented.

Extracts from an article by Barbara Ellen:-

“In Duncan Smith’s view, hardworking (striving) people are procreating at just the correct rate to suit their budget. Meanwhile, poor unemployed (skiving?) people are just chucking them out, because they know the state will pay for them. Duncan Smith proposes that this group only receive aid for the first two children, presumably in terms of child benefit, tax credits, housing et al. However, those who already have an excess of children would not be affected, presumably to give the fecklessly shagging poor time to put their reproductive organs in order. (Oh, thank you kindly, most merciful gentleman!)

First of all, what is this: 'Benefits China'? It brought in a one-child rule in one way; IDS wants a two-child rule in another way, but there seems scant ethical difference. And the truth is there aren't even that many over-procreating skivers. It's already been pointed out that, by targeting the surprisingly small amount of long-term unemployed, with more than two children, Duncan Smith won't save much money. The vast majority of people on jobseeker's allowance are back working within a year and only 4% have more than two children.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/28/barbara-ellen-iain-duncan-smith-benefits

You're All in it Together

msn)

" I want you to suffer, Britain - and I'll make bloody sure you do...!"

Adele Carlyon wrote:Labour gave us as a family a little bit of tax credit and that little bit along with the minimum wage helped us to keep our heads just above water, instead of treading it. My ex husband had health problems and in the end needed a valve replacement. We saw how much the NHS improved under labour and how much waiting times came down. I saw my son's school finally get the badly needed repairs done, that under the tories had been left to crumble. People go off their own experiences I suppose. Now under the tories I always felt scared and broke and sneered upon. They gave us no peg up, they just clobbered us and sold everything off and forced the prices up. To me they are nasty, the nasty and cruel party. Labour have done things that I haven't liked, but this lot have no grasp of what some people have to endure on a daily basis, and i always felt that the labour party did understand these things more. And their arrogance is truly astounding, it turns my stomach to the extent that I want to throw up. The tories always have to have a bogey man, and quite frankly, I'm sick of being their bogey man!

Very well said Delly Huni

Adele Carlyon wrote:They'll be shipping us all off to a gulag before long...

They had better not try that Delly...OR they will get my boot right up there backsides

Em x

Today, Wednesday 14th November 2012 saw Public demonstrations in Lisbon, Madrid, Rome and Athens against austerity budgets.

Meantime there is a tent city in Calais of would-be immmigrants to Britain. The locals think that "we" should be doing something about that, but what makes Britain seem so attractive to economic migrants?

Perhaps it's the charisma attaching to a Coalition Government.

This is so sad, and just the sort of thing that fuels my hatred of all things Tory:-


YouTube

The welfare reforms, just like the NHS aren't about saving the taxpayer money - they about creating a more easily exploitable labour force for the Plutocrats

Magpie's View wrote:The welfare reforms, just like the NHS aren't about saving the taxpayer money - they about creating a more easily exploitable labour force for the Plutocrats

Shire Tories have never been bright enough on their own to develop such dogma, but a succession of America's extreme right-wing "advisers" (starting with Milton Friedman, but still coming...) have found a ready ear for radical proposals. With the recent elimination of a Republican candidate as President of the USA, it's likely that we shall now enjoy an increasing eastward stream of interns anxious to try out their theories on a cowed workforce.

That's right - you look on the bright side - blooming Pollyanna!

Another fine example of ‘Compassionate Conservatism’.

Extracts from an article by Polly Toynbee:-

“Britain keeps plunging further back in time. This month we just slipped back 46 years, to before Ken Loach's ‘Cathy Come Home’ shocked the nation on the plight of homeless families. From then on, local authorities were given a legal obligation to take families in and find them social housing locally at an affordable rent. No longer.

As of this month, all a council need do is find a private landlord anywhere with a one-year lease, and wash their hands of them thereafter. Families can be housed anywhere with an "affordable" rent, hundreds of miles away in districts where rents are cheap because jobs are non-existent. Wrench children out of schools, parents from their jobs, take families away from where they lived for generations without the means to pay train fares for visits home – all this breaks the social contract on housing. Meanwhile, many of these families won't be able to pay the 20% of council tax due in April; that will mean huge arrears for councils.

The government likes to quote bizarre cases of families housed in £100,000 a year mansions: it emerges that there were just five of these temporary oddities. Using extreme examples, the government pledged to cut the £20.8bn housing benefit bill by £2bn; instead it has already risen by £4.7bn. Almost all new claimants are in work – but earning too little to pay the rent: they will lose their jobs when forcibly removed elsewhere. The threat to make under-25s ineligible for housing benefit, forcing them to stay at home if they have one, will stop them leaving to seek apprenticeships or jobs after college: forget "on your bike" or social mobility – those born in workless Knowsley or Hull can never leave.”

For the full article:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/22/2013-boom-year-bailiffs-slum-landlords?CMP=twt_gu

The worst government ever.

The Lib-Dem Quislings who opened the Tory cage will reap the whirlwind.

Just when you thought things couldn't get any worse under this evil government, they do. The descent into fascism continues:-

Sick and disabled braced for enforced work-for-benefits programme

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/30/sick-disabled-work-benefits-programme?CMP=twt_gu

The next time any Liberal Democrats knock on your door, pretending to advocate progressive centre-left policies, remind them of what their party has allowed the Tories to do.

Was it Kinnock who originally said something like : " I warn you not to get sick under a Tory Government"? How right he was , if so.

But, if anything, the LibDems are even more to blame than the Tories for the heartless and spiteful regime which has been imposed upon the disadvantaged. We always knew a Conservative approach would be cruel and without pity, but there were those poor souls who believed that LibDems might have at least a touch of common decency about them. As it turned out, Clegg and his bunch of assorted creepy-crawlies have proven to be shameless, yet willing, participants in the wholesale treachery perpetrated against those who are most in need.

As one who is fortunate enough to have far more than he will ever need , I feel a greater sense of anger and injustice against the Coalition and all it stands for than I can ever recall feeling about anything else. They are a disgusting bunch and we can but hope that their just desserts are served up to them in full measure - and as soon as possible...

Clear your diary for Wednesday, when George "mañana" Osborne will put everything right for the Country. Later.

The ACTUAL "Last Chance Saloon".

Cheers!