Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

First topic message reminder :

In my opinion, the UK under our extreme right-wing government is rapidly degenerating into velvet glove fascism.

Like all fascists, Hitler was against trade unions and socialists. Similarly, Michael Gove vilified primary school teachers and dinner ladies, many of whom went on strike for the first time in their lives on 30 November last year, as “militants itching for a fight”. Gove has plans for military cadets in every school (Cameron Youth?) and a return to children sitting in rows reciting lists of kings and queens in history lessons, rather than learning to think. Hitler also realised how important history was to indoctrination when he ordered the mass burning of books. Tories close libraries.

Hitler made sure that he controlled the media. The Tories have cowed the BBC by threats of fragmentation and sharing the licence fee with others, such as Murdoch. The BBC, which was required to be impartial, has become just another mouthpiece for Tory propaganda. As soon as they came to power in 2010, the Tories instructed every minister to repeat over and over again the whopping lie that Labour, not Tory bankers, caused the global credit crisis. We have the repeated lie about everyone in the public sector getting “gold-plated pensions”, when the average is only £5,600 per annum. As Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Cameron has proved over and over again that he’s a pathological liar.

Hitler divided and ruled the German people by scapegoating Jews and gypsies. The Tories are demonising those who receive benefits, one result of which is that disability hate crimes are increasing. Duncan Smith went on breakfast television on 27 May 2010 and made the chilling remark: "Work makes you free". That's an exact translation of the sign which used to hang over the entrances to concentration camps.

The Tories have plans to force 50,000 disabled youth to work for companies such as Sainsbury's and Tesco's unpaid. Cancer patients are being made to undergo work assessments while being treated with chemotherapy, and wounded soldiers are being sacked. (Osborne is willing to take money from the disabled and cancer patients, but not prepared to veto Hester's bonus from the largely state-owned RBS.)

The police are being trained to shoot people with rubber bullets and will be issued with water cannon, yet the Tories were so keen on helping Arab rebels in North Africa. Two unknown Scottish teenagers made a joke on 'Facebook' about organising riots, and they both received four years in jail. A prominent Tory TV presenter (and personal friend of Cameron) made a tasteless joke about murdering trade unionists on prime time television; nothing was done about it and the BBC continue to pay him £1 million a year of our money.

We don't have any concentration camps in the UK, but the principles are the same - propaganda, indoctrination, and divide and rule by demonising a section of the population. While Hitler gassed Jews, the Tories clearly don't care if benefit claimants starve to death. Even payments from the Social Fund, for those in the most desperate need, will no longer be available from job centres but will be at the 'discretion' of local councils, who will not have to ring-fence the money. All the ingredients of fascism are there, but it's just being handed out to us in a more genteel form than Hitler used - in velvet gloves.

LWS wrote:

Ivan wrote:The principles of fascism are to spread propaganda, indoctrination, divide and rule by demonising a section of the population, then start a war.

Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”. The Tories said over and over again that Labour caused the global credit crunch.

Cameron’s disastrous visit to a hospital in Newcastle – when journalists were locked in waiting rooms and patients confined to their beds – went largely unreported by the intimidated BBC, where Tory Chris Patten has been installed as chairman of its trust. It appears that the BBC has been gagged by the Tories. Not even a mention on the Radio 4 news at 6pm on 28 January of the welfare protests which closed roads around Oxford Circus in London, with disabled people demonstrating in wheelchairs. A story which has had prominence on a BBC website entitled ‘NHS in peril if shake-up fails’ turned out to be the opinion of just 50 of our 42,000 GPs.

Hitler burned books, the Tories close libraries. Gove is planning military cadets in every school – will they be called Cameron Youth? Hitler burned down the Reichstag, while the Tories and their Lib Dem poodles are gerrymandering constituencies, packing the House of Lords with cronies and have fixed the length of parliaments without any mandate.

Like all fascists, Hitler was against trade unions and socialists. Similarly, Gove vilified primary school teachers and dinner ladies, many of whom went on strike for the first time in their lives on 30 November last year, as “militants itching for a fight”. But Aidan Burley can go to a Nazi stag night and play with his mobile during a holocaust survivor’s lecture, and he’s still a Tory MP.

Hitler divided and ruled the German people by scapegoating Jews and gypsies. The Tories are demonising those who receive benefits, one result of which is that disability hate crimes are increasing. The Tories have plans to force 50,000 disabled youth to work for unpaid.

All that’s needed now is a war, so that those of us who don’t support this evil government can be vilified as unpatriotic. Take your pick – Iran, Syria, or a re-match with Argentina? When even ‘The Daily Mail’ can see the similarities with Nazi Germany, it ought to be time for people to wake up and realise that this country is drifting into fascism under the jackboot of Cameron and his multimillionaire bullies.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2102484/This-wartime-Nazi-Germany-Camerons-attacks-vulnerable-needy-stopped.html

Couldn't agree more Ivan. The Tories however aren't 'velvet gloved fascists', but are clearly those of the jack booted variety, whom Hitler would have been proud of. They are totally dispicable to state the least.

And there using those jack boots to stamp all over the poor and disadvantaged people of the UK, yes I agree Ivan good post,

Ivan wrote: The Tories said over and over again that Labour caused the global credit crunch.

NO!!!! the Torys are not saying over and over again that Labour caused the global credit crunch. It is Labour and their supporters who keep saying it.

However I do agree with you, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”, and you now have comrade Ed accusing the Government of propagating "a great deceit designed to damage Labour" over his party's handling of the economy.

What is this deceit? It is that the deficit was caused by chronic overspending rather than a global financial crisis that resulted in recession and a calamitous collapse in tax revenues

Institute for Fiscal Studies: By the eve of the financial crisis, [fiscal drift under Labour] had left the UK with one of the largest structural budget deficits in the developed world...

[b]The Governor of the Bank of England: We are confronted with a situation where the scale of deficits is truly extraordinary.

[b]Tony Blair: We should also accept that from 2005 onwards Labour was insufficiently vigorous in limiting or eliminating the potential structural deficit.

Alistair Darling [by the autumn of 2007]We had reached the limits of what I thought we should be spending’
(Alistair Darling, The Times, 19 November 2010).

The Legacy from Labour and the Compromises Reached Between the Governing Coalition Parties
The Labour government had overspent under both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. An inherited budget surplus had become a regular budget deficit, predictions of economic growth were overly optimistic, and plans for public spending were unaffordable. When the financial crisis and recession of 2007–2009 hit, Mr. Brown, true to his prejudices and convictions, then spent much more. This dramatically worsened the state of public finances without avoiding recession. On the eve of the 2010 general election, Labour finally promised to rein back the deficit, but without providing details. The Conservatives in the election campaign were equally—and deliberately—reticent, though they promised quicker action to curb borrowing. This urgency was amply justified. The U.K. budget deficit in Labour’s last year rose to 11 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), the highest in the country’s peacetime history and the largest structural deficit in Europe.
Robin Harris writes for The Heritage Foundation, from where this article is adapted.

atv wrote:

Ivan wrote: The Tories said over and over again that Labour caused the global credit crunch.

NO!!!! the Torys are not saying over and over again that Labour caused the global credit crunch. It is Labour and their supporters who keep saying it.

However I do agree with you, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”, and you now have comrade Ed accusing the Government of propagating "a great deceit designed to damage Labour" over his party's handling of the economy.

What is this deceit? It is that the deficit was caused by chronic overspending rather than a global financial crisis that resulted in recession and a calamitous collapse in tax revenues

Institute for Fiscal Studies: By the eve of the financial crisis, [fiscal drift under Labour] had left the UK with one of the largest structural budget deficits in the developed world...

[b]The Governor of the Bank of England: We are confronted with a situation where the scale of deficits is truly extraordinary.

[b]Tony Blair: We should also accept that from 2005 onwards Labour was insufficiently vigorous in limiting or eliminating the potential structural deficit.

Alistair Darling [by the autumn of 2007]We had reached the limits of what I thought we should be spending’
(Alistair Darling, The Times, 19 November 2010).

The Legacy from Labour and the Compromises Reached Between the Governing Coalition Parties
The Labour government had overspent under both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. An inherited budget surplus had become a regular budget deficit, predictions of economic growth were overly optimistic, and plans for public spending were unaffordable. When the financial crisis and recession of 2007–2009 hit, Mr. Brown, true to his prejudices and convictions, then spent much more. This dramatically worsened the state of public finances without avoiding recession. On the eve of the 2010 general election, Labour finally promised to rein back the deficit, but without providing details. The Conservatives in the election campaign were equally—and deliberately—reticent, though they promised quicker action to curb borrowing. This urgency was amply justified. The U.K. budget deficit in Labour’s last year rose to 11 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), the highest in the country’s peacetime history and the largest structural deficit in Europe.
Robin Harris writes for The Heritage Foundation, from where this article is adapted.

You need to bite your tongue for the untruths in your post atv, all we have heard is the "MESS LABOUR LEFT " or the 13 years that they where in power giving the people of the UK that "DRIP DRIP EFFECT" until the UK believed it but now they are finding out to there sorrow who caused the crisis the B(W)ankers and the hedge fund managers the only thing is the normal working man/women are the ones paying the prices while the B(W)ankers are still receiving high salaries and even bigger BONUSES.

The Tories said over and over again that Labour caused the global credit crunch.

NO!!!! the Torys are not saying over and over again that Labour caused the global credit crunch. It is Labour and their supporters who keep saying it.

ATV, Before the last erection, Cameron and his cronies were going on and banging on at every opportunity like stuck records. Tou still get it now in interviews.

I am neither Tory or Labour but there is no hiding the false accusations of the Bories just simply to get No 10 and GIVE the NHS to their paymasters er friends.

The Labour government had overspent under both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.

atv. So just tell me why, in 2007, George Osborne announced to the Tory conference that he would match Labour's spending plans and maybe increase them??

Ivan. Sent you message 2 days ago?

trevorw2539. Nothing in my inbox from you. Check to see if it's still in your outbox (which would indicate that it hasn't been read by the recipient, me); at least you will still have a copy of it and can try again.

According to one of those increasingly famous Channel 4 Factchecks, the drop in tax receipts triggered by the economic crisis is what was behind the bulk of the £149 billion deficit. In other words, the crisis caused the loss of revenue which caused the deficit.

As that part of the deficit is cyclical rather than structural, it will disappear if and when the economy recovers, and therefore doesn’t require action by the government to reduce it. If you get the economy growing again, which Osborne is palpably failing to do, Treasury revenues from taxation will increase and benefit payments will go down.

Ivan wrote "atv. So just tell me why, in 2007, George Osborne announced to the Tory conference that he would match Labour's spending plans and maybe increase them?? "

A very valid point Ivam makes atv. I trust you will have to agree that he is correct.

atv. The Tories have tried to blame Labour for the Global Crisis from time to time.
I think that the real truth is that it was the GC that greated the problem not only here but in so many countries as we now can see. Therefore had it not been for the fear brought into the markets by the fall of Lehmans, then we would not have had such a collapse of confidence throughout the worlds markets and banking sectors, that went from bad to worse like a falling pack of cards.
Nothing whatsoever to do with Browns spending activity, as your beloved Tories have hoodwinked guilible Joe public for purely political gain and nothing else.
Now that their rediculous and rutheless austerity measures are not working as they never would without effort for growth, it's now a "Euro Crisis". Very convienient, but the truth is very evident, even perhaps to the guilible. Cameron keeps his fingers crossed that they are stll blind to the reality.

Umm. Gideon Osborne's cuts haven't really started to bite yet, since they will mostly take effect after April 5th. 2012.

Don't expect a General Election this year.

oftenwrong wrote:Umm. Gideon Osborne's cuts haven't really started to bite yet, since they will mostly take effect after April 5th. 2012.

Don't expect a General Election this year.

But maybe by the end of this year as the cuts take hold of peoples living standards, Or when the bedroom tax bill and the Welfare reform bill takes effect then the brown stuff hits the fan people will be in uproar so do not be too quick to judge OW.

End of the Year Flag??


I'm getting bitten HARD right now. Watch this space in April

astra wrote:End of the Year Flag??


I'm getting bitten HARD right now. Watch this space in April

That is when the brown stuff will hit the fan astra, between April and December this year when the truth of the Bills that the Tories have pushed through the H.O.C come to fruition, and the people of the UK find out the Tory Gov't have been blaming what they call the scroungers and work shy is nothing more than a PILE of B/S, so I reckon when people are living on the streets of the UK or are having to live in B/Bs there will be big trouble for this Tory Gov't.

Yes I agree Redflag....Please vote Labour back in and let them sort out the mess. They are so much better at making the books balance that I am sure we will be up there with Greece in no time at all.

You might have thought that the authorities in the Channel Islands would have known better than to let the Daily Mail be inflicted upon its residents...

Hello Blue. Tell me, do you think that the growth Labour left for Gideon to phuk up, and the lowering unemployement Labour left for Gideon to phuk up, are simply figments of our collective immaginations?

Its your Hero's Herr Cameron and Twat boy Gideon that is causing us to be heading in Greeces direction.

blueturando wrote:Yes I agree Redflag....Please vote Labour back in and let them sort out the mess. They are so much better at making the books balance that I am sure we will be up there with Greece in no time at all.

So you think we should just sit back and let this shower of A**E H**ES Fcuk up the country, I notice you have not said anything about the unemployed figures that have risen to a 17 YEAR high they have not been that high since the last TORY GOV'T was in power, and what about the Economy FLATLINING no growth and not a good outlook for this year.

And just so you know I would rather vote BNP and I do not believe in there policies but rather Labour knowing they are FAIRNESS for ALL not just the CHOSEN FEW.

Stand back for a bit, and you can see that
(1) The Leveson Enquiry is peeling back the cosy relationship between politicians, Press hacks and bent coppers like separating onion skins. and
(2) The Coalition is backfiring on Tory Masterplans by challenging every comma and full-stop in their plans to sell-off the NHS.

For the first time in modern History, we can see the join.

oftenwrong wrote:Stand back for a bit, and you can see that
(1) The Leveson Enquiry is peeling back the cosy relationship between politicians, Press hacks and bent coppers like separating onion skins. and
(2) The Coalition is backfiring on Tory Masterplans by challenging every comma and full-stop in their plans to sell-off the NHS.

For the first time in modern History, we can see the join.

Good post OW and very true, do you think the join will come undone ?

[quote="Redflag You need to bite your tongue for the untruths in your post atv,

And what untruths were they.

Are you saying the IFS were wrong?
Are you saying The Governor of the Bank of England, Tony Blair and Alistair Darling didn't make those statements?
Are you saying Robin Harris who writes for The Heritage Foundation, made the story up?

There is an old saying,
When one doesn't like the "message", "shooting the messenger is always advisable".

atv wrote:

[quote="Redflag You need to bite your tongue for the untruths in your post atv,

And what untruths were they.

Are you saying the IFS were wrong?
Are you saying The Governor of the Bank of England, Tony Blair and Alistair Darling didn't make those statements?
Are you saying Robin Harris who writes for The Heritage Foundation, made the story up?

There is an old saying,
When one doesn't like the "message", "shooting the messenger is always advisable".

That does not sound good atv when you can not remember the lies you have said, is that another Tory FAILURE.

Redflag wrote:

That does not sound good atv when you can not remember the lies you have said, is that another Tory FAILURE.

Then maybe you can refresh my memory.

atv wrote:

Redflag wrote:

That does not sound good atv when you can not remember the lies you have said, is that another Tory FAILURE.

Then maybe you can refresh my memory.

Do your own work are you one of those IDLERS that this Gov't talks about.

Training one's memory to be selective comes free as part of Tory indoctrination.

Redflag wrote:

atv wrote:

Redflag wrote:

That does not sound good atv when you can not remember the lies you have said, is that another Tory FAILURE.

Then maybe you can refresh my memory.

Do your own work are you one of those IDLERS that this Gov't talks about.

A typical reply, but not unexpected.

oftenwrong wrote:Training one's memory to be selective comes free as part of Tory indoctrination.

Training one's memory to be selective appears to be quite common with quite a few on this forum.

Training one's memory to be selective appears to be quite common with quite a few on this forum

They go to leftie training classes for that ATV....It's called criticise the Tories for something we did first, but try not to remember we did it first and if all else fails just ignore or fall silent...If that fails turn red with anger and call everyone a right wing fascist....job done!

' Fascist' is always a tempting insult to throw at political opponents.

However,but for the disgrace it would bring, the Tories would love to actually adopt many of the practices of such a political extreme...

Lol Bobby....My turn for name chucking. Maybe Labour should change their name to the Farc Party or Barder Meinhoff....Good ole leftie causes they are.

I like this game...shall we play again another time?

bobby wrote:blueturando wrote: They go to leftie training classes for that ATV....It's called criticise the Tories for something we did first, but try not to remember we did it first and if all else fails just ignore or fall silent...If that fails turn red with anger and call everyone a right wing fascist....job done!

Now I know you are nothing but a wind up merchant bluey. Theres only one creature that keeps going red and blows his gasket, and thats your Gloreous Leader Herr Cameron, Leader of the UK Fascist Party.

Bobby
funny you should post the above..its just what i was thinking...Herr Cameron blows hot and cold on just about everything. quite amazing

blueturando wrote:

Training one's memory to be selective appears to be quite common with quite a few on this forum

They go to leftie training classes for that ATV....It's called criticise the Tories for something we did first, but try not to remember we did it first and if all else fails just ignore or fall silent...If that fails turn red with anger and call everyone a right wing fascist....job done!

funny I work in economics and have yet to see any figures that show how good the Tory party runs the economy? hear lots of hot air...but not much else as yet..

Ivan wrote:"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group (family), or any controlling private power."

Franklin D. Roosevelt

The words of a very wise man Ivan

Earlier this year David Cameron said he still regarded the top rate tax- introduced by Labour in 2010 - as a "temporary" measure following reports that the Government had accepted it would be politically difficult to axe it before the 2015 general election.

I remember Cameron saying this and thought at the time he had every intention of removing the top rate well before 2015.
I am certain that Osborne will announce this removal in the next budget.
Who will have paid for this I ask? Is that a silly question?

Of course the excuse will be that the removal will assist growth. Assist those who already have, have more, Tory policy as always more like it.

blueturando wrote:

Training one's memory to be selective appears to be quite common with quite a few on this forum

They go to leftie training classes for that ATV....It's called criticise the Tories for something we did first, but try not to remember we did it first and if all else fails just ignore or fall silent...If that fails turn red with anger and call everyone a right wing fascist....job done!

I did not need to go to Leftie training classes that is the way I was born, I noticed that you have been through the Tory party sausage machine where Ideology and Dogma was DRUMMED into your head to complete the BRAIN WASHING.

Just like the Nazis were, the Tories are above the law. Unlike the Nazis, it seems that the Tories were above the law even before they came to power.

"Robert Quick, formerly Britain's top counter-terrorism officer, has alleged that his senior Scotland Yard colleagues buckled under Conservative Party pressure and withdrew their support for the investigation of a Tory frontbench spokesman who had received leaks which endangered national security.

Quick told the Leveson Inquiry that the arrest in 2008 of the Conservative immigration spokesman, Damian Green, sparked outrage from senior Tories and Conservative-leaning papers. Quick said the furore led the then acting Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, to ask him to halt the criminal investigation.

Quick alleged that Green had not just received the leaks but encouraged a civil servant to pass on information that might have endangered national security.

He said his investigation began after a complaint from the government that material had been stolen from the safe of the then Home Secretary's private office. Green, who is now an immigration minister, was arrested in November 2008 by Scotland Yard.

The arrest and search of Green's House of Commons office was condemned by Cameron, then Leader of the Opposition, and London Mayor Boris Johnson, who is now in control of setting the Met budget and strategic priorities, as well as having the power to fire the commissioner."

For the full article:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/mar/07/leveson-inquiry-tory-pressure-damian-green-leak?CMP=twt_gu

Just like the Nazis were, Blair and Labour thought they were above UN law...As usual Ivan, what's good for the goose...etc

Blair and Labour thought they were above UN law

blue. I assume that's a reference to the invasion of Iraq - which I did not support - but which did not involve the bullying of the police in this country to pervert the course of justice. It's possible that Damian Green should be in jail rather than in the government, but so should most of these sick gangsters who tell disabled people to look for work and then take their jobs away from them.

With regard to Iraq, Saddam Hussein had failed to abide by UN resolution 678 from 1991, which was still in force. The authorisation to use force in UN resolution 678 included the restoration of international peace and security, as well as the liberation of Kuwait.

Resolution 687, after the 1991 ceasefire, included getting rid of weapons of mass destruction. The run of resolutions after that shows there was still backing for it in the Security Council. The possession of such weapons constituted a threat to international peace and security. Resolution 1441 in 2002 reiterated that. It was the common belief of the Security Council that Iraq had such weapons, and that they constituted a breach of binding resolutions. We know from the Blix report that Iraq did not fully co-operate.

Through that period there was a long series of Security Council resolutions condemning the Iraqis for what was believed to be their possession of WMD. Resolution 678 may have been twelve years old, but it didn’t make it any less effective. If you follow that logic, most of our domestic laws would no longer be in force.

So the comparison is spurious, because no UN law was broken. It might have been wise to wait for yet another UN resolution, but George Bush - not Tony Blair - decided to invade Iraq at that point in time, and we followed suit.

blueturando wrote:Yes I agree Redflag....Please vote Labour back in and let them sort out the mess. They are so much better at making the books balance that I am sure we will be up there with Greece in no time at all.

Well I am sure my landlady at my local could run the economy better than this....


At the very time tax revenues are declining and a debt crisis is ravaging the global economy and UK, our politicians have chosen to go on an unprecedented spending splurge. To fund it, the Government borrowed a monumental £170.8 billion last year. If all goes well, we're set to borrow another £167.9 billion this year.

This kind of deficit is far greater than during the recessions of the 80s and early 90s and even higher than when Britain went cap in hand to the IMF in 1976

It's possible that Damian Green should be in jail rather than in the government.

i COULD NOT AGREE MORE WITH THIS...