Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

First topic message reminder :

Adding in new economic data shows that the so-called Austerity economic policy alone does not work. It's clear too me that its totally unsustainable as it destroys countries competiveness while draining confidence within business while driving down not only living standers that in turn shrinks demand. Do you believe the Tories will stick with there only economic policy up-to the next GE? if they do, I happen to believe most people will call time on the Tory party.





Growth Forecast downgraded for the Fifth time by (OBR in November 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time by Bank of England 1.4% August 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to 1.7% (Budget 2011)
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by Ernst & Young from1.7% to 0.9% Jan 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time to by CBI to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by CBI to 1.2% Sept 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by CBI to 0.9% Feb 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by I.M.F to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by I.M.F to 0.6% Jan 2012
Growth forecast in the Tory budget down for a 3rd time to 1.7% (Budget 2011
Growth forecast in the City as low as 1.2% 2011
Disposable income has seen its Sharpest fall in 30 years or 1980s (ONS)
Annual Earnings Growth remains at 1.9% in February 2012
GDP The last cycle of robust growth in potential output of 2.9% was 1997 to 2006 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
GDP when the Tory-Liberal coalition come to power ,the UK was growing at an annual rate of 4% (OBR)
GDP sluggish at just 0.5% for April 2011 (OBR)
GDP City Growth forecast for 2012 are 0.3% to 0.4% (FT Sept 2011)
GDP Growth for forecast set by bank of England at 2.0% 2010
GDP Contracted by 0.5% in the Q4 in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 0.8% lower than in November 2010 (OBR)
GDP IS 0.2% lower than MARCH 2011 (OBR)
GDP Growth Contracted by 0.5% Q4 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth April 2011 was Q1 0.5% (OBR)
GDP Growth July 2011 was just Q2 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth starts Jan Q1 2012 at just 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth December 2011 Contracted by 0.2% Q4 (OBR)
GDP April's figures have just clawed back last years 0.5% contraction in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 1.1% lower than the OBR thought it would be in Sept 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth is now lower than 1930s, 1970s, 1980s 1990s (OBR)
GDP UK is 3.6% blow its pre-financial crisis 2008 (H.M.Trasury)
National Debt hits £1.03 Trillion for the first Time Jan 2012 (OBR)
National Debt actual debt after repurchase by Bank of England is £650 Billion (Guardian on B of E figures)
National Debt Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2011 was £75 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2012 was £50 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt total Quantitative Easing is £325 Billion in February 2012 (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt private + public sector debt totals some 500% 2011 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
National Debt Tory Party forecast National debt will fall by just £54 Billion by 2015 (Tory party website)
UK Economic Decline is two and half times that of the entire Euro zone (ONS & H.M.Trasury) 2011
UK Economic Decline is 77% of the EU’s decline for 2011 (H.M.Trasury)
UK Economy shrank by 5.0% in 2009 the biggest calendar year fall since 1921 ( NIE)
UK Economy shrank by 6.3% in 2011 the biggest calendar year fall on record by October 2011 ( NIE)
UK Pound exchange rate has fallen by 21.0% against the Dollar 2011 (H.M.Trasury)
UK lose market share accelerated from 2008 to 2010. (Oxford Economic )
Government Borrowing Tory-Liberal coalition come to power stated an additional £111 Billion 2009 (OBR)
Government Borrowing Net borrowing was just £7.3 Billion in 2010 (H.M.Trasury)
Government Borrowing forecast up by £54 Billion (Budget 2011)
Government Borrowing overshot in Q4 by £127 Billion (OBR)
Government Borrowing overshot in Jan 2012 by £157 Billion (ONS)
Government Borrowing topped the £10 billion by just Feb 2011 (OBR)
Government Borrowing to be £10 billion higher every year from 2012 (OBR)
Government Borrowing in Jan 2012 was £13.7 billion for December 2011 overshooting (OBR)
Private Pension deficit up from £24.5 Billion to £31.7 Billion by Sept 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension Deficit £158 billion December 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension deficit £255.2 form £222 billion in Jan 2012 (N.M.A & ONS)
UK 10 Year bonds, the Historical high of 12.84% set in April 1990 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 year Bonds, Record low of 1.97% set in Jan 2012 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 Year Bonds, Yields decline by 1.47% from 1989 to 2012 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 Year Bonds, averaged 6.28% (H.M.Trasury)
Unemployment up to record 17 year high (ONS)
Unemployment record was set in 1981 at 2.6 million or 9.8% of the Workforce
Unemployment for woman rose for the 10th month in a row March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment increased by 20,000 the highest three month figure since Jan 1997 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 7.7% of economically active population March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment forecast in the budget set to rise to 8.1% in 2012 (Budget 2011)
Unemployment is was2.6 million in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 2.8 million in December 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Claimants increased by 12,400 in March 2011 to April 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Woman Claimants increased by 9,300 to 474,400 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Men Claimants increased by 3,100 to 994,200 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment 16-24 hit 1.043 million in Q3, the highest since records began in 1992. 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment benefit payments rose by 1,200 to 1.6 million by December 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment benefit payments up to 1980s levels (ONS)
Business failures in 2010 was 23,000 (ONS)
Business failures in 2011 was 20,900 or 6.5% (ONS)
Bankers Bonus for £14 billion for 2011 (FT & Guardian & BBC)
Manufacturing was flat Feb 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing production out put 1.5% decline in April 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing touted as the engine of the economy fall by 0.3% in July 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing jobless in Q4 2011 to Jan 2012 was up to 395,000
Manufacturing production Cable & Wireless Communication slumped nearly 17% in 2011 (FT)
BDOs output index dropped from Decembers 91.4% to February 2012 to 91.2%
Exports fell in Jan 2011 (HMCR)
Exports Vs Imports increased by 14.7% in October 2011 (HMCR)
Factory gate prices rose 0.9% between February & March 2011 (ONS)
Factory gate prices rose at an annual rate of 5.3% in May 2011 (ONS)
Factory gate prices in December 2011 to 4.8% (ONS)
Factory gate prices fell in January 2012 to 4.1% (ONS)
Factory gate Producers input price inflation in January 2012 is 7% (ONS)
Mortgage & Credit card debt will soar to £2,126 billion by 2015 (ONS)
Mortgage debt now accounts is around £21,000 per person April 2011 (ONS)
Home repossessions peak set in 1991 at 19,000 homes (council of mortgage lenders)
Home repossession forecast to rise to 45,000 in 2012 (council of mortgage lenders )
Construction industry suffered a 0.5% fall in output from November to January 2012 (ONS)
North sea Oil Tax up by £2 Billion for 2011, with HMCR taking 88% in Tax (ONS)
The Worst squeeze on living standards for 90 years
Consumer spending accounts for 65% of the UK economy April 2011 (OMS)
Consumer spending shows the biggest fell in total sales since the survey began in 1995 (KPMG)
Consumer spending has fallen by 1.7% for four consecutive Q in 2011. (ONS)
Personal Spending shows it first drop in personal spending power since the Thatcher slump in 1980s (KMPG)
Petrol down by 1p with VAT up by 2% in the Budget 2011
Petrol prices average increased by 52% up to March 2010
Food Prices rose 7.4% in the biggest rise since 2009 (ONS)
Food Prices rising at 4.9% rising faster than any other OECD in Jan 2012 member (UBS & OECD)
CPI Inflation increase to 3.3% December 2010 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
CPI has put the cost of living double its target from 4% in Jan 2011 to 4.4% in April 2011 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
CPI September 2011 rises by 5.2% (ONS)
CPI October 2011 fall by just 0.2% to 5.0% (ONS)
CPI January 2012 fell to 4.8% from 5.0% (Bank of England)
RPI has gone from 5.1% to 5.5% the highest since 1991 (ONS)
RPI Jan 2011 leapt to CPI 4% from 3.7% with Market Oracle putting real inflation at 6.6% 2012 .

Hello Dan,

Excellent post! It is astonishing that the government, banks, and corporations are still pursuing neo-liberal policies and economic models that are certain to fail again.

Not really astonishing, sickchip, when you acknowledge that Man is the only one of God's creatures that will trip over the same stone twice, and again and again and again.

sickchip wrote:Hello Dan,

Excellent post! It is astonishing that the government, banks, and corporations are still pursuing neo-liberal policies and economic models that are certain to fail again.

Thanks for the compliment and, following on from what I mentioned about a housing boom, the ONS has just revealed that UK house prices are at a record level, even higher than the peak of the boom in 2008. The average cost of a house of flat in the UK now being just a smidgen under a cool £0.25million! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24533059

Collectively, British banks and building-societies have a very considerable interest in the state of the property market - they own two-thirds of it, so falling prices mean bad news. How kind it was of Gideon Osborne therefore to take action guaranteed to maintain the "value" of mortgaged properties.

oftenwrong wrote:Collectively, British banks and building-societies have a very considerable interest in the state of the property market - they own two-thirds of it,  so falling prices mean bad news. How kind it was of Gideon Osborne therefore to take action guaranteed to maintain the "value" of mortgaged properties.

I don't see how it's all that different to Milliband's talk of freezing energy prices yet he was roundly condemned by the Tories for what they perceived as being a socialist attempting to manipulate the market. Not that I'm suggesting they're hypocrites or anything.

Tax? Freezing energy bills? Incentives to work? Help with mortgages? Etc. None of it will REALLY make much difference without a radical change in wage differentials.

The problem is clearly wealth distribution and that starts with wage differentials and company wage structures.

A lot of people clearly get paid too much whilst others aren't paid enough. This cannot be refuted or argued against. Why is there no argument? Because no person working full time should require state top-ups to their wage via tax credits, housing benefits, etc. The fact that they do clearly means others are taking more than their fair share of the spoils.

Let's say a company has a £1million per month wage bill.....they should keep their wage bill at that amount and then: put the lowest paid worker on a living wage - one with no need for state benefits, and then share the rest amongst those above them. This clearly means some people taking pay cuts - but that is only right. How can it not be when at present millions of working people require state benefits to top up their income and survive.
Wage distribution is completely wrong in the UK. Anybody earning well who argues I get the going rate for my job, I work hard and deserve my high earnings is wrong. The going rate is clearly wrong if it means others get so little they require state hand outs.

Wage structures need rejigged to negate any need for full time workers to claim benefits. If not it means, as well as those on benefits being labelled benefit spongers, then we are all guilty of leeching off the state - from the company boss, through upper and middle management, through skilled workers, to the menial staff.

We are all in this together.

Remember people - strength in numbers. POWER TO THE PEOPLE.

One-third of people in London live in poverty. Of those, two-thirds are working. That can't be right, can it? But all Boris Johnson is concerned about is preserving the bonuses of his banker chums.
 
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/10/under-boris-and-tories-london-becoming-divided-city?ico=%5Eeditors_choice

Thanks for the link, Ivan.

You are probably aware I've made an issue of wage differentials for some years.....since we were posting on MSN. I have posted my above post elsewhere too. I fail to see how there can be any doubt about the issue now.

The argument against a living wage is that it would simply mean prices of goods/services going up in order to pay for it....because companies would still want to make as much profit. That is why above I have proposed: Let's say a company has a £1million per month wage bill.....they should keep their wage bill at that amount and then: put the lowest paid worker on a living wage - one with no need for state benefits, and then share the rest amongst those above them.

Obviously the difficult part is convincing some people that it is entirely reasonable, and appropriate, that they take cuts to their salaries.

....at present wage structures/plans seem to be based on the premise of how much the few at the top rake in and then leave whatever's left to divided up amongst those below them. Wage structures should surely be planned the other way on - paying the lowest paid staff a living wage and leaving whatever's left to be divided up amongst those above them.

As long as Board members of public limited companies arrange their own salaries, the status quo will endure. It should be company shareholders who set the rewards.

THANKS TO TORY VOTERS IN 2010, EVERYBODY IS SUFFERING IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER FROM THE VERY SAME IDEOLOGICAL AGENDA, THAT OF A DWINDLING STATE CARE OF THIS RIGHT WING TORY LED COALITION WHO ARE USING THE DEFICIT AS A COVER TO WIPE AWAY ALL THAT WAS ACHIEVED AFTER THE SECOND WORLD WAR,

ALL THE SOCIAL REFORMS THAT WERE BROUGHT IN BY THE LABOUR GOVERNMENT UNDER CLEMENT ATTLEE THE TORIES WANT TO SMASH. INCLUDING THE PRIVATISATION OF THE NHS.  I’M WONDERING HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR DAVID CAMERON’S RIGHT WING TORIES AT THE GENERAL ELECTION OF 2010 ACTUALLY REALISED THE IDEOLOGICAL AGENDA THEY WERE VOTING FOR ?.....BECAUSE IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH REDUCING ANY SO-CALLED DEFICIT...THIS IS A MYTH THAT THE BBC MEDIA ARE COMPLIANT WITH.

PLEASE READ BELOW AND SIGN MY PETITION AT THE BOTTOM, TO HELP THE ELDERLY.

Cold kills 200 British pensioners a day during winter. Britain has 12 million elderly people.
“”Nine elderly people died every hour from cold-related illnesses last winter against a background of soaring energy bills.
Official figures show the number of deaths linked to cold over the four-month period reached
25,400 in England and Wales, plus 2,760 in Scotland.
Charities and energy company critics claim the UK has the highest winter death rate in northern Europe, even worse than much colder countries such as Finland and Sweden.
Winter worries: More than 300,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997
There are fears the toll could rise this year following a recent barrage of price rises that may frighten elderly people into not turning on their heating.
Heated issue: Pensioners see rising fuel bills and worry about whether they can afford to warm the house
While the UK death rate is high, the total was down by around 30 per cent compared with 2008/9 because there were fewer flu outbreaks, according to the Office for National Statistics.
The Coalition government has cut the last administration’s Winter Fuel Allowance payments of £250 for pensioners and £400 for those over 80, by £50.
ENERGY BILL RISES
Energy providers have announced big rises in prices this winter.
• Scottish Power is increasing electricity bills by 8.9 per cent.
• Scottish & Southern Electricity is putting up gas by almost 10 per cent.
• British Gas announced a 7 per cent rise on gas and electricity
Michelle Mitchell, director of the charity Age UK, said:'It’s still unacceptable that in this day and age tens of thousands more older people die in this country every winter from the effects of the cold weather.
'As another winter sets in, plummeting temperatures will once again spell misery, ill-health and, in some cases, even death for too many people in later life across the country.
'The simple fact that the UK has one of the highest winter mortality rates in Europe – higher than even Sweden or Finland – makes it clear this is very much a home-grown problem.
The fact is the UK’s elderly have seen their living standards plummet since the 80’s, and as a result millions of pensioners have and are living in poverty, after paying taxes and N.I. Contributions into the system all their working lives, ie for 30, 40, and 50 years. and the same thing is going to happen to young people also, if things don’t change for the betters, soon.
Please go to this link and sign my petition.  

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/71817

Thatcher broke the link between the state retirement pension and average earnings, and as a result the pension declined in real value. Labour brought in a series of measures to help the poorest pensioners, the most important being pension credit. Labour also brought in the so-called ‘pensioner perks’ of free bus passes, prescriptions and eye tests, free TV licences for the over-75s and winter fuel allowances.

It’s certainly true that on returning to power in 2010, the Tories reduced the winter fuel payments, but they have been careful to upset pensioners less than other groups. Tory researchers concluded that pensioners are the most likely section of society to vote and the most likely to vote Tory. As a result, the Tories have increased the state pension every year by either the rate of inflation or 2.5%, whichever is the higher.

On the other hand, the Tories know that people under the age of 25 are the least likely to vote and the least likely to vote Tory. This article tells you the rest:-

The young are the new poor: Sharp increase in number of under-25s living in poverty, while over-65s are better off than ever

Young adults and people in work are now more likely than pensioners to be in poverty in Britain……By contrast, pensioners have benefited from targeted policies, seeing a sharp fall in poverty to a record low level: from once being the most likely to be poor, the over-65s now have the lowest poverty rate of any age group.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-young-arethe-new-poor-sharp-increase-in-the-number-of-under25s-living-in-poverty-while-over65s-are-better-off-than-ever-9878722.html

We should never play the Tory game of ‘divide and rule’ and set one section of society off against another. Everyone in the 99% deserves a better deal, and the Tories’ cronies and donors in the 1% need to make a much bigger contribution. However, in the present climate, where some families are £2,000 a year worse off than they were in 2010, and when many NHS workers have been refused even a 1% pay rise, I can’t see there being much support for making pensioners a priority.

Since Margaret Thatcher in the 1980’s, the Tory agenda has been to deliberately diminish the State, cut welfare and privatise the NHS.  Since 2010 David Cameron’s Tory’s have continued with this Agenda.  Anybody who believes the Tory’s are incompetent, is not only foolish, but they are also giving way to the idea that the Tory’s don’t know what they are doing, and once people have that mindset, then people will not realise the reality that Tory Britain is all about hurting the poor for the sake of hurting the poor due to absolute Tory arrogance toward the poor.

Since 2010, the Tory agenda has been to cut welfare because the Tory's are ideologically opposed to the welfare State, this is why we have food banks across the country.  None of what the Tory’s are doing is about costs.  It is about arrogance towards the poor.

Since 2010 David Cameron has been using the deficit as a cover to dismantle the welfare State and the role of the State, but none of this reality is being picked up by either Labour Ministers; Lib-Dem ministers; or the BBC Media.

The BBC media is compliant.; The very fabric of the role of what the State should provide in tax payers money to welfare; services and State pensions; is being whittled away under cover of reducing the deficit; and there is no opposition to it.;

The Tory mantra of making painful cuts to reduce the deficit is little more than a smoke screen they hide behind to implement their ideology of reducing the size of the State; driving down wages; cutting benefits ect.;

Ivanhoe

I'm a lot more worried about cuts to the NHS, social care services and general public services, along with the effect of raising the retirement age for those in manual low skilled jobs, who are often physically damaged by their work (repetitive strain injuries, arthritis, heart and lung problems).

If we had decent public services and a generally more generous social security benefit system I suspect most pensioners would be nicely off without any really special treatment.

Speaking as a pensioner, I don't have the expenses I had when I was working (travel to work, work clothes, lunches out etc. not to mention mortgage payments) so I don't need as much to live on as I did when I was at work. I'm a bit worried, though, that when I get infirm and need social and medical care to keep me safe and comfortable, that care won't be there and I will die in squalor.

boatlady, This all started with Thatcher over 30 years ago, and the point of my posting is that none of what you rightly mention above is about costs, its all part of the ideological agenda of the Tory right wing.

Riches for the top, squalor for the bottom.

Ivanoe.

boatlady wrote:....

If we had decent public services and a generally more generous social security benefit system I suspect most pensioners would be nicely off without any really special treatment....

....I'm a bit worried, though, that when I get infirm and need social and medical care to keep me safe and comfortable, that care won't be there and I will die in squalor.

It would appear that the undoubted success of our NHS has created a problem of people now living far beyond the point at which they ceased to be economically active. But it's not a problem that receives sufficient attention from the government of the day or indeed the majority of working-age people who are choosing to live for the present now and worry about old-age if they get that far.

The practical solution of course is Voluntary Euthanasia, but there's no votes in THAT for an election manifesto.

The success of our NHS OW? yet this is despite the lack of real input from the Tory governments in real monies.
Staff that work without proper pay rises, inadequate staffing levels, increases in time waiting to be seen and treated in a+e, all this so it looks so bad that if the tories manage to sell it off and it becomes better people will think they were right, do the tories think we are stupid?

The answer, Stu, is to take Health out of politics altogether. It's a fundamental requirement of the human existence, but how can that be achieved?

If I knew the answer to that OW I would be in charge of the NHS without being an MP or having it privatised my friend.

take Health out of politics altogether.

The Tory Party opposed the formation of the NHS in 1948. It  has undermined it whenever it gets into power, it has politicians like Dan Hannan who called it "a 60-year mistake", while Oliver Letwin assured us in 2005 that the NHS would cease to exist after five years of a Tory government. The Tories are now being allowed by the Lib Dems to dismantle the NHS, fragmenting its services by giving enormous contracts to their friends and donors.

You can never take the NHS out of politics as long as one of the major parties is ideologically opposed to its very existence. After all, what finer example of socialism could you find than the principle of each getting health care according to their need?

Exactly Ivan, just sell it off and have done with it with the blues in power.

Often we can't truly appreciate the value of something until after we've lost it.

If you want to get a swift and painful practical illustration of how fortunate we are to have universal health services, try having a domestic pet which needs the expert attention of a Veterinary Surgeon!

Free at the point of need it's not.

Fortunately OW, I qualify for my pets to be treated at the RSPCA, but if it is out of hours it is damned expensive is it not.

Danniella tells This Morning she's homeless and using food banks


Former EastEnders star Danniella Westbrook appeared on ITV today to talk about her financial troubles. The actress revealed on Sunday, via Twitter, that she's living in sheltered housing after losing her Kent home and would likely be homeless for Christmas.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/gallery/danniella-tells-this-morning-shes-homeless-and-using-food-banks/ss-BBgu9my

oftenwrong wrote:Danniella tells This Morning she's homeless and using food banks

Nice to hear good news for a change .
Snort .
That being the operative word . Literally .

Matthew 7:1-3 (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Scary stuff.

With that black cherry/patakace, "Judge not, that ye be not judged"
Did your transexual operation cost much? or was it done on the NHS? AS YOU ARE A MAN NOW? and were a woman? very strange for posters to change their sex is it not?

Stu - please don't sink to personal abuse - not really the right style.
Much best to rise above?

OK boatlady if that is your wish, then please remind the other poster of the same, when it is done, many thanks.

Ad hominem attacks - never a good look - so far haven't seen the other party indulging but would of course also point it out.

I tend to think - if anyone's being contentious it's often better to ignore rather than rise to provocation

[quote="stuart torr"]With that black cherry/patakace, "Judge not, that ye be not judged"
Did your transexual operation cost much? or was it done on the NHS? AS YOU ARE A MAN NOW? and were a woman? very strange for posters to change their sex is it not? [/quote

Huge difference between  a judgement and recounting facts .
Regardless , making judgements is part of your waking  life on a near continuous basis .Don't be frightened by them .
Hitler was really a monster despite  you making a judgement about it .
The fact that some ancients wrote an unenlightened book thousands of years ago saying all manner of things , is hardly relevant .

For goodness sake , try and judge whether someone is clearly being ironic , sarcastic , light hearted  or  even humorous   --- or a whole combination of these things and more --- rather than literal .

And above all , worship the person who supports contentions with reasoned arguments and evidence .
It's the difference between moving forward and stagnation .

Austerity?
Success?
Maybe time to draw a line under the interpersonal stuff (you can always pm) and get back to the discussion

The two Western States that show a present healthy economy with all the signposts pointing in the right direction are the US and the UK .
Both used QE extensively .
Coincidence ?
Global experts seem split between their views of QE's benefits .
But how you partial out the effects of Austerity AND QE are beyond everybody --- apparently .
The one critical area where QE was used successfully was to help Banks partially recover in terms of capitalisation and to isolate toxic debts .
As I showed yesterday , this even stretched to the Federal Reserve aiding its own banking giants but also key banks in the EU . Our own Barclays group was a good example . necessary because Lloyds and RSB were effectively bankrupt . And probably the size of the total UK problem was beyond our financial capabilities to realistically address .

More bolts for the stable door.

Is that after the horse has bolted though OW?

oftenwrong wrote:More bolts for the stable door.

Facts are boring when your beliefs are fanatical . You and Stuart should become Labour Jihadists .

Yes boatlady, if you knew Thatcher's agenda from 1979, you would realise the ideological pursuit of the Tory's is a reduced State and everything attached to it, hence cuts in welfare, and privatisation of the NHS. None of this so-called austerity is about costs. This agenda is ideologically driven, and the cuts are being achieved under cover of reducing the deficit.

Ivanhoe

Oh patakace!! and you say that I follow you? when all you are doing is trying to get me banned by mentioning my name every time you post almost, and trying to ridicule me too, oh dear you must pick on someone else for a change soon as it gets quite boring.

Ivanhoe, thank you so much for getting us back on topic.

As I see it, the way austerity has worked over the last 4 and a bit years is,
1)  to get rid of thousands of decently paid and usually highly skilled public service staff who were all paying NI and tax,
2)  replace these jobs with a smaller number of lower paid jobs doing essentially the same in the private sector, but very often doing less of it and doing it less well - with the effect that those staff had less income and were therefore putting less into the system in the form of NI and tax
3) relying on the voluntary sector (that's pensioners like me who work for nothing) to plug the gaps - again no increase to tax or NI income for the State, while the public services people are receiving are less and less capable of meeting need. However highly skilled an ageing workforce has less energy and training and skills do go out of date
4) as there's less money going around the system, obviously people have less to spend on goods and services, squeezing the employers who employ sales  and service staff - this means these employers can't afford to employ as many staff and are keen to take advantage of zero-hours contracts, temporary working and any other means to prevent employees accruing workplace rights - so people working in the private sector often cannot earn enough to live on and need to claim benefits to supplement their earned income.
5) you further aggravate this situation by having a much larger number of people needing to claim benefits (both in-work and unemployed benefits) meaning there is a bigger strain on the state coffers
6)attempts to deny people essential benefits just makes them ill and then they need expensive health care


As far as I can tell, this is a recipe for a downward spiral of debt and dysfunction which has resulted in a larger national debt and a larger deficit - therefore, I would want to conclude that austerity is a stupid idea.
If it isn't a stupid idea, perhaps it is a very clever idea designed to transfer wealth from the State into the pockets of a very few very rich individuals - if that was the plan, austerity has delivered big time

boatlady, again I say this.  The deficit is being used as a cover to reduce the State, cut welfare to the bone, and privatise the NHS.  Austerity is just a media tag that we've all been sucked in by to tighten our good old British belts like good little boys and girls, the bulldog spririt to help one's country and all that crap  While those at the top laugh all the way to the bank.

Ivanhoe.

Nice to see you back Ivanhoe, and reading your good posts as usual.