Can God love? (Part 1)
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Can God love? (Part 1)
First topic message reminder :
Can God love?
We are told that the mythical bible God is love or the epitome of love.
Archetypal Jesus said that we would know his people by the love, deeds and actions they showed others.
Jesus gave us examples of the deeds and works. Feed the poor, love all our neighbours, do not sin and many others.
Love then, seems to Jesus, to be something that must be shown by deeds, actions and works to be alive and true love. Love, like faith, without works is dead. Both St. James and Jesus agree on this.
It follows then that if God is not doing something to show this love then the love for man expressed in scriptures is wrong and God cannot love.
You are in the image of God. When you love someone you show them that love by works and deeds. This is how the recipient of that love knows it is there and that allows for reciprocity. You will agree that without reciprocity, true love cannot exist between two individuals. We must do things for each other for true love to exist.
Imagine what those you love would think if you never did anything to express your love. Imagine what you would think of the love of others towards you if they never did anything to show they loved you. See what I mean. Love always must have deeds to be real and true and reciprocity must be at play.
Love then has no choice but to be expressed if it is true love.
We are told that God loved his son so much that he planned to have him sacrificed even before the earth was created. This human sacrifice or any other human sacrifice, voluntary or not, is immoral and the notion that it is good to sacrifice an innocent victim to give the guilty believers a free ride into heaven is a completely self-gratifying notion and is completely immoral. One does not show love for someone by having them sacrificed for the sins of others when God himself stated that we are all responsible for our own salvation and cannot put that responsibility of the shoulders of a scapegoat Jesus.
Does love need deeds and works to be expressed?
Have you seen God express his love for us lately?
Regards
DL
These following speak to this issue if you wish to view them.
[youtube]
Can God love?
We are told that the mythical bible God is love or the epitome of love.
Archetypal Jesus said that we would know his people by the love, deeds and actions they showed others.
Jesus gave us examples of the deeds and works. Feed the poor, love all our neighbours, do not sin and many others.
Love then, seems to Jesus, to be something that must be shown by deeds, actions and works to be alive and true love. Love, like faith, without works is dead. Both St. James and Jesus agree on this.
It follows then that if God is not doing something to show this love then the love for man expressed in scriptures is wrong and God cannot love.
You are in the image of God. When you love someone you show them that love by works and deeds. This is how the recipient of that love knows it is there and that allows for reciprocity. You will agree that without reciprocity, true love cannot exist between two individuals. We must do things for each other for true love to exist.
Imagine what those you love would think if you never did anything to express your love. Imagine what you would think of the love of others towards you if they never did anything to show they loved you. See what I mean. Love always must have deeds to be real and true and reciprocity must be at play.
Love then has no choice but to be expressed if it is true love.
We are told that God loved his son so much that he planned to have him sacrificed even before the earth was created. This human sacrifice or any other human sacrifice, voluntary or not, is immoral and the notion that it is good to sacrifice an innocent victim to give the guilty believers a free ride into heaven is a completely self-gratifying notion and is completely immoral. One does not show love for someone by having them sacrificed for the sins of others when God himself stated that we are all responsible for our own salvation and cannot put that responsibility of the shoulders of a scapegoat Jesus.
Does love need deeds and works to be expressed?
Have you seen God express his love for us lately?
Regards
DL
These following speak to this issue if you wish to view them.
[youtube]
Greatest I am- Posts : 1087
Join date : 2012-04-25
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Tsk tsk, just remember I'm watching this thread. Don't let the little jibes and barbs get the better of this discussion.
Shirina- Former Administrator
- Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
When discussion turns into a diatribe, much of the purpose has evaporated.
oftenwrong- Sage
- Posts : 12062
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
"I just don't appreciate liars"
I'm not keen on them myself although I find bigots to be worse.
I'm not keen on them myself although I find bigots to be worse.
Mel- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
I'm not keen on them myself although I find bigots to be worse.
There is nothing bigoted about science or disliking liars, go away and make up some more tripe about atheists knocking on your door.
I am here to debate facts not your fantasies.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
"There is nothing bigoted about science or disliking liars"
Who's talking about science or dislike of liars???
Who's talking about science or dislike of liars???
Mel- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
When discussion turns into a diatribe, much of the purpose has evaporated..
It depends which definition of diatribe you are meaning.
If people believe stupid things then its inevitable this reflects poorly on their intelligence.
My misson in life is to teach atheism and evolution to those that have the intelligence to recognise the differece between fact and fiction, those that are incapable of rational thought must be put to the sword.
Mel is a religious wacko who cannot defend religion and has to resort to telling lies, this is not grown up in my expert opinion.
Last edited by Tosh on Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Who's talking about science or dislike of liars???.
I am, you are telling lies and not talking about religion, which seems odd on a religious thread.
Maybe you are lost or confused.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Its really very simple, we have established tried and tested methods for identifying what exists, if you claim somethng exists without any methodology whatsoever then you are irrational bordering on backward.
Hiding behind morality and ethics does not alter this fact.
Hiding behind morality and ethics does not alter this fact.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
"Its really very simple, we have established tried and tested methods for identifying what exists, if you claim somethng exists without any methodology whatsoever then you are irrationa,l bordering on backward."
Well thats it then, end of story. Why bother to try to convince the "irrational, backward"whilst on such a high perch Tosh with no respect for anyone elses views?
Well thats it then, end of story. Why bother to try to convince the "irrational, backward"whilst on such a high perch Tosh with no respect for anyone elses views?
Mel- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
If someone came up to you and said your microwave was God breathing on your food to heat it, you would ridicule the person or phone an ambulance.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Well thats it then, end of story. Why bother to try to convince the "irrational, backward"whilst on such a high perch Tosh with no respect for anyone elses views?.
Firstly I do not assume everyone is backward or irrational, I tend to judge them on their beliefs after I have heard them. Secondly I do not respect stupidity or stupid views, do you respect Hitler's views ?
Eh ?
Now you are claiming I must show respect or deference to imbecillic views, and that my deluded friend is why this world is in its current mess.
You should be thanking me for preaching to the thick masses, I could just as well join my intellectual peers and feed the the masses the same bullshit to keep them silent and dumb.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
The moderate forms of religion make me puke up, they give credence to blatant voodoo nonsense, under the guise of kindness and comfort.
If you provide purpose to human beings then you are depriving them of finding their own purpose, and that destroys the true meaning of life.
If you provide purpose to human beings then you are depriving them of finding their own purpose, and that destroys the true meaning of life.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
One life and one consciousness, I aint wasting it on some immortal myth of purpose and meaning.
The effectiveness of this brainwashing is obvious, the Bile Belt is as immoral and as criminal as any secular region or country, religion has never worked, it just keeps the masses from demanding and achieving a better life.
The effectiveness of this brainwashing is obvious, the Bile Belt is as immoral and as criminal as any secular region or country, religion has never worked, it just keeps the masses from demanding and achieving a better life.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Tosh wrote:
Again. Your unqualified opinion is not worth a damn.
… liars and bullshitters…
… which part of a mesage forum do you have problems comprehending ?
… the retarded notion…
… self righteous, presumptious and sanctimonious cretin…
… liars.
… liars…
… go away and make up some more tripe…
… people believe stupid things then its inevitable this reflects poorly on their intelligence.
… those that are incapable of rational thought must be put to the sword.
… Mel is a religious wacko…
… Mel… has to resort to telling lies.
… you are telling lies…
… you are irrational bordering on backward.
… imbecillic views…
… brainwashing…
Tosh wrote:
… I have every right to ridicule those whose beliefs deny standard first grade common khowledge.
Your avowed right and implied intent to ridicule those whose beliefs do not meet your approval is again noted.
Guest- Guest
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
"You should be thanking me for preaching to the thick masses"
Hitlers thoughts entierly atheist "whacko"
Hitlers thoughts entierly atheist "whacko"
Mel- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Hitlers thoughts entierly atheist "whacko".
This is irrelevant to the point, do you respect his views or not ?? EH ?? EH ??? EH ??
Hitler was a Christian, the SS, Gestapo and all concentration camp personnel were Christian, it is fair to say Christians invented and promoted anti-semitism for nearly 2000 years.
But according to your malfunctiong brain it was all down to atheism, a simple disbelief in God.
Yeah, I am realy going to enjoy debating with you, if you are supposed to be defending polyglide and Texas from my barbs, you better get a bigger boat.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Texas,
Spamming the boards with repetitive drivel didn't help you in the debate you lost, suggest you try another tactic, like actually reading a science book.
Spamming the boards with repetitive drivel didn't help you in the debate you lost, suggest you try another tactic, like actually reading a science book.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
I fail to see the difference between being for or against religion and religious belief, I am not crying like a baby because you are not respecting my atheist and anti-theist beliefs.
Insisting on deference is nauseating to the extreme.
Insisting on deference is nauseating to the extreme.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Something we learned about Trolls on the old MSN board still holds true.
If you ignore them, they'll go away.
If you ignore them, they'll go away.
oftenwrong- Sage
- Posts : 12062
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
To be fair to creationists, theistic evolution is just as hair brained, it simply puts " God did it " in front of science and nature.
God created dinosaurs through evolution and then realized they had to be exterminated to enable the evolution of mammals and us of course ?
Then you have the space age woo-woo, the universe is just one big consciousness, anything to squeeze in immortality.
There is no end to this death denying garbage.
God created dinosaurs through evolution and then realized they had to be exterminated to enable the evolution of mammals and us of course ?
Then you have the space age woo-woo, the universe is just one big consciousness, anything to squeeze in immortality.
There is no end to this death denying garbage.
Last edited by Tosh on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Something we learned about Trolls on the old MSN board still holds true. If you ignore them, they'll go away..
I will ignore the spamming troll Texas as per your advice or do you consider his repetitive evasion a genuine debating style ?
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to die, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks
That Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; Ay, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes Calamity of so long life:
For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time,
The Oppressor's wrong, the proud man's Contumely,
The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay,
The insolence of Office, and the Spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his Quietus make
With a bare Bodkin? Who would Fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn
No Traveller returns.
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to die, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks
That Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; Ay, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes Calamity of so long life:
For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time,
The Oppressor's wrong, the proud man's Contumely,
The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay,
The insolence of Office, and the Spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his Quietus make
With a bare Bodkin? Who would Fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn
No Traveller returns.
oftenwrong- Sage
- Posts : 12062
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
I simply refuse to respect the views of someone with the IQ of a lettuce who insists God stuck a leg and toes on a whale for some hidden purpose.
How far can we stretch " God works in mysterious ways ", before the word " absurd " becomes redundant ?
How far can we stretch " God works in mysterious ways ", before the word " absurd " becomes redundant ?
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Oftenwrong,
Spit it out sweetie, spit it out.
Spit it out sweetie, spit it out.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Hitler was a fanatic, Self-righteous, confident of his own righteousness and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others. Perhaps mad and many of his henchmen were no doubt atheists.
Where I wonder do we see the reflection of this attitude on this thread?
Where I wonder do we see the reflection of this attitude on this thread?
Mel- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
I think it is time for me to take "sweeties" very good advise.
Mel- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Hitler was a fanatic, Self-righteous, confident of his own righteousness and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others. Perhaps mad
Hitler was a CHRISTIAN fanatic, a Self-righteous CHRISTIAN, confident of his own CHRISTIAN righteousness and had a CHRISTIAN intolerance of the opinions and behavior of JEWS.
" Perhaps mad ", yep, the atheist defence rests.
Where I wonder do we see the reflection of this attitude on this thread?
Texas and polyglide fit the bill, you aint too far behind.
and many of his henchmen were no doubt atheists.
Complete drivel, you are drowning here, Germany had as many atheists in the 30s and 40s as the Bible Belt, you need a lot of assistance to exterminate 6-10 million people.
Never read so much dross in all my days.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
I think it is time for me to take "sweeties" very good advise.
Mel,
The briefest of glances at your posts to me confirm who is trolling who here, your problem is I am just as adept and proficient at trolling as I am at debating religion.
I will not have my intelligence insulted by religious wackos trying to justify their primitive mindsets, it is fairly obvious modern science has killed Metaphysics and God.
Get over it and deal with it, do not shoot the messanger, he is a better shot than you.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Philosophy is based on logic and logic is based on knowledge, science establishes knowledge with evidence and the evidence is incontrovertible.
The universe and all its contents are an undirected outcome of physical cause and effect, it is deterministic and our physical consciousness is the sum of all these antecedent causes.There is not a shred of evidence to support a design or a designer, and any educated person in the 21 st century who believes one out of hundreds of ancient mythological tales is needing a psychiatrist.
The universe and all its contents are an undirected outcome of physical cause and effect, it is deterministic and our physical consciousness is the sum of all these antecedent causes.There is not a shred of evidence to support a design or a designer, and any educated person in the 21 st century who believes one out of hundreds of ancient mythological tales is needing a psychiatrist.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
The centre of civilisation is in Northern Europe and its as atheistic as you can get, it deals in secular values, rational ethics and employs reason not faith to build a better society.
polyglide lives on a different planet where morality is decreasing, unfortunately for her the figures don't lie, we set the barriers higher and higher every decade.
polyglide lives on a different planet where morality is decreasing, unfortunately for her the figures don't lie, we set the barriers higher and higher every decade.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
The state of Texas is famous for religion, guns and the death penalty, now there is a contradiction in terms.
THE MORAL HYPOCRISY OF THE BIBLE BELT
We hear an awful lot from conservatives in the Bible Belt and on the TV about how we all should be living. Certainly a culture that teaches the conservative religious values of the Christian right must have clean living written all over it. And lots of ripe fruit from their morally superior lives abounding.
It doesn't. Far from it. People that talk the loudest may be the ones walking the slowest. Joining its history of Biblically correct bigotry and discrimination, it is an area with the highest divorce, murder, STD/HIV/AIDS, teen pregnancy, single parent homes, infant mortality, and obesity rates in the nation. As a region, the Bible Belt has the poorest health care systems and the lowest rates of high school graduation. (See census.gov quick facts on right of census home page) The evangelical Barna Survey Group also tells us that conservative Christians have the highest rates of divorce of any religious group in the US. Atheists and Catholics had the lowest. NBationally, Massachusetts and Connecticut. those liberal northeastern states! have the strongest marriages.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Welcome all to the wonderful TOSH thread. Enjoy!!!!
Mel- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Welcome all to the wonderful TOSH thread. Enjoy!!!!
You certainly can't stay away and you are doing a very poor job of ignoring me.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
How can I stay away when you are so interesting my Lord?
Would I ever forsake thee my honerable meek and mild friend?
You concern me though as you seem to nothing better to do than to sit at the keeyboard. I hope you are not one of those lonely folk as that would explain and awful lot.
Would I ever forsake thee my honerable meek and mild friend?
You concern me though as you seem to nothing better to do than to sit at the keeyboard. I hope you are not one of those lonely folk as that would explain and awful lot.
Mel- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
You concern me though as you seem to nothing better to do than to sit at the keeyboard. I hope you are not one of those lonely folk as that would explain and awful lot.
Mel, I have been in a wheelchair these last 5 years, my wife passed away last year and we had no children, I still have my loyal dog allbeit stuffed.
I post because I am lonely and have nothing better to do, and it seems you are in the same boat, are you also crippled or are you trying to chat me up ?
I wear my heart on my sleeve and my underpants on my head, and it has been some time since someone massaged my Ajna Chakras.
Last edited by Tosh on Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Would I ever forsake thee my honerable meek and mild friend?
When someone says they intend to ignore me, I assume they mean to ignore me, you obviously speak with forked tongue, typical Christian.
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Tosh, you seem a lost soul.
Anyone can claim to be a Christian or anything else, the proof of the pudding regarding a Christian is the way of life they lead and not what one may claim to be.
Hitler was no more a Christian than you are the Archbishop of York, yet you could claim to be.
Tosh, you are a lost soul, if you have debated many things you have certainly not learned anything from doing so other than to spout a load of nonsense.
Anyone can claim to be a Christian or anything else, the proof of the pudding regarding a Christian is the way of life they lead and not what one may claim to be.
Hitler was no more a Christian than you are the Archbishop of York, yet you could claim to be.
Tosh, you are a lost soul, if you have debated many things you have certainly not learned anything from doing so other than to spout a load of nonsense.
polyglide- Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
Anyone can claim to be a Christian or anything else, the proof of the pudding regarding a Christian is the way of life they lead and not what one may claim to be.
polyglide my dearest, if a way of life was the sole criteria of a Christian then an atheist could be a Christian, this renders your proof as flawed.
Hitler was no more a Christian than you are the Archbishop of York, yet you could claim to be.
I have never claimed to be Hitler or the Archbishop of York, do you have your arms free and are you typing with your toes ? Both of these fine chaps believed Jesus was the "Christ " and he was resurrected.
Tosh, you are a lost soul, if you have debated many things you have certainly not learned anything from doing so other than to spout a load of nonsense.
polyglide, I am a sensitive soul and I am starting to get the impression you do not love me as your neighbour, are you sure you are a Christian ?
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
"Mel, I have been in a wheelchair these last 5 years, my wife passed away last year and we had no children, I still have my loyal dog allbeit stuffed."
As I thought Tosh and I am sorry you are lonely and perhaps bitter.
Fortunately or not for me I have 5 children two boys grown up, two teenagers, girls and a 4yr old late arrival boy. Two dogs, two shire horses, a pony and a parrot. Of course there is my lovely second wife 20yrs my junior.
How I find time to post here is puzzling.
As I thought Tosh and I am sorry you are lonely and perhaps bitter.
Fortunately or not for me I have 5 children two boys grown up, two teenagers, girls and a 4yr old late arrival boy. Two dogs, two shire horses, a pony and a parrot. Of course there is my lovely second wife 20yrs my junior.
How I find time to post here is puzzling.
Mel- Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08
Re: Can God love? (Part 1)
and perhaps bitter.
I am not bitter, I have memories, I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain......Time to die.
Last edited by Tosh on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tosh- Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15
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