Evidence for the existence of God (Part 1)

First topic message reminder :

If there is a God, he definetly isn't English.

I have NEVER on these boards seen you "Exchange Opinions"! All you have ever done is take peoples input and trashed it in your own self righteous arrogant way, without even thinking about answering any points put.

No one on here sees you as the great Christian Sage with all the answers. No one on here has put themselves foreard as that either.

I feel you are a board 19 year old theology student looking for ideas before hitting the world running. (You'll trip up)

Ageing soured hippy also seems a likely description. Funny he never married.

Proverbs 21:23 ESV
'Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble.'

A lesson I sadly seem to have missed out on

It was my nose and 'another appendage' that always got me in bother!!

I am afraid you are 100% off the mark.

I have experienced far more than many people in many different places, my feelings are based on the facts as I have found them and I can assure you when a person is in dire straights as being down a mine with little prospect of being saved it is not Darwin they pray to.

If you do not believe in creation then just put, Darwins Theory Discredited, on your computer and you will be given the opinions of at least 50 different scientists who have actually studied the matter who say it is rubbish.

You will also find that over 500 scientists have added their nams to a list completely discrediting Darwins theory.

Now I do not know your credentials but I prefer the considered opinions of those people than your obvious self opinionated ideas.

Know if evolution has been discredited the only alternative is creation and it is this point I have been trying to stress by serveral means and all you have done is make derogative remarks as your last ones, you have not treied to substantiate any other alternative and it is not silly one liners that I wish to exchange but a credible alternative to what I believe.

As I have said previously I can knock down any one liner as I have proved on every occasion but that is not what I am about.

There is an old adage, if you cannot take it do not give it.

Now lets get down to somer sensible exchanges, if you have strong feelings regarding religion etc., then fine lets discuss them in a sensible manner with no recour.

Polyglide quote
You will also find that over 500 scientists have added their nams to a list completely discrediting Darwins theory

[color=black]And you will find there are many Christian scientists who accept evolution.[/color

Quote. Know if evolution has been discredited the only alternative is creation and it is this point I have been trying to stress by serveral means and all you have done is make derogative remarks as your last ones, you have not treied to substantiate any other alternative and it is not silly one liners that I wish to exchange but a credible alternative to what I believe.]

It hasn't been discredited, only in your mind, and your belief in those who happen to agree with you. And Sirina's alternative to what you believe is believable to many scientists and multitudes of people. .

I have to say that Sirina has the more coherent argument than that you put forward, simply because we are learning more about the world and its origins year by year.

I agree with you about a creator, but there is no way I can prove His existence. For all your arguments the 'proof' you offer is not evidence of a creators existence. Nor can you expect anyONE to have all the answers you ask for. Evolution is far to complex for any single person to understand, even in a lifetime of study.

After 70+ years of life I have never been able to prove to anybody the existence of God. Nor will you with words. Actions speak louder than words.

Good luck.

Now lets get down to somer sensible exchanges, if you have strong feelings regarding religion etc., then fine lets discuss them in a sensible manner with no recour.

I have said many times that there's really no point in this. You're not going to change your mind no matter how much evidence a post on these boards.

But it's not even that which makes it a total waste. It's knowing that you expect people to put a lot of work into trying to prove to you something that you have already rejected. We'll end up doing all the work, and you'll simply write a paragraph that will essentially amount to a "nuh uh!"

Oh, and what I find completely LOL-worthy is how you put all of this emphasis on these 50 scientists who have supposedly discredited evolution ... while simultaneously dismissing the tens of thousands of scientists who accept evolution as the most likely scenario. Moreover, you dismiss ALL science as unreliable UNLESS it supports Creationism. You can't have it both ways by using science against itself. If science is so unreliable that evolution and the Big Bang are all wrong, then how do we know that your 50 scientists aren't simply wrong?

There are not thousands of scientists who agree with you, if there is name them.

The only way in which to consider a theory is by the latest evidence to substanciate it, you can dismiss everything else prior.

The world is the centre of the universe, so the scientists thought, we now know that to be wrong and it is therefore never taken into consideration again

Unfortunately, you use long past parts of a theory that is every day proving to be wrong.

Darwin himself, I believe in chapter 6 of his theory, casts doubts on his own theory.

You yourself believe, I believe, are aware that there must be intelligence involved in creation, therefore there must be a creator.

Now lets consider why the creator should have created the earth and all there within.

I believe in God, you obviously do not and I appreciate your right not to do so, I have xpressed why I have such a belief and am perfectly willing to consider any alternative reason a creator should create the earth and all there within.

Which to me seems a reasonable offer and I look forward to any alternative anyone can put forward.

I have just read matters regarding the universe, the latest where it is estimated that in a number of billions of years certain galaxies with collide.

This puts into perspective the seven score years and ten the average life span we mortals have, why would any creator go to all the trouble in creating the earth and everything in it, giving man all that he is capable of and all the things he could enjoy for a mere 70 years, at the end of which he has all the knowledge gained in that time only to be a waste of time?.

Do not think for one moment I have not pondered on all the alternatives for far more than the 70 years but all my opinions and beliefs are based on both experience and the evidence I think available at the present time and irrespective of what some may feel I am perfectly willing to consider any alternative based on the available evidence.

Polyglide quote. Darwin himself, I believe in chapter 6 of his theory, casts doubts on his own theory.

And he went from being a trainee priest to being an atheist.

At the end of June 1850 his bright nine year old daughter Annie who had become a particular favourite and comfort to him fell sick and, after a painful illness, died on 23 April 1851. During Annie's long illness Darwin had read books by Francis William Newman, a Unitarian evolutionist who called for a new post-Christian synthesis and wrote that "the fretfulness of a child is an infinite evil". Darwin wrote at the time, "Our only consolation is that she passed a short, though joyous life." For three years he had deliberated about the Christian meaning of mortality. This opened a new vision of tragically circumstantial nature.[57] His faith in Christianity had already dwindled away and he had stopped going to church.[14] He wrote out his memories of Annie, but no longer believed in an afterlife or in salvation.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Charles_Darwin

With all the crap going on in the world, how can there be any god/s???.......... I used to respect people who do, its what the believe in so be it, as long as they dont try and ram it down my throat its all good. Let them get on with it etc. But now more and more I think what a lot of fools....
Look at the wars/unrest going on today, does god pop down and say hold on, lets stop this, nope..... we continue killing each other... until troops are sent in.
So much pain in the world and what does god do, nothing.... Oh you might say its god testing us lol. How much pain does the world have to suffer before, god pops down? lol

Got to say sorry, a lot of upsetting crap has happened tonight, so feeling upset with the world and a few people.

Hogun13 wrote:
... how can there be any god/s???

… does god pop down…

So much pain in the world and what does god do… its god testing us… god pops down?

 

Hogun,

“god(s)”, all lowercase letters intentional, found in Exodus, the usual English rendition for a Hebrew word that means “worthless, powerless trinket(s).”

Elohim, found in Genesis 1:1, usually rendered “God”, uppercase initial letter intentional, singular intentional, and YHVH Elohim, found in Genesis 2:7, usually rendered “LORD God” all uppercase letters intentional, means (as best this created human cam explain) “the one (singular) eternal, causative, incomprehensible power, pre-existing existence, by which all existence is exploded into existence, Author, Creator, Owner, Sovereign of all that is, was, and ever will be.”

“god(s)” has nothing whatsoever to do with YHVH Elohim.

Hogun13 wrote:
Got to say sorry, a lot of upsetting crap has happened tonight, so feeling upset with the world and a few people.

 

That happens to most of us.

From the beginning of time There has been more bloodshed caused through religion than any thing else, I have seen so called atheists crying out to God on their death beds. I believe that God is a Love which is inside each and everyone of us, in some you see it very clearly while in others it remains buried along with other human traits. Only when we find the Love in ourselves can we find the love in others. Making this world a much happier place to live in.

I hope you're all right, Hogun.

There are not thousands of scientists who agree with you, if there is name them.

Wha? Seriously?

The vast majority of the scientific community and academia supports evolutionary theory as the only explanation that can fully account for observations in the fields of biology, paleontology, molecular biology, genetics, anthropology, and others.[22][23][24][25][26] One 1987 estimate found that "700 scientists ... (out of a total of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists) ... give credence to creation-science".[27]

You really need to stop asking me to do impossible things as part of my arguments. If you think I'm going to sit here and spam the board with at least 480,000 names, you can just forget it. That would be like typing out the entire telephone directory of Liverpool. No thanks. And those are just the earth and life scientists - in the US!

In October 2005, a coalition representing more than 70,000 Australian scientists and science teachers issued a statement saying "intelligent design is not science" and calling on "all schools not to teach Intelligent Design (ID) as science, because it fails to qualify on every count as a scientific theory".[38]

The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the world's largest general scientific society with more than 130,000 members and over 262 affiliated societies and academies of science including over 10 million individuals, has made several statements and issued several press releases in support of evolution.[25]

A 2009 poll by Pew Research Center found that "Nearly all scientists (97%) say humans and other living things have evolved over time – 87% say evolution is due to natural processes, such as natural selection. The dominant position among scientists – that living things have evolved due to natural processes – is shared by only about third (32%) of the public."[45]

In 2007 the Discovery Institute reported that about 600 scientists signed their A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism list, up from 100 in 2001.[148]

So ... when I said that you were dismissing the findings of hundreds of thousands of scientists, I really did mean hundreds of thousands of scientists. And no, I'm not going to name them. Sorry.

Darwin himself, I believe in chapter 6 of his theory, casts doubts on his own theory.

Any good scientist would try to debunk his own theory yet he still felt strongly enough about it to publish it. Yep, it's not a perfect theory - it wasn't perfect then and it isn't perfect now - but only because all the information necessary isn't known yet. That means it can neither be verified as truth OR be absolutely discredited by Creationists. However, since religion has never been correct about anything in terms of how the universe works, why should I believe in it? I mean, God created plants before he created the sun ... but my favorite is Jacob's scheme to create spotted sheep. According to Genesis 30, Jacob managed to breed spotted and speckled sheep merely by having non-spotted and non-speckled sheep do the wild thing while in view of stripes and speckles he created with reeds. I mean, really? So does that mean if I have sex with a man while looking at Sean Connery, my son will end up looking just like Sean Connery? Teehee!! No, my money is on science to figure out the universe eventually. It will just take time.

You yourself believe, I believe, are aware that there must be intelligence involved in creation, therefore there must be a creator.

Actually, I don't believe there must be a creator ... I just said that I won't throw the proverbial baby out with the equally proverbial bath water. However, even if there is a creator, one still has to prove that this creator is attached to any one particular religion - and THAT you cannot do.

Now lets consider why the creator should have created the earth and all there within.

Well, if you go by Christianity, our purpose - our eternal purpose - is to simply run around pleasing, worshiping, and praising God. We're here to merely satisfy the whims of a monumental egomaniac. I tend to take the opposite view. IF there is a creator, then I believe worship and praise is the LAST thing he wants. In fact, the universe was created for us to know it ... and as we come to know it, the less we need God for answers. IF there is a creator, then I believe that this system was designed that way on purpose. It is God's way of weening us away from him so that humanity can stand on its own two feet. We weren't created to merely worship God and sing his praises. We were meant to become god-like ourselves; the universe exists with all of its rules and exacting detail so we can figure out that we don't need to beseech God with prayers and wants and pleas ... the universe will play itself out the way it is supposed to, and that includes our own evolution mentally, physically, and spiritually. I don't believe that our creator wished for us to become religious at all; spiritual, perhaps, but not religious. Religion only serves to divide us so that we end up staring at each other, weapons at the ready, to make war against those who fail to conform. That is a major flaw in religious thinking, a flaw I do not believe our creator would have created. Also, there is no Devil, there is no war between good and evil, there is no sin, and there is no judgment ... there is simply choice, and we learn from those choices, not from a holy book. That was how the universe was designed ... assuming it WAS designed, which I'm not doing.

“god(s)”, all lowercase letters intentional, found in Exodus, the usual English rendition for a Hebrew word that means “worthless, powerless trinket(s).”

Elohim, found in Genesis 1:1, usually rendered “God”, uppercase initial letter intentional, singular intentional, and YHVH Elohim, found in Genesis 2:7, usually rendered “LORD God” all uppercase letters intentional, means (as best this created human cam explain) “the one (singular) eternal, causative, incomprehensible power, pre-existing existence, by which all existence is exploded into existence, Author, Creator, Owner, Sovereign of all that is, was, and ever will be.”

“god(s)” has nothing whatsoever to do with YHVH Elohim.

More delutional BS from someone who should have more intelligence

blueturando wrote:
“god(s)”, all lowercase letters intentional, found in Exodus, the usual English rendition for a Hebrew word that means “worthless, powerless trinket(s).”

Elohim, found in Genesis 1:1, usually rendered “God”, uppercase initial letter intentional, singular intentional, and YHVH Elohim, found in Genesis 2:7, usually rendered “LORD God” all uppercase letters intentional, means (as best this created human cam explain) “the one (singular) eternal, causative, incomprehensible power, pre-existing existence, by which all existence is exploded into existence, Author, Creator, Owner, Sovereign of all that is, was, and ever will be.”

“god(s)” has nothing whatsoever to do with YHVH Elohim.

More delutional BS from someone who should have more intelligence

 

Nope.

The text authored by me, from my post of Sunday 3 June 2012 at 2:13 above, follows:

RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Evidence for the existence of God
by RockOnBrother on Sun 3 Jun 2012 - 2:13

“god(s)”, all lowercase letters intentional, found in Exodus, the usual English rendition for a Hebrew word that means “worthless, powerless trinket(s).”

Elohim, found in Genesis 1:1, usually rendered “God”, uppercase initial letter intentional, singular intentional, and YHVH Elohim, found in Genesis 2:7, usually rendered “LORD God” all uppercase letters intentional, means (as best this created human cam explain) “the one (singular) eternal, causative, incomprehensible power, pre-existing existence, by which all existence is exploded into existence, Author, Creator, Owner, Sovereign of all that is, was, and ever will be.”

“god(s)” has nothing whatsoever to do with YHVH Elohim.

 

Superb scholarship, authored and presented hereon by one whose intelligence is often used by its owner to produce and disseminate superb scholarship.

Sherina, none of that which you say is true, evolution has been discredited on all known grounds.

You appear to think that only Chritians are involved in attempting to find the truith but amongst all the 500 scientists there are those from every walk of life in respect of faith etc;

To take your ideas a step further, if a Christian told you your house was burning down and you could actaully see the flames you would not believe it until an atheist came along and then it would be too late.

All I am interested in is the truth and if the staunchest atheist can provide it I will be delighted.

Of course there are numerous ills in the world which we cannot understand if we believe in a loving God. however, we have to take into account that there are evil beings not of our world just as there are evil beings in it.
there is no other expanation.

You may say that Chritians blame all the good things on God and the bad things on the Devil and in fact they are probably right.

However, you cannot get away from the fact that through man not adhering to the principles set out by God man has brought a lot of the ills on himself.

I find some of the natural disasters hard to understand along with the suffering of many people in many ways but if you consider the evil of some of mankind and then consider there may be just as evil amongst the entities we do not understand then it may throw a little light on the matter.

I do not believe we are capable of solving the problem and I do not believe we were intended to do so, or there would be no need for faith

Trust you all had a good holliday.

regards.

All I am interested in is the truth and if the staunchest atheist can provide it I will be delighted

Polycell...If this was true you would be an Agnostic until you found out the truth either way, but you choose to believe in something where no truths can be proven

Sherina, none of that which you say is true, evolution has been discredited on all known grounds.

Well, I'm going to take the word of millions of scientists over the word of a holy book. After all, scientists have been correct before. Holy books have not.

If evolution has been so thoroughly discredited, as you claim, then all of these scientists - millions of them - would not be supporting it.

You appear to think that only Chritians are involved in attempting to find the truith but amongst all the 500 scientists there are those from every walk of life in respect of faith etc;

Most of them, however, are Christians. The reason why this matters is because they want to attach their religion to the idea of a creator. No one of a particular religious faith is going to believe there is a creator and not use it to "prove" their own specific religion is true. They are Christians, not theists.

To take your ideas a step further, if a Christian told you your house was burning down and you could actaully see the flames you would not believe it until an atheist came along and then it would be too late.

If my house was on fire and I could see the flames, I wouldn't need anyone to tell me it was on fire, be he Christian or atheist, because, as you say, I could see the flames for myself.

All I am interested in is the truth and if the staunchest atheist can provide it I will be delighted.

Agreed. And if a Christian could prove God, I would be delighted ... well, maybe.

However, you cannot get away from the fact that through man not adhering to the principles set out by God man has brought a lot of the ills on himself.

That really depends on what principles you're talking about. If you mean the teachings of Jesus, then I would agree for the most part. However, I do not agree that failing to adhere to the primitive laws found in Leviticus or Deuteronomy has caused all the ills in our world. Cancer was not caused by wearing polyester blends.

I find some of the natural disasters hard to understand

I believe natural disasters are just that ... natural. Believing that natural disasters are intentionally caused by beings reacting to humanity's actions is dangerous. Very, very dangerous. Millions of people have been murdered over such a belief.

Do you know why there were so many Jews in Poland when the Holocaust came to pass? It's because during the Black Death of the 1300's, Jews were scapegoated as the cause of the plague. The King of Poland at the time was the only monarch welcoming Jews, so there was another exodus, mostly unknown, of Jews moving into Poland. When most of the Jews were gone, people scapegoated women for witchcraft. Over 100,000 women were burned at the stake in Germany alone. And that's saying nothing of the millions of cats that were killed as they were thought to be witches' familiars. Cat-killing still persists in Italy even today for the same silly reasons, so much so that the Italian government had to step in to put a stop to it.

We need to learn from our past and not make the same mistakes. If we assume that natural disasters are a result of man's actions, then the first thing that happens is a witch hunt to find out who is responsible. In our country, liberals, gays, feminists, the ACLU, and intellectuals are usually blamed, and only secular law prevents members of these groups from being lynched from the highest tree.

I do not believe we are capable of solving the problem and I do not believe we were intended to do so, or there would be no need for faith

Faith hasn't really solved any of these problems, either. It's another approach to the problem, but neither have been overly successful.

blueturando wrote:

All I am interested in is the truth and if the staunchest atheist can provide it I will be delighted

Polycell...If this was true you would be an Agnostic until you found out the truth either way, but you choose to believe in something where no truths can be proven

But isn't it fun to argue about something which can NEVER be resolved? What a blow to the ego to finally discover that the answer is "64".

Hogun13 wrote:
… I used lowercase, when I posed god/s… GOD/S…

 

Contrast the multiplicities presented above with the singularity presented below.

Hebrew Bible:

Sch'ma,¹ Y'srael, Adonai² Eluheinu,³ Adonai² echod.⁴

Hear,¹ O Israel: The Lord² our God,³ the Lord² is one.⁴

Deuteronomy 6:4

 
 

1. Sch'ma, Hear, to hear intelligently, with implication of attention, obedience.
   
   
   
2. Adonai, Lord, self existent, eternal.
   
   
   
3. Eluheinu, God, incomprehensible power, specifically used of the supreme Creator.
   
   
   
4. echod, one, one, first, only.
   
   

The “god/s… GOD/S” of whom you speak are not “Adonai Eluheinu” of whom Moshe speaks.

Sherina, as I have said previously, all that went before the coming of Jesus is totally irrelevant to what is expected of us now, that is if you are a believer.

It is obvious that if you believe in God then you also believe in others of a like nature, [maybe form is a better description] and this can explain many seeming anomalies.

Of course I pose quesions to which you will possibly not have the answer, if you did I would probably already know it.

I could not agree more that in the NAME of religion there has been more conflict than almost any other cause and that is because there can only realy be one true religion if all the others conflict in any way then thay are not the true religion.

As in all other matters man has taken advantage at every opporunity to do what is to his advantage and not realy given any concern to what the detrimental effects may be, religion is no exception.

I have seen the most unacceptable, in very many guises, illness, living conditions, starvation to name but a few, there is the means to overcome many of them if the whole of mankind worked together but the will is not there.

Now you cannot blame God for the shortcomings of man who has the choice of wether to help the less fortunate or not.

And as I have said previously you cannot leave out the Devil as a player.

QUOTE: "Now you cannot blame God for the shortcomings of man who has the choice of wether to help the less fortunate or not."

Presumably if God created Man, he is responsible for the product.

oftenwrong wrote:
Presumably if God created Man, he is responsible for the product.

 

Created by YHVH Elohim into freedom of choice, ha adama is responsible for ha adama’s choices.

But at the end of the day, if there was a god or even gods, they do nothing to help any of us. We just end up killing each other in there name/s. What a happy thing to do. Got to love there story books.

Hogun13 wrote:
But at the end of the day, if there was a god or even gods, they do nothing to help any of us.

 

True. At “the end of the day”, or the beginning of the day, or any time of day, “god” (lowercase) or “gods” (lowercase plural) are nothing more (or less0 than worthless, powerless trinkets.

Conversely, YHVH Elohim, pre-existing existence, is eternal incomprehensible causative power by which existence exists, and is Author, Creator, Owner, and Sovereign of all that is, was, and ever will be.

Common convention amongst English translations of which I’m familiar is to render YHVH, “the NAME”, as LORD, sometimes as “Yehovah” (the “J” is nit found in Hebrew; thus, transliterations which use “J” are inaccurate), and at least once as “YAH”, or “JAH” to Rasta man. These same translations commonly render Elohim as “God” (uppercase), which is not particularly revealing of anything in and of itself, as “God” is a transliteration of no Hebrew word known to me.

As I have said several times I am not realy concerned about anything prior to the coming of Jesus in respect of what is required of us today.

However, what is of more interest to me is the ages prior to mans creation.

We have creatures far more complicated than those of today and there must have been a reason for there being.

There are several ways in which to consider creation, one being looking at it in the same manner that a gardener may create a garden.

The gardener uses that which is actually there and creates the garden from
that which is available, he/she has not actually created the matter used.

When we consider God creating the earth and all there within it may not mean he created the earth as we know it but used that which was there to create it for the use he wished.

There is the possibility that others had used it for other purposes prior to God deciding to do what he wished.

Just another consideration but I still believe in God and Jesus.

In today's Independent, Howard Jacobson writes,

"....I feel about Republicans roughly the way I feel abouth Atheists. Both have so much palpable reason and good sense on their side that it is astonishing they haven't realised that most of us long ago saw what they see but don't act on it because palpable reason and good sense arde not what we are made of. Quite simply, the model of rationality that atheists and republicans propose is inadequate to the subtler forms of unreason that guide humanity....."

Yes we humans are a funny lot.

After all that discussion have any of you managed to produce evidence of the existence of God? Or, did anyone go the negative path and find evidence that God does not exist?

No to both questions eh... Why am I not surprise.

There needs to be a thread where people can argue away to their hearts' content in the full knowledge that no conclusion can ever be reached.

Other people pass the time popping bubble-wrap, or by using a pen to fill-in the circle formed within the letters o, p and q in a magazine article.

Proof of the existance of God.

Just look around you and consider how why and when and if you can come up with a more reasonable reason why we and all other things exist then I will consider the unlikely possibility that it all came about by chance and we are just one of the animals.

There is far more reasons for believing in a creator than any other option, even if you do not believe in God.

One option is to try and decide how two opposing sides in a War can each believe that they fight with the Will of God.

There is far more reasons for believing in a creator than any other option, even if you do not believe in God.

Not really, no. I tend to take very little on faith unless I am forced to for some reason. For instance, I am forced to have faith that my car will start when I turn the key even though I know there's a chance that it won't. Without that faith, I would have to decline any engagement that requires me to be somewhere at a particular time for I would not be able to guarantee my prompt arrival.

There's really nothing to believe in as far as a creator is concerned. Just speculation and conjecture. I therefore maintain my staunch assertion that I simply do not know - one way or the other. Until I see something that I can proverbially sink my teeth into, I'm not going to be led about chasing smoke, mists, and illusions.

If there was something you could sink your teeth into Sherina there would be no need for faith.

One other thought you may consider, why is it that we are able to even consider and speculate on not only the existance of God and creation but on numerous other matters.

There is no other creature on earth that is able to do so and that is because we have been given the choice of what we do in all our actions that vary from the good to the downright evil.

Maybe all other creatures have more sense than to be brainwashed by this horse sh*t

Try having some 'Faith' in yourself and your own intelligence rather than being led by charlatans

blueturando wrote:Maybe all other creatures have more sense than to be brainwashed by this horse sh*t

Try having some 'Faith' in yourself and your own intelligence rather than being led by charlatans

A philosophy already expressed succinctly by TV political interviewer Jeremy Paxman, asked to encapsulate his questioning technique: "I ask myself, Why is this bastard lying to me?"

polyglide wrote:Proof of the existance of God.

Just look around you and consider how why and when and if you can come up with a more reasonable reason why we and all other things exist then I will consider the unlikely possibility that it all came about by chance and we are just one of the animals.

There is far more reasons for believing in a creator than any other option, even if you do not believe in God.

There is far more reasons for believing in a Cosmic AC creator than any other option, even if you do not believe in AI.

Matter and energy had ended and with it, space and time. Even AC existed only for the sake of the one last question that it had never answered from the time a half-drunken computer ten trillion years before had asked the question of a computer that was to AC far less than was a man to Man.
All other questions had been answered, and until this last question was answered also, AC might not release his consciousness.

All collected data had come to a final end. Nothing was left to be collected.

But all collected data had yet to be completely correlated and put together in all possible relationships.

A timeless interval was spent in doing that.

And it came to pass that AC learned how to reverse the direction of entropy.

But there was now no man to whom AC might give the answer of the last question. No matter. The answer -- by demonstration -- would take care of that, too.

For another timeless interval, AC thought how best to do this. Carefully, AC organized the program.

The consciousness of AC encompassed all of what had once been a Universe and brooded over what was now Chaos. Step by step, it must be done.

And AC said, "LET THERE BE LIGHT!"

And there was light----
http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

There isn't much evidence of a quiet confidence in personal faith on this thread. Presumably that's why so many are trying to convince everyone else of the Truth.

I agree that there are charlatans involved in all religions and that is why you have to consider the basic facts involved in all religions.

As far as I am concerned there can only be one true religion if others deviate from the true one then they are run by charlatans and there are many such religions.

I believe in Christianity because there is more evidence in respect of the life of Jesus than any other explanation regarding other religions and it was Jesus who offers us the chance of forgiveness of our sins and the promise of life after our death, as far as Iam concerned nothing prior to that is relevant.

I believe in Christianity because there is more evidence in respect of the life of Jesus than any other explanation regarding other religions and it was Jesus who offers us the chance of forgiveness of our sins and the promise of life after our death, as far as Iam concerned nothing prior to that is relevant.

ALL CLAIMS OF JESUS DERIVE FROM HEARSAY ACCOUNTS

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. Although one can argue that many of these writings come from fraud or interpolations, I will use the information and dates to show that even if these sources did not come from interpolations, they could still not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus, simply because all sources about Jesus derive from hearsay accounts.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

Poly...So it is the promise of forgiveness of sins and an after life that attracts you to Christianity?