Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

by Talwar_Punjabi Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:45 pm

I am utterly dismayed and to say the least, distraught, that this sentence may be carried out. I do hope there is an international protest at this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/31/sudanese-woman-stoning-death-adultery?INTCMP=SRCH

by Adele Carlyon Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:48 pm

It's savagery, with a religious slant. It's appalling and sickening and it has no place on this earth, people who think this is right are simply not human beings! I hope that this is not carried out, it's an abomination!

by Guest Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:53 am

Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims
Intisar Sharif Abdallah tried without access to lawyer and is being detained with four-month-old baby, prompting outcry

David Smith in Johannesburg
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 31 May 2012 13.12 EDT

A young mother found guilty of adultery in Sudan has been sentenced to death by stoning, prompting an outcry from human rights campaigners.

Intisar Sharif Abdallah was tried without access to a lawyer and is being detained with her four-month-old baby, according to Amnesty International.

Amnesty puts Abdallah's age at 20; Human Rights Watch says she may be under 18.

Her family is appealing against the execution and it is unclear when it will be carried out.

Abdallah admitted to the charges only after her brother reportedly beat her. The conviction was based solely rests on this testimony. The man held with her reportedly denied the charges and was released.

Abdallah is said to be shackled by the legs and in psychological distress, unable to understand the nature of her sentence.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/31/sudanese-woman-stoning-death-adultery?INTCMP=SRCH

Sudan: Stop Stoning of Intisar Sharif Abdallah
June 1, 2012
Source: Violence is Not our Culture

Intisar Sharif Abdallah was sentenced by Judge Sami Ibrahim Shabo at Ombada criminal court in Omdurman on 22 April on charges of adultery, under article 146A of Sudan's criminal code.

Intisar was accused of having a relationship and becoming pregnant by a man who was not her husband. She was found guilty after an “admission of guilt” following torture and brutal beatings by her brother who instigated the case. According to reports, Intisar did not have access to a lawyer during her trial, and her accused lover remains un-convicted and walks free.

Intisar, who has three children, is being detained with her newborn baby.

Sudan is a State party to a number of international human rights instruments. It signed and ratified the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) in 1986. It has also signed and ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. A military coup in 1989 which harkened in the rule of its long-term and current president Omar al-Bashir introduced shari’a as the foundation of the country’s jurisprudence and penal laws; a move widely perceived by many in Sudan as a pretext for the growth in stronghold by religious fundamentalist forces in the government.

Take Action! If you want to take part in this action alert, please write immediately in Arabic, English or your own language to the following authorities:

[Sudanese government officials’ titles/names, addresses, emails]

http://www.violenceisnotourculture.org/Calls-for-Action/sudan-stop-stoning-intisar-sharif-abdallah

Update: Intisar Sharif Abdallah Released Unconditionally without Further Charge
June 22, 2012
Source: Violence is Not our Culture / SIHA.

Earlier this month we issued an action alert to stop the stoning of Intisar Sharif Abdallah* in Sudan. We are pleased to share the news from our Sudanese sisters who report that as of 21 June 2012, Intisar was released unconditionally and without further charges.

http://www.violenceisnotourculture.org/Calls-for-Action/update-intisar-sharif-abdallah-released-unconditionally-without-further-charge

Caring expressed through actions seems to work. Power to the People.

by Guest Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:53 am

It puzzles me that folks who hereon often verbally express respect for Muslims have never responded to this plea for compassion and aid from Muslim women. Perhaps those folks respect only “muslim” males, lowercase intentional, who kidnap, rape, torture, imprison, and stone to death Muslim women while simultaneously giving less than a tinker’s damn about fellow human souls who are crying across the oceans in pain and suffering as we recline comfortably protected from being kidnapped, raped, tortured, imprisoned, and stoned to death.

Snowyflake, if you are reading this, you are specifically loved by me because you care in word and deed about your sisters across the water who suffer heinous treatment from their fathers, brothers, uncles, and husbands.

by snowyflake Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:37 am

Thank you, Rock. Education and support organisations for muslim women and girls who wish to change their culture from within.

http://www.violenceisnotourculture.org/

http://www.equalitynow.org/

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:29 pm

Remarkable to encounter a person with so little guilt that he has room in his life to act as Keeper of Their Conscience to everybody else in the world. What a guy!

by Guest Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:59 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Remarkable to encounter a person with so little guilt that he has room in his life to act as Keeper of Their Conscience to everybody else in the world. What a guy!

Remarkable to encounter a person that gives less than a tinker’s damn about fellow human souls who are crying across the oceans in pain and suffering as he recline comfortably protected from being kidnapped, raped, tortured, imprisoned, and stoned to death. What a guy!

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:08 pm

Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims CdosColorchristdiedfforoursinsFULLYrevised

Wasn't that enough?

by Guest Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:23 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Wasn't that enough?

RockOnBrother, Saturday, 30 March 2013, 12:59

by snowyflake Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:17 pm

OW, what is your story? Do women and girls in other countries deserve basic human rights? Or do you think that's just for Western women and girls? Or is it none of our concern like Hitler was none of our concern? Please explain to me why you think this thread is racist in any way?

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:54 pm

I am sick to death of reading spurious "complaints" from the usual suspect BLEEDING HEARTS who will jump on any bandwagon that seeks to criticise the activities of different cultures.

The date of the opening entry on this thread is June 1 2012.

Within a month of that date, precisely on 4 July 2012, a further announcement from AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL stated that the person named in their earlier report HAD BEEN RELEASED.

Sudan: Further information: Sudanese mother walks free: Intisar Sharif Abdallah Index Number: AFR 54/029/2012
Date Published: 4 July 2012 http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/AFR54/029/2012/en

NOTE that the first COMPLAINT from our Security Manager a.k.a. RockOnBrother is dated eight months AFTER the woman named had been released.

APOLOGIES SEEM TO BE IN ORDER.

by Tosh Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:02 pm

I am no fan of Islam but there is nothing they are doing that was not done by bible thumping Christians, women's equality was not welcomed with opening arms by any Christian culture.

by Tosh Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:11 pm

A Muslim criticizes Islam at their peril, the price for being outspoken is a price too high, especially as demonstrated by Texas, each individual is convinced of their interpretation of scripture.

by Guest Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:57 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
I am sick to death of reading spurious "complaints" from the usual suspect BLEEDING HEARTS who will jump on any bandwagon that seeks to criticise the activities of different cultures.

You posted here (1) uninvited, (2) of your own free will, and (3) fully aware of the thread topic.

I am sickened to my soul by your callous support of Muslim women being kidnapped, raped, tortured, wrongfully imprisoned, and stoned to death in the 21st Century.

As my grandmothers, great aunts, mother, aunts, sisters, women and girl cousins of all degrees and “removes”, nieces, daughters, grandnieces, and granddaughters are all women and girls, I am thoroughly gratified that (a) their rightful status as full human worthy of always being treated with dignity, honor, respect, and deference, and (b) their unalienable human rights to equal protection under and of the law, are dependent upon neither your approval nor your permission.

by Tosh Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:06 am

I am sickened to my soul by your callous support of Muslim women being kidnapped, raped, tortured, wrongfully imprisoned, and stoned to death in the 21st Century.

Come on Texas, he pointed out your error, how does this make him a supporter ?

by Guest Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:23 am

Sudanese girl being whipped by male police officers at a Khartoum police station
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EVXRuAaCVlY#t=0s

by oftenwrong Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:53 am

There is probably a section of the community which appreciates someone trawling the web on their behalf for salacious examples of females being ill-treated.

But is this the right place to provide such a service? Just askin'.

by snowyflake Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:20 pm

But is this the right place to provide such a service? Just askin'

Where else, OW? If you don't like it you know where the door is. Some people are interested in basic human rights for all of the world's people not just the British. And we are interested in raising the living standards of women and girls and those muslim women who have organised at the risk of their own personal safety deserve our support, our respect and our help. And if you can't see that then you're an idiot.

Sorry, you being an idiot has already been established so I apologise for repeating the obvious.

by Guest Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:16 pm

None Of Us Are Free - Solomon Burke
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/87PJHQGAx38

by oftenwrong Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:35 pm

"Some people are interested in basic human rights for all of the world's people "

And some people are happy to exploit the gullibility of others for much less respectable motives.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Matthew 7.1

by snowyflake Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:08 pm

And some people are happy to exploit the gullibility of others for much less respectable motives.

Really? And what less respectable motives would that be, OW? And what is being presented here that implies that others might be taken in?

by starlight07 Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:38 pm

oftenwrong wrote:I am sick to death of reading spurious "complaints" from the usual suspect BLEEDING HEARTS who will jump on any bandwagon that seeks to criticise the activities of different cultures.

The date of the opening entry on this thread is June 1 2012.

Within a month of that date, precisely on 4 July 2012, a further announcement from AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL stated that the person named in their earlier report HAD BEEN RELEASED.

Sudan: Further information: Sudanese mother walks free: Intisar Sharif Abdallah Index Number: AFR 54/029/2012
Date Published: 4 July 2012 http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/AFR54/029/2012/en

NOTE that the first COMPLAINT from our Security Manager a.k.a. RockOnBrother is dated eight months AFTER the woman named had been released.

APOLOGIES SEEM TO BE IN ORDER.

Oh well, it wasn't a bad ending then. Good post.

by Shirina Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:39 pm

I do find it rather strange that OW usually just leaves a pithy comment and moves on.

But each and every time someone has posted an article about women being mistreated in the Middle East, OW has objected to it. Rarely does OW ever take a direct stand for or against anything - except in the case of mistreated women where he repeatedly and consistenly faults those who wish to help them and thus, through inaction, sides with the misogynists hiding behind "culture" to be criminal.

I wonder why this is?

by oftenwrong Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:21 pm

Perhaps you should wonder why people who cannot possibly influence the matters complained of nevertheless continue to beat their gums at the bidding of xenophobics.

I will always support positive action, but not the rending of garments or gnashing of teeth.

Incidentally there are some very tacky posters on this theme, and this theme only. Don't pretend you hadn't noticed, please.

by Tosh Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:35 pm

All cultures were misogynistic to a high degree, and some still are, I oppose such cultures and I do not accept unconditional multi culturism.

Horror stories are not required to highlight the weaknesses of the Islamic cultures, the most modern Muslim will not let their siblings marry outwith their culture. Islam intimidates those apostasy dreamers, if they leave Islam they leave their lives behind, its a form of emotional extortion or psychological abuse.

I don't care whether the majority of Muslim women are happy to be subservient, our laws must protect the rights of those who are unhappy.

by snowyflake Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:54 pm

Perhaps you should wonder why people who cannot possibly influence the matters complained of nevertheless continue to beat their gums at the bidding of xenophobics.

You have no idea how much influence is being used to improve the basic human rights of those in other countries. If you think that is racist then you are still an idiot.

I will always support positive action, but not the rending of garments or gnashing of teeth.

You haven't supported anything. You don't support basic human rights or the rights of women and girls. This is a multi-cross-cultural problem that can only be improved by education and the sharing of knowledge. The fact, that you, a man, should oppose it shouldn't surprise any woman on this forum. Why does it threaten you?

Incidentally there are some very tacky posters on this theme, and this theme only. Don't pretend you hadn't noticed, please.

I've noticed that the only thing you seem to support is the subjugation of women and girls.

by snowyflake Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:55 pm

Oh well, it wasn't a bad ending then. Good post.

Coming from a pampered princess living in a Western culture protected by Western laws.

by Guest Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:44 am

starlight07 wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:
[text]
Oh well, it wasn't a bad ending then. Good post.

As you proclaim that your Sudanese sister’s release, under international pressure, from wrongful, brutal incarceration to which she ought to have never been subjugated, your Pakistani sister, in what I believe is the native land of your immediate ancestors, recovers from an inhumanly vicious attack meant to exterminate her that was perpetrated against her in a school bus because she dared to publicly proclaim that all women, including Muslim women in Pakistan, possess the right to pursue education such as you received in the United Kingdom while under the protection of British and English laws.

Taliban shoot Pakistani schoolgirl campaigning for peace
By Jibran Ahmad
PESHAWAR, Pakistan | Tue Oct 9, 2012 3:46pm EDT

(Reuters) - Taliban gunmen in Pakistan shot and seriously wounded on Tuesday a 14-year-old schoolgirl who rose to fame for speaking out against the militants, authorities said.

Malala Yousufzai was shot in the head and neck when gunmen fired on her school bus in the Swat valley, northwest of the capital, Islamabad. Two other girls were also wounded, police said.

The Taliban set up courts, executed residents and closed girls' schools, including the one that Yousufzai attended. A documentary team filmed her weeping as she explained her ambition to be a doctor.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/09/us-pakistan-schoolgirl-idUSBRE8980EB20121009

Taliban Shoots 14-year-old Pakistani Schoolgirl
https://www.youtube.com/v/FEjhuoQ0x5A

Why the Taliban Fears Teenage Girls
By William J. Dobson
Posted Wednesday, Oct. 10, 2012, at 9:48 AM ET

… Malala Yousafzai, a 14-year-old girl and well-known advocate for female education, [yesterday was] shot in the head and neck on her way home from school. The Pakistani Taliban quickly took responsibility, claiming she was guilty of “promoting Western culture in Pashtun areas.” According to another girl injured in the attack, Taliban gunmen stopped their school bus. A militant asked which girl was Malala, and then opened fire.

A teenage girl speaking out for girls’ education is just about the most terrifying thing in the world for the Taliban. She is not some Western NGO activist who just parachuted into Pashtun country to hand out ESL textbooks. She is far more dangerous than that: a local, living advocate of progress, education, and enlightenment. If people like Yousafzia were to multiply, the Taliban would have no future.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/10/10/taliban_shoots_14_year_old_girl_here_s_why_malala_yousafzia_scares_them.html?tid=sm_tw_button_toolbar

As you further characterize as a “Good post” a post that, in the name of “culture”, implicitly supports suppression and brutalization of your Muslims sisters by “muslim” males, your sisters are crying across the oceans, but their sister hears them not.

None Of Us Are Free - Solomon Burke
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/87PJHQGAx38

Well, you’d better listen my sisters and brothers,
Cause if you do you can hear,
There are voices still calling across the years,
And they’re crying across the ocean,
And they’re crying across the land,
And they will till we all come to understand

None of are free,
None of are free,
None of are free,
One of us is chained,
None of are free

Solomon Burke

by Shirina Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:22 am

Perhaps you should wonder why people who cannot possibly influence the matters complained of nevertheless continue to beat their gums at the bidding of xenophobics.

I think it's the label of "xenophobic" that is the main point of contention I have with your reasoning. As you may know if you have read my past postings is that I'm a stickler for non-fallacious arguments. I used to be on a "professional" debate team in college, and numerous logical fallacies were metaphorically "beaten" into my head.

One such fallacy I have mentioned before, the "Hitler ad Nazium" fallacy, is in evidence here. This fallacy, using Hitler as an example, asserts that because Hitler was evil, everything Hitler did, said, or touched is also evil. Of course we know that isn't true. Committing genocide against the Jews does not render Hitler's love of animals as somehow evil.

In your case, it is xenophobics rather than Hitler that has you at odds with many of us on the forum. Whether or not those reporting these crimes against women are haters of Islam is irrelevant. What matter is: Do these crimes occur? The answer is yes, they do. Xenophobic or not, the atrocities committed against women have happened, and that, all by itself, independent of trying to kill the messenger, is reason enough to speak out against it.

There are many, many things that all of us discuss on this forum that we have no direct power to change, whether it's corruption in government, the widening gap between rich and poor, the rate of unemployment, etc. etc. it still stands that each post written by anyone here outraged by stonings and floggings of women have been met with an undue amount of criticism.

"All it takes for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke

True words, my friend.

by starlight07 Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:49 am

The change should come from within any community ... as for being a pampered princess, I can assure you I am not at all pampered. Personally I am against death penalty for any reason whether it is issued by religion or law.

by Tosh Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:30 pm

The change should come from within any community ...

How does change come about when the community laws forbid change and kill those who try ?

by snowyflake Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:18 pm

The change should come from within any community ...

The websites posted are from women within muslim communities. Why OW opposes supporting these women is beyond reason. He has yet to explain his reason. Criticism is warranted when Islam is being used in such a way as to uphold cultural abuses.

Everyone deserves to live their life in freedom with the right to speak, criticise, publish those practices that deny basic human rights. Cultural/religious differences is not an excuse to abuse, subjugate or prevent access to education for women and girls around the world.

as for being a pampered princess, I can assure you I am not at all pampered.

If you say so.

Personally I am against death penalty for any reason whether it is issued by religion or law.

Good for you.

by boatlady Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:42 pm

I'm joining this discussion with a little trepidation because I know how high emotions rise in relation to these issues.
It seems to me that the issue of oppression of women in Muslim countries is really difficult for us in the West because we are not there, we have no direct personal knowledge of these events, they take place within a cultural and social setting that we do not always fully understand, and, most upsetting and frustrating of all, we are, by and large, powerless to do anything about them.
Thus, it seems to me, we suffer from a form of 'survivors guilt', which can lead to some very ill-natured and unpleasant exchanges, as well as some very rigid and unhelpful attitudes.
OW is often accused of not caring, of supporting the abuse of women - I'm very sure that isn't the truth - he does, however, want to debate the issues and to raise a critical and questioning voice in the debate, which is often what I would like to do.
In a lengthy discussion via pm on this forum the following accusation was levelled at me :-

you excuse, apologize for, and thus implicitly support this and similar acts of brutal extermination perpetrated by bestial male life forms upon powerless, innocent women right now in Muslim nations from Somalia to Saudi Arabia to Afghanistan.

This was an unwarranted attack, by someone who knows little about me, and was based simply on the fact that I was not in full agreement with every detail of opinions expressed by them.
I seems to me that people are trying to engage with this discussion, but unless they are completely going along with the rhetoric and the 'party line' no-one wants to hear what they have to say.
Like every one of you, I am outraged, distressed and angry about what seems to be happening to women in some parts of the world; however, my options for making a difference are limited, and do depend on actually understanding the issues. For this, I do find the critical and also the sometimes naive cvontributions to be just as helpful as the impassioned rhetoric of those who have made their minds up. I would be very pleased if those people also freely had their say.

by Tosh Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:04 pm

Misogyny existed before religion, it is an unfortunate relic of our evolution( might is right), it appeals to the primordial instincts of the dominant male and the subservient female. Some cultures supported by religious text promote the basic roles of provider and breeder, in this context paternity is key, a woman is in no doubt who is the mother, not so the father. These old moral codes demonize the female instinct to breed to protect male paternity claims, there is some evidence that females may have bred with many men and the fittest sperm killed the weaker sperms. It certainly explains why all religions are so anti-female and anti-sex.

On the other hand if a woman wants to be provided for and sees her purpose in life is to breed and support her partner, then no one can claim this is misogyny. As long as the culture promotes freedom of choice then no harm no foul, Islam does not promote female equality and there are little choices for women.

by Tosh Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:29 pm

When you worship fertility ( see Venus of Willendorf), one is in effect worshiping sex, it is possible that the cro-magnon hunter-gatherer cultures of 30-10,000 bce were " gang bang " cultures.

Environmental conditions in Europe may have been so harsh that males competing against males for sexual selection may not have been feasible. Maybe a cultural compromise arose whereby the limited number of women had sex with many partners one after the other, and the fittest sperm survived.

It would explain why men enjoying watching porn more than women and why women fantasize more about gang bangs than men.

Once urbanisation kicked in, human behaviour became our biggest survival threat, and human nature is dominated by sex.

Anyway carry on.

by snowyflake Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:56 pm

Like every one of you, I am outraged, distressed and angry about what seems to be happening to women in some parts of the world; however, my options for making a difference are limited, and do depend on actually understanding the issues. For this, I do find the critical and also the sometimes naive cvontributions to be just as helpful as the impassioned rhetoric of those who have made their minds up. I would be very pleased if those people also freely had their say.

OW accuses people on this forum of racism when what is happening is warranted criticism. Just because cultural attitudes are the norm in some societies does not make them ethical or moral. And OW does not want people to interfere in other people's lives. He believes it is none of our business.

You are very wrong if you think you can't make a difference. You can. It just takes a bit of effort. Both of the websites that are posted and numerous other websites can put pressure on governments and judiciary to repeal a death sentence such as stoning. There are people on the ground, lawyers and other advocates who fight very hard for these women who are sentenced to death mostly for sexual "crimes". OW would have us mind our own business and turn away. Other women are raped and then jailed for adultery, kidnapped and forced to marry their kidnapper who is also often their rapist. Child marriage, paedophilia, female circumcision and other horrific things that are done to girls and women for the simple fact of their gender.

I see you have a soft spot for OW and that is commendable but he is wrong if he thinks that people should just mind their own business. Every person has a right to live a happy life with their human rights respected. Women and girls in some countries live a life of utter subjugation without benefit of education and are just there as breeding machines. There is more to women than this. We are lucky in the West. We have choices and we have the law to support and protect us when men behave badly. Not so in some countries.

I'm all for a nice discussion, boatlady, but when one poster accuses another of racism, that will put the binders on any discussion.

by snowyflake Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:59 pm

Also, boatlady, although it is not a rule as such: Messages in pm are meant to be private and not shared with the rest of the board. That's why they are called private message.

by **Ivan** Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:57 pm

Hello snowy. It’s good to see you here. Smile

You’re correct in saying there is no written rule that the contents of private messages shouldn’t be disclosed on the open forum, but not to do so is a matter of etiquette. However, in boatlady’s defence, she hasn’t named the author of the clip which she posted to illustrate how strongly people feel about the issue under discussion, so no real harm has been done.

What was inexcusable was when an administrator displayed the whole of a private email on her forum, and when a member who sprayed adverts all over Cutting Edge then circulated to all and sundry the email telling him to refrain from such pursuits.

Regards,
Ivan

by Tosh Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:11 am

And OW does not want people to interfere in other people's lives. He believes it is none of our business.

Nonsense, never met a commie yet who doesn't want to interfere in the lives of others.

by oftenwrong Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:16 am

Who dat?

Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims 251-53

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