Is there any alternative to the jaundiced Tory attitudes?

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Depressing, isn't it? All the miserable gits can come up with is oppression of the poor and fear of the disadvantaged. Never mind, here's something that can make us all feel better about the human race - even if it does have to include Cameron and Company .........

http://www.buzzfeed.com/expresident/pictures-that-will-restore-your-faith-in-humanity

Redflag, you did not mention though the other post that Mel posted, that he could not see why the more fickle of the labour voters would be voting labour, and that was because it was not left enough?
Also not getting the help from the media, which is pro tory anyway.

The Tories never stop showing us what nasty and spiteful people they are. We’ve recently had Cameron removing two of Theresa May’s special advisers from the approved Tory candidate list – because they wouldn’t break the civil service code and campaign in the Rochester by-election.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-told-theresa-mays-advisers-to-break-civil-service-code-9934589.html

That was after Cameron had promised Mark Reckless that he would “kick his fat arse out of Westminster”, although that didn’t quite work out as planned. Now the Tories, who thanks to Russian oligarchs and hedge fund managers have a war chest of £78 million, are showing what bad losers they are by suing Reckless for the paltry sum of £3,000 spent on election material with his name on it before his defection to UKIP.

I suspect the Tories won't get very far with that one. Unless Reckless signed a contract accepting liability for any expenses incurred on his behalf in the event of him withdrawing as their candidate, I don't think they have a case. But this also begs the question: why were the Tories printing election material so far in advance of next May’s general election? Was it a ruse to try and circumvent the rules on election expenses incurred during the campaign itself?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/18/ukip-mp-mark-reckless-sued-tories-wasted-campaign-expenses

If there are any Election Laws to be circumvented, be assured there will be examples on display between now and next May. The current administration is very far from being confident of overall victory.

Hence extra toilet rolls on order for number 10?

I think Tories already know that they will not get a majority gov't in May 2015 stuart, because us up North will not be voting Tory after what they have put them through in the past 5years.

In truth nobody North of the Watford Gap, plus QT comes from Watford on Thursday we will find out then what Watford thinks about the Tories & Lib-Dems.

No arguing from this poster Redflag.

Michael Gove has shown his utter contempt for us, so let's make his career a car crash

From an article by Alison Phillips:-

"73 seconds. A tiny sliver of time, but all it takes to show what Michael Gove thinks of the rest of us. Utter contempt. The Tory chief whip has no qualms about spending around £110,000 of taxpayers’ money getting himself ferried on journeys as ludicrously short as 400 metres or 73 seconds. You could hop that in three minutes flat. With a broken leg.

But Gove’s issue isn’t physical incapacity. It’s mental incapacity... to understand why his behaviour is so entirely reprehensible and morally wrong. All over Britain essential services are being scrapped - meals on wheels, day centres for the disabled, libraries and post natal classes. Vital jobs are being cut - police, teaching assistants, carers for disabled children. But Gove finds the cash necessary for a chauffeur driven limo, newly acquired for his position.

The Tories lied when they said we were all in this together. Those with the most - like Gove, the bankers and tax evaders - continue to enjoy life in the chauffeur driven fast lane. Even when they fail they are rewarded. He was demoted in the cabinet reshuffle after alienating virtually every teacher in the land as education secretary. He’s not even a government minister now – but this arrogant politician still gets to lord it over the rest of us in his fancy Jaguar.

Let’s hope the time he has left to enjoy his expensive perk is almost as short as his journeys. On May 7 we have a chance to show what we think about those with power and influence who treat the rest of us like mugs. If there is justice it will be then Gove’s career faces an almighty great car crash."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/michael-gove-shown-utter-contempt-5148770

I think Ivan there was another gov't MP that did the same thing taking a Limo when it would y taken him a couple of minutes to walk to where they where going, I do not know if it was a Lib-Dems or a Tory can you remember this incident ??

Yes he used it in his house to take him to the toilet.

The Tories Black and White Ball
I’m sure some of you will have read about this. Extraordinary! The media are estimating that around £3 million was raised in one night. Auction prizes included deer stalking, shooting 500 pheasants, shoe shopping with Theresa May and £210,000 for a bronze statue of Margaret Thatcher! Even HSBC got in the frame as one of the Conservatives’ big donors, Richard Caring, supplied a night at Annabel’s nightclub with a £20k bar tab thrown in. It appears that austerity has managed to bypass these wealthy benefactors.

This was stated by Stephen Lloyd Lib Dem MP Eastbourne.
I managed to get the extract from one of his news letters.

We will read nothing about this in the Tory press, now will we?
I wonder why!!!!!!!!! Also, where are the headlines that HMRC are big doners to the Tory party?

Mel it was in the daily mirror, yesterday or the day before, that is why I put on the other thread that labour could raise funds by shooting 500 Tories to save a pheasant/partridge.

They use to sell their slaves off too going back in years did they not bobby.

bobby wrote:Hello Mel, it reminds me of when the Tories auctioned off apprenticeships to the sprogs of the wealthy to work in some of the biggest finance houses.

Bobbyin todays Daily Mirror of a photo of Suggs and he is hitting the roof about it, but cannot do anything about it because the photo belongs to the photographer he can do whatever he likes with his so-called property.

Here we have two of the most vicious criminals the UK has ever seen. The other photo shows the Kray twins.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B90d5YCIgAAWnXt.jpg

Your picture is spot on Ivan, I do not think you could not find two nasty bandits than those 2 on the right.

Absolute corker Ivan.

Without a record of delivery, the Tories are reliant on Crosby's campaign of division

From an article by Lucy Powell:-

As we approach an election that will determine the future of our country, David Cameron is leading a party of the past. A dark tide of negative campaigning heralds the return of nasty politics by the nasty party. The Tories are offering the British people nothing but a failing plan based on an outdated and damaging philosophy that national success depends on the success of a privileged few at the top with working families dragged along behind.

This is no surprise given Lynton Crosby is running the Tory campaign. And running it he is. Crosby campaigns are known for relying on personal attacks and a politics of fear. He has been described as "employing ruthless attack politics", deploying techniques that "dig out feelings of prejudice, fear, selfishness", and running campaigns described as "very nasty". Crosby directed the 2001 Australian federal election which was tainted by an incident in which the campaign falsely alleged that immigrants were throwing children overboard to gain access to Australia.

When Cameron talks about the choice at the next election remember the sight of Tory cabinet ministers lining up to back ‘The Daily Mail’ in attacking Ed Miliband's late father. The Tories cannot run on a record of delivery so they are running a campaign of division. They have raised election spending limits to give them maximum advantage with their elite donors. They changed voter registration rules, which has shut young people out of voting. And now they are relying on attempts to slur their opponents.

For the whole article:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/without-record-delivery-tories-are-reliant-crosbys-campaign-division

Time for Ed to get some character assassination in on Cameron in retaliation. Can't be difficult!!!!

True Mel, would have thought it would be quite easy don't you?

Time for Ed to get some character assassination in on Cameron in retaliation. Can't be difficult!!!!

Getting it publicised may be less easy - and I'm not sure I'd want the whole election to be fought on those lines - may be more powerful in the longer term just to quietly refute all the lies and misrepresentations

Very true boatlady.

Getting anything Labour orientated is difficult. However, when Ed retaliated to Cameron on PM's questions with force and anger, Cameron seemed to have no answer and went into his shell. Tories play dirty boat lady, especially Cameron with the backing of that animal Crosby advising. IMO it is time to get tough and show the public exactly what a tyrant Cameron is.

I think you're right - just don't see how it's to be done

At any rare opportunity, boat lady, including PM's questions. The Tory press/media will feel compelled no doubt to highlight as an attack on Cameron and in so doing it will get public notice. A lttle risky, but it would show Ed as a less of a Mr nice guy that people may feel is too weak to be PM.

Mel I agree Ed Miliband is too nice a person to use the tricks that Davy boy is using, the last PMQs when Ed hit back with some of Davy boys own medicine but he did not like it he was heard saying Ed had been rotten to him today POOR DIDUMS he can give it but cannot take take it typical VILE Tory.

Yes Red, Ed's got to come out of the red corner and give that con man Cameron a bloody nose and quick and often so that it gets media coverage.

But you know Mel the bloody right wing media will not report it in truth they would turn it back on Ed and the Labour party saying that the Labour party are using dirty tricks against the Tories.

"Enough to live on" sometimes depends on how many non-executive directorships you can sustain whilst also "serving" as an MP.

Ivan wrote:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-uDISaXEAAwsAS.jpg

and of Rachel Reeves had any sense she'll point this out on Question Time tonight. Unfortunately I don't jet advisers give a damn about poor.

Mel wrote:Yes Red, Ed's got to come out of the red corner and give that con man Cameron a bloody nose and quick and often so that it gets media coverage.

I agree Mel heaven knows Davy boy has given him enough ammo to knock davy boy out cold, along with the LYING spivs that are behind him.

Exempting the NHS from TTIP is not good enough. The whole thing must be opposed. It is a disgrace. Do you really want a situation where a tobacco company can sue the government for introducing measures such as the government's own plain packaging ideas. Whether or not plain packaging is any good or not is not the issue either. The corporations can sue the government on the grounds of limiting their profits. What happens when councils that ban fracking are forced to either pay huge sums of compensation or allow that decision to be overturned? FFS get a grip, Labour is yet again offering no solution at all. the WHOLE thing is pernicious and disgusting.

Paid jobs for the unemployed youth? You mean forcing kids into government slave labour schemes, just like the Tories. If they refuse? If they want to do something better than picking up litter after lazy scum they will get sanctioned. Will labour ban sanctions?

let's have some ***king answers for once!

Quote Ghost "Labour is yet again offering no solution at all"

Wait and see, you won't get all the Labour proposals yet.
In any case it will be Tories or Labour who will be in charge after the election therefore there is no other party in sight and in view of this situation better to vote Labour even if they are only going half way to what you desire. Better than letting the existing tyrants back in via the back door by voting for a fringe party.

Mel wrote:Quote Ghost "Labour is yet again offering no solution at all"

Wait and see, you won't get all the Labour proposals yet.

They have had five years.

Vote UKIP then and get nowhere and probably another Tory government. Is that what you want Ghost?

I wonder if he ever goes without?

You tell me if there are any alternatives to the Tories?

I've asked and was insulted for doing so. None here can address policy questions regarding welfare and instead maintain that poor dear Rachel Reeves wax unfairly misrepresented, something else proven.

We all have our opinions, based on information that we access - as I understand it, the purpose of a DISCUSSION forum is to share information and discuss what we think it means.

Others may have access to other information and may share it - still others may interpret information in a different way, and may hope to provide evidence or information that will back up their position. That's where the interest comes from - the sharing of differing viewpoints in the attempt to understand a greater range of opinion and to acquire new knowledge.

I think to date you have made your position perfectly clear as regards the performance of the Labour party in opposition, and some members have indicated that they agree with some of the things you say; however, at the moment most seem to be of the opinion that the Labour party performance has been good enough to warrant our continued support.

You have raised the issue of the things Rachel Reeve may or may not have said, that may or may not have been misquoted or quoted out of context - I think some evidence has been presented that mostly we are prepared to accept that she was indeed misquoted. The way to continue that discussion would be to find and present evidence to show against Ivan's evidence - perhaps you could ask Rachel Reeve herself what she said and what she meant?

What is not within the scope of a discussion forum is the kind of bullying that we have seen from you - it is not our place to 'address policy questions' to your satisfaction, nor are we here to help you complete your political education - each member of the forum is entitled to express their own opinions and explain the grounds on which they hold them - on condition that they do so without abusing or trolling or deliberately derailing the discussion so as to ridicule another member. It's also common courtesy, if you have presented your argument, and someone has said they don't agree, to either restate your argument with courtesy and providing new information in support, or to withdraw - after all, if someone doesn't agree with you it's not going to kill you, is it? - you can afford to agree to differ.

This thread has been going on for a while and involves a fairly wide-ranging and often light hearted discussion - I suggest you look at some of the other posts and refrain from trying to spoil it for people.

Is there any alternative to the jaundiced Tory attitudes?
Yes, I would say so - the attitude that acknowledges that every human being is a creature of almost infinite potential and in a perfect world would be supported and encouraged to achieve her or his potential, through free access to the necessities and graces of life in the form of housing, food, medical care, education, arts and anything else that would help a person develop into a fully integrated soul - in a perfect world, that is what I would like to see, and I will happily debate the details of that with anyone who wants to - but we live in England and this is the 21st century and we have a government which is systematically destroying much of what makes England an OK place to live - so for now I will be talking about what is possible to happen between now and May 7th that might prevent the complete wreckage of all hope for the less prosperous and less fortunate members of society - because as I said earlier everyone has potential and everyone should have help to achieve their potential - not just the 1% which is all the present government are interested in.

I'm not asking for opinions. I'm asking for labour policy.

If you want to provide an alternative then provide evidence of labour's policies. So far there hasn't been anything - and we already know that Labour increased the brutality of the benefit system during it's time. That isn't opinion it is fact.