Is there any alternative to the jaundiced Tory attitudes?

by oftenwrong Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:56 pm

Depressing, isn't it? All the miserable gits can come up with is oppression of the poor and fear of the disadvantaged. Never mind, here's something that can make us all feel better about the human race - even if it does have to include Cameron and Company .........

http://www.buzzfeed.com/expresident/pictures-that-will-restore-your-faith-in-humanity

by tlttf Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:09 pm

What a charming thread OW, never had you down as anything other than a cynic, particularly liked n0 4. Smile

by oftenwrong Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:33 pm

With a government denying that it has any responsibility for the disadvantaged, cynicism is the default setting, Landy.

by Adele Carlyon Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:01 pm

Aw! What lovely pictures. The one of the man giving the girl his shoes just made me cry my eyes out. Makes you wonder why some people would want to do things to hurt others, when it can take as little as a few seconds to put a smile on someones face.

Why do the Tories want to hurt so many people who never do any harm to anyone? The disabled, the unemployed, the young, the old, the poor?

by **Ivan** Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:15 pm

Adele. It's because they're the nasty party and they can only implement their evil philosophy if they divide and rule us. They set working poor against unemployed poor, private sector workers against public sector workers, old against young, homeowners against tenants, and taxpayers against those on benefits. Now they're trying to create regional differences to divide north and south even further. They're so barking mad (deliberate pun!) with their policies that they're now privatising police dog handlers, all to move us further down the road towards corporate fascism, as so well described in Naomi Klein's 'The Shock Doctrine'.

The light at the end of the tunnel is that Toryism in Britain is dying. The Cons haven't managed to win a general election, or more than 36% of the vote, in the last twenty years, despite all their money from big business and corruption and their support from media magnates. This report from Jon Trickett MP contains all the good news:-
http://clients.squareeye.net/uploads/compass/documents/COM1671_Tories%20report_WEB%20Final.pdf

by Adele Carlyon Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:26 pm

Thanks Ivan, I'll go and have a gander. I need something positive to hang on to.

by trevorw2539 Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:32 pm

Adele quote.
Why do the Tories want to hurt so many people who never do any harm to anyone? The disabled, the unemployed, the young, the old, the poor?

For the very reasons you mention. They're disabled, unemployed, young, old and poor.
There are only 3 things they support. The rich, the rich and those with money.

Now I am being cynical aren't I. Aren't I?

I don't necessarily agree with everything Ivan has said, but he has made out a good case that I wouldn't argue with. I just happen to believe some of the points he makes are the result of actions, rather than the reason for them. Either way, if it sees the end of the Tories, it doesn't really matter. cheers

by **Phil Hornby** Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:54 pm

In so many circumstances there is great good in humankind. Those who support or promote a Tory philosophy are the very antithesis of such goodness -as we can now see so clearly.

As ow suggests, cynicism is the defence mechanism in the face of the spite, arrogance, greed and hatred which so epitomises the hard-nosed Tory. The Tory attitudes in 2012 are the mark of vermin and they deserve no respite from the opposition they so warrant.

If there is a Hell, it must look like a packed house at a Tory Conference...

by astra Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:33 pm

Now they're trying to create regional differences to divide north and south even further.

Cameron and Clegg said not so long ago that "There is no such thing as a North / South divide in Britain!

Now they are saying there is?

Phil, the Tory Conference will be in a packed telephone box in the moors above Goathland or RibbleHead!

by astra Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:42 pm

Now they're trying to create regional differences to divide north and south even further.

OW's "Law of Unexpected Consequenses!"

All of the 'undesirables' will now be flocking to the South, so leaving us in the North in peace Laughing

All of those chased out of the caravan site to wreck Team Valley, will be coming back to youse!
All of the "FAT" people being chased out of Essex are coming back, where they can get more Galaxy for their buck!!

You couldn't make it up! (Sorry)

Wot?

Theyre going to have armed "Community Police" in sentry boxes on every road out of every city?

Rolling Eyes

by trevorw2539 Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:03 pm

Astra quote.
Theyre going to have armed "Community Police" in sentry boxes on every road out of every city?

Absolutely. I've volunteered, though I've never fired a flintlock musket before. Laughing

by astra Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:50 pm

Is there any alternative.............

BLOOMINWELL HAS TO BE!

Forget care in the community!
have a look, your feelings WILL be interesting
£480.00ish for one person per week

A couple of interviews, smile nicely and speak calmly - our resident vicar has a flying chance

http://www.gateshead.gov.uk/DocumentLibrary/Care/Adult-Care-Leaflets/Shared-Lives-Carer-Info.pdf

How on earth can this be cheaper to run than the "haunted hoose on the hill", I mean, instead of the nuses and medico's running from ward to wrd, they are now low flying (blues and twos) all over the place!

by sickchip Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:00 pm

Shelter reports that if prices rose as fast as rents since 1971, a chicken would now cost £47.51.

See there are lots of nasty, selfish, and greedy people here in the UK - for decades they've been pricing future generations out of a roof over their head - something one would imagine a civilised society would consider an essential right for all it's people.....but apparently not here in the UK.

Ask yourselves - are you one of those people? Neutral

by astra Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:07 pm

Ever think we are going back to the Alms Houses, Chip?

Meet you at Lindisfarne monastry, plenty fish and gannet, tern and seagull eggs this time of year!

by oftenwrong Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:24 pm

If we are going to adopt the"Monastic" metaphor, a lot of today's complainers will have something to say about the idea of working for your supper.

Getting up at 4 a.m. for prayers then spending the day gardening to grow food or tending the cattle, followed by a "supper" of bread and beer would cause a revolution.

by Adele Carlyon Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:30 pm

I totally agree Sick Chip. I have to move into a rented house as soon as I sell this house, as me and my husband split up two years ago. The thought of having to pay rent to some greedy bastard turns my stomach. And the thought of the house not being mine is very upsetting. I'm hoping that I can get a morgage on my part time hours as I'll have a decent-ish deposit. If I rent my money won't last two minutes and I'll have nothing to show for it, plus renting will cost me £250 a month more than having a morgage again. I'm worried sick about where me and my boy will end up. I just feel scared stiff of everything lately. Sad

by oftenwrong Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:40 pm

The stark truth is that the main driver of house-purchase is to acquire enough to support retirement. A reliable Insurance policy would replace the need to struggle for a mortgage.

by Adele Carlyon Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:22 pm

I need a house that's mine, not that's someone elses and not guaranteed. I don't want a place that I can't change and put my own stamp on, a place where I'm not allowed to take my cat with me. No, I'll try and buy a little place for me and my boys. plus when i pop me clogs they can flog it and squander my hard earned house! lol

by Redflag Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:11 am

Ivan wrote:Adele. It's because they're the nasty party and they can only implement their evil philosophy if they divide and rule us. They set working poor against unemployed poor, private sector workers against public sector workers, old against young, homeowners against tenants, and taxpayers against those on benefits. Now they're trying to create regional differences to divide north and south even further. They're so barking mad (deliberate pun!) with their policies that they're now privatising police dog handlers, all to move us further down the road towards corporate fascism, as so well described in Naomi Klein's 'The Shock Doctrine'.

The light at the end of the tunnel is that Toryism in Britain is dying. The Cons haven't managed to win a general election, or more than 36% of the vote, in the last twenty years, despite all their money from big business and corruption and their support from media magnates. This report from Jon Trickett MP contains all the good news:-
http://clients.squareeye.net/uploads/compass/documents/COM1671_Tories%20report_WEB%20Final.pdf

How very true your post is Ivan, just got to look and listen to what is being said in your own area to see the Tory Ideology divide and rule, Toryism died in Scotland around 50 years ago T.G. Just lets hope the next time a Tory leader tells us they have CHANGED from the Nasty party to the caring CONS the entire UK will lol!

in there face.

by sickchip Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:18 pm

Adele,

The sad truth is that these days two incomes are generally necessary for most people to get, or sustain, a mortgage - if you're on median, or even average wages it's difficult on your own.

Property should never have been allowed to rise in price so much. Laws should be introduced to put a ceiling on the annual % rise in property - put it at the same as wage inflation...lol.

I refer you to my above post, and the stat, which demonstrates not only people's personal greed, but how people have prospered by a false economy that has been based on escalating property prices.....some have done very well out of it for many years but ultimately it's been detrimental, lazy, easy money that has yielded nothing, left nothing, and disenfranchised today's generations. Property in the UK has been over- valued by profiteering bastards (basically everybody who bought into getting a mortgage and was thrilled when prices escalated massively in a short period of time)), and property is simultaneously undervalued for what it should provide all citizens with in a civilised nation - a roof and a home / somewhere to relax without worry or stress (but when paying for it eats up over half people's incomes or they need to claim housing benefit because of derogatory wages that are impossible to live or function on without state aid....how can that place be stress free?).

Shelter reports that if prices rose as fast as rents since 1971, a chicken would now cost £47.51.

by betty.noire Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:00 pm

Suppose we could borrow loads of money from China, so we could import loads of goods from China, so everyone felt they were "well off", and the cheap credit meant that they could borrow money by remortgaging their houses so they could buy expensive German cars, oh and open the floodgate so anyone could come here and work cheap.

Opps, New Liebour already did that, better move this to the history board Laughing

by Stox 16 Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:58 am

sickchip wrote:Adele,

The sad truth is that these days two incomes are generally necessary for most people to get, or sustain, a mortgage - if you're on median, or even average wages it's difficult on your own.

Property should never have been allowed to rise in price so much. Laws should be introduced to put a ceiling on the annual % rise in property - put it at the same as wage inflation...lol.

I refer you to my above post, and the stat, which demonstrates not only people's personal greed, but how people have prospered by a false economy that has been based on escalating property prices.....some have done very well out of it for many years but ultimately it's been detrimental, lazy, easy money that has yielded nothing, left nothing, and disenfranchised today's generations. Property in the UK has been over- valued by profiteering bastards (basically everybody who bought into getting a mortgage and was thrilled when prices escalated massively in a short period of time)), and property is simultaneously undervalued for what it should provide all citizens with in a civilised nation - a roof and a home / somewhere to relax without worry or stress (but when paying for it eats up over half people's incomes or they need to claim housing benefit because of derogatory wages that are impossible to live or function on without state aid....how can that place be stress free?).

Shelter reports that if prices rose as fast as rents since 1971, a chicken would now cost £47.51.

Cannot agree more with this Sick Chip. one of the greatest mistake in my view is the very fact that our economy has been based the housing market and this has distorted the UK economy like nothing else. its lead to personal borrowing that has got out of all control, its my own view that housing is a bomb waiting to go off. as it just cannot go on like this.

by tlttf Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:06 am

We should remember that Shelter (worthwhile charity) is labour party funded, so they don't necessarily show the whole truth, surely the biggest problem is that interest rates for mortgages were set by the Banks and have now been found out to manipulated to maximise the banks profits (this didn't happen over night). Meanwhile the lefties are so busy blaming the Tories they haven't quite noticed the incompetence of all the politicians and th fact that this was overseen by the Labour party, who chose to do nothing when they had the chance.

by Mel Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:35 am

sickchip wrote:Shelter reports that if prices rose as fast as rents since 1971, a chicken would now cost £47.51.

See there are lots of nasty, selfish, and greedy people here in the UK - for decades they've been pricing future generations out of a roof over their head - something one would imagine a civilised society would consider an essential right for all it's people.....but apparently not here in the UK.

Ask yourselves - are you one of those people?

Absolutely correct Chip.

!"Ask yourselves - are you one of those people?" You bet there are chip, one or even two I suspect. Rolling Eyes

by oftenwrong Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:44 am

tlttf wrote:We should remember that Shelter (worthwhile charity) is labour party funded, so they don't necessarily show the whole truth ...., lefties are so busy blaming the Tories they haven't quite noticed the incompetence of all the politicians and th fact that this was overseen by the Labour party, who chose to do nothing when they had the chance.

Ahhh, the old ones are the best ones, aren't they? The Labour party chose to do nothing but of course the real alternative would have been nationalisation of the Banks. I wonder why Tony and Gordon didn't do that small thing?

To paraphrase the vapid opening sentence, We should also remember that the majority of Britain's newspapers are Tory-funded so they don't necessarily show the whole truth either.

by **Ivan** Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:44 pm

We should remember that Shelter (worthwhile charity) is Labour Party funded

No. Shelter is funded by the taxpayer to the tune of £3 million a year via the Department for Communities and Local Government. I think your confusion arises because Shelter's chief executive Campbell Robb once worked for the Labour Party.

by **Phil Hornby** Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:23 pm

"....confusion arises ..."

A regular trick to employ if there is no benefit in reflecting the truth. After all, after so much practice it must be hard to exit 'smear mode' ... Shocked

by oftenwrong Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:22 pm

Confusion can also arise when lazy people don't do their homework.
But that's what makes our discussions colourfully readable.

by tlttf Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:51 am

Not sure about my maths OW, however 21% of £53 million works out at more than £3million using the basic arithmetic I was taught at my local secondary modern. But hey.... maybe that's how the banking fraternity sets it's interest rates, nobody were all screwed!! bounce

by oftenwrong Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:12 am

tlttf wrote:Not sure about my maths OW, however 21% of £53 million works out at more than £3million using the basic arithmetic I was taught at my local secondary modern. But hey.... maybe that's how the banking fraternity sets it's interest rates, nobody were all screwed!!

Is that a calculation based on something I've posted on this thread? I am not understanding intention, Sorry.

by Mel Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:16 pm

Works out at £11,13 million. I am also confused OW although i'm sure the "intention" is good.

Confused again ----"nobody were all screwed!!" Question

by Ivanhoe Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm

Adele Carlyon wrote:Aw! What lovely pictures. The one of the man giving the girl his shoes just made me cry my eyes out. Makes you wonder why some people would want to do things to hurt others, when it can take as little as a few seconds to put a smile on someones face.

Why do the Tories want to hurt so many people who never do any harm to anyone? The disabled, the unemployed, the young, the old, the poor?

Because the right of the Tory party are arrogant Adele. They are not so different from the Nazis.

by witchfinder Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:43 pm

There is a well known saying "the tip of the iceberg"

What the general public do not understand is that there are Conservative MPs who genuinely wish to abolish the minimum wage, totaly privatise the NHS, do away with housing benefit completely, slash public spending way beyond the present cuts and abandon virtualy all employment rights.

The general public are naive, most do not understand what hard-line tory dogma is realy about, many people who voted Conservative genuinely believe that the Tories care about ordinary people.

by oftenwrong Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:24 am

I stick to my opinion that the Tory Party are the equivalent of an invading army.

Time to mobilise the Home Guard again.

by Mel Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:47 am

HELLO WITCHFINDER, GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE cheers

by Mel Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:49 am

"Time to mobilise the Home Guard again."

Trouble is OW the "Home Guard" is still in bed fast asleep. Sad

by trevorw2539 Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:39 am

Mel wrote:"Time to mobilise the Home Guard again."

Trouble is OW the "Home Guard" is still in bed fast asleep.

Where, oh where are you, Col. Montmorency. The Home Guard needs you. Smile

(Noel Coward song)

lyricsplayground.com/.../songs/.../couldyoupleaseobligeuswithabreng (Noel Coward song)

by Ivanhoe Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:28 am

witchfinder wrote:There is a well known saying "the tip of the iceberg"

What the general public do not understand is that there are Conservative MPs who genuinely wish to abolish the minimum wage, totaly privatise the NHS, do away with housing benefit completely, slash public spending way beyond the present cuts and abandon virtualy all employment rights.

The general public are naive, most do not understand what hard-line tory dogma is realy about, many people who voted Conservative genuinely believe that the Tories care about ordinary people.

The left of centre small "c" Conservative party prior to the Thatcher era did have a social conscience.

Thatcher changed all this when she took that party to the right.

I believe the people you mention arent aware of that change. Yes the general public are terribly naive about politics. No they dont understand what hard line Tory policies are all about.

At the last general election and due to the Thatcher/Major years, I myself was genuinly shocked and surprised that Cameron's right wingers got any votes at all. I often wonder if any of those people who voted for Cameron, wish they had'nt. ???

by tlttf Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:35 pm

I do, however as they're the only party able to shift the troughites it was a case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

by Ivanhoe Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:43 pm

tlttf wrote:I do, however as they're the only party able to shift the troughites it was a case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

"I do" ?

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