De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

by ROB Thu May 09, 2013 9:02 am

Nazi Collaborators : Viktor Arajs 1/3
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/xrD93IW17Ss?ytsession=W6TeokfI2nx2ChFK-sIBDXnXwBim0k3oyBbesTqsD8coi-AdWpqL88G77mmv-JcLZ2r1EvfXRiNUG7iogghIMj1e_338uCnAaVGU9lF74mUFVwpge427Q9WZ_0bRlVrzD3In-Xw9K4fWxM9Ua0MAdQ

Nazi Collaborators : Viktor Arajs 2/3
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/q3BtqKKLM-Q?ytsession=jK02NEzIL2qRIhEOYqC0btqtulQwQm5thZOSGHRoU-NuKADMsKHsn4gYyshtPBm94om2HXUffh9K-Ep2DvQu1MYg55NbiLFryogzF29UaLY6AV68o97uputpCfxZ9uDRtNX5htpyAS7xHCHlPTXxzg

Nazi Collaborators : Viktor Arajs 3/3
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/M1Jmc9DZOc0?ytsession=wAjRg-nfqCIEzvKpqFWAwwemJOQ6Ee9JSszLjpO45iq-8wODxu-slOo0oT-MK3uZ7nq7nvbDoQgtH45njf5HuERg0QUHO06VtjR2Sk7PWh4RQE7kJNhFDC4fXhFRu3Qkuw3wpF_SvQjggLNCyTbE4w

21st Century Europeans seem to have forgotten their direct ancestors’ past atrocities; the mass extermination of Jews by Jews’ own countrymen, by Jews’ neighbors.

As German forces overran Europe, non-Germans of the conquered territories rushed forward to completely and thoroughly cleanse their countries of Jews. Why? Because they were Jews. These “patriotic” Europeans were bot coerced by Nazis to perform these despicable acts; on the contrary, they eagerly volunteered, feeling secure enough under the Nazi umbrella to do so boldly.

Europeans share a continent-wide shame for all but erasing Jews from a continent wherein Jews once numbered nine million, about one half of the eighteen million Jews in existence world-wide at the time.

by boatlady Thu May 09, 2013 10:07 am

Although Jews were one of the groups to suffer under right wing mentality, please let's not forget that the Nazi's and their sympathisers also attempted to exterminate Eastern Europeans, homosexuals, anyone with a disability, Gypsies, and other groups.
I believe in Treblinka, where the death toll was at least 900,000, the Jewish victims were not in fact in the majority.
'DeJewification' was indeed a rallying cry, but the aim was ethnic, not religious cleansing, I believe.
We have indeed, in modern society, forgotten, by and large, the terrible lessons of the Nazi era, and several more recent examples of ethnic cleansing are to be recounted from very recent history.
I sometimes wonder if human beings are hard wired to hate and fear strangers.

by ROB Thu May 09, 2013 10:42 am

Y’shua bar Yosef, Y’shua Moshiach (Hebrew names), Jesus son of Joseph, Jesus the Christ (Anglicized Greek names) was, as is apparent by his original names, a Jew.

James, an apostle of Jesus, was a Jew.

John, an apostle of Jesus, was a Jew.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus, was a Jew.

Paul, an apostle of Jesus, a student of Gamiel, was a Jew, a Jew among Jews.

Mary, mother of Jesus, was a Jew.

Mary Magdalene, a disciple of Jesus, was a Jew.

That’s kind of the “Big Seven”, an appropriate number, given the symbolic meaning of seven, “perfect” or “complete.” All were Jews, “evah las’ one of ‘em”, so it’s beyond comprehension how so-called “Christians” that have the audacity to say that they follow Jesus the Jew could hate Jews so much that, given the opportunity to do so, they eagerly set about exterminating every Jew they knew or knew about.

Jesus was also the Son of David, the mighty Israeli King, who, as a member of the Tribe of Judah, was a Jew.

by boatlady Thu May 09, 2013 10:52 am

no, sorry, you've lost me - thought we were discussing 20th century history

by oftenwrong Thu May 09, 2013 12:22 pm

Is RoB Jewish? The treatment of Jews seems to worry him, as indeed it should worry all of us, since you can never tell which part of Society will be reviled by other parts of Society at any given moment.

But reprinting little snippets is not going to change anything. Pogroms on the Jews began at least eight centuries ago in Europe. Researchers can find more than enough written evidence, so what's new, Rock?

by ROB Thu May 09, 2013 3:04 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Is RoB Jewish?

Ich bin ein Jude.

oftenwrong wrote:
The treatment of Jews seems to worry him…

Ich bin ein Jude.

oftenwrong wrote:
Researchers can find more than enough written evidence, so what's new, Rock?

Nazi Collaborators : Viktor Arajs 1/3
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/xrD93IW17Ss?ytsession=W6TeokfI2nx2ChFK-sIBDXnXwBim0k3oyBbesTqsD8coi-AdWpqL88G77mmv-JcLZ2r1EvfXRiNUG7iogghIMj1e_338uCnAaVGU9lF74mUFVwpge427Q9WZ_0bRlVrzD3In-Xw9K4fWxM9Ua0MAdQ

Nazi Collaborators : Viktor Arajs 2/3
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/q3BtqKKLM-Q?ytsession=jK02NEzIL2qRIhEOYqC0btqtulQwQm5thZOSGHRoU-NuKADMsKHsn4gYyshtPBm94om2HXUffh9K-Ep2DvQu1MYg55NbiLFryogzF29UaLY6AV68o97uputpCfxZ9uDRtNX5htpyAS7xHCHlPTXxzg

Nazi Collaborators : Viktor Arajs 3/3
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/M1Jmc9DZOc0?ytsession=wAjRg-nfqCIEzvKpqFWAwwemJOQ6Ee9JSszLjpO45iq-8wODxu-slOo0oT-MK3uZ7nq7nvbDoQgtH45njf5HuERg0QUHO06VtjR2Sk7PWh4RQE7kJNhFDC4fXhFRu3Qkuw3wpF_SvQjggLNCyTbE4w

by oftenwrong Thu May 09, 2013 5:24 pm

Als sie die Juden abholten, habe ich nichts getan, weil ich kein Jude war.

(When they came for the Jews, I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.)

http://www.rkdn.org/u-r-next.asp

by boatlady Thu May 09, 2013 5:29 pm

Which is why right wing regimes are so often successful - divide and rule tactics

by ROB Thu May 09, 2013 5:34 pm

boatlady wrote:
no, sorry, you've lost me - thought we were discussing 20th century history

“… it’s beyond comprehension how so-called “Christians” that have the audacity to say that they follow Jesus the Jew could hate Jews so much that, given the opportunity to do so, they eagerly set about exterminating every Jew they knew or knew about.”

This is 20th Century history.

Lithuania - 1933 Jewish population, 155,000; present Jewish population, 4,000; difference 1933-present, -151,000; percentage present/1933, 2.58%.
Latvia - 1933 Jewish population, 95,600; present Jewish population, 10,385; difference 1933-present, -85,215; percentage present/1933, 10.86%.

by boatlady Thu May 09, 2013 5:43 pm

It's also to me beyond comprehension that 'Christians' can endorse private gun ownership, war, right wing government policies that allow children to starve and multiple acts of inhumanity on a daily basis - but they do. That's the nature of 'Christianity' as practised by many, and is why I personally will not commit to any organised religion.

The Jews were oppressed and threatened with extermination by a wicked regime - sadly, they are not the only group to have been treated in this way.
Read accounts of the extermination camps - the will to destroy people bacause they are seen to be 'different' is to me the wickedness.

by ROB Sat May 11, 2013 6:23 am

Holocaust Encyclopedia

Martin Niemöller: "First they came for the Socialists..."

Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.

… Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

The quotation stems from Niemöller's lectures during the early postwar period.

Only in 1963, in a West German television interview, did Niemöller acknowledge and make a statement of regret about his own antisemitism (see Gerlach, 2000, p. 47). Nonetheless, Martin Niemöller was one of the earliest Germans to talk publicly about broader complicity in the Holocaust and guilt for what had happened to the Jews.

… his point was that Germans--in particular, he believed, the leaders of the Protestant churches--had been complicit through their silence in the Nazi imprisonment, persecution, and murder of millions of people.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392

by ROB Sat May 11, 2013 6:55 am

The Latvian Arajas Kommando (1) eagerly aided Nazi SS exterminators in extermination of Jews, and (2) eagerly exterminated Jews themselves.

If one accesses the CIA world facts website and looks up Latvia and Lithuania, one can find detailed data as to religious affiliations of these countries’ current populations.

boatlady wrote:
… [that] is why I personally will not commit to any organised religion.

Y’shua, Jesus, does not speak of organizing any organized religion in the Greek Bible. Neither do Peter, James, John, and Paul, apostles of Jesus who are charged to “teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you”, speak of organizing any organized religion in the Greek Bible.

by boatlady Sat May 11, 2013 9:35 am

Really not sure what your point is here - except to post multiple links - if that's it, fill your boots

by ROB Sat May 11, 2013 9:35 pm

Religion in Latvia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia has 708,773 members.^[1] Roman Catholicism in Latvia has 430,000 members.^[2] The Latvian Orthodox Church is semi-autonomous and has 370,000 members.^[1]

As of 2011, the population of Jews in Latvia was 416;^[1] there were 146 Hindus in Latvia;^[1] and there were several hundred Muslims in Latvia.^[1]

Adherents, Number
Lutherans, 708,773
Roman Catholics, 500,000
Orthodox, 370,000
Baptists, 6,930
Old Believer Orthodox, 34,517
Seventh-day Adventists, 4,046
Jehovah's Witnesses, 290
Methodists, 751
Jews, 416

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Latvia

Jewish population of Latvia, numbers
1933: 95,600
2011: 416
Difference: -95,184

Jewish population of Latvia, percentages
1933: 100%
2011: 0.44%
Difference: -99.56%

It appears that the WWII de-Jew-fication of Latvia has lasted into the 21st Century.

by oftenwrong Sat May 11, 2013 11:18 pm

It may be worthy of note that the Baltic States of Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia,
having been over-run by the occupying Wermacht; upon being liberated by the Red Army in 1944/45 ceased to exist as separate entities. Russia annexed all three territories and it was not until the return to normality after the end of the Cold War that their independent governments were restored.

by **Ivan** Sun May 12, 2013 12:09 am

Rock. I can’t really see the point of this thread. We all know that the Nazis murdered six million Jews and we must never forget that. In some countries, the Jews were almost entirely wiped out. The state of Israel was created (with all the problems that has caused), and surviving Jews had the opportunity to go there, although many had difficulty in getting permission to leave the Soviet Union.

I would think that it’s fairly obvious why there are so few Jews in Latvia. If existing ones were murdered, if the country became part of the Soviet Union, and if the Jews then had a country of their own, why would any of them want to migrate to Latvia, even if they’d been allowed to do so?

On a side note, I’m pleased that you've mentioned the Niemoller poem. Whichever version of it you read indicates that the Nazis attacked people on the left (communists, socialists, trade unionists) as soon as they came to power. Some of our Tory friends like to claim that the Nazis were left-wing because they called themselves ‘National Socialists’, which is just an absurdity. But I suppose Tories will be Tories….. Sad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

by ROB Sun May 12, 2013 4:21 am

Ivan wrote:
Rock. I can’t really see the point of this thread.

Ivan, there are several reasons for this thread.

1. This is the history board and these are historical facts.

2. These historical facts, in my opinion,^a are not obvious, as most people assume that the de-Jew-ification of Europe was and is due to Nazi actions alone, when, according to the posted documentary, European Jewish extermination required the willing cooperation of non-German Europeans.

3. I am personally edified and horrified^b,c by this revelation of eager non-German European participation in European Jewish extermination.

4. As a non-European, I am keenly interested in hearing Europeans’ reactions, opinions, observations, analysis (including historical analysis), and conclusions concerning these historical facts.

5. As a sometimes fundamentalist Christian^d in truth rather than label, I am also keenly interested in the underlying anti-Jew sentiment among “Christian” Europeans that seemed to view Nazi conquest and occupation of their homelands as long-awaited opportunities to actualize these underlying sentiments by ridding their homelands of hated Jews in close collaboration with Nazis.

For instance, I’ve studied history at the undergraduate and graduate levels; until recently, I was unaware of these historical facts.
My desire to visit the Baltic countries has evaporated, as I wish to withhold all of my tourist dollars financial contribution to these countries’ economies forever. The current inhabitants of, for instance, Latvia, seem perfectly content to live and thrive in a country cleansed of hated Jewish blood (my opinion), so they can live so cleansed forever. I’ll stay right here in my Jewish-blood tainted native countries, the Sovereign State of Texas and the United States of America, where my fellow Texans, Jewish Texans, and fellow Americans, Jewish Americans, live free and secure. “… with liberty and justice for all.”
As a sometime Christian (see below) with ties to US Lutheran Christians, Catholic Christians, and Methodist Christians (see the chart from the Wikipedia article), I am horrified that my so-called Latvian brothers-in-Christ (gender inclusive) could have been so concerned about garnering international support, including my support, for their struggle to free themselves from the Soviet Empire while harboring such a heinous national secret.
The fundamental(s) of Christianity are/is willingly living one’s life according to Y’shua’s, Jesus’, teachings. Sometimes I do so; at such times, I am honored and humbled by being allowed by my Creator to be a Christian. Oftentimes I do not do so; at such times, I have no right to claim to be a Christian.

Thank you for your interest, and hopefully your contribution as a European and a historian to my edification.

Ivan wrote:
If existing ones were murdered, if the country became part of the Soviet Union, and if the Jews then had a country of their own, why would any of them want to migrate to Latvia, even if they’d been allowed to do so?

I am a Texan. Because I was born a Black Texan during a time when, had my parents chosen to raise me in my native country, I would have been compelled against my will to drink black water, eliminate in black lean-to’s, access non-Black-owned restaurants’ food through back-door take-out if at all, and so forth, my parents immigrated to a place where their son, me, and their other children, my sisters and brothers, could be raised as humans rather than human-appearing beasts of burden.

As wrong as that was, at least we were not Jews in Latvia, and at least our native country has been so changed for the better that I have been able to re-patriot myself and my family to my beloved Texas. It certainly appears that Latvian Jews, unlike Black Texans, cannot comfortable do so, and their family histories in Latvia stretch back many centuries, while my family history in Texas began barely a century ago.

Ivan wrote:
On a side note, I’m pleased that you've mentioned the Niemoller poem. Whichever version of it you read indicates that the Nazis attacked people on the left (communists, socialists, trade unionists) as soon as they came to power. Some of our Tory friends like to claim that the Nazis were left-wing because they called themselves ‘National Socialists’, which is just an absurdity. But I suppose Tories will be Tories…..

Often Wrong first mentioned the Niemoller poem on this thread. Credit must always be given where credit is due, so “props” to Often Wrong for this significant substantive contribution.

Many of my US Black brothers (gender inclusive) disparage Jews today, and have done so for far too many decades. It is a far-too-little discussed fact that as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., JL Chestnut, Carl Lewis, “Southern Gadfly”, and others risked their lives in the US South during the 1950s and 1960s, Jewish brothers were on the front lines (Michael Henry Schwerner, Andrew Goodman) and in the background bailing unlawfully incarcerated freedom fighters out of Southern jails. We, and I include me because I am Black, need to be reminded regularly that Solomon Burke’s message applies to us.

“If you don’t say it’s wrong, then that say’s it’s right”

None Of Us Are Free - Solomon Burke
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/87PJHQGAx38

by **Ivan** Tue May 14, 2013 11:52 pm

Rock. There were plenty of Germans in the 1930s who weren’t fascists, and there are some famous examples. Willy Brandt, who later became Chancellor of West Germany, left the country for Norway when Hitler came to power in 1933, in order to escape Nazi persecution.

At the same time, there were fascists in every European country, those who believed all the tosh about a master race and chose to collaborate with the Nazis. There still are plenty of fascists around; take a look at some of the filth from European far-right parties with whom UKIP MEPs like Nigel Farage associate in 2013:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

When economic conditions are poor, as they were in the 1930s and are again now, some people turn to the extremes of left and right, depending on their view of the causes of the problems. Right-wing parties always operate by divide and rule and look for scapegoats to blame. In the UK in past decades, trade unions were the scapegoat, currently it’s immigrants and people receiving benefits. Neo-Nazis are currently quite strong in Greece, despite that country having suffered from Nazi occupation in the Second World War. In Germany in the 1930s, the Nazis ran a very effective propaganda campaign to demonise Jews, and that was supported by fascists in other countries, including Oswald Mosley’s ‘blackshirts’. So, in short, not all Germans in Nazi Germany were fascists, just as not all Brits living under Cameron’s government are Tories, as I’m sure you’ve noticed. At the same time, fascists weren’t restricted to Germany, Italy and Spain. But I'm sure you must know all that already.

I like Germany and go there quite often. If I ever emigrate from the UK, that's where you'll find me. Maybe you go along with that “sins of the father are visited on the son” stuff, but I can’t and won’t blame anyone in 21st century Germany for what some of their forefathers did 70-80 years ago. I can’t understand your animosity to the current inhabitants of Latvia; what do you expect them to do? They can’t bring back to life the Jews who were killed in their country and they can’t force Jews from elsewhere to go and live there. Perhaps I’m missing the point that you’re trying to make.

As you will know by the way in which the Republican Party has done its best to hijack Christianity, most Christians tend to be right-wing. I’ve never really understood that, since concepts like “love your neighbour” have more in common with left-wing ideas. I know there was some sort of dubious understanding between the Pope and the Nazis in the Second World War, and I realise there isn’t much love lost between Catholics and Jews, as this story reminded us:-
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t157-what-does-the-case-of-edgardo-mortara-tell-us-about-religious-beliefs

Being an atheist, I feel I’m out of my depth on this topic, so I’ll shut up now. Did the Catholic Church blame the Jews for the death of Jesus? He had to die though, didn’t he? Maybe the following thread might be the best place for learning more about the Christian attitude to Jews:-
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t575-to-hate-jews-is-to-hate-god

by ROB Thu May 16, 2013 4:36 am

Ivan wrote:
Rock. There were plenty of Germans in the 1930s who weren’t fascists, and there are some famous examples. Willy Brandt, who later became Chancellor of West Germany, left the country for Norway when Hitler came to power in 1933, in order to escape Nazi persecution.

At the same time, there were fascists in every European country, those who believed all the tosh about a master race and chose to collaborate with the Nazis. There still are plenty of fascists around; take a look at some of the filth from European far-right parties with whom UKIP MEPs like Nigel Farage associate in 2013:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

Is Ukip a party of bigots? Let's look at the evidence
Their manifesto might just look like a list of things that annoy people, but party members hold some views that should concern us, says Alex Andreou.
By Alex Andreou Published 11 February 2013 17:36

Scared of immigrants? Vote Ukip.

Insecure about the financial crisis? Vote Ukip.

Hate the smoking ban, HS₂, Brussels, travellers, burqas, regulation, tax, Boris, debt, wind farms, quangos, foreign aid, crime, Abu Qatada, tuition fees, lazy people, Muslims, foreigners, the hunting ban? Vote Ukip.

The real danger of Ukip becoming a serious contender for coalition partnership in 2015 is gleefully ignored by the centre-left (because, after all, they are damaging the Tories) and dealt with by the centre-right by shifting closer to their extremes; by copying their policies and rhetoric. Everything from the EU referendum and citizenship tests (pdf) to Theresa May’s – and I’m not making this up – imbecilic tales of cat loving, illegal immigrants.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

Ivan,

On a forum upon which I once posted, one poster, a Black man, often posted referenced material from a US white supremacist web site. The filth and defecation therein was of such magnitude that anyone who has allowed herself/himself to be infected and infested thereby cannot help but to have a diseased mind and diseased soul. Some of these diseased persons are “American” Nazis, who propagate their immoral garbage under the protection of Amendments 1 and 14 of the United States Constitution.

One white supremacist was a high school student enrolled in a computer science class taught by me. Seemed decent enough, and I ensured that he received the quality education that he would deny my children if he came to power. One day he asked me to help him create a program to determine the impact point of, let’s say, a mortar shell from a mortar set at certain angle with a certain exit velocity. He said that he was completing a science project. Like a fool, I helped him. One day before we were scheduled to complete the program, another student informed me that this student would not be at school that day. Seems he had been arrested by the local PD for conspiracy to blow up a police station with a mortar shell.

When Barack Hussein Obama II (short and long form) took office, white supremacist groups’ membership skyrocketed. We okay long as Rasta pickin’ cotton, but Rasta and his blackies in the White House? Revolution time! Those who do not know the history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

by boatlady Thu May 16, 2013 7:19 pm

Rock I think many of us in England understand that UKIP is at heart a right-wing party and I for one clearly see the parallels with Europe in the '30's - but just not getting what you want to say here

by tlttf Fri May 17, 2013 7:16 am

boatlady, to see parallels of ukip and the nazis in europe would put you akin with mother Shipton, fine agree with roc though his postings are 70 years too late and couldn't be repeated in modern europe that grew through the times. Please remember yesteday in Scotland it was the left inclined labour crowd that were doing the threatening to Farage.

by ROB Fri May 17, 2013 7:27 am

Fatal Attraction of Adolf Hitler 1/5
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/_cCRN1flMOk?ytsession=sjIiD8iYldOWls0IXkbYiK4peOmmr1Zja4VI8JWzQOacGpsGRKDP6c40fjEI3znZrEshX2y25e7YZnahfbrcp3s5SVqoAUJvW-_IR7s3xojugd_Wd8KDhpv4Y_58wzAwvUJJj4CjryDhi-crMnVigQ

Fatal Attraction of Adolf Hitler 2/5
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/O1-HFb_w71k?ytsession=nVF8WYxFQTvxyDIwnRho_js10K8U92UCxkDpIXpVtNOKOln1ujz6yKYynRDTO3sZb8W9P3-hU-NoXifBQxXrk1bgQCmJw0oTbiM6GF-m2t97Ni57jgMXfONDLYvWASgcK9-flARFKDWztUg-EqinAQ

Fatal Attraction of Adolf Hitler 3/5
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/WKlYOTOsqbs?ytsession=q2RynkkkT83-dLRegfjeOsrIgggB3CxREkE1mOAi6f4D_XI28jtttbvYZUAlyD0S7JBesxaHy8xIg3nO8n4OQjiFKgum7qH7-nele8XFXkp9RUYKijwHjhQcmOixT2PW0vCvyEyiLg3B4BpBL77Fpw

Fatal Attraction of Adolf Hitler 4/5
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/hFd3uNLRc3s?ytsession=4fnMIUIaKyNgUm2wdI0jfESrKAW3ouctkWuLPZ_o4KooFQFrA3Z6rK3XeF_5YErKq_v2KP2QM4PoRWDOIO_pgfSF3uOabFZidl3c_6vpPVaUbDxOYfhwCNHDWmporT47lsZmWiTC_wZv-Ea7DxKv2w

Fatal Attraction of Adolf Hitler 5/5
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/vCEb1vbkWkQ?ytsession=8BKYblJ4boEtDfKinbMwb44QgDa60xwWXvt1om4N8gruN6cLKxsIjUaQ9ll7K4R1EZ0rsDxVrLcewcOFKWIXa2TWHm6eSpWeYW00BjuDgYRiIR23uMazsoQvmasXsyuQUj58B6csaPoLAPmMw5n2Lw

Ivan,

This program aired in two parts Wednesday 16 May 2013. It begins to address my questions. Evil charisma. Neville “Honorable Peace in Our Time” Chamberlain is featured in the first five minutes of part 3.

by boatlady Fri May 17, 2013 12:19 pm

boatlady, to see parallels of ukip and the nazis in europe would put you akin with mother Shipton

Now that's offensive - also ignorant - I'm just assuming you've never read anything about the insidious ways in which divisive political policies can morph into really vicious campaigns against groups seen as 'other'. After all, I've never seen a Sun headline on this topic.

The Nazis are used as an example, mostly because their rise, fall and atrocities are well documented, but there have been many other examples.

The pattern is familiar - first you need an economic downturn - a recession - then you need a charismatic leader who is able to convince a small 'inner' group that the identified group in society (Jews, gays, disabled people, Eastern Europeans- you name it) is responsible for the problems,. You fortify your group with louts and bully boys, who you keep firmly in the background just at first, while you mount a charm offensive on the nice ordinary types in society who aren't badly effected as yet but fear they may be if things get worse, and you convince them that if only we had less Jews, a really effective treatment for homosexuality, a euthanasia programme for the severely disabled, a repatriation programme for Eastern Europeans, the problems with the economy would be solved.
Once you've got a bridge head in political terms, you can start to unleash your 'enforcers' - then everyone is afraid of the consequences of opposing you - then you can start the genocide or whatever you want.

This is not some invented horror story - you can look at any history of Nazi Germany or for that matter Russia under Stalin and see the pattern - look again at UKIP and see the parallels. In my opinion, they are clear to see. study

by tlttf Fri May 17, 2013 5:17 pm

Nothing said that was offensive and certainly not ignorant. If you genuinely see the similarities between the two then fine. Personally I think your clutching at straws to draw comparisons, but hey that's we have freedom of speech.

by oftenwrong Fri May 17, 2013 5:37 pm

Try this for a comparison then tlttf, if you will:

In 1931 Oswald Mosley founded the New Party, but in the General Election none of the New Party's candidates were elected.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Pfascists.htm

by tlttf Fri May 17, 2013 5:47 pm

Excellent link there OW, I still fail to see the comparison. Under the distinction being made should I assume that this country can only have 3 political parties, do we not celebrate free speech (sometimes), if yourself or anybody want to call them right wing, fine. Hardly makes them fascist though. Remember these extreme parties grew at a time in history when communism was rife and gaining power in many countries, a natural balance of things possibly. Personally I'd prefer a parliament of independents, failing that, anybody but labour. Does that make me a fascist?

by oftenwrong Fri May 17, 2013 7:32 pm

Personally I'd prefer a parliament of independents

Given that Westminster Politics is decided by the Party Managers operating the Whip, that's crying for the moon, and won't not never happen, nowise.

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De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

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Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII

Re: De-Jew-ification of Europe: Non-German Europeans exterminate Jews during WWII