Is it time that we took a closer look at UKIP?

First topic message reminder :

The UKIP vote in Eastleigh rose from 3.6% in 2010 to 27.8% in the by-election on Thursday. It may have been because the party is mopping up the mid-term protest votes which traditionally went to the Liberal Democrats before they climbed into bed with the devil in May 2010. It may be because many people – wrongly - feel that the three main parties in Westminster are “all the same”, a feeling which the Tories have helped to create by transferring so much real power from democratic accountability to unelected and unaccountable corporations as they privatise everything on which they can lay their grubby hands. What I don’t believe is that this bubble of support for UKIP is because of the party’s reactionary, right-wing policies, which aim to take us back to the 1950s.

The one policy which everyone associates with UKIP is withdrawal from the EU. UKIP has claimed that by leaving the EU, the UK would save over £45 million a day plus £60 billion a year, conveniently ignoring any EU rebates and regional grants. I’m not sure where it gets those figures from, since the Treasury says that the UK paid £8.9 billion into EU budget in 2010/11 (out of £706 billion of public spending). The European Commission puts the UK's net contribution at £5.85 billion.

The EU is the UK's main trading partner, accounting for 52% of our total trade in goods and services; if Britain went for a clean break from the EU, its exports would be subject to EU export tariffs. Millions of jobs could be lost as global manufacturers move to low-cost countries within the EU, and Britain's foreign-owned car industry might well shift into the EU. However, withdrawal from the EU was the issue which UKIP exploited and which put it on the political map. With his half-baked promise of a referendum at some point in the future, the idiotic Cameron has increased UKIP’s credibility by showing that he’s afraid of it.

Cameron also said that UKIP is “full of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists", and perhaps on that last point he could now be right. The Eastleigh by-election showed that UKIP is appealing to racists, causing one person on Twitter to refer to it as “the BNP for the Notting Hill set”. UKIP may be more subtle than the BNP, but it wants to freeze immigration, pandering to the Alf Garnetts who see all foreigners as problems, and has even thrown in the contentious claim that “multiculturalism has split our society”.

In December 2011, the UK had 88,179 people in prison, more per head of the population than any other country in Europe, yet UKIP wants to double the number of prison places. UKIP says that the £2 billion cost of building new prisons is negligible compared to the cost of crime, but it hasn’t factored in the cost of keeping prisoners in jail, which amounts to at least £40,000 a year for each of them. Yet UKIP would refuse to accept European Arrest Warrants, which could well mean delays for the UK in extraditing suspects from other European countries.

The NHS would be no safer with UKIP than it’s been with the Tories, since the party believes that “other models are worth considering to see whether lessons can be learned from abroad”. On education, UKIP wants to bring back grammar schools, so that we can once again tell about 80% of eleven-year-olds that they’re failures, while at the same time giving parents education vouchers, which would be a way of subsidising private school fees.

The cornerstone of UKIP’s tax policies is to roll the employee national insurance and basic rate income tax into a flat rate of income tax of 31%. There would be no higher rate tax, since UKIP perpetuates the Tory lie that the 50% income tax rate cost the economy money; it hasn’t, it has brought in £2.7 billion a year. UKIP’s policy would be a massive tax cut for the rich, far bigger than the one that’s being introduced by the Tories in April. Even greater inequality would be created by abolishing national insurance for employers.

UKIP policies, like so many Tory ones, amount to an attack on our rights. UKIP would put an end to most legislation regarding matters such as weekly working hours, holidays, overtime, redundancy and sick pay, while leaving it up to each employer to decide whether to offer parental leave. It says it would also scrap most ‘equality and discrimination’ legislation.

If you need any more reasons not to vote for UKIP, it denies climate change and would make increased defence spending “a clear priority, even in these difficult times”. It opposes equal marriage, would hold a referendum in each county on ending the hunting ban and would allow smoking in allocated rooms in public houses, clubs and hotels. It’s no wonder that UKIP has been likened to “the political wing of a Home Counties golf club”.

You may not like the EU, and you may think that after 38 years it’s time to hold another referendum on our membership. However, before you vote for a party that makes that its flagship policy, look a little more closely at what else you would be voting for at the same time.

Sources used:-

http://www.ukip.org/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450

UKIP's Godfrey Bloom can't be misogynist, some of his best friends are women

by Alex Hern

"I just don't think they clean behind the fridge enough."

"No small businessman with a brain would ever employ a lady of child-bearing age".

"Isn't she the most delicious bimbette? Absolutely thick, but good tits."

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/04/ukip-mep-godfrey-bloom-cant-be-misogynist-some-his-best-friends-are-women


UKIP donor says women in trousers are 'hostile' and unmarried mothers need a 'smack'

Demetri Marchessini, who gave two donations of £5,000 each to UKIP this year, suggests women should wear skirts because it is more pleasing to men.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10064185/Ukip-donor-says-women-in-trousers-are-hostile-and-unmarried-mothers-need-a-smack.html

The wonderful thing about Facebook, of course, is it gives a person the same feeling of being in their own private space as a night in the pub with friends - leading so often to indiscretion.

Ivan now that UKIP are under the spotlight since doing so well in the local elections that spotlight will increase, as people dig deeper into what makes them tick they will find out lots warts and all.

I do not know if you've seen the welcome LOL they got in Scotland but as you will know Scotland does not vote Tory at all, did Farage think that the bile he spouts on TV is not shown here in Scotland? BNP do try to get seats here but so far their votes are around 100 which I think come from protest votes just like UKIP in the local elections in England.

I can’t believe that when tlttf was on his cut-and-paste marathon this morning, he missed this story – in his favourite paper as well!

Before you vote in next year’s EU elections, ask yourself if you want an MEP who turns up at the EU Parliament regularly, or whether you just want someone who claims the expenses and then boozes the money away down the pub.

There are 754 MEPs in the EU Parliament. Nigel Farage has the fifth worst attendance record out of all of them; Paul Nuttall has the fourth. As Labour MP Graham Morris put it: “Farage is the leader of Europe’s laziest party”. Labour MEP Glenis Willmott said: “They claim to be protecting British interests, but when decisions are made in committees, UKIP are nowhere to be seen.”

Farage thinks there’s no point in turning up because his nasty little bunch of far-right xenophobes always get slaughtered in any vote. That doesn’t stop him claiming the salary and no doubt plenty of expenses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2337307/Nigel-Farage-says-entitled-lunchtime-pint-figures-UKIP-laziest-party-Brussels.html

The similarities between the TP and the UKIP are strikingly similar. Is it possible that the TP is more deeply entrenched in the US, than the UKIP is in the UK? As an American, I am not well versed in UK politics, but would like to learn more. Thanks for charting the comparisons.

This is where I differ from you Oshianna. I tend to think that UKIP is more in tune the the Tory party here in the UK, much of their policies are the same, they both believe the UK should leave the EU and the state should not take so much to do with the running of the country, eg our NHS.   They believe everything should be in the hands of the private sector, and as we have all found out to our sorrow (austerity), the private sector is not always the best choice for our country.

Oshianna. Welcome to Cutting Edge!  
 
My understanding is that the Tea Party is the even more lunatic fringe of the lunatic Republican Party (GOP), obsessed with abortion, determined to curtail welfare (and voting rights for the unemployed), but opposed to any gun control. As you can see from the comparison, UKIP has many similar ideas to the Tea Party (your ‘right-wing nutjobs’), but although these views are shared by the far right of our Tory Party, they are still separate parties – for the moment. UKIP has representatives in the European Parliament but no MPs in our Westminster Parliament yet, as it secured only 3% of the votes in our 2010 general election.
 
The UKIP leader, Nigel Farage, is keen to do a deal with the Tories, and he’s been to see their godfather, Rupert Murdoch, with that thought in mind. He wants Murdoch to use his connections and media power to boot out David Cameron and install a Tory leader who is more in tune with UKIP’s grotty policies, in the hope of forming a pact with the Tories for our 2015 election.

Thank you Ivan for explaining the difference between UKIP the TP and Tories more precisely than myself, it just goes to prove Murdoch still has his dirty fingers in our political affairs. Boris Johnson is also courting Murdoch to help him get the leadership of the Tory party from the clutches of Cameron.  To me one is as bad as the other, can you imagine Doris going on business for the UK? He would more than likely be trying to get one of the wives of the country he was visiting into bed, that would make us look the laughing stock of the world.

UKIP will have a head start in next year's election of MEPs.
90% of the electorate do not know the name of their existing MEP and have little idea of what they do.

When did you last see coverage of their doings in an English newspaper?

To be honest OW I do not know why UKIP are bothering about the EU elections. They, like some of the Tory party, want out of the EU, so why do they bother - any ideas ??

The money's good - inside or outside the EU.

oftenwrong wrote:The money's good - inside or outside the EU.

 
So what I thought about Farage is true he is willing to run the EU down but more than willing to allow them to pay his wages, that says a lot about the person he is and he wants to become our representiave in the H.O.C in 2015.

Maybe you don’t mind UKIP aligning itself with people who support a mass murderer, but no doubt John O’Farrell having a ‘bad thought’ 29 years ago is much worse in your eyes. There’s also a slight difference – O’Farrell was an ordinary candidate who probably won’t stand again, while Farage is a party leader.

Oops seem to remember Blair was a great Gaddafi supporter or doesn't he count as a mass murderer.Makes little difference as Blair is one himself

kentdougal.  A nice attempt to divert this thread from its exposure of UKIP, but Blair was not “a great Gaddafi supporter”. That notorious photograph was taken when Blair was persuading Gaddafi – successfully as it turned out – not to develop nuclear weapons in Libya.
 
Blair was also not a “mass murderer”, as you glibly claim. He got us involved, foolishly in my opinion, in a war in Iraq which George W. Bush was determined to have (and which the Tories supported), but the vast majority of the casualties arose from one group of Iraqis murdering another; they weren't killed on the orders of Tony Blair.
 
On the other hand, Thatcher was a mass murderer, ordering the sinking of a ship which was sailing away from the Falklands and outside the exclusion zone. She was also a personal friend of the Chilean butcher Augusto Pinochet, someone who she viewed as “heroic”.
 
However, what Blair did ten years ago and what Thatcher did thirty years ago is history. This thread is about what UKIP is saying and doing now.

In the unlikely event of a UKIP-majority government, can anyone be in any doubt that within a couple of years Britain will have fallen out with every respectable government in the World?

Could I suggest if we got a majority UKIP gov't there would not be a UK to fall out with any one, OW?

Time to expose UKIP MEPs for what they really are – lazy and unprincipled
 
Extracts from an article by Rebecca Taylor and Petros Fassoulas:-
 
UKIP MEPs are infamous for being not just Britain’s laziest members of the European Parliament, but among the laziest in Europe. UKIP MEPs’ excuse for their lack of graft is that their job is to get the UK out of the EU and they don’t need to bother with anything else, like actually representing their constituents’ interests in Brussels.

If they were politicians of principle, they could refuse to take their seats after being elected. But then they would forfeit their salary and allowances, which they don’t seem keen to do. In fact UKIP are on record as boasting about how much money their MEPs claim, for not doing their jobs properly. Two UKIP MEPs were jailed for expense fraud and benefit fraud and last year two further UKIP MEPs were forced to repay nearly £40k to the European Parliament after being found to have used allowances improperly.

UKIP MEPs are far less transparent than MEPs from other UK parties, who publish their expenses on their websites and regularly update them. Nigel Farage was caught out by Andrew Neil, when he was asked why he and his deputy Paul Nuttall had not published their expenses for two years. Farage was unable to produce a convincing response, saying instead that he was “very busy” and had “lost some receipts”.

What does Farage do while he is in Brussels, paid by British tax payers? Does he stand up for British interests? Does he work on legislation that will improve the life of his constituents? No, he spends his time avoiding committee meetings and failing to vote even on issues that are important for the UK. Guy Verhofstadt famously accused Farage of being the EU’s biggest waste of money. He has a point.
 
http://euromove.blogactiv.eu/2013/07/26/time-to-expose-ukip-meps-for-what-they-really-are-%E2%80%93-lazy-unprincipled/

The more to you help the Tories regain the UKIP defecters, the more likey they will return to power in 2015...as for the article. It doesn't surprise me. Ukip are only there to upset the apple cart and show how badly the EU is run and the waste of money is has become. Shame really as I and many others are on balance in favour of an EU.....but it has grown into an uncontrolable beast that no one voted for

Explain the difference between UKIP policy and that of the right-wing Tory rump. A cigarette-packet, with or without branding, will provide adequate space upon which to write.

oftenwrong wrote:Explain the difference between UKIP policy and that of the right-wing Tory rump.  A cigarette-packet, with or without branding, will provide adequate space upon which to write.

I would say OW you could not get a fag paper between the Tory party and UKIP, most of there policies are just the same as the Tory party they want out of the EU yet are two faced enough to take there salary for the EU (Farage). Also Farage would just take over where the Tories leave off so it is important that the people of the UK are warned in case they think UKIP would not be as NASTY as the Tories.

The more to you help the Tories regain the UKIP defecters, the more likey they will return to power in 2015...as for the article. It doesn't surprise me. Ukip are only there to upset the apple cart and show how badly the EU is run and the waste of money is has become. Shem really as I and many others are on balance in favour of an EU.....but it has grown into an uncontrolable beast that no one voted for

It's common knowledge that EDL supporters are illiterate oafs with scarcely a brain cell between them. I hadn't realised that the infliction had spread to other 'Little Englanders' and supporters of UKIP.

So it’s okay to claim a salary and fiddle expenses for a job you can’t be bothered to do? No problem if you don’t go to Brussels and try to safeguard the interests of the people who voted for you? It’s fine if you don’t get round to publishing details of your claims for expenses, as other MEPs do?
 
It's not surprising that you can't see the big picture if you only have a small screen.

Hi Bobby....I have to agree with you. I would rather be part of the EU, but one that works for us and the other nations. Right now all I can see is failed and retired politicians making as much money as they can off the back of serious financial waste and layers and layers of bureaucratic nonsense.

A proper debate needs to be had on all aspects of EU policy and the pros and cons of EU membership

Ivan...Yes i am an illiterate oaf....happy now?.....I am used to your Trolling by now

PS....I say US, but I mean Britain as Jersey is not part of the EU (Just in case I get pulled up on that one)

I would hazard a guess that left-wing voters were usually in the minority on Jersey, and indeed all of the Channel Islands.

Don't you have to be rich to live there?
I seem to remember being told that waiters and others who staff the hotels and holiday resorts are not in fact allowed a permanent domicile on the island, but have to go home at the end of the season.
Maybe you can put me right on that, Blue - no doubt it's just an urban myth

Hi Boatlady.....Yes indeed it is an urban myth. We have a very different set of rules to the UK, but they seem to work for an island that is 9 miles by 5 so has a limited capacity for population growth.
 
I had to reside and wait 17 years before I gained my 'Residential Qualifications' which means I can now buy property or rent in what they call the A-H sector (any property I like) Most people here are from somewhere else and have done the same as I have. They allow a limited few per year to gain automatic residency and this is based on current wealth (Min £10 million), reputation and investing in local business to help generate the economy....Notable names in the past have been, Mr Black & Decker, Nigel Mansell and Derek Warwick who both have car businesses here. Nigel Benn the Boxer and Roger Moore.
 
On welfare.....No one, no matter where they are from can claim benefits for the first 5 years of residency (Except Child Allowance) There is no automatic right to social housing unless you have lived permanently here for 10 years.
 
The population is made up of
 
40k Jersey heritage
35k UK & Irish heritage
15k Portuguese (Maderia)
9k Polish and other eastern europeans
2k Other nationals (Chinese, Indian, African, Australian, Scandanavian, French)
 
Total population 101k, with unemployment at 1,740...give or take
 
95% of people who live here are not rich, but the offshore finance industry represents the global rich, whether thats hign net worth individuals (Sports people, pop stars, politicians, Actors etc)  or Corporate institutions...None of whom reside here but will have a holding company based in some random office complex.
 
There is no party politics here (Except the Green party), all politicians independents.....but in the main Conservative in nature. Any new whipper snappers who get elected and try to rock the boat usually gets whipped into shape or bullied or prosecuted out of office (Google/Wikipedia Stuart Syvret...he would make a good edition to Cutting edge). The Jersey Press is owned by the former Chief Minister...which kinda says it all really
 
I hope all that was not too boring and sorry for going off topic

blueturando wrote:-
A proper debate needs to be had on all aspects of EU policy and the pros and cons of EU membership

I tried to instigate that over a year ago, but true to form, that didn’t suit you:-
 
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t472-is-it-possible-to-have-a-rational-and-enlightened-discussion-about-the-european-union
 
In those days, I was a ‘don’t know’ on this issue. However, I’m grateful to UKIP and right-wing Tories for revealing their real reasons for wanting to leave the EU and helping me to make up my mind. I was also helped by all the anecdotal snippets of tabloid trash that your mate posted on here.
 
For many years, especially since our Australian friend Murdoch decided that he didn’t want Britain in the EU, the media coverage of the issue has been entirely negative. If there ever is a referendum on our membership – and I hope sincerely that there isn’t – will a reasoned and balanced case be presented to the electorate in language that they can understand? Most opinion polls suggest a small majority opposed to our continued membership of the EU, but I suspect most of that opposition is ‘soft’ and would dissipate if the topic is ever presented rationally.
 
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t837-is-it-undemocratic-to-be-opposed-to-an-eu-referendum

Cameron has long wanted to reduce the number of elected MPs at Westminster, but he’s had another round of packing the unelected House of Lords with donors and lackeys. This week has seen 14 more Tory peers, 10 more Lib Dems, 5 more Labour (one of whom is Doreen Lawrence) and one who supports the Green Party.
 
UKIP is very upset about this. Despite having won only 3% of the votes in the last general election, Farage’s tinpot party thinks it should be recognised as a serious contender at Westminster. A letter sent by the former UKIP leader Lord Pearson (a useless old fart who didn’t even know what was in his party’s manifesto when he was in charge) has been leaked, showing that he tried to do a deal with Cameron – “give us some lords and we’ll vote with you most of the time”.
 
Farage says that no peers for UKIP is “an insult to democracy”. I think he misses the point. The insult is that the man who poses as our Prime Minister, even though his party couldn’t win a majority of seats, can pack the House of Lords with cronies on an industrial scale, in order to ensure that his vicious government meets with little resistance. Robert Mugabe would be impressed by such an arrangement.
 
If Farage was really concerned about democracy, he could campaign for the abolition of the House of Lords and its replacement with a Senate chosen by a different voting system, such as PR. Then his party would have a few seats in the second chamber without the need to try and make secret deals with a corrupt politician like Cameron.
 
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/419037/Ukip-fury-as-David-Cameron-turns-down-party-s-ploy-for-seats-in-the-Lords

I knew Cameron reminded me of someone, Ivan, and Mugabe is the very person, the UK is headed the same way as Mugabe country "EFF ALL" democracy with all the underhand deals being done, jobs for the boys, filling the Lords with his donors.  As for Farage the very one that said he would work with the Tory party but not if Cameron was the leader, but if it meant Farage would get some of his party into the Lords that would be fine CORRUPTION ,at its most BLATANT .
 
The Tories have the bloody cheek to talk about the Labour party being funded by the Unions, they are funded by the likes of Wonga, Quick Quid payday loan firms who just because they have a licence to operate their business are no better than the illegal loan sharks you will find on any street across the UK.

Blue, Thanks for taking the time to explain this to me.

"Godfrey Bloom, a Ukip MEP, was filmed at a meeting of supporters in the West Midlands saying those who received aid in Bongo-bongo Land spent the money on "Ray-Ban sunglasses, apartments in Paris, Ferraris and all the rest of it".

Hi OW it looks like all the UKIP councillors and MEPs are letting the cat out of the bag as to their beliefs and policies, if we were stupid enough to vote them back into the EU Parliament next year or vote for them in the general election in 2015 we would be the laughing stock of the world with Farage at the head of gov't.

Source:- http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/08/08/tory-mp-the-public-will-back-ukip-mep-over-bongo-bongo-jibe

Its not us that are helping to get defecting Tory voters back, it's the likes of Mr Bloom and some of the other UKIP MEPs, Councillors that are not doing themselves any favours, but one good thing about it everybody knows that a vote for UKIP is a vote for another Tory gov't, that is enough to put anyone off.
 
It will make sure that come the general election in 2015 we will get a FAIR LABOUR GOV'T and not one that only looks after the ELITE at the top of the MONEY TREE.

It may be unnecessary for anyone on this board to be concerned about UKIP. They're quite capable of dismissing themselves as a bit ridiculous, like that "Party" who bounced up and down on their bums.

Natural Law Party.
 
Yogic flying, which was introduced in 1976 by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. As OW said, it involves them "bouncing up and down on their bums". UKIP supporters just talk out of theirs.

On BBC Radio 4 this morning I heard a chilling "Vox Pop" street interview with UKIP supporters about the egregious Bongo-bongo utterances of Godfrey Bloom.  In unmistakeably working-class accents, casual interviewees told the microphone-holder that they were so disgusted with UKIP views, they would go back to voting Tory.

oftenwrong wrote:On BBC Radio 4 this morning I heard a chilling "Vox Pop" street interview with UKIP supporters about the egregious Bongo-bongo utterances of Godfrey Bloom.  In unmistakeably working-class accents, casual interviewees told the microphone-holder that they were so disgusted with UKIP views, they would go back to voting Tory.

It just goes to show OW that Tory members and voters have the same attitude "Self First Self Again if there is anything left Myself Again"