Is it time that we took a closer look at UKIP?

First topic message reminder :

The UKIP vote in Eastleigh rose from 3.6% in 2010 to 27.8% in the by-election on Thursday. It may have been because the party is mopping up the mid-term protest votes which traditionally went to the Liberal Democrats before they climbed into bed with the devil in May 2010. It may be because many people – wrongly - feel that the three main parties in Westminster are “all the same”, a feeling which the Tories have helped to create by transferring so much real power from democratic accountability to unelected and unaccountable corporations as they privatise everything on which they can lay their grubby hands. What I don’t believe is that this bubble of support for UKIP is because of the party’s reactionary, right-wing policies, which aim to take us back to the 1950s.

The one policy which everyone associates with UKIP is withdrawal from the EU. UKIP has claimed that by leaving the EU, the UK would save over £45 million a day plus £60 billion a year, conveniently ignoring any EU rebates and regional grants. I’m not sure where it gets those figures from, since the Treasury says that the UK paid £8.9 billion into EU budget in 2010/11 (out of £706 billion of public spending). The European Commission puts the UK's net contribution at £5.85 billion.

The EU is the UK's main trading partner, accounting for 52% of our total trade in goods and services; if Britain went for a clean break from the EU, its exports would be subject to EU export tariffs. Millions of jobs could be lost as global manufacturers move to low-cost countries within the EU, and Britain's foreign-owned car industry might well shift into the EU. However, withdrawal from the EU was the issue which UKIP exploited and which put it on the political map. With his half-baked promise of a referendum at some point in the future, the idiotic Cameron has increased UKIP’s credibility by showing that he’s afraid of it.

Cameron also said that UKIP is “full of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists", and perhaps on that last point he could now be right. The Eastleigh by-election showed that UKIP is appealing to racists, causing one person on Twitter to refer to it as “the BNP for the Notting Hill set”. UKIP may be more subtle than the BNP, but it wants to freeze immigration, pandering to the Alf Garnetts who see all foreigners as problems, and has even thrown in the contentious claim that “multiculturalism has split our society”.

In December 2011, the UK had 88,179 people in prison, more per head of the population than any other country in Europe, yet UKIP wants to double the number of prison places. UKIP says that the £2 billion cost of building new prisons is negligible compared to the cost of crime, but it hasn’t factored in the cost of keeping prisoners in jail, which amounts to at least £40,000 a year for each of them. Yet UKIP would refuse to accept European Arrest Warrants, which could well mean delays for the UK in extraditing suspects from other European countries.

The NHS would be no safer with UKIP than it’s been with the Tories, since the party believes that “other models are worth considering to see whether lessons can be learned from abroad”. On education, UKIP wants to bring back grammar schools, so that we can once again tell about 80% of eleven-year-olds that they’re failures, while at the same time giving parents education vouchers, which would be a way of subsidising private school fees.

The cornerstone of UKIP’s tax policies is to roll the employee national insurance and basic rate income tax into a flat rate of income tax of 31%. There would be no higher rate tax, since UKIP perpetuates the Tory lie that the 50% income tax rate cost the economy money; it hasn’t, it has brought in £2.7 billion a year. UKIP’s policy would be a massive tax cut for the rich, far bigger than the one that’s being introduced by the Tories in April. Even greater inequality would be created by abolishing national insurance for employers.

UKIP policies, like so many Tory ones, amount to an attack on our rights. UKIP would put an end to most legislation regarding matters such as weekly working hours, holidays, overtime, redundancy and sick pay, while leaving it up to each employer to decide whether to offer parental leave. It says it would also scrap most ‘equality and discrimination’ legislation.

If you need any more reasons not to vote for UKIP, it denies climate change and would make increased defence spending “a clear priority, even in these difficult times”. It opposes equal marriage, would hold a referendum in each county on ending the hunting ban and would allow smoking in allocated rooms in public houses, clubs and hotels. It’s no wonder that UKIP has been likened to “the political wing of a Home Counties golf club”.

You may not like the EU, and you may think that after 38 years it’s time to hold another referendum on our membership. However, before you vote for a party that makes that its flagship policy, look a little more closely at what else you would be voting for at the same time.

Sources used:-

http://www.ukip.org/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450

oftenwrong wrote:On BBC Radio 4 this morning I heard a chilling "Vox Pop" street interview with UKIP supporters about the egregious Bongo-bongo utterances of Godfrey Bloom.  In unmistakeably working-class accents, casual interviewees told the microphone-holder that they were so disgusted with UKIP views, they would go back to voting Tory.

It just goes to show OW that Tory members and voters have the same attitude "Self First Self Again if there is anything left Myself Again"

[Psst! Hey! Redflag! Did the U.K. Debate Forum finally croak?]

Curious Cdn wrote:[Psst! Hey! Redflag!  Did the U.K. Debate Forum finally croak?]

Hi Curious Cdn Welcome to CE
 
No UK debate is still going but the admin changed for the worst and us Lefties where banned right left and centre, it is now run by voters of the UKIP kind, Stox had asked Ivan to give me an invite over here and he did, this forum is a lot better you just follow the rules & regulations, although sometimes me being a bit of a hothead where politics is concerned Ivan has to give me some advice.
 
How did you find your way over here ? I am off on holiday today will see how you are getting on when I get back, you will like them all on here they're a great bunch.

Redflag. Curious Cdn has been a member of this forum for longer than you! The clue is in the join date under the avatar.
 
When I tried to log on to UK Debate both yesterday and this morning, it said that it had crashed.
 
Thank you for your support of this forum, but please conduct conversations with individual members through the personal messaging system.  
 
Hope you have a great holiday.

Ivan wrote:Redflag. Curious Cdn has been a member of this forum for longer than you! The clue is in the join date under the avatar.
 
When I tried to log on to UK Debate both yesterday and this morning, it said that it had crashed.
 
Thank you for your support of this forum, but please conduct conversations with individual members through the personal messaging system.  
 
Hope you have a great holiday.

Right you are. I'm just not familiar with the plumbing of your forum so I snuck (American English) an off-topic question in.

Sorry Ivan did not mean any disrespect to this forum, it's much better and a lot fairer than the other one mentioned.

After making capital about the Unite union in Falkirk, what will right-wing trolls make of this story?  
 
UKIP at war as dumped MEP threatens to take on ‘prat’ Farage
 
De-selected Mike Nattrass accuses leader of rigging selection contests:-
 
"Mr Nattrass, who was UKIP’s deputy leader from 2002 to 2006, publicly clashed with Farage in 2010 over UKIP’s decision to join a controversial faction within the European Parliament called Europe of Freedom and Democracy. This includes Lega Nord, which advocates autonomy for the north of Italy."
 
http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/local-news/ukip-war-dumped-mep-threatens-5798954

In the timeworn phrase, "My enemy's enemy is my friend."

Cameron's party is as afraid of UKIP as it is of the Labour party.

I think that is because he knows the seats he will lose in the GE of 2015 will go to Labour and UKIP plus now the NHA party, be afraid Cameron be very afraid.

I have often said on this forum that UKIP was the second hand Tory party, I certainly got that one badly wrong after watching and listening the UKIP mini conference I have come to the conclusion that UKIP are nothing more than " A FAR RIGHT WING PARTY" more too the right than Cameron and his shower of SCUMBAGS.
 
I do not know if this is a just a theory or it could be my imagination working overtime, but to me it sounds as though this is a Tory underhand way of getting back into power in 2015 reason they have knocked the Labour party and the Prostitute party, but the Tory party was let off the hook for all there Nasty bills plus the privatization of OUR NHS & now our Royal Mail, and being called swivel eyed LOONS `by Cameron.
 
For this new thread I would like some feed back from my fellow boarders, maybe just to prove its not just my imagination working overtime.

Can you, after all, imagine anyone to the right of the tories who's not fascist?

The measure of UKIP will be displayed after next year's MEP Elections, in which they MUST do well, or fade away.

One suspects that UKIP will suffer the fate of all 'protest parties' and expire shortly after an apparent spell of 'success'. ( See SDP)...

Perhaps even Shirley Williams will defect to UKIP.

oftenwrong wrote:Perhaps even Shirley Williams will defect to UKIP.

Well there form of politics would suit her OW, they might even get Cleggy after the 2015 general election LOL.

oftenwrong wrote:Perhaps even Shirley Williams will defect to UKIP.

Well, I remember her before she betrayed the Labour Party, and she was certainly sufficiently incompetent for even this Black Party ('Welsh' joke:

"UKIP blundered further when they launched a website in Wales calling themselves the 'Black Independence party'.

When trying to translate the party's name into Welsh they came up with 'Plaid Annibyniaeth y Du.' DU is the abbreviation for the UK in Welsh but 'du' means black.

A spokesman said: 'It's a screw up, we have now rectified it' and said it was not a re-branding of the party.")

 
Just a few months after the local election last year which gave Farage a good result but two new UKIP councillors had to resign due to putting their own foot in their mouth, I think says it all about all UKIP candidates Penderyn.

After months of trying, I finally got an interview with an UKIP representative. http://teastorybox.wordpress.com/2013/10/10/close-up-ukip/

Most enlightening. It would be really quite amusing if it were not actually true.   I loved the Farrage and smoking bit particularly. Is he a member of FOREST I wonder? I heard on the BBC this morning or was it yesterday that there are something like 10k Brits on the dole in Germany getting an average £23k in benefits. I know its the Daily Mail but this article did make me smile when you read the whinging that goes on about foreigners in Britain.. Thank you UKIP

Redflag wrote: 
Just a few months after the local election last year which gave Farage a good result but two new UKIP councillors had to resign due to putting their own foot in their mouth, I think says it all about all UKIP candidates Penderyn.

Yeah, I think they'll become victims of their own success. They'll have more candidates than ever before which will reveal the rather unpleasant underbelly which I think most of us suspect the party has done its best to hide at present.

I have a natural tendency to steer clear of any group whose only constant motivation is to be AGAINST things.

 
I avoid them like the Plague. Farage was a City of London banker and he was a Tory party member, I think, that says it all OW.:yeahthat:

UKIP councillor Gordon Gillick faces probe over claim he branded children in care 'takers' from society
 
From an article by Chris Havergal:-          
 
A dozen complaints have been lodged against Gordon Gillick  who represents Waldersey on Cambridgeshire County Council, over comments he reportedly made when councillors were visited by three looked after teenagers who had made a film about their experiences. The session was meant to brief members on their responsibilities as ‘corporate parents’ to protect children from abuse, but Gillick had interjected to ask the trio why they were “takers” from the system. He wanted to know when children in care would start giving back to society instead. A council spokesman confirmed an investigation was under way.

Peter Reeve, the UKIP group leader, said he had not been at the meeting but supported his colleague, adding: “As long as he’s being honest and transparent and saying what he believes, I’ve no problem with that. It may or may not be that I agree with him or that people find his views offensive, but I would rather a councillor is honest than cover up their beliefs because they are worried about it not being politically correct.”

UKIP is now the council’s third largest group, with 12 members, but it has faced controversy, with one member, Wisbech South’s Peter Lagoda, awaiting trial next year for alleged benefit fraud. He has pleaded not guilty. The party’s candidate in Arbury, Hugh Mennie, was fined after he admitted forging eight signatures on his nomination form.
 
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/UKIP-councillor-Gordon-Gillick-faces-probe-over-claim-he-branded-children-in-care-takers-from-society-20131127060500.htm#channel=f2cb5a9a45874b&channel_path=%2FNews%2FUKIP-councillor-Gordon-Gillick-faces-probe-over-claim-he-branded-children-in-care-takers-from-society-20131127060500.htm%3Ffb_xd_fragment%23xd_sig%3Df2388952226b7b%26&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge-news.co.uk

Leave the poor chap alone.

After all, he's probably only practising to be a Tory when he grows up...

I do sort of love the way, every time UKIP gets a chance to make any kind of statement, it always seems to be something like this makes them look - as I believe one of the commentators called them 'neanderthals'

Umm. It couldn't be due to biassed reporting. The Press are completely neutral as between Tory, Labour and UKIP.

oftenwrong wrote:Umm.  It couldn't be due to biassed reporting.  The Press are completely neutral as between Tory, Labour and UKIP.

The right wing press do not know who to support OW, on one hand they have the right wing Tories or the right wing Farages Ukip but just lets hope that common sense wins the day in May 2015.:yeahthat: 

Brussels seems to have interrupted the supply of electricity to the Farage household in darkest Surrey at this festive season. Quelle dommage!

Dan Fante wrote:Yeah, I think they'll become victims of their own success. They'll have more candidates than ever before which will reveal the rather unpleasant underbelly which I think most of us suspect the party has done its best to hide at present.

Dan Fante UKIP has always been the second hand Tory party, Farage is an ex Tory party member also EX-City B(W)anker and that says it all as far as I am concerned  :yeahthat:

What I can not understand is why everyone thinks UKIP will do well in the EU elections, because the people that vote UKIP want OUT of the EU and voting UKIP in the EU elections will not do that, the only way to bring us out of the EU would be UKIP to have a majority gov't in the H.O.C.

Or is it that Farage would use it as a bargaining tool against whatever gov't is in power in Westminister, I think Farage is not interested in the EU just what he can buy with the power he has in the EU Parliament so UK beware watch what you vote for.  

Redflag wrote:I think Farage is not interested in the EU just what he can buy with the power he has in the EU Parliament so UK beware watch what you vote for.  

Farage is completely without principle. All he cares about are the expenses he can screw out of us and the EU.

BTW Red, Merry Xmas!

Only David Cameron is worried about UKIP, as they are the most likely to dilute Tory voting patterns.

Which would appear to make Nigel almost a positive asset for the Labour Party. Time will tell, of course.

LWS wrote:Farage is completely without principle. All he cares about are the expenses he can screw out of us and the EU.

BTW Red, Merry Xmas!

That says it all LWS Farage may no longer be a Tory party member but he still has the Tory Ideology of VILE & NASTY. :yeahthat: 

Hope you had a nice Christmas LWS with my best wishes for a Happy & Tory free New Year

An open letter from Owen Jones to UKIP voters

Dear UKIP voter,

We've got a lot in common. Like three-quarters of you I wouldn't choose the EU as one of the key issues facing the country, even though I agree the British people should be given a vote on our membership. You think Westminster has become the preserve of career politicians, which is why I agree Parliament desperately needs more working class MPs.

Nearly 8 out of 10 of you want energy brought into public ownership, nearly three-quarters of you are right to back bringing rail back into public ownership. Like 84% of you, I believe the NHS should be “nationalised and run in the public sector”. When two-thirds of you back “a substantial increase” in the minimum wage, I'm with you: it would save money, boost demand in the economy, make work pay, and help stop bosses undercutting wages with cheaper labour, wherever it comes from.

In lots of ways, I'm in far more agreement with you than UKIP's leaders are. They want to introduce a flat tax, which would not only cut the taxes of the investment bankers that ex-commodities trader Nigel Farage used to hang out with, it would also mean that call centre workers would be in the same tax bracket as millionaires. They want to slash employers' NI contributions, handing bosses a £50 billion cheque while workers struggle. They want to cut two million public sector jobs and go even further than the Tories in privatising and dismantling our NHS. They want a bonfire of our remaining workers' rights, trashing legislation on redundancy pay, holidays and overtime.

For the whole letter:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/an-open-letter-from-owen-jones-to-ukip-voters-9061968.html

Thank you IVAN for putting Owen Jones letter on the forum, it just proves what I  have been saying for months Farage is just another nastier (if that is possible) version of the Tory party we could not expect anything else. Farage was brought up on Tory Ideology plus he is an ex City B(W)anker.

I think Owen Jones will make a good politician in about 5-10 years time he may even start a political party of his own he has at the moment The Peoples Assembly which is NON political. :yeahthat:

He's a very articulate chap, that Owen Jones - and usually without any of the rabble rousing hackneyed stuff we get from other parts of the media.

Thanks for sharing this piece

Ivan wrote:An open letter from Owen Jones to UKIP voters

I thought the whole thing was remarkably well thought out and it did what good politics should do and that is engage with those you want to convince. Farage is very glib and slippery as is his party. He needs to be allowed to speak and then questioned on what the real meaning of his policies are. They can be shown for what they are not.

However THIS is exactly what gives him credibility. He doesn't have to do anything but stand there and pretend to be the man of substance. "Addressing the protesters inside the hall, he said: “Why can’t you stay and have a reasonable political debate? Isn’t this kind of behaviour, and the refusal to engage in a democratic process, the very thing you are shouting against?" Let the man talk. He will do so given the opportunity and talk himself to oblivion.

Farage is not, IMO, nasty per se. He is worse. He is an opportunist. If you look at the article he has a go at Tommy Robinson (EDL) as jumping on the UKIP bandwagon which I found wonderfully ironic. His conversion to re-nationalising the railways for a start and support for the NHS which is exactly where Owen Jones nailed him.

Nigel Farage: Do ‘Question Time’ audiences need to be quite so hostile?

Incredible! Farage has been on the programme 26 times, yet he's trying to pretend that it's being “exploited by the hard left”.

Maybe if UKIP members such as himself, Paul Nuttall and Diane (“4 million Bulgarians on their way to Eastleigh”) James didn’t come out with so many lies and scare stories, they might get a more polite reception.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-do-question-time-audiences-need-to-be-quite-so-hostile-9054389.html

But hang on! Is Farage in any position to complain about hostile or impolite behaviour?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViPm0GUxw-M …

Today's Independent suggests that any alignment of UKIP with Socialists would likely call itself the National Socialist Party.

Crumbs!

I doubt W if Labour would allign itself with Ukip under ANY circumstances, because in no way shape or form is Ukip a socialist party they are more than likely to allign itself to the Tory party. :yeahthat: